this might be a seldom asked question but it came up by one of my players who is looking to add a new Tool Proficiency to his character. A question came up after reading the Resources and Complication sections.
Resources. Receiving training in a language or tool typically takes at least ten workweeks, but this time is reduced by a number of workweeks equal to the character’s Intelligence modifier (an Intelligence penalty doesn’t increase the time needed). Training costs 25 gp per workweek.
Complications. Complications that arise while training typically involve the teacher. Every ten workweeks spent in training brings a 10 percent chance of a complication, examples of which are on the Training Complications table.
The resources mentions least amount of workweek is 10 (minus Int mod) and the Complications mentioned the percentage increases 10 per ten workweeks spent training. What I don't see is a qualifier or table indicating at least to the basics what workweek average time spent on a language or tool.
I'll probably just keep everything at a 10 workweek limit but something like a table mentioned above would have been helpful to properly implement the complications rule but I'm curious to see what other people have done with this Downtime.
this might be a seldom asked question but it came up by one of my players who is looking to add a new Tool Proficiency to his character. A question came up after reading the Resources and Complication sections.
Resources. Receiving training in a language or tool typically takes at least ten workweeks, but this time is reduced by a number of workweeks equal to the character’s Intelligence modifier (an Intelligence penalty doesn’t increase the time needed). Training costs 25 gp per workweek.
Complications. Complications that arise while training typically involve the teacher. Every ten workweeks spent in training brings a 10 percent chance of a complication, examples of which are on the Training Complications table.
The resources mentions least amount of workweek is 10 (minus Int mod) and the Complications mentioned the percentage increases 10 per ten workweeks spent training. What I don't see is a qualifier or table indicating at least to the basics what workweek average time spent on a language or tool.
I'll probably just keep everything at a 10 workweek limit but something like a table mentioned above would have been helpful to properly implement the complications rule but I'm curious to see what other people have done with this Downtime.
Because there is no need:
If a person tries to gain a proficiency in tool or language, the amount of time requires is 10 - INT (negative does not add). There is no average or table of how long Elvish takes to learn, or how long smithy tools take because it is based on each PC. Every tool/language is 10 - INT.
this might be a seldom asked question but it came up by one of my players who is looking to add a new Tool Proficiency to his character. A question came up after reading the Resources and Complication sections.
Resources. Receiving training in a language or tool typically takes at least ten workweeks, but this time is reduced by a number of workweeks equal to the character’s Intelligence modifier (an Intelligence penalty doesn’t increase the time needed). Training costs 25 gp per workweek.
Complications. Complications that arise while training typically involve the teacher. Every ten workweeks spent in training brings a 10 percent chance of a complication, examples of which are on the Training Complications table.
The resources mentions least amount of workweek is 10 (minus Int mod) and the Complications mentioned the percentage increases 10 per ten workweeks spent training. What I don't see is a qualifier or table indicating at least to the basics what workweek average time spent on a language or tool.
I'll probably just keep everything at a 10 workweek limit but something like a table mentioned above would have been helpful to properly implement the complications rule but I'm curious to see what other people have done with this Downtime.
Because there is no need:
If a person tries to gain a proficiency in tool or language, the amount of time requires is 10 - INT (negative does not add). There is no average or table of how long Elvish takes to learn, or how long smithy tools take because it is based on each PC. Every tool/language is 10 - INT.
It's the complications that throw me which reads as some training could take longer than the base 10.
Actually, I have to revamp my statement because I glossed over the words "at least" which means the minimum amount, so I guess they didn't give a table because they wanted DMs to have some say. Like Elvish might take only 10 weeks to learn, but Celestial might take 20 (before modifiers). Something like deep speech might be 30 weeks with how rare and hard it is. But yeah there is no table, but I would look at it from a world stand point. Learning something is easier if your instructor has a good handle on the material. So Smithy tools might only take 10 weeks to train under a grand master smith, but might take 40 weeks if an apprentice is the teacher.
Another week, another chance for me to rant about how time constraints mean nothing. Either they have 10 weeks or they don't - it's the same result as you just deciding "ok you're proficient" or not. It's not like the player is going to sit out several sessions as the rest of the party continues to adventure.
"Workweeks" mean nothing beyond the gold cost they put there. Time in this game has no cost unless you as the DM provide a cost - something else they could have gained over that time or something in the world changing for the worse as the party is not out there fighting. If you don't have those conditions you might as well just charge the gold and wave your hand saying an unspecified amount of time has passed, because to the players there is no difference between an in-game week and an in-game year. They both take the same amount of real world time to pass.
The other thing about Tool Proficiency is that it is exactly as useful as the DM determines it is and not a bit more. So I'd base the cost on how useful you will let it be rather than an arbitrary number from Xanthars.
Another week, another chance for me to rant about how time constraints mean nothing. Either they have 10 weeks or they don't - it's the same result as you just deciding "ok you're proficient" or not. It's not like the player is going to sit out several sessions as the rest of the party continues to adventure.
"Workweeks" mean nothing beyond the gold cost they put there. Time in this game has no cost unless you as the DM provide a cost - something else they could have gained over that time or something in the world changing for the worse as the party is not out there fighting. If you don't have those conditions you might as well just charge the gold and wave your hand saying an unspecified amount of time has passed, because to the players there is no difference between an in-game week and an in-game year. They both take the same amount of real world time to pass.
The other thing about Tool Proficiency is that it is exactly as useful as the DM determines it is and not a bit more. So I'd base the cost on how useful you will let it be rather than an arbitrary number from Xanthars.
Well since you only wanted to rant next time just move on!
