Would you all allow a player to jump upward to attack a creature that would otherwise be out of its reach? Fighter has 5ft reach, needs to jump 10ft high to momentarily attack a harpy 20ft above the fighter.
if the fighter is indeed allowed to make that attack in midair, would there be any real difference between this scenario and casting misty step?
or would the fighter immediately fall back down?
“You can extend your arms half your height above yourself during the jump. Thus, you can reach above you a distance equal to the height of the jump plus 1 1/2 times your height.”
funnily enough raw seems to say you can reach but not actually grab anything. Makes me picture PCs attempting to leap at ledges in a way similar to salmon migrating upstream.
I personally allow pretty much every action while in the air. I just let it happen potentially at the very end of the movement. Falling is immediate, but only immediately after your move is gone.
i got a champion build that uses the mobile feat and jumping rules to vault over medium size creatures while making attacks through the air. Slips away without getting opportunity attacked.
Would you all allow a player to jump upward to attack a creature that would otherwise be out of its reach? Fighter has 5ft reach, needs to jump 10ft high to momentarily attack a harpy 20ft above the fighter.
if the fighter is indeed allowed to make that attack in midair, would there be any real difference between this scenario and casting misty step?
You can jump and cast misty step (you can also jump and attack). What you cannot do is jump, roll, realize you're not going to make it, and cast misty step to cancel out your failure.
Not only is there no such thing as momentum, "a fall" is not defined in the rules. Sure, there's some things we'd clearly recognize as "a fall"... fall off a 30 foot ledge and land on the ground 30 feet below, "a fall!" But...
A 30 foot-high jump that you initiated.... "a fall" when you land?
(Related to above) Grappled by an enemy, they jump or flyl while dragging you against your will.... "a fall" when you land?
Falling for 30 feet, but you teleport to a point on the ground that you can see before hitting the ground?
Thrown horizontally or vertically (up) against a surface?
Reasonable minds could differ on these.
My rulings on the above:
1) if you can jump up a distance, I believe you can land safely from that distance. That’s only for planned jumps up though; unplanned falls over 10 feet still cause damage, and a jump down (distance up to your maximum vertical) would require a DEX acrobatics check to avoid damage and prone
2) a fall only if you or they end the grapple condition, or if they decide to fall too while still grappling you
3) teleporting resets fall speed (you start at 0 FPS/MPH) unless you fall through a portal or gate where it would be reasonable to conserve momentum (like in “Portal”, as opposed to “Nightcrawler” style teleporting)
4) damage only if the ability used to throw/move you says you take damage if you strike a surface, unless you also fall down as part of the throw
You can jump and cast misty step (you can also jump and attack). What you cannot do is jump, roll, realize you're not going to make it, and cast misty step to cancel out your failure.
So you're saying I cannot cast a bonus action spell as a reaction...
You can jump and cast misty step (you can also jump and attack). What you cannot do is jump, roll, realize you're not going to make it, and cast misty step to cancel out your failure.
So you're saying I cannot cast a bonus action spell as a reaction...
That seems to be the consensus. I know I've asked something similar and the response was you are Reacting to the fall so neither Action nor Bonus Action is allowed. I'm not sure in the falling case there is any RAW where it defines these non-action actions, at least anywhere I could find, saying this is accurate but I'm not against the reasoning applied to the situation.
If you want more discussion outside of the limits of the rules, I suggest you post in a forum other than Rules and Game Mechanics and mention you are interested in opinions. I would let someone use Ready Action to use for a Bonus Action ability but, that's still a house ruling. As far as jumping and using an action is concerned, it could be well within the rights of the DM to say that making an Athletics(or other check) for the success of your jump IS your action. Alternatively, the could allow your Passive Athletics to make a jump. So many options.
If you want more discussion outside of the limits of the rules, I suggest you post in a forum other than Rules and Game Mechanics and mention you are interested in opinions. I would let someone use Ready Action to use for a Bonus Action ability but, that's still a house ruling. As far as jumping and using an action is concerned, it could be well within the rights of the DM to say that making an Athletics(or other check) for the success of your jump IS your action. Alternatively, the could allow your Passive Athletics to make a jump. So many options.
I’m not sure anyone is saying the rules are wrong what’s going on in THIS thread has been a healthy discussion of the spell. All be it far from the original post of window jumping.
Making an Active Skill check can require an action. Look to specific examples like Hiding and Searching by using ability checks, they require an action. Depending on the situation, other ability checks reasonably could as well, that was all I was saying. I wasn't talking about DM fiat specifically.
