Im building a new Eldritch Knight for our campaign, and his back story includes him basically being a grim reaper type so I obviously want him to carry a scythe. I love watching scythe wielders in anime and other shows throw them around like buzzsaws and I thought the weapon bond from the EK would be a perfect aesthetic combo so I can throw it and then recall it. I used the custom weapon guide from the D&D Wiki to make the scythe profile,
My DM loves the idea and has no problem with it, but I’m curious to know if other DMs would allow it if I ever want to carry him over to a new game with other people. I’m in the Army and I have to find a new group to play with every time I relocate and I want to know the general feeling on it before I invest a lot of time in a character I won’t get to use when I switch groups.
A 1d10 martial melee weapon with the finesse, heavy, and two-handed properties is balanced according to my formula (which says that the whip is just a hair too weak, every other martial weapon is balanced, and no one even tried to balance simple weapons). Add another property, like thrown, and you break it--but I would let you take a feat to, among other things, add the thrown property to scythes you use.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Is there a certain feat that’s let’s you throw weapons or do you have to make a custom feat? If it’s custom what would you make it? Or if I removed brutal and added finesse would that balance it?
At my table, if someone says their character wields a scythe, I point them to the stats for a glaive and we call it a scythe.
I'm not into giving weapons new traits, especially not when those traits are contradictory in flavor - finesse weapons are meant to be light and agile, while heavy weapons are meant to be harsh and brutal - and only make sense insofar as it would make sense to give literally any property to any weapon because every weapon ever created can benefit from the wielder's hand-eye-coordination (finesse) and also be effective when using brute strength (heavy).
If it were a magical scythe that added all these additional things (finesse, thrown) like the dwarven thrower does for a warhammer, that'd be a different story.
D&D Wiki is homebrew masquerading as real information. It's useless.
Your weapon is way out of line with the way the game currently works. If it were a magic weapon it might be fine, but there are a ridiculous number of properties for a base weapon.
I agree, just use a glaive. Throwing would require a feat or magic item. Throwing a scythe with any effectiveness would be virtually impossible in real life.
Ok. My whole group and I are still pretty new to the game and we’re trying to figure everything out, that’s why I wanted to see what you guys had to say. I’ll just have to live without throwing my giant scythe around lol I’ll use the Glaive profile
If you want to throw it, the closest from official sources would be a Trident(1d6 piercing, thrown (20/60), versatile 1d8) which you would change the damage to slashing. You could also use the yklwa from throne of annihilation (1d8 piercing, thrown (10/30)) and change to slashing.
I would not, personally, allow a heavy, two-handed weapon to have the finesse trait due to several reasons. The first of which being it just makes no sense. It's heavy and requires two-hands to wield. The second is that it breaks the system paradigm where no finesse weapons are higher than d8.
Also, thrown? A scythe? Do you know how large and clumsy those things are?
Honestly, it sounds like you're just breaking the rules to give yourself whatever you want regardless of any system balance or verisimilitude. I mean, if your DM is fine with it, then whatever, go nuts, but this isn't something I'd allow at my table.
Relax man, I wasn’t trying to be cheesy. I wasn’t thinking of this massive bulky clumsy scythe, I was thinking of something more like the hate scythe from warframe which to me didn’t seem like to much to ask to throw it . I asked for help and advice to make it balanced if I could, but the general ruling is it can’t be done so I just said I’m just going to use a glaive profile. It’s just a game dude.
Now that I've figured out that the brutal property isn't actually a property, but a fancy way of saying that the weapon's damage die is increased, I think it's almost balanced. Take the thrown property away from the base weapon and put it in a weapon mastery feat like the ones from Unearthed Arcana, and I'd allow it.
What said feat might look like:
You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls you make with a scythe.
When you use a scythe, it gains the thrown property with a range of 20/60. If you miss on a ranged attack roll with a magic scythe, it returns to your hands as though it were a boomerang.
As a bonus action on your turn, you can increase your reach with a scythe by 5 feet for the rest of the turn.
When you hit a creature with a scythe, you can force the target to succeed on a Dexterity saving throw against a DC of 7 + your attack bonus or be knocked prone. A creature two or more size categories larger or smaller than you has advantage on the saving throw. You cannot use this ability against a creature that doesn't have legs. Once you have used this ability, you can't do so again until you finish a short or long rest.
