If I would use polymorph on a bear to turn it into a snail or some other throwable creature, then put it into my pocket and, when the opportunity comes, throw it at an enemy, and mid throw stop concentraiting on the spell, would the enemy be hit by the now unpolymorphed bear and take impact damage?
No. Simple Physics: Conservation of energy means that energy is neither created or destroyed unless a spell says so.
Assume you turned a 400 lb bear into a 2 lb cat and threw the cat at 5 miles per hour towards a person. Total energy = 5 mph*2 lb = 10 mph lbs. It transforms into a bear half way, keeping the total energy of 10 mph lbs, but being 400 lbs, it is now travelling at 10/400 = 1/40th a mile per hour.
In this case the bear falls way short of the target because you did half way.
Worst case scenario you transform it just before it hits the target and the bear barely bumps the target. Of course, it is a good way to get a huge bear through a steel cage it could not fit.
If you read the "Bad Ideas" thread, this is on of the examples.
It is true that the laws of physics do not follow when in magic. But you are not allowed to just make up new rules of physics. Instead you must site an existing rule in the PHB. For example, a player can not simply state that "Fire burns metal". No. You need something in the rulebook to state that, otherwise it does not work. You certainly should not be randomly deciding to take a non-attack spell and declare it does a huge amount of damage because you MADE UP A NEW RULE OF PHYSICS THAT DOES NOT WORK IN THE REAL WORLD BUT YOU THINK IT SHOULD IN A MAGICAL WORLD.
Anyone that thinks something must 'slow' the bear down does not understand real world physics. The magic of transformation is what slows the bead down. Bear/snail does not have a set speed, there is no such thing as conservation of speed. The bear/snail has a set amount of momentum. That momentum is spread out among the mass. Increasing the mass of the bear slows it down, just as if someone were to put an empty pool on wheels and push it onto a road while it was raining. As the pool fills up, your initial push's energy is spread out among more mass, slowing the pool down.
Dropping a bear onto him would be more likely to work. But if the DM did not rule it was an improvised weapon (doing a measily 1d4) then it would be a tremendously hard attack roll. No proficiency (the bear is not a simple or martial weapon), disadvantage for trying to do it indirectly,, no dex or strength to hit or damage are the minimum things that I would require. And probably give the victim a save.
I think the more important question is how much of a bonus are you going to get on an intimidation check, or can you inspire the fear condition, by making a BEAR APPEAR OUT OF NOWHERE!
Make that enemy roll a perception check to see the snail flying, if they fail they are surprised! SURPRISE BEAR!
Actually, a favored technique of mine is to polymorph a large predator into a mouse and save it so I can SLAM it onto the ground at an enemies feet. The mouse take 1d4 damage, and bounces back up as a very angry saber-toothed tiger.
This is D&D not a physics exam. When physics would be plainly obvious fine, but when you have to start running math, energy principles and blah blah - sod that. Rule of Cool, **** it. Why not? It's a game not a classroom.
Want to burn a 4th level slot to attempt a possible 1 or 2 d6, max, damage later if an enemy fails the dex save to get out the way? Especially since it's a max of an hour, concentration and that snail is very fragile (one trip and OOPS)? Sure. I mean a Druid can just conjure 4 bears instantly that obey them with a 3rd level spell. So, it's not like that they're doing is OP or anything - if anything it's sub-optimal. It's just funny though.
Frankly it makes more sense than the crit rules do (superhuman levels of strength, dexterity and co-ordination, decades of practiced skill, yet always have a 5% chance to miss even if the target was just standing there unarmoured?)
It's a game. Theres a lot of mechanics that do not match reality. Let them have fun. In a game where you can become dragons, destroy towns with a wave of a hand and rewrite reality with a thought, I'm fairly certain throwing a bear ain't a big deal.
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Actually, a favored technique of mine is to polymorph a large predator into a mouse and save it so I can SLAM it onto the ground at an enemies feet. The mouse take 1d4 damage, and bounces back up as a very angry saber-toothed tiger.