Why wouldn’t you be able to cast the spell after you realize you aren’t going to make it a cross the gap when you jump? Just because you as a player are “reacting” to that new information doesn’t mean it requires a reaction to get out of it.
thats like saying you can’t use the two weapon fighting bonus action attack if a creature lives through your attack action, and ruling that a reaction based attack is necessary.
besides, who says you don’t realize you’re not gonna make the jump until after you’re falling? There have been plenty of times in my life where I’ve attempted to do something athletic and realized it’s not going to work the moment I’ve started the maneuver. You can be confident enough to try it, but the out come is still uncertain.
None of you have had that feeling where you try something and instantly know it’s not going to work out well? If only we could misty step.
There are written rules that tell you that your 30 foot of movement isn't flying movement. There are no written rules that say a Bonus Action cannot be made while falling.
Some of the posts on here suggest that Xanathar's is where the falling rules have been changed to say immediate but I can't help wonder how it would be handled if they weren't... I never thought of doing anything when I was told a fall was taking place, I always thought you couldn't do anything except maybe cast feather fall if you had the spell.
Handle it by DM judgment. How far is the character falling? How much time would the character have before they hit the ground?
Going by Xanathar rules, can you imagine how many miles the Shits Vox Machina would have had to have been falling during the time this was going on?
Some of the posts on here suggest that Xanathar's is where the falling rules have been changed to say immediate but I can't help wonder how it would be handled if they weren't... I never thought of doing anything when I was told a fall was taking place, I always thought you couldn't do anything except maybe cast feather fall if you had the spell.
Handle it by DM judgment. How far is the character falling? How much time would the character have before they hit the ground?
Going by Xanathar rules, can you imagine how many miles the Shits Vox Machina would have had to have been falling during the time this was going on?
This is the first time I've seen them pre-studio gaming. This is awesome!
Random Finding: I was bored so looked around to see if Jeremy Crawford had ever been asked some similar questions to fall/reaction/bonus action in regards to Misty Step.
Question: "I'm sure someone has asked this but I couldn't find a definitive solution. Can you cast feather fall in time with 1 reaction, considering the "Xanathar's guide" rules on falling, where you fall 500ft immediately." JC Answer: "Feather fall, like many things in D&D, creates an exception: it lets you cast a spell as a reaction to slow someone's fall. If a spell or other exceptional thing in the game says it does something, that's what it does. Also, any rule in "Xanathar's Guide" is optional."
Question: "can you ready a bonus action? Like misty step?" JC answer: "A bonus action can be taken only on your turn. You, therefore, can't use Ready with a bonus action."
JCs answer is right for the wrong reason. You can’t ready a Bonus Action spell, because the Ready section specifically says so:
“When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell's magic requires concentration (explained in chapter 10).”
Not being able to use a Bonus Action on someone else’s turn has nothing to do with it, because Ready turns a Move or Action into a Reaction. His answer is bizarre, but I suppose even a broken clock...
Yeah, the Arcane Trickster in my game wanted to do something similar but I allowed it to go as far as the edge of the rooftop because that is what she could see. At the time she was being chased by the city watch and wanted a quick escape so once she * bamf * to the roof I made the city watch do a perception check to determine if they could figure out where she went since their focus was looking straight or down during the chase.
Just like the conversations around Melf's Minute Meteors, I would rule that Misty Step does not target only you; it targets the unoccupied square you are teleporting to. So no, it would not work. You still need line of effect. Lots of people will disagree. Whatever...
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Would you all allow a player to jump upward to attack a creature that would otherwise be out of its reach? Fighter has 5ft reach, needs to jump 10ft high to momentarily attack a harpy 20ft above the fighter.
if the fighter is indeed allowed to make that attack in midair, would there be any real difference between this scenario and casting misty step?
or would the fighter immediately fall back down?
“You can extend your arms half your height above yourself during the jump. Thus, you can reach above you a distance equal to the height of the jump plus 1 1/2 times your height.”
funnily enough raw seems to say you can reach but not actually grab anything. Makes me picture PCs attempting to leap at ledges in a way similar to salmon migrating upstream.
I personally allow pretty much every action while in the air. I just let it happen potentially at the very end of the movement. Falling is immediate, but only immediately after your move is gone.
i got a champion build that uses the mobile feat and jumping rules to vault over medium size creatures while making attacks through the air. Slips away without getting opportunity attacked.
You can jump and cast misty step (you can also jump and attack). What you cannot do is jump, roll, realize you're not going to make it, and cast misty step to cancel out your failure.
My rulings on the above:
1) if you can jump up a distance, I believe you can land safely from that distance. That’s only for planned jumps up though; unplanned falls over 10 feet still cause damage, and a jump down (distance up to your maximum vertical) would require a DEX acrobatics check to avoid damage and prone
2) a fall only if you or they end the grapple condition, or if they decide to fall too while still grappling you
3) teleporting resets fall speed (you start at 0 FPS/MPH) unless you fall through a portal or gate where it would be reasonable to conserve momentum (like in “Portal”, as opposed to “Nightcrawler” style teleporting)
4) damage only if the ability used to throw/move you says you take damage if you strike a surface, unless you also fall down as part of the throw
So you're saying I cannot cast a bonus action spell as a reaction...
