So i got this idea for a build today where you go 5 levels of barbarian (preferably totem as it fits the theme) 6 levels of Moon druid as an goblin who has seen a rhinoceros one or more times (and developed an obsession over them, as shown by your barbarian abillities), where in combat you move 20 feet towards the enemy, disengaging with your bonus action using evasive rhino manuvers (nimble doge) if nessesary and then making two gore attacks with your attack action that should both theoretically benefit from the charge feature and thus deal 4d8 + 5 damage each, potentially also using reckless attack since you are so Easy to hit with your 11 ac.
So, i ask the mathy People out there, how does this DPS compare to the typical 11th level fighter with their extra attacks and extra attacks and whatnot, better or worse? Is this even viable or is it too unreliable, needing you to both not take too much damage, use a limited resource and whatnot?
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
It would work, but you’d have to be 11th level to do it and you wouldn’t be able to do it very often. Plus you wouldn’t last for a complete combat before being out of Wild Shapes so you’d need a back up strategy for when you couldn’t do that.
The rider on the charge seems to be written once per turn -- it does not say "when you hit with a gore attack..." but rather says you can add the damage if you meet the conditions of movement and successful attack.
With that being said, you could probably output more damage by going straight moon druid, taking an elemental form, and concentrating on... just about any concentration damage spell-- you'd have 6th level slots by then.
The rider on the charge seems to be written once per turn -- it does not say "when you hit with a gore attack..." but rather says you can add the damage if you meet the conditions of movement and successful attack.
With that being said, you could probably output more damage by going straight moon druid, taking an elemental form, and concentrating on... just about any concentration damage spell-- you'd have 6th level slots by then.
The first gore attack occurs on the same turn as i move 20 feet straight towards the opponent, the second gore attack also occurs on the same turn as i moved 20 feet straight towards my opponent, thus both Will benefit, no once-per-turn limit is implied
Problem with concentration spells and elemental Wild shape is they use up far more resources than just Good ol Wild shape and rage, and is also not a very fun combination
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
The rider on the charge seems to be written once per turn -- it does not say "when you hit with a gore attack..." but rather says you can add the damage if you meet the conditions of movement and successful attack.
With that being said, you could probably output more damage by going straight moon druid, taking an elemental form, and concentrating on... just about any concentration damage spell-- you'd have 6th level slots by then.
The first gore attack occurs on the same turn as i move 20 feet straight towards the opponent, the second gore attack also occurs on the same turn as i moved 20 feet straight towards my opponent, thus both Will benefit, no once-per-turn limit is implied
Problem with concentration spells and elemental Wild shape is they use up far more resources than just Good ol Wild shape and rage, and is also not a very fun combination
That is certainly not the interpretation I would use -- and this is in the realm of interpretation here, so don't be surprised if others don't rule like you do. First, Rhino's don't have multiattack, so the writers could reasonably assume that a rhino only makes one gore attack. Second, as I already said, features that occur each time a condition is met use phrasing like "when" or "each time." Third, why is it ok to move 20' toward the target only once and fulfill the condition from that movement twice? If you only have to meet each condition once in order to gain the benefit more than once, then why not add as many d8s as you like?
Problem with ditching 5 levels of druid for barbarian is that you get far less druid resources to begin with. Try a giant snapping turtle and a spell then. By the way, rage is a resource also. Multiclassing out of moon druid tends to just slow the progression of wildshape improvements in a way that generally greatly reduces their effectiveness as a druid -- usually in the level range where moon druid is lagging anyway. You are taking a thing that was bad at level 6 and dragging that along for marginal improvements for another 4 levels. Then finally you get to the thing that situationally doubles its damage when you could have easily done that just by taking incremental improvements along the way.
