Hello. I have done a lot of research on this, but I couldn't find anything. I was building an artificer, who focused mainly on using firearms, and then a big question came up. The repeating shot invocation is extremely useful, but I couldn't figure out if it would ignore gunpowder or not (as it says "ammunition," and I know nothing about guns so I'm not sure what is and isn't classified as ammunition). What do you think?
Are you using the Gunslinger firearms or the official D&D firearms from the DMG?
Matt Mercer intentionally chose not to use the Reloading rules from the DMG and made his own Firearm rules just for the Gunslinger to keep people like Percy and Darrington from his Campaign 1 from using that Invocation for balance.
Something I use today, to keep one of my Artificer players from slapping that invocation on his Gunslinger sister's weapon.
Matt Mercer intentionally chose not to use the Reloading rules from the DMG and made his own Firearm rules just for the Gunslinger to keep people like Percy and Darrington from his Campaign 1 from using that Invocation for balance
That's not actually accurate, as the Artificer wasn't around when campaign 1 was being played (the artificer came out mid last year, campaign 1 ended three years ago. Matt's Gunslinger was made several years before the artificer ever first saw the light of day.
The real reason is most likely due to SRD vs non-SRD and weapon properties.
Firearms are found in the Dungeon Master's Guide and are not part of the SRD (System Reference Document, the parts of the rules that are free to use under the Open Gaming License to make your own content for the 5th edition of Dungeons & Dragons). As such, firearms found there cannot be used if you wanted to make your own gunslinger (like Matt did), so you would have to make your own guns.
DMG firearms have two unique properties; Ammunition (range X/Y) and reload (X shots):
Ammunition (range Y/X): this is not the same ammunition property as found in the Basic Rules. The BR version of the property describes how each time you attack, draw the ammunition from a quiver or case; it's very much written for bows and crowbows and would not apply to firearms. The DMG version of this property for firearms specifies that renaissance/modern firearms use bullets and futuristic ones use energy sells, it's an entirely different version of the property for firearms. You can compare the two and see the difference.
Reload (X shots): this is a completely unique property for firearms that can fire multiple times before reloading.
Now, because Matt couldn't use the BR ammunition property (doesn't work for guns, it's designed for bows), and couldn't use the firearm ammunition and reload properties (they're not part of the SRD), he had to make his own properties. That's why his firearms have reload X (instead of reload (X shots)) and their ammunition is described not as a property, but a trait.
Because Matts ammunition trait isn't a property, it doesn't interact with the Repeating Shot infusion. Heck, he could've made his own unique property like he did for Reload X and called it Munitions or something similar, and it still wouldn't interact with Repeating Shot because that infusion only interacts with the Ammunition properties found in the Basic Rules/SRD (that only works with bows and crossbows) and the Dungeon Master's Guide/Non-SRD version (that works with firearms).
Matt Mercer intentionally chose not to use the Reloading rules from the DMG and made his own Firearm rules just for the Gunslinger to keep people like Percy and Darrington from his Campaign 1 from using that Invocation for balance
That's not actually accurate, as the Artificer wasn't around when campaign 1 was being played (the artificer came out mid last year, campaign 1 ended three years ago. Matt's Gunslinger was made several years before the artificer ever first saw the light of day.
The real reason is most likely due to SRD vs non-SRD and weapon properties.
Firearms are found in the Dungeon Master's Guide and are not part of the SRD (System Reference Document, the parts of the rules that are free to use under the Open Gaming License to make your own content for the 5th edition of Dungeons & Dragons). As such, firearms found there cannot be used if you wanted to make your own gunslinger (like Matt did), so you would have to make your own guns.
DMG firearms have two unique properties; Ammunition (range X/Y) and reload (X shots):
Ammunition (range Y/X): this is not the same ammunition property as found in the Basic Rules. The BR version of the property describes how each time you attack, draw the ammunition from a quiver or case; it's very much written for bows and crowbows and would not apply to firearms. The DMG version of this property for firearms specifies that renaissance/modern firearms use bullets and futuristic ones use energy sells, it's an entirely different version of the property for firearms. You can compare the two and see the difference.