"Not all those who wander are lost"
That seems to be the consensus. I know I've asked something similar and the response was you are Reacting to the fall so neither Action nor Bonus Action is allowed. I'm not sure in the falling case there is any RAW where it defines these non-action actions, at least anywhere I could find, saying this is accurate but I'm not against the reasoning applied to the situation.
If you want more discussion outside of the limits of the rules, I suggest you post in a forum other than Rules and Game Mechanics and mention you are interested in opinions. I would let someone use Ready Action to use for a Bonus Action ability but, that's still a house ruling. As far as jumping and using an action is concerned, it could be well within the rights of the DM to say that making an Athletics(or other check) for the success of your jump IS your action. Alternatively, the could allow your Passive Athletics to make a jump. So many options.
I’m not sure anyone is saying the rules are wrong what’s going on in THIS thread has been a healthy discussion of the spell. All be it far from the original post of window jumping.
Making an Active Skill check can require an action. Look to specific examples like Hiding and Searching by using ability checks, they require an action. Depending on the situation, other ability checks reasonably could as well, that was all I was saying. I wasn't talking about DM fiat specifically.
Why wouldn’t you be able to cast the spell after you realize you aren’t going to make it a cross the gap when you jump? Just because you as a player are “reacting” to that new information doesn’t mean it requires a reaction to get out of it.
thats like saying you can’t use the two weapon fighting bonus action attack if a creature lives through your attack action, and ruling that a reaction based attack is necessary.
besides, who says you don’t realize you’re not gonna make the jump until after you’re falling? There have been plenty of times in my life where I’ve attempted to do something athletic and realized it’s not going to work the moment I’ve started the maneuver. You can be confident enough to try it, but the out come is still uncertain.
None of you have had that feeling where you try something and instantly know it’s not going to work out well? If only we could misty step.
There are written rules that tell you that your 30 foot of movement isn't flying movement. There are no written rules that say a Bonus Action cannot be made while falling.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
Handle it by DM judgment. How far is the character falling? How much time would the character have before they hit the ground?
Going by Xanathar rules, can you imagine how many miles
the ShitsVox Machina would have had to have been falling during the time this was going on?"Not all those who wander are lost"
This is the first time I've seen them pre-studio gaming. This is awesome!
Ok, so I CAN Misty Step through a window. Cool.
Random Finding: I was bored so looked around to see if Jeremy Crawford had ever been asked some similar questions to fall/reaction/bonus action in regards to Misty Step.
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1128447267466240000
Question: "I'm sure someone has asked this but I couldn't find a definitive solution. Can you cast feather fall in time with 1 reaction, considering the "Xanathar's guide" rules on falling, where you fall 500ft immediately."
JC Answer: "Feather fall, like many things in D&D, creates an exception: it lets you cast a spell as a reaction to slow someone's fall. If a spell or other exceptional thing in the game says it does something, that's what it does. Also, any rule in "Xanathar's Guide" is optional."
https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/779375456927690753
Question: "can you ready a bonus action? Like misty step?"
JC answer: "A bonus action can be taken only on your turn. You, therefore, can't use Ready with a bonus action."
JCs answer is right for the wrong reason. You can’t ready a Bonus Action spell, because the Ready section specifically says so:
“When you ready a spell, you cast it as normal but hold its energy, which you release with your reaction when the trigger occurs. To be readied, a spell must have a casting time of 1 action, and holding onto the spell's magic requires concentration (explained in chapter 10).”
Not being able to use a Bonus Action on someone else’s turn has nothing to do with it, because Ready turns a Move or Action into a Reaction. His answer is bizarre, but I suppose even a broken clock...
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
So, read through and didnt find an answer to this one:
Can you Misty Step to a location if it's unoccupied, but not visible?
Example: Can I Misty Step 30' straight up and onto the other side of a roof? The open airspace is definitely unoccupied and I know it.... but
No because the spell specifically says you can only teleport to a location you can see.
You can absolutely do that with Dimension Door though - as that doesn't require sight.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Figured since one "knows" its an unoccupied space there could be a little loophole, but I totally get it.
You never know until you ask. Thanks.
Yeah, the Arcane Trickster in my game wanted to do something similar but I allowed it to go as far as the edge of the rooftop because that is what she could see. At the time she was being chased by the city watch and wanted a quick escape so once she * bamf * to the roof I made the city watch do a perception check to determine if they could figure out where she went since their focus was looking straight or down during the chase.
Just like the conversations around Melf's Minute Meteors, I would rule that Misty Step does not target only you; it targets the unoccupied square you are teleporting to. So no, it would not work. You still need line of effect. Lots of people will disagree. Whatever...