You want to compare to Fighters? at 11th level they are making 3 attacks with +9 to hit (that is +2 over rhino -- that is worth a ton of damage by itself), dealing 2d6+5 each (that is 36 average -- one point lower than the correct reading of charge and 10 points lower than yours and completely resource free -- though you did leave out rage bonus damage). Considering the fighter hits more often, you're probably looking at a ~3 point damage difference between the rhino and the fighter, depending on the AC of the target. Another thing to consider is that a fighter will have more consistent damage since it gets 3 attempts per turn while the raging rhino only gets 2. Using their resource, they could double damage. All of this is before you even consider feats or subclass or fighting style. They also have a higher AC than you, even with your unarmored defense (10 +(-1) + 2 isn't a very high AC). They also get to choose how to move without consideration of their damage.
As WolfOfTheBees stated above, a rhino only gets one attack. Not sure where the two attacks are coming from.
Extra Attack Feat of the Barbarian. There is not really something against it, as the Druid wild form states, that you can use class features, your form might be able to apply.
As WolfOfTheBees stated above, a rhino only gets one attack. Not sure where the two attacks are coming from.
Extra Attack Feat of the Barbarian. There is not really something against it, as the Druid wild form states, that you can use class features, your form might be able to apply.
But each charge would require 20 feet of movement.
20 feet towards target, charge attack, 20 away from target, 20 feet towards target, charge attack. 60 feet total movement.
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As WolfOfTheBees stated above, a rhino only gets one attack. Not sure where the two attacks are coming from.
Extra Attack Feat of the Barbarian. There is not really something against it, as the Druid wild form states, that you can use class features, your form might be able to apply.
But each charge would require 20 feet of movement.
20 feet towards target, charge attack, 20 away from target, 20 feet towards target, charge attack. 60 feet total movement.
That is the discussion, OP interprets the Rhinos special ability, that each attack after a 20 ft. charge gets the bonus. If not, you only need to move 20 ft. for the first charge, and then again 20 ft. in a circle for the second charge. I am quite sure, that the special ability of the Rhino is intended for only one attack, but the wording is not so clear on this one.
You'll be 11 and fighting appropriate level CR things and wild shape into a CR 2 animal. Really bad idea. You'll get smoked quick. Much better to go straight druid and have the elemental shapes at 11 that a combo like that. Personally I'd never multi a Druid as their capstone is arguably the best in game.
A level 11 fighter will have 3 attacks without action surge and if that character is built for damage it'll be using 2h GWM. Rhino will be a +7 to hit whereas the fighter will be easily +10 (with a +1 sword by level 11 would be easily attainable). So you'll have 3 attacks at +5 with gwm that will have 2d6+16 damage per hit instead of 2d8+5 once. Also, the fighter should about triple the HP of the rhino as well.
At some point you have to stop thinking mathy game mech and apply common sense.
The attack gets bonus from the momentum of the run and carries that into the strike. On impact the momentum adds to the force of the hit, which is then dissipated into the target. The second hit won't get bonus because all the momentum has gone.
It works the same in real life. We learn this fact naturally even as children (even if we don't specifically understand why running first makes it hurt more). It's taught to us in school. It's why things with antlers, tusks and horns that face forward run at you first if they can. It's why wrestlers run up to do a clothesline. It's why you jump further when you run first, why stepping into a locked door accidentally (damn you glass doors!) doesn't hurt as much as running into it. It's basic kinetic transference
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As WolfOfTheBees stated above, a rhino only gets one attack. Not sure where the two attacks are coming from.
Extra Attack Feat of the Barbarian. There is not really something against it, as the Druid wild form states, that you can use class features, your form might be able to apply.
But each charge would require 20 feet of movement.
20 feet towards target, charge attack, 20 away from target, 20 feet towards target, charge attack. 60 feet total movement.
If not, you only need to move 20 ft. for the first charge, and then again 20 ft. in a circle for the second charge.
The ability states straight, not circle.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
If you are allowing two uses in one turn, you could charge enemy A, turn and charge enemy B, using all 40 feet of your movement and incurring an attack of opportunity to get both. There is no chance that I'd allow movement to double-count though. 20' of movement gets you one charge.
huh, turns out you do not retain your own proficency bonus while in wild shape, still since the armor class of an rhino is 11 even pretty low rolls will still hit, so there is a lot more incentive to use reckless attack that will more than make up for the slight difference in attack bonus
The rider on the charge seems to be written once per turn -- it does not say "when you hit with a gore attack..." but rather says you can add the damage if you meet the conditions of movement and successful attack.