Reload (X shots): this is a completely unique property for firearms that can fire multiple times before reloading.
Now, because Matt couldn't use the BR ammunition property (doesn't work for guns, it's designed for bows), and couldn't use the firearm ammunition and reload properties (they're not part of the SRD), he had to make his own properties. That's why his firearms have reload X (instead of reload (X shots)) and their ammunition is described not as a property, but a trait.
Because Matts ammunition trait isn't a property, it doesn't interact with the Repeating Shot infusion. Heck, he could've made his own unique property like he did for Reload X and called it Munitions or something similar, and it still wouldn't interact with Repeating Shot because that infusion only interacts with the Ammunition properties found in the Basic Rules/SRD (that only works with bows and crossbows) and the Dungeon Master's Guide/Non-SRD version (that works with firearms).
Thank you for coming to my TED talk :P
Oh, well, hello Mister Fancy Pants!
LOL Just kidding, but great clarification. Thank you. I misheard/ misread the history. As someone who has played for 40 years, not counting the travesty of 3.5 and 4 I was stating what I heard for reasons it was not an option. I really do appreciate you setting it straight as one Dave to another, and I was including the Artificer as a class from Dragonlance/ Krynn 1.0 when it was all Tinker Gnomes all the time in a fugue as well :D
Are you using the Gunslinger firearms or the official D&D firearms from the DMG?
Matt Mercer intentionally chose not to use the Reloading rules from the DMG and made his own Firearm rules just for the Gunslinger to keep people like Percy and Darrington from his Campaign 1 from using that Invocation for balance.
Something I use today, to keep one of my Artificer players from slapping that invocation on his Gunslinger sister's weapon.
Sorry I forgot to specify. I am using the DMG firearms. I understand the reloading rules, but the Renaissance pistol and musket both just keep the loading property. Would I still have to keep track of gunpowder, but not bullets, if I were to infuse a musket with repeating shot?
Hello. I have done a lot of research on this, but I couldn't find anything. I was building an artificer, who focused mainly on using firearms, and then a big question came up. The repeating shot invocation is extremely useful, but I couldn't figure out if it would ignore gunpowder or not (as it says "ammunition," and I know nothing about guns so I'm not sure what is and isn't classified as ammunition). What do you think?
OP, addressing your actual question about Artificer and firearms, I'm going to assume you are playing with the DMG firearms, so Gunslinger & Mercer are irrelevant.
End result: Repeating Shot infusion works exactly as expected with firearms.
Repeating Shot requires a weapon with the Ammunition property.
All DMG firearms have this property.
Repeating Shot lets you ignore the Loading property if the weapon has it.
Not all DMG firearms have this property. DMG firearms have eitherLoading or Reload. The properties are completely different in their interactions.
Firearms with the Loading property ignore it as expected, per the infusion.
Firearms with the Reload property do not ignore the property, but they don't have to use the property either.
Reload is specifically bypassed entirely if you are exercising the part of Repeating Shot that creates ammunition for you. You don't have to reload what's being provided magically.
Are you using the Gunslinger firearms or the official D&D firearms from the DMG?
Matt Mercer intentionally chose not to use the Reloading rules from the DMG and made his own Firearm rules just for the Gunslinger to keep people like Percy and Darrington from his Campaign 1 from using that Invocation for balance.
Something I use today, to keep one of my Artificer players from slapping that invocation on his Gunslinger sister's weapon.
Sorry I forgot to specify. I am using the DMG firearms. I understand the reloading rules, but the Renaissance pistol and musket both just keep the loading property. Would I still have to keep track of gunpowder, but not bullets, if I were to infuse a musket with repeating shot?