Ok. I don’t think I’m going to do it anymore but if I did I’d probably use the trident profile and change the damage type to slashing when not thrown. It would make more sense because it’s a smaller scythe so less damage and it wouldn’t be out of the question that it could be thrown.
I like Matthias' feat, but I'd opt for two changes.
The first ability (the +1), I'd make circumstantial - perhaps versus smaller targets than your size? It suits the scythe's flavor, I think. And I'd probably grant it to damage as well, with such a condition.
And the third one, the save with 8+ base attack gets pretty high. What's wrong with the standard 8 + proficiency modifier + ability modifier? :p
Unless that's what you mean by "base attack" - proficiency modifier if you're proficient with the weapon and the ability modifier of the ability you use to attack. If you don't add attack bonuses from magic and other traits, it's fine (but should probably be expanded in the description anyway, to adhere to common wording; otherwise this very feat's original wording adds +1 to the save DC as well).
It's probably simpler to find a magical Scythe with the "Thrown" (and returning) property, but this is the kind of feat I wouldn't blink twice about in my game table.
And the third one, the save with 8+ base attack gets pretty high. What's wrong with the standard 8 + proficiency modifier + ability modifier? :p
Unless that's what you mean by "base attack" - proficiency modifier if you're proficient with the weapon and the ability modifier of the ability you use to attack. If you don't add attack bonuses from magic and other traits, it's fine (but should probably be expanded in the description anyway, to adhere to common wording; otherwise this very feat's original wording adds +1 to the save DC as well).
I just like [attack bonus] better than [proficiency bonus + ability mod]. Thanks for pointing out that it should be 7 + attack bonus instead of 8 + attack bonus to account for the feat's +1, and thanks for the encouraging words.
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"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
Personally, I don't see "heavy" and "thrown" ever going together. If its so big you need the leverage size and weight of an adult to use it then it's too big to throw effectively.
I might allow it if the range was something like 0/20.
I also don't like "heavy" and "finesse" together, or "two-handed" and "finesse". To be finessable, a weapon has to be light , so that you can carefully and precisely manoeuvre it with careful wrist and arm control. If you need the leverage of two hands then it can't be moved precisely enough.
What about smaller, or custom scythe such as in dark souls 2? Obviously they would have to be extremely rare and magical , but could they be used for this scenario? What would the stats be?
I also don't like "heavy" and "finesse" together, or "two-handed" and "finesse". To be finessable, a weapon has to be light , so that you can carefully and precisely manoeuvre it with careful wrist and arm control. If you need the leverage of two hands then it can't be moved precisely enough.
While I agree on "heavy + finesse", I disagree on "two-handed + finesse". I immediately thought of something like a chain whip, or a three-section staff, which is long enough to require two hands to wield, but light and agile enough to warrant finesse.
None of that is relevant to the discussion, though.
Regarding the scythe... if you're deviating enough from a real scythe (it's light! it can be thrown!), why not call it a "glaive with a horizontal blade" (which needs a feat to be thrown), or a "spear with a blade" (so it does slashing rather than piercing)?
Im building a new Eldritch Knight for our campaign, and his back story includes him basically being a grim reaper type so I obviously want him to carry a scythe. I love watching scythe wielders in anime and other shows throw them around like buzzsaws and I thought the weapon bond from the EK would be a perfect aesthetic combo so I can throw it and then recall it. I used the custom weapon guide from the D&D Wiki to make the scythe profile,
Scythe:1d10 slashing damage. Heavy, finesse, two-handed.
(Martial melee weapon: Brutal, Heavy, Thrown 20/60 )
My DM loves the idea and has no problem with it, but I’m curious to know if other DMs would allow it if I ever want to carry him over to a new game with other people. I’m in the Army and I have to find a new group to play with every time I relocate and I want to know the general feeling on it before I invest a lot of time in a character I won’t get to use when I switch groups.
A 1d10 martial melee weapon with the finesse, heavy, and two-handed properties is balanced according to my formula (which says that the whip is just a hair too weak, every other martial weapon is balanced, and no one even tried to balance simple weapons). Add another property, like thrown, and you break it--but I would let you take a feat to, among other things, add the thrown property to scythes you use.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Is there a certain feat that’s let’s you throw weapons or do you have to make a custom feat? If it’s custom what would you make it? Or if I removed brutal and added finesse would that balance it?
What is this brutal property of which you speak?