With that being said, you could probably output more damage by going straight moon druid, taking an elemental form, and concentrating on... just about any concentration damage spell-- you'd have 6th level slots by then.
The first gore attack occurs on the same turn as i move 20 feet straight towards the opponent, the second gore attack also occurs on the same turn as i moved 20 feet straight towards my opponent, thus both Will benefit, no once-per-turn limit is implied
Problem with concentration spells and elemental Wild shape is they use up far more resources than just Good ol Wild shape and rage, and is also not a very fun combination
That is certainly not the interpretation I would use -- and this is in the realm of interpretation here, so don't be surprised if others don't rule like you do. First, Rhino's don't have multiattack, so the writers could reasonably assume that a rhino only makes one gore attack. Second, as I already said, features that occur each time a condition is met use phrasing like "when" or "each time." Third, why is it ok to move 20' toward the target only once and fulfill the condition from that movement twice? If you only have to meet each condition once in order to gain the benefit more than once, then why not add as many d8s as you like?
me forcing an rule into an context the designers did not anticipate does not make my interpretations of the rules wrong, just a bit dastardly and sinister. Secondly meeting the movement criteria multiple times would not increase the damage further. The abillity just says, if this thing occurs, check if this other thing has occurred first, if so do this. The thing occurs twice, and the other thing has already happened previously in the turn in both instances correct? so then that means that both gain the benefit. Just becuase it does not follow some previously undefined format does not change how the feature works
At some point you have to stop thinking mathy game mech and apply common sense.
The attack gets bonus from the momentum of the run and carries that into the strike. On impact the momentum adds to the force of the hit, which is then dissipated into the target. The second hit won't get bonus because all the momentum has gone.
It works the same in real life. We learn this fact naturally even as children (even if we don't specifically understand why running first makes it hurt more). It's taught to us in school. It's why things with antlers, tusks and horns that face forward run at you first if they can. It's why wrestlers run up to do a clothesline. It's why you jump further when you run first, why stepping into a locked door accidentally (damn you glass doors!) doesn't hurt as much as running into it. It's basic kinetic transference
yes, applying real world logic to this situation would logically lead to this situation, however you could argue that the first gore attack knocks the victim back slightly, not enough for it to have an mechanical impact but enough for the second gore attack to still benefit from some of that momentum, even if some of it will be absorbed by the victim and some slowing down will occur before the second strike there can still probably be some momentum going in, even if it is not nearly enough to cause the same amount of damage
overall this character might be too inefficient at 11th level to be considered any good (even if making an rhino-obseessed goblin whose totem animal is a rhino is still a fun idea i wanna try out and knocking people prone is always fun), but hey there are always other monsters, shurely at some point monsters designed only to make a single attack per turn will be so boosted by extra that they begin to outmatch proper martial classes in damage?
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
huh, turns out you do not retain your own proficency bonus while in wild shape, still since the armor class of an rhino is 11 even pretty low rolls will still hit, so there is a lot more incentive to use reckless attack that will more than make up for the slight difference in attack bonus
That is certainly not the interpretation I would use -- and this is in the realm of interpretation here, so don't be surprised if others don't rule like you do. First, Rhino's don't have multiattack, so the writers could reasonably assume that a rhino only makes one gore attack. Second, as I already said, features that occur each time a condition is met use phrasing like "when" or "each time." Third, why is it ok to move 20' toward the target only once and fulfill the condition from that movement twice? If you only have to meet each condition once in order to gain the benefit more than once, then why not add as many d8s as you like?
me forcing an rule into an context the designers did not anticipate does not make my interpretations of the rules wrong, just a bit dastardly and sinister. Secondly meeting the movement criteria multiple times would not increase the damage further. The abillity just says, if this thing occurs, check if this other thing has occurred first, if so do this. The thing occurs twice, and the other thing has already happened previously in the turn in both instances correct? so then that means that both gain the benefit. Just becuase it does not follow some previously undefined format does not change how the feature works
The feature says: If A and then B then C. You are saying "A occurs once and B occurs twice, so I get C twice." That is not the interpretation most people would make for "If A is true and B is true, then I get a result" and your interpretation is not different from "A and B both occurred so I can have as much C as I want."