No, you would not. If you are using the infusion for the weapon to produce its own ammunition, you're good to go. You only have to track physical ammunition that you would/could manually load.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Hello. I have done a lot of research on this, but I couldn't find anything. I was building an artificer, who focused mainly on using firearms, and then a big question came up. The repeating shot invocation is extremely useful, but I couldn't figure out if it would ignore gunpowder or not (as it says "ammunition," and I know nothing about guns so I'm not sure what is and isn't classified as ammunition). What do you think?
OP, addressing your actual question about Artificer and firearms, I'm going to assume you are playing with the DMG firearms, so Gunslinger & Mercer are irrelevant.
End result: Repeating Shot infusion works exactly as expected with firearms.
Repeating Shot requires a weapon with the Ammunition property.
All DMG firearms have this property.
Repeating Shot lets you ignore the Loading property if the weapon has it.
Not all DMG firearms have this property. DMG firearms have eitherLoading or Reload. The properties are completely different in their interactions.
Firearms with the Loading property ignore it as expected, per the infusion.
Firearms with the Reload property do not ignore the property, but they don't have to use the property either.
Reload is specifically bypassed entirely if you are exercising the part of Repeating Shot that creates ammunition for you. You don't have to reload what's being provided magically.
Thank you for answering. I understand that it ignores the loading property if it has it, and it ignores bullets so I wouldn't need to keep track of them, but would I need to keep track of my gunpowder store (would repeating shot also create gunpowder)?
Hello. I have done a lot of research on this, but I couldn't find anything. I was building an artificer, who focused mainly on using firearms, and then a big question came up. The repeating shot invocation is extremely useful, but I couldn't figure out if it would ignore gunpowder or not (as it says "ammunition," and I know nothing about guns so I'm not sure what is and isn't classified as ammunition). What do you think?
OP, addressing your actual question about Artificer and firearms, I'm going to assume you are playing with the DMG firearms, so Gunslinger & Mercer are irrelevant.
End result: Repeating Shot infusion works exactly as expected with firearms.
Repeating Shot requires a weapon with the Ammunition property.
All DMG firearms have this property.
Repeating Shot lets you ignore the Loading property if the weapon has it.
Not all DMG firearms have this property. DMG firearms have eitherLoading or Reload. The properties are completely different in their interactions.
Firearms with the Loading property ignore it as expected, per the infusion.
Firearms with the Reload property do not ignore the property, but they don't have to use the property either.
Reload is specifically bypassed entirely if you are exercising the part of Repeating Shot that creates ammunition for you. You don't have to reload what's being provided magically.
Thank you for answering. I understand that it ignores the loading property if it has it, and it ignores bullets so I wouldn't need to keep track of them, but would I need to keep track of my gunpowder store (would repeating shot also create gunpowder)?
Repeating Shot takes care of everything needed to fire the weapon, so yes, that would include powder.
As far as I can tell, you don't actually need gunpowder for any firearm to begin with... the only mechanical interaction Gunpowder, powder horn has is when used as an explosive.
Regardless, if you're using Repeating Shot to produce ammunition for you, then you don't need anything at all.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Matt Mercer intentionally chose not to use the Reloading rules from the DMG and made his own Firearm rules just for the Gunslinger to keep people like Percy and Darrington from his Campaign 1 from using that Invocation for balance
That's not actually accurate, as the Artificer wasn't around when campaign 1 was being played (the artificer came out mid last year, campaign 1 ended three years ago. Matt's Gunslinger was made several years before the artificer ever first saw the light of day.
The real reason is most likely due to SRD vs non-SRD and weapon properties.
Firearms are found in the Dungeon Master's Guide and are not part of the SRD (System Reference Document, the parts of the rules that are free to use under the Open Gaming License to make your own content for the 5th edition of Dungeons & Dragons). As such, firearms found there cannot be used if you wanted to make your own gunslinger (like Matt did), so you would have to make your own guns.