And no, it would have to be a custom Scythe Mastery feat.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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I’m going off the custom weapons guide on the d&d wiki. https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Custom_Weapon_Design_(5e_Variant_Rule)
At my table, if someone says their character wields a scythe, I point them to the stats for a glaive and we call it a scythe.
I'm not into giving weapons new traits, especially not when those traits are contradictory in flavor - finesse weapons are meant to be light and agile, while heavy weapons are meant to be harsh and brutal - and only make sense insofar as it would make sense to give literally any property to any weapon because every weapon ever created can benefit from the wielder's hand-eye-coordination (finesse) and also be effective when using brute strength (heavy).
If it were a magical scythe that added all these additional things (finesse, thrown) like the dwarven thrower does for a warhammer, that'd be a different story.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
I agree, just use a glaive. Throwing would require a feat or magic item. Throwing a scythe with any effectiveness would be virtually impossible in real life.
Ok. My whole group and I are still pretty new to the game and we’re trying to figure everything out, that’s why I wanted to see what you guys had to say. I’ll just have to live without throwing my giant scythe around lol I’ll use the Glaive profile
If you want to throw it, the closest from official sources would be a Trident(1d6 piercing, thrown (20/60), versatile 1d8) which you would change the damage to slashing. You could also use the yklwa from throne of annihilation (1d8 piercing, thrown (10/30)) and change to slashing.
I would not, personally, allow a heavy, two-handed weapon to have the finesse trait due to several reasons. The first of which being it just makes no sense. It's heavy and requires two-hands to wield. The second is that it breaks the system paradigm where no finesse weapons are higher than d8.
Also, thrown? A scythe? Do you know how large and clumsy those things are?
Honestly, it sounds like you're just breaking the rules to give yourself whatever you want regardless of any system balance or verisimilitude. I mean, if your DM is fine with it, then whatever, go nuts, but this isn't something I'd allow at my table.
Relax man, I wasn’t trying to be cheesy. I wasn’t thinking of this massive bulky clumsy scythe, I was thinking of something more like the hate scythe from warframe which to me didn’t seem like to much to ask to throw it . I asked for help and advice to make it balanced if I could, but the general ruling is it can’t be done so I just said I’m just going to use a glaive profile. It’s just a game dude.
Now that I've figured out that the brutal property isn't actually a property, but a fancy way of saying that the weapon's damage die is increased, I think it's almost balanced. Take the thrown property away from the base weapon and put it in a weapon mastery feat like the ones from Unearthed Arcana, and I'd allow it.
What said feat might look like:
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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Ok. I don’t think I’m going to do it anymore but if I did I’d probably use the trident profile and change the damage type to slashing when not thrown. It would make more sense because it’s a smaller scythe so less damage and it wouldn’t be out of the question that it could be thrown.
I like Matthias' feat, but I'd opt for two changes.
The first ability (the +1), I'd make circumstantial - perhaps versus smaller targets than your size? It suits the scythe's flavor, I think. And I'd probably grant it to damage as well, with such a condition.
And the third one, the save with 8+ base attack gets pretty high. What's wrong with the standard 8 + proficiency modifier + ability modifier? :p
Unless that's what you mean by "base attack" - proficiency modifier if you're proficient with the weapon and the ability modifier of the ability you use to attack. If you don't add attack bonuses from magic and other traits, it's fine (but should probably be expanded in the description anyway, to adhere to common wording; otherwise this very feat's original wording adds +1 to the save DC as well).
It's probably simpler to find a magical Scythe with the "Thrown" (and returning) property, but this is the kind of feat I wouldn't blink twice about in my game table.
"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both" -- allegedly Benjamin Franklin
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The posts were going off-topic and had gotten a bit personal, so I have deleted a few.
Please avoid posts commenting on the motives of other users. :)
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Personally, I don't see "heavy" and "thrown" ever going together. If its so big you need the leverage size and weight of an adult to use it then it's too big to throw effectively.
I might allow it if the range was something like 0/20.
I also don't like "heavy" and "finesse" together, or "two-handed" and "finesse". To be finessable, a weapon has to be light , so that you can carefully and precisely manoeuvre it with careful wrist and arm control. If you need the leverage of two hands then it can't be moved precisely enough.
What about smaller, or custom scythe such as in dark souls 2? Obviously they would have to be extremely rare and magical , but could they be used for this scenario? What would the stats be?