You need to go the next step: Find an artificer and make a mouse cannon so you can use that technique at better range.. possible even strategically!
You can throw an “improvised weapon” 60 ft. Who’s that tiger gonna go after first, the creature right in front of it, or me who is 60 feet away?
I do like that mouse launcher though. Blundermouse? Mouseterbus? Still working on the name.
Actually, a favored technique of mine is to polymorph a large predator into a mouse and save it so I can SLAM it onto the ground at an enemies feet. The mouse take 1d4 damage, and bounces back up as a very angry saber-toothed tiger.
You need to go the next step: Find an artificer and make a mouse cannon so you can use that technique at better range.. possible even strategically!
You can throw an “improvised weapon” 60 ft. Who’s that tiger gonna go after first, the creature right in front of it, or me who is 60 feet away?
I do like that mouse launcher though. Blundermouse? Mouseterbus? Still working on the name.
Cat launcher?
Anyway, D&D 5e doesn't have set rules for thrown object damage based on size. All that would be up to DM.
You can throw an “improvised weapon” 60 ft. Who’s that tiger gonna go after first, the creature right in front of it, or me who is 60 feet away?
Most likely, it would want to run as fast as possible as far away as possible. Animals tend not to want to fight unless they have a really good reason to or are hunting prey they feel they can kill and eat easily (i.e. not a real fight). I suspect a tiger launched out of any sort of weapon and de-polymorphed would start by trying to run instead of fight.
You can throw an “improvised weapon” 60 ft. Who’s that tiger gonna go after first, the creature right in front of it, or me who is 60 feet away?
Most likely, it would want to run as fast as possible as far away as possible. Animals tend not to want to fight unless they have a really good reason to or are hunting prey they feel they can kill and eat easily (i.e. not a real fight). I suspect a tiger launched out of any sort of weapon and de-polymorphed would start by trying to run instead of fight.
You have obviously never been catbombed. I can tell you from personal experience that, at least with house cats, if you piss one off and throw it at someone it will immediately claw and bite the first thing it hits. I still have faint scars and that was more than 20 years ago. If a prehistoric apex predator turns tail and runs under the same conditions I would be shocked.
You can throw an “improvised weapon” 60 ft. Who’s that tiger gonna go after first, the creature right in front of it, or me who is 60 feet away?
Most likely, it would want to run as fast as possible as far away as possible. Animals tend not to want to fight unless they have a really good reason to or are hunting prey they feel they can kill and eat easily (i.e. not a real fight). I suspect a tiger launched out of any sort of weapon and de-polymorphed would start by trying to run instead of fight.
You have obviously never been catbombed. I can tell you from personal experience that, at least with house cats, if you piss one off and throw it at someone it will immediately claw and bite the first thing it hits. I still have faint scars and that was more than 20 years ago. If a prehistoric apex predator turns tail and runs under the same conditions I would be shocked.
You are definitely right Sposta. If you care about someone's health, do not throw a cat at them.
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You have obviously never been catbombed. I can tell you from personal experience that, at least with house cats, if you piss one off and throw it at someone it will immediately claw and bite the first thing it hits. I still have faint scars and that was more than 20 years ago. If a prehistoric apex predator turns tail and runs under the same conditions I would be shocked.
You are definitely right Sposta. If you care about someone's health, do not throw a cat at them.
It is not especially good for the cat, either.... seriously, in real life, do not do these things....
One would think that should go without saying, but my friend thought it was funny at the time since he wasn’t the one getting scratched up. 🙄
Hello together, i have a question.
If I would use polymorph on a bear to turn it into a snail or some other throwable creature, then put it into my pocket and, when the opportunity comes, throw it at an enemy, and mid throw stop concentraiting on the spell, would the enemy be hit by the now unpolymorphed bear and take impact damage?
No. Simple Physics: Conservation of energy means that energy is neither created or destroyed unless a spell says so.