DMG firearms have two unique properties; Ammunition (range X/Y) and reload (X shots):
Ammunition (range Y/X): this is not the same ammunition property as found in the Basic Rules. The BR version of the property describes how each time you attack, draw the ammunition from a quiver or case; it's very much written for bows and crowbows and would not apply to firearms. The DMG version of this property for firearms specifies that renaissance/modern firearms use bullets and futuristic ones use energy sells, it's an entirely different version of the property for firearms. You can compare the two and see the difference.
Reload (X shots): this is a completely unique property for firearms that can fire multiple times before reloading.
Now, because Matt couldn't use the BR ammunition property (doesn't work for guns, it's designed for bows), and couldn't use the firearm ammunition and reload properties (they're not part of the SRD), he had to make his own properties. That's why his firearms have reload X (instead of reload (X shots)) and their ammunition is described not as a property, but a trait.
Because Matts ammunition trait isn't a property, it doesn't interact with the Repeating Shot infusion. Heck, he could've made his own unique property like he did for Reload X and called it Munitions or something similar, and it still wouldn't interact with Repeating Shot because that infusion only interacts with the Ammunition properties found in the Basic Rules/SRD (that only works with bows and crossbows) and the Dungeon Master's Guide/Non-SRD version (that works with firearms).
Thank you for coming to my TED talk :P
Fortunately the Gunner Feat will soon be much more useful for this situation, and seeing how it's going to be in an official sourcebook, I'm curious as to how DM's will respond to it...
So I hate to drag up the old thread, but it seems RAW Repeating Shot does not say the ammunition is loaded in the weapon. Since it already has +1 and other properties would it be out of line to think Ammunition appears in an ammo pouch or quiver for a bow giving unlimited additional ammo when cocked or drawn. Not as OP. Firearms still need to be reloaded with 2 hands when empty from being loaded with original non magical ammo. You only need to physically carry the firearms ammo capacity in your pouch. EX Pistol. Load it out of initiative. Cock to fire on your Attack, X# of times per Action. As it is fired, a magic piece of Ammo appears in your ammo pouch, and after 4 shots you must still reload.
So I hate to drag up the old thread, but it seems RAW Repeating Shot does not say the ammunition is loaded in the weapon. Since it already has +1 and other properties would it be out of line to think Ammunition appears in an ammo pouch or quiver for a bow giving unlimited additional ammo when cocked or drawn. Not as OP. Firearms still need to be reloaded with 2 hands when empty from being loaded with original non magical ammo. You only need to physically carry the firearms ammo capacity in your pouch. EX Pistol. Load it out of initiative. Cock to fire on your Attack, X# of times per Action. As it is fired, a magic piece of Ammo appears in your ammo pouch, and after 4 shots you must still reload.
That may be true for firearms with the Reload feature; it's objectively wrong for firearms with the Loading feature. That you used Pistol was an error, since no official pistol holds 4 shots before having to be loaded and it uses the exact property that Repeating Shot bypasses.
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Hello. I have done a lot of research on this, but I couldn't find anything. I was building an artificer, who focused mainly on using firearms, and then a big question came up. The repeating shot invocation is extremely useful, but I couldn't figure out if it would ignore gunpowder or not (as it says "ammunition," and I know nothing about guns so I'm not sure what is and isn't classified as ammunition). What do you think?
Are you using the Gunslinger firearms or the official D&D firearms from the DMG?
Matt Mercer intentionally chose not to use the Reloading rules from the DMG and made his own Firearm rules just for the Gunslinger to keep people like Percy and Darrington from his Campaign 1 from using that Invocation for balance.
Something I use today, to keep one of my Artificer players from slapping that invocation on his Gunslinger sister's weapon.
That's not actually accurate, as the Artificer wasn't around when campaign 1 was being played (the artificer came out mid last year, campaign 1 ended three years ago. Matt's Gunslinger was made several years before the artificer ever first saw the light of day.