If you really still insist on being a pedant on it, the feature says "If A then B, then C." If you do A then B then B, then you have still only met the required condition of "A then B" once, the second attack was immediately preceded by the first and was therefore "B then B" and not "A then B."
huh, turns out you do not retain your own proficency bonus while in wild shape, still since the armor class of an rhino is 11 even pretty low rolls will still hit, so there is a lot more incentive to use reckless attack that will more than make up for the slight difference in attack bonus
That is certainly not the interpretation I would use -- and this is in the realm of interpretation here, so don't be surprised if others don't rule like you do. First, Rhino's don't have multiattack, so the writers could reasonably assume that a rhino only makes one gore attack. Second, as I already said, features that occur each time a condition is met use phrasing like "when" or "each time." Third, why is it ok to move 20' toward the target only once and fulfill the condition from that movement twice? If you only have to meet each condition once in order to gain the benefit more than once, then why not add as many d8s as you like?
me forcing an rule into an context the designers did not anticipate does not make my interpretations of the rules wrong, just a bit dastardly and sinister. Secondly meeting the movement criteria multiple times would not increase the damage further. The abillity just says, if this thing occurs, check if this other thing has occurred first, if so do this. The thing occurs twice, and the other thing has already happened previously in the turn in both instances correct? so then that means that both gain the benefit. Just becuase it does not follow some previously undefined format does not change how the feature works
The feature says: If A and then B then C. You are saying "A occurs once and B occurs twice, so I get C twice." That is not the interpretation most people would make for "If A is true and B is true, then I get a result" and your interpretation is not different from "A and B both occurred so I can have as much C as I want."
If you really still insist on being a pedant on it, the feature says "If A then B, then C." If you do A then B then B, then you have still only met the required condition of "A then B" once, the second attack was immediately preceded by the first and was therefore "B then B" and not "A then B."
That was a bad example, but each time A occurs, it Will check for B, me benefitting from charge does not Change the fact that i moved 20 ft in a straight line towards the Target in the same turn, becuase the value for B remains the same, i still moved at least 20 feet in a straight line towards the Target, B can Only be a boolean
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
You can't claim boolean logic then say "two trues is double true."
Also, in case you can't understand my argument, A was the movement and B was the attack... (I always get surprised when people claim superior understanding of the rules who then also can't follow arguments about those rules)
Anyway, you are certainly free to interpret the rule your way, but that is not the way that I and many other DM's would interpret it, especially as Cybermind said, because it is a charge that implies you're using the movement to help with the attack. The rule says "a gore attack." You interpret that to mean "each" and I interpret it to mean "any."
If you are allowing two uses in one turn, you could charge enemy A, turn and charge enemy B, using all 40 feet of your movement and incurring an attack of opportunity to get both. There is no chance that I'd allow movement to double-count though. 20' of movement gets you one charge.
Absolutely.
The conditions for charge are moving 20 feet andthen successfully attacking with Gore. It's loop(If A&B then C), not (If A and loop(if B then C)). It's very clear that the entire thing is a singular conditional statement.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
You can't claim boolean logic then say "two trues is double true."
Also, in case you can't understand my argument, A was the movement and B was the attack... (I always get surprised when people claim superior understanding of the rules who then also can't follow arguments about those rules)
Anyway, you are certainly free to interpret the rule your way, but that is not the way that I and many other DM's would interpret it, especially as Cybermind said, because it is a charge that implies you're using the movement to help with the attack. The rule says "a gore attack." You interpret that to mean "each" and I interpret it to mean "any."
