Hi guys! This is my first thread, hopefully I do nothing wrong ^^ So I was thinking about making a Barbarian with Path of the Beast and thinking how stupid it was, that a shield was almost mandatory. Since there is no drawback of not using a shield (You can use the same claw for both attacks). I got the idea, once you get the Extra Attack at Level 5 you could dual wield a weapon with 1d8 dmg. So first attack you attack with a flail and the other you use your claw (attacking twice with it). Now the question is: if you can actually hold a flail or some weapon if your hands turn into claws? And if you can, could you actually attack with your claw twice and then use the other weapon that is a versatile weapon (warhammer for example) and use both hands with it, making it 1d10.
Now the subclass is already very strong, so probably you could not do the latter. I just dislike that if you want to use your claws and play optimally that you should use a shield for free AC.
Now the question is: if you can actually hold a flail or some weapon if your hands turn into claws?
Form of the Beast says:
Claws. Each of your hands transforms into a claw, which you can use as a weapon if it’s empty.
This implies you don't have to keep your claws empty, since it gives you the option of leaving them empty to attack with them.
And if you can, could you actually attack with your claw twice and then use the other weapon that is a versatile weapon (warhammer for example) and use both hands with it, making it 1d10.
The rules allow it. In fact, you could use a two-handed weapon. There's no rule against holding a two-handed weapon in one hand, it just requires both when you attack with it.
A versatile weapon might be more useful if you like to grapple a lot, since you can still use it one-handed.
You misunderstand. Two Weapon Fighting is that you get an extra attack with your offhand as a bonus action. "When you take the Attack Action and Attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a Bonus Action to Attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus Attack, unless that modifier is negative."
What I am talking about is that you use one of your extra attacks that you get at level 5, which use the attackaction as a claw attack and the other attack as a weapon attack. The rules for Two-Weapon-Fighting do not mention this at all.
You misunderstand. Two Weapon Fighting is that you get an extra attack with your offhand as a bonus action. "When you take the Attack Action and Attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a Bonus Action to Attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus Attack, unless that modifier is negative."
What I am talking about is that you use one of your extra attacks that you get at level 5, which use the attackaction as a claw attack and the other attack as a weapon attack. The rules for Two-Weapon-Fighting do not mention this at all.
Ah, but you said:
And if you can, could you actually attack with your claw twice and then use the other weapon that is a versatile weapon (warhammer for example) and use both hands with it, making it 1d10.
Which implies you are taking two claw attacks and looking to also attack with your warhammer, which is not possible. you can with the extra attack either make two claw attacks, two war hammer attacks, or 1 hammer and 1 claw.
I don't know how to quote from the rules, so I just copy pasted it: "Each of your hands transforms into a claw, which you can use as a weapon if it’s empty. It deals 1d6 slashing damage on a hit. Once on each of your turns when you attack with a claw using the Attack action, you can make one additional claw attack as part of the same action."
This is what you get at level 3 if you take the subclass (So before you get the extra attack). To my understanding you get a free attack with your claw, if you the claw for the first attack. Now at level 5 you get an extra attack. So naturally you can now attack 3 times with the claw. The question now is though, can you attack once with the claw, then get the free attack again with the claw and then finally use the extra attack with a weapon. And since you can use your claws to hold a weapon, you should be able to 2-hand the last attack too (that part I can see if the DM doesn't allow it) So in short: Attack action with extra attack -> Claw + Claw then take the weapon that you were holding into both hands and attack again
I don't know how to quote from the rules, so I just copy pasted it: "Each of your hands transforms into a claw, which you can use as a weapon if it’s empty. It deals 1d6 slashing damage on a hit. Once on each of your turns when you attack with a claw using the Attack action, you can make one additional claw attack as part of the same action."
This is what you get at level 3 if you take the subclass (So before you get the extra attack). To my understanding you get a free attack with your claw, if you the claw for the first attack. Now at level 5 you get an extra attack. So naturally you can now attack 3 times with the claw. The question now is though, can you attack once with the claw, then get the free attack again with the claw and then finally use the extra attack with a weapon. And since you can use your claws to hold a weapon, you should be able to 2-hand the last attack too (that part I can see if the DM doesn't allow it) So in short: Attack action with extra attack -> Claw + Claw then take the weapon that you were holding into both hands and attack again
You are correct. Hollow is just not aware of the Beast feature that is an exception to the normal limit of attacks a Barbarian can get with an Attack action. Personally I'd go all in with a greataxe and if you grapple someone just drop it and claw their face off.
Hi guys! This is my first thread, hopefully I do nothing wrong ^^
So I was thinking about making a Barbarian with Path of the Beast and thinking how stupid it was, that a shield was almost mandatory. Since there is no drawback of not using a shield (You can use the same claw for both attacks). I got the idea, once you get the Extra Attack at Level 5 you could dual wield a weapon with 1d8 dmg. So first attack you attack with a flail and the other you use your claw (attacking twice with it).
Now the question is: if you can actually hold a flail or some weapon if your hands turn into claws?
And if you can, could you actually attack with your claw twice and then use the other weapon that is a versatile weapon (warhammer for example) and use both hands with it, making it 1d10.
Now the subclass is already very strong, so probably you could not do the latter. I just dislike that if you want to use your claws and play optimally that you should use a shield for free AC.
Edit: Found a post which clears up that you can use either weapon for the extra attack: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/01/30/if-wielding-a-sword-in-each-hand-can-you-decide-what-to-main-action-attack/
Form of the Beast says:
This implies you don't have to keep your claws empty, since it gives you the option of leaving them empty to attack with them.
The rules allow it. In fact, you could use a two-handed weapon. There's no rule against holding a two-handed weapon in one hand, it just requires both when you attack with it.
A versatile weapon might be more useful if you like to grapple a lot, since you can still use it one-handed.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
No. Two weapon fighting requires you to be wielding 2 one-handed weapons which you aren't in the case of claws.
You misunderstand. Two Weapon Fighting is that you get an extra attack with your offhand as a bonus action.
"When you take the Attack Action and Attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a Bonus Action to Attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand. You don’t add your ability modifier to the damage of the bonus Attack, unless that modifier is negative."
What I am talking about is that you use one of your extra attacks that you get at level 5, which use the attack action as a claw attack and the other attack as a weapon attack. The rules for Two-Weapon-Fighting do not mention this at all.
Ah, but you said:
Which implies you are taking two claw attacks and looking to also attack with your warhammer, which is not possible. you can with the extra attack either make two claw attacks, two war hammer attacks, or 1 hammer and 1 claw.
I don't know how to quote from the rules, so I just copy pasted it:
"Each of your hands transforms into a claw, which you can use as a weapon if it’s empty. It deals 1d6 slashing damage on a hit. Once on each of your turns when you attack with a claw using the Attack action, you can make one additional claw attack as part of the same action."
This is what you get at level 3 if you take the subclass (So before you get the extra attack). To my understanding you get a free attack with your claw, if you the claw for the first attack. Now at level 5 you get an extra attack. So naturally you can now attack 3 times with the claw.
The question now is though, can you attack once with the claw, then get the free attack again with the claw and then finally use the extra attack with a weapon. And since you can use your claws to hold a weapon, you should be able to 2-hand the last attack too (that part I can see if the DM doesn't allow it)
So in short: Attack action with extra attack -> Claw + Claw then take the weapon that you were holding into both hands and attack again
You are correct. Hollow is just not aware of the Beast feature that is an exception to the normal limit of attacks a Barbarian can get with an Attack action. Personally I'd go all in with a greataxe and if you grapple someone just drop it and claw their face off.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Oh (read the feature DJ). Yeah, that works.