The real reason is most likely due to SRD vs non-SRD and weapon properties.
Firearms are found in the Dungeon Master's Guide and are not part of the SRD (System Reference Document, the parts of the rules that are free to use under the Open Gaming License to make your own content for the 5th edition of Dungeons & Dragons). As such, firearms found there cannot be used if you wanted to make your own gunslinger (like Matt did), so you would have to make your own guns.
DMG firearms have two unique properties; Ammunition (range X/Y) and reload (X shots):
Now, because Matt couldn't use the BR ammunition property (doesn't work for guns, it's designed for bows), and couldn't use the firearm ammunition and reload properties (they're not part of the SRD), he had to make his own properties. That's why his firearms have reload X (instead of reload (X shots)) and their ammunition is described not as a property, but a trait.
Because Matts ammunition trait isn't a property, it doesn't interact with the Repeating Shot infusion. Heck, he could've made his own unique property like he did for Reload X and called it Munitions or something similar, and it still wouldn't interact with Repeating Shot because that infusion only interacts with the Ammunition properties found in the Basic Rules/SRD (that only works with bows and crossbows) and the Dungeon Master's Guide/Non-SRD version (that works with firearms).
Thank you for coming to my TED talk :P
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
Oh, well, hello Mister Fancy Pants!
LOL Just kidding, but great clarification. Thank you. I misheard/ misread the history. As someone who has played for 40 years, not counting the travesty of 3.5 and 4 I was stating what I heard for reasons it was not an option. I really do appreciate you setting it straight as one Dave to another, and I was including the Artificer as a class from Dragonlance/ Krynn 1.0 when it was all Tinker Gnomes all the time in a fugue as well :D
Sorry I forgot to specify. I am using the DMG firearms. I understand the reloading rules, but the Renaissance pistol and musket both just keep the loading property. Would I still have to keep track of gunpowder, but not bullets, if I were to infuse a musket with repeating shot?
OP, addressing your actual question about Artificer and firearms, I'm going to assume you are playing with the DMG firearms, so Gunslinger & Mercer are irrelevant.
End result: Repeating Shot infusion works exactly as expected with firearms.
[edit]
No, you would not. If you are using the infusion for the weapon to produce its own ammunition, you're good to go. You only have to track physical ammunition that you would/could manually load.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Thank you for answering. I understand that it ignores the loading property if it has it, and it ignores bullets so I wouldn't need to keep track of them, but would I need to keep track of my gunpowder store (would repeating shot also create gunpowder)?
Repeating Shot takes care of everything needed to fire the weapon, so yes, that would include powder.
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As far as I can tell, you don't actually need gunpowder for any firearm to begin with... the only mechanical interaction Gunpowder, powder horn has is when used as an explosive.
Regardless, if you're using Repeating Shot to produce ammunition for you, then you don't need anything at all.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Thank you all for your responses!
Fortunately the Gunner Feat will soon be much more useful for this situation, and seeing how it's going to be in an official sourcebook, I'm curious as to how DM's will respond to it...
So I hate to drag up the old thread, but it seems RAW Repeating Shot does not say the ammunition is loaded in the weapon. Since it already has +1 and other properties would it be out of line to think Ammunition appears in an ammo pouch or quiver for a bow giving unlimited additional ammo when cocked or drawn. Not as OP. Firearms still need to be reloaded with 2 hands when empty from being loaded with original non magical ammo. You only need to physically carry the firearms ammo capacity in your pouch. EX Pistol. Load it out of initiative. Cock to fire on your Attack, X# of times per Action. As it is fired, a magic piece of Ammo appears in your ammo pouch, and after 4 shots you must still reload.
That may be true for firearms with the Reload feature; it's objectively wrong for firearms with the Loading feature. That you used Pistol was an error, since no official pistol holds 4 shots before having to be loaded and it uses the exact property that Repeating Shot bypasses.