You are gonna have to elaborate on what exactly you mean with "two trues is double true", where it would occur in my arguments and in what context "double true" makes sense
Switching the meaning of A and B was needlessly confusing and perhaps i should have payed more attention to that.... yeah that is my bad
(As for the parethesies, are you talking about human beings in general or me specifically? I made no claim about any individuals abillity to interpret the rules, i have merely presented my interpretation)
And the trait is also not exactly something that makes sense in general, there is no requirement for the charge to end next to the target or for the gore attack to happen immedeatly after you stop moving. While say 40 ish feet away from Target X, you could charge 20 feet, then do any of the following:
-zigzag for the rest of your travel to Target X
-come to a complete stop, attack Target Y instead, then immedeatly trigger an trap instantly teleporting you next to Target X
- creature Z uses an readied action for an effect that yeets you the remaining 20 feet
-begin to dig the remainder of the path there using a burrow speed
-move all the way to X, turn 180 degrees and move 5 feet back, then moves 5 feet towards it again, and repeats this as many times as they can within the limits of their movement speed
And in all of these instances when they finally attack Target X, they should still benefit from charge RAW despite any momentum of that initial 20 ft stride being long gone, of Course Most of these would be improbable occurances in normal rhinos without outside influence or Wild shape, but these things can happen. This tangent has done little to my actiual point, almost nothing in fact, but it was fun to write...
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
The rule says "a gore attack." You interpret that to mean "each" and I interpret it to mean "any." Anyway, you are certainly free to interpret the rule your way, but that is not the way that I and many other DM's would interpret it.
So i got this idea for a build today where you go 5 levels of barbarian (preferably totem as it fits the theme) 6 levels of Moon druid as an goblin who has seen a rhinoceros one or more times (and developed an obsession over them, as shown by your barbarian abillities), where in combat you move 20 feet towards the enemy, disengaging with your bonus action using evasive rhino manuvers (nimble doge) if nessesary and then making two gore attacks with your attack action that should both theoretically benefit from the charge feature and thus deal 4d8 + 5 damage each, potentially also using reckless attack since you are so Easy to hit with your 11 ac.
So, i ask the mathy People out there, how does this DPS compare to the typical 11th level fighter with their extra attacks and extra attacks and whatnot, better or worse? Is this even viable or is it too unreliable, needing you to both not take too much damage, use a limited resource and whatnot?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
It would work, but you’d have to be 11th level to do it and you wouldn’t be able to do it very often. Plus you wouldn’t last for a complete combat before being out of Wild Shapes so you’d need a back up strategy for when you couldn’t do that.
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The rider on the charge seems to be written once per turn -- it does not say "when you hit with a gore attack..." but rather says you can add the damage if you meet the conditions of movement and successful attack.
With that being said, you could probably output more damage by going straight moon druid, taking an elemental form, and concentrating on... just about any concentration damage spell-- you'd have 6th level slots by then.
The first gore attack occurs on the same turn as i move 20 feet straight towards the opponent, the second gore attack also occurs on the same turn as i moved 20 feet straight towards my opponent, thus both Will benefit, no once-per-turn limit is implied
Problem with concentration spells and elemental Wild shape is they use up far more resources than just Good ol Wild shape and rage, and is also not a very fun combination
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
That is certainly not the interpretation I would use -- and this is in the realm of interpretation here, so don't be surprised if others don't rule like you do. First, Rhino's don't have multiattack, so the writers could reasonably assume that a rhino only makes one gore attack. Second, as I already said, features that occur each time a condition is met use phrasing like "when" or "each time." Third, why is it ok to move 20' toward the target only once and fulfill the condition from that movement twice? If you only have to meet each condition once in order to gain the benefit more than once, then why not add as many d8s as you like?