Assume you turned a 400 lb bear into a 2 lb cat and threw the cat at 5 miles per hour towards a person. Total energy = 5 mph*2 lb = 10 mph lbs. It transforms into a bear half way, keeping the total energy of 10 mph lbs, but being 400 lbs, it is now travelling at 10/400 = 1/40th a mile per hour.
In this case the bear falls way short of the target because you did half way.
Worst case scenario you transform it just before it hits the target and the bear barely bumps the target. Of course, it is a good way to get a huge bear through a steel cage it could not fit.
It could work if you dropped it on the creature.
When the DM smiles, it is already to late.
Just for safety's sake, instead of throwing it directly at someone, toss it about 10 feet above their head and let that bear drop on them.
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If you read the "Bad Ideas" thread, this is on of the examples.
Dropping a bear onto him would be more likely to work. But if the DM did not rule it was an improvised weapon (doing a measily 1d4) then it would be a tremendously hard attack roll. No proficiency (the bear is not a simple or martial weapon), disadvantage for trying to do it indirectly,, no dex or strength to hit or damage are the minimum things that I would require. And probably give the victim a save.
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InsiderI think the more important question is how much of a bonus are you going to get on an intimidation check, or can you inspire the fear condition, by making a BEAR APPEAR OUT OF NOWHERE!
Make that enemy roll a perception check to see the snail flying, if they fail they are surprised! SURPRISE BEAR!
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Actually, a favored technique of mine is to polymorph a large predator into a mouse and save it so I can SLAM it onto the ground at an enemies feet. The mouse take 1d4 damage, and bounces back up as a very angry saber-toothed tiger.
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This is D&D not a physics exam. When physics would be plainly obvious fine, but when you have to start running math, energy principles and blah blah - sod that. Rule of Cool, **** it. Why not? It's a game not a classroom.
Want to burn a 4th level slot to attempt a possible 1 or 2 d6, max, damage later if an enemy fails the dex save to get out the way? Especially since it's a max of an hour, concentration and that snail is very fragile (one trip and OOPS)? Sure. I mean a Druid can just conjure 4 bears instantly that obey them with a 3rd level spell. So, it's not like that they're doing is OP or anything - if anything it's sub-optimal. It's just funny though.
Frankly it makes more sense than the crit rules do (superhuman levels of strength, dexterity and co-ordination, decades of practiced skill, yet always have a 5% chance to miss even if the target was just standing there unarmoured?)
It's a game. Theres a lot of mechanics that do not match reality. Let them have fun. In a game where you can become dragons, destroy towns with a wave of a hand and rewrite reality with a thought, I'm fairly certain throwing a bear ain't a big deal.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
You can throw an “improvised weapon” 60 ft. Who’s that tiger gonna go after first, the creature right in front of it, or me who is 60 feet away?
I do like that mouse launcher though. Blundermouse? Mouseterbus? Still working on the name.
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Cat launcher?
Anyway, D&D 5e doesn't have set rules for thrown object damage based on size. All that would be up to DM.
Most likely, it would want to run as fast as possible as far away as possible. Animals tend not to want to fight unless they have a really good reason to or are hunting prey they feel they can kill and eat easily (i.e. not a real fight). I suspect a tiger launched out of any sort of weapon and de-polymorphed would start by trying to run instead of fight.
You have obviously never been catbombed. I can tell you from personal experience that, at least with house cats, if you piss one off and throw it at someone it will immediately claw and bite the first thing it hits. I still have faint scars and that was more than 20 years ago. If a prehistoric apex predator turns tail and runs under the same conditions I would be shocked.
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Hello together,
thanks for the many replies. I got a pretty good idea on how it should work out now.
It was really fun reading all the nice messages :D.
I wish you all a very nice day and stay healthy.
You are definitely right Sposta. If you care about someone's health, do not throw a cat at them.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
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One would think that should go without saying, but my friend thought it was funny at the time since he wasn’t the one getting scratched up. 🙄
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