Every 10 weeks in time there is a 10% of a complication - aka a RP moment - for those of us that care about our characters interacting with the world in ways that aren't only to further the story that, complication is important. What OP wanted was a table possibly that had standardized how long tools and languages take to learn. This also makes a difference if downtime is only 5 weeks long, or 10 weeks long and the language you wanted to learn is going to take 20 weeks. There is a big difference between 1 in game week and 1 in game year when you are focused on characters. Think about your life, how different are you from you 1 week ago, vs you 1 year ago.
But if all you care to do at the table is hack and slash than yes, downtime is just a gold sink and nothing more.
Actually, I have to revamp my statement because I glossed over the words "at least" which means the minimum amount, so I guess they didn't give a table because they wanted DMs to have some say. Like Elvish might take only 10 weeks to learn, but Celestial might take 20 (before modifiers). Something like deep speech might be 30 weeks with how rare and hard it is. But yeah there is no table, but I would look at it from a world stand point. Learning something is easier if your instructor has a good handle on the material. So Smithy tools might only take 10 weeks to train under a grand master smith, but might take 40 weeks if an apprentice is the teacher.
Thanks. I was questioning if I had written the dumbest question in the forum. My biggest fault as a DM is I am too much of a RAW so I want to keep things consistent so I have a tendency to ask these type of literal questions. I always had the same conclusion as you had mentioned above but I just wanted to see what other people read to the rule or how they may have applied it to their game. Thanks again for your input I appreciate it.
I don't see complications as being a complication directly tied to your learning, but rather it's a complication for your teacher (as noted in OP's citation) that interrupts theirability to continue teaching you.
i.e. a complication would be something like the sudden need to undergo a quest to help the teacher resolve whatever the complication is, and then training can continue; something like "Oh shit, my daughter's been kidnapped! Uh... yeah, finding her is sorta more important than teaching you right now..." A complication of "you're dumber than I had expected" is pretty uninspired, imo.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
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this might be a seldom asked question but it came up by one of my players who is looking to add a new Tool Proficiency to his character. A question came up after reading the Resources and Complication sections.
The resources mentions least amount of workweek is 10 (minus Int mod) and the Complications mentioned the percentage increases 10 per ten workweeks spent training. What I don't see is a qualifier or table indicating at least to the basics what workweek average time spent on a language or tool.
I'll probably just keep everything at a 10 workweek limit but something like a table mentioned above would have been helpful to properly implement the complications rule but I'm curious to see what other people have done with this Downtime.
Because there is no need:If a person tries to gain a proficiency in tool or language, the amount of time requires is 10 - INT (negative does not add). There is no average or table of how long Elvish takes to learn, or how long smithy tools take because it is based on each PC. Every tool/language is 10 - INT.
Reading Comprehension is bad sometimes XDIt's the complications that throw me which reads as some training could take longer than the base 10.
Actually, I have to revamp my statement because I glossed over the words "at least" which means the minimum amount, so I guess they didn't give a table because they wanted DMs to have some say. Like Elvish might take only 10 weeks to learn, but Celestial might take 20 (before modifiers). Something like deep speech might be 30 weeks with how rare and hard it is. But yeah there is no table, but I would look at it from a world stand point. Learning something is easier if your instructor has a good handle on the material. So Smithy tools might only take 10 weeks to train under a grand master smith, but might take 40 weeks if an apprentice is the teacher.
Another week, another chance for me to rant about how time constraints mean nothing. Either they have 10 weeks or they don't - it's the same result as you just deciding "ok you're proficient" or not. It's not like the player is going to sit out several sessions as the rest of the party continues to adventure.
"Workweeks" mean nothing beyond the gold cost they put there. Time in this game has no cost unless you as the DM provide a cost - something else they could have gained over that time or something in the world changing for the worse as the party is not out there fighting. If you don't have those conditions you might as well just charge the gold and wave your hand saying an unspecified amount of time has passed, because to the players there is no difference between an in-game week and an in-game year. They both take the same amount of real world time to pass.
The other thing about Tool Proficiency is that it is exactly as useful as the DM determines it is and not a bit more. So I'd base the cost on how useful you will let it be rather than an arbitrary number from Xanthars.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Well since you only wanted to rant next time just move on!
Every 10 weeks in time there is a 10% of a complication - aka a RP moment - for those of us that care about our characters interacting with the world in ways that aren't only to further the story that, complication is important. What OP wanted was a table possibly that had standardized how long tools and languages take to learn. This also makes a difference if downtime is only 5 weeks long, or 10 weeks long and the language you wanted to learn is going to take 20 weeks. There is a big difference between 1 in game week and 1 in game year when you are focused on characters. Think about your life, how different are you from you 1 week ago, vs you 1 year ago.
But if all you care to do at the table is hack and slash than yes, downtime is just a gold sink and nothing more.
Thanks. I was questioning if I had written the dumbest question in the forum. My biggest fault as a DM is I am too much of a RAW so I want to keep things consistent so I have a tendency to ask these type of literal questions. I always had the same conclusion as you had mentioned above but I just wanted to see what other people read to the rule or how they may have applied it to their game. Thanks again for your input I appreciate it.
I don't see complications as being a complication directly tied to your learning, but rather it's a complication for your teacher (as noted in OP's citation) that interrupts their ability to continue teaching you.
i.e. a complication would be something like the sudden need to undergo a quest to help the teacher resolve whatever the complication is, and then training can continue; something like "Oh shit, my daughter's been kidnapped! Uh... yeah, finding her is sorta more important than teaching you right now..." A complication of "you're dumber than I had expected" is pretty uninspired, imo.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.