Problem with ditching 5 levels of druid for barbarian is that you get far less druid resources to begin with. Try a giant snapping turtle and a spell then. By the way, rage is a resource also. Multiclassing out of moon druid tends to just slow the progression of wildshape improvements in a way that generally greatly reduces their effectiveness as a druid -- usually in the level range where moon druid is lagging anyway. You are taking a thing that was bad at level 6 and dragging that along for marginal improvements for another 4 levels. Then finally you get to the thing that situationally doubles its damage when you could have easily done that just by taking incremental improvements along the way.
You want to compare to Fighters? at 11th level they are making 3 attacks with +9 to hit (that is +2 over rhino -- that is worth a ton of damage by itself), dealing 2d6+5 each (that is 36 average -- one point lower than the correct reading of charge and 10 points lower than yours and completely resource free -- though you did leave out rage bonus damage). Considering the fighter hits more often, you're probably looking at a ~3 point damage difference between the rhino and the fighter, depending on the AC of the target. Another thing to consider is that a fighter will have more consistent damage since it gets 3 attempts per turn while the raging rhino only gets 2. Using their resource, they could double damage. All of this is before you even consider feats or subclass or fighting style. They also have a higher AC than you, even with your unarmored defense (10 +(-1) + 2 isn't a very high AC). They also get to choose how to move without consideration of their damage.
As WolfOfTheBees stated above, a rhino only gets one attack. Not sure where the two attacks are coming from.
Extra Attack Feat of the Barbarian. There is not really something against it, as the Druid wild form states, that you can use class features, your form might be able to apply.
But each charge would require 20 feet of movement.
20 feet towards target, charge attack, 20 away from target, 20 feet towards target, charge attack. 60 feet total movement.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
That is the discussion, OP interprets the Rhinos special ability, that each attack after a 20 ft. charge gets the bonus. If not, you only need to move 20 ft. for the first charge, and then again 20 ft. in a circle for the second charge. I am quite sure, that the special ability of the Rhino is intended for only one attack, but the wording is not so clear on this one.
Work? Yes!
Good idea? No!
You'll be 11 and fighting appropriate level CR things and wild shape into a CR 2 animal. Really bad idea. You'll get smoked quick. Much better to go straight druid and have the elemental shapes at 11 that a combo like that. Personally I'd never multi a Druid as their capstone is arguably the best in game.
A level 11 fighter will have 3 attacks without action surge and if that character is built for damage it'll be using 2h GWM. Rhino will be a +7 to hit whereas the fighter will be easily +10 (with a +1 sword by level 11 would be easily attainable). So you'll have 3 attacks at +5 with gwm that will have 2d6+16 damage per hit instead of 2d8+5 once. Also, the fighter should about triple the HP of the rhino as well.
Neat idea, but in practice it won't pan out.
At some point you have to stop thinking mathy game mech and apply common sense.
The attack gets bonus from the momentum of the run and carries that into the strike. On impact the momentum adds to the force of the hit, which is then dissipated into the target. The second hit won't get bonus because all the momentum has gone.
It works the same in real life. We learn this fact naturally even as children (even if we don't specifically understand why running first makes it hurt more). It's taught to us in school. It's why things with antlers, tusks and horns that face forward run at you first if they can. It's why wrestlers run up to do a clothesline. It's why you jump further when you run first, why stepping into a locked door accidentally (damn you glass doors!) doesn't hurt as much as running into it. It's basic kinetic transference
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The ability states straight, not circle.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
If you are allowing two uses in one turn, you could charge enemy A, turn and charge enemy B, using all 40 feet of your movement and incurring an attack of opportunity to get both. There is no chance that I'd allow movement to double-count though. 20' of movement gets you one charge.
