This has been an interesting discussion, but I feel it is mostly one-way. That is forget the mythology of most drow being evil or good escapees from an evil society. These points make for great RP. I have one drow character whose little sister turned in their parents to the authorities for worshipping Eilistraee so the character fled to the surface world and is working as a Cleric of Eilistraee to return to try and free her family. I have a male drow who fled to the surface due to his sure knowledge that his lover would eventually tire of him and have him executed. Both have to find their way in a world that innately shuns them due to their people's reputation. I love RP both of these characters since there is so much to do with those conflicted backgrounds.
I realize the new lore does not negate either of the backgrounds of these two characters, but please answer me what interesting RP would result from a good or neutral drow from one of these newly discovered societies? Seems like you would be "just another elf". Enlighten me on the RP betterment by having a non-evil society background.
I think it's mostly that some people don't want to have their character's basis of morality to be surprising, or make it so it has to be exceptional for them to be good. Especially if they have to be speculated to be a 'revolution' or a 'Duel-Wielding Hero/Anti-Hero'. It can be very annoying when it's a surprise to not be fanatically devoted to a single goddess and everything else associated with drow.
And if you only want the drow that live in the Underdark? As many times as this has been said on this thread, you don't have to use the new rules.
The Circle of Hedgehogs Druid Beholder/Animated Armor Level -20 Bardof the OIADSB Cult, here are our rules.Sig.Also a sauce council member, but it's been dead for a while.
This has been an interesting discussion, but I feel it is mostly one-way. That is forget the mythology of most drow being evil or good escapees from an evil society. These points make for great RP. I have one drow character whose little sister turned in their parents to the authorities for worshipping Eilistraee so the character fled to the surface world and is working as a Cleric of Eilistraee to return to try and free her family. I have a male drow who fled to the surface due to his sure knowledge that his lover would eventually tire of him and have him executed. Both have to find their way in a world that innately shuns them due to their people's reputation. I love RP both of these characters since there is so much to do with those conflicted backgrounds.
I realize the new lore does not negate either of the backgrounds of these two characters, but please answer me what interesting RP would result from a good