huh, turns out you do not retain your own proficency bonus while in wild shape, still since the armor class of an rhino is 11 even pretty low rolls will still hit, so there is a lot more incentive to use reckless attack that will more than make up for the slight difference in attack bonus
me forcing an rule into an context the designers did not anticipate does not make my interpretations of the rules wrong, just a bit dastardly and sinister. Secondly meeting the movement criteria multiple times would not increase the damage further. The abillity just says, if this thing occurs, check if this other thing has occurred first, if so do this. The thing occurs twice, and the other thing has already happened previously in the turn in both instances correct? so then that means that both gain the benefit. Just becuase it does not follow some previously undefined format does not change how the feature works
yes, applying real world logic to this situation would logically lead to this situation, however you could argue that the first gore attack knocks the victim back slightly, not enough for it to have an mechanical impact but enough for the second gore attack to still benefit from some of that momentum, even if some of it will be absorbed by the victim and some slowing down will occur before the second strike there can still probably be some momentum going in, even if it is not nearly enough to cause the same amount of damage
overall this character might be too inefficient at 11th level to be considered any good (even if making an rhino-obseessed goblin whose totem animal is a rhino is still a fun idea i wanna try out and knocking people prone is always fun), but hey there are always other monsters, shurely at some point monsters designed only to make a single attack per turn will be so boosted by extra that they begin to outmatch proper martial classes in damage?
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
The feature says: If A and then B then C. You are saying "A occurs once and B occurs twice, so I get C twice." That is not the interpretation most people would make for "If A is true and B is true, then I get a result" and your interpretation is not different from "A and B both occurred so I can have as much C as I want."
If you really still insist on being a pedant on it, the feature says "If A then B, then C." If you do A then B then B, then you have still only met the required condition of "A then B" once, the second attack was immediately preceded by the first and was therefore "B then B" and not "A then B."
That was a bad example, but each time A occurs, it Will check for B, me benefitting from charge does not Change the fact that i moved 20 ft in a straight line towards the Target in the same turn, becuase the value for B remains the same, i still moved at least 20 feet in a straight line towards the Target, B can Only be a boolean
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
You can't claim boolean logic then say "two trues is double true."
Also, in case you can't understand my argument, A was the movement and B was the attack... (I always get surprised when people claim superior understanding of the rules who then also can't follow arguments about those rules)
Anyway, you are certainly free to interpret the rule your way, but that is not the way that I and many other DM's would interpret it, especially as Cybermind said, because it is a charge that implies you're using the movement to help with the attack. The rule says "a gore attack." You interpret that to mean "each" and I interpret it to mean "any."
Absolutely.
The conditions for charge are moving 20 feet and then successfully attacking with Gore. It's loop(If A&B then C), not (If A and loop(if B then C)). It's very clear that the entire thing is a singular conditional statement.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
You are gonna have to elaborate on what exactly you mean with "two trues is double true", where it would occur in my arguments and in what context "double true" makes sense
Switching the meaning of A and B was needlessly confusing and perhaps i should have payed more attention to that.... yeah that is my bad
(As for the parethesies, are you talking about human beings in general or me specifically? I made no claim about any individuals abillity to interpret the rules, i have merely presented my interpretation)
And the trait is also not exactly something that makes sense in general, there is no requirement for the charge to end next to the target or for the gore attack to happen immedeatly after you stop moving. While say 40 ish feet away from Target X, you could charge 20 feet, then do any of the following:
-zigzag for the rest of your travel to Target X
-come to a complete stop, attack Target Y instead, then immedeatly trigger an trap instantly teleporting you next to Target X
- creature Z uses an readied action for an effect that yeets you the remaining 20 feet
-begin to dig the remainder of the path there using a burrow speed
-move all the way to X, turn 180 degrees and move 5 feet back, then moves 5 feet towards it again, and repeats this as many times as they can within the limits of their movement speed
And in all of these instances when they finally attack Target X, they should still benefit from charge RAW despite any momentum of that initial 20 ft stride being long gone, of Course Most of these would be improbable occurances in normal rhinos without outside influence or Wild shape, but these things can happen. This tangent has done little to my actiual point, almost nothing in fact, but it was fun to write...
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
The rule says "a gore attack." You interpret that to mean "each" and I interpret it to mean "any." Anyway, you are certainly free to interpret the rule your way, but that is not the way that I and many other DM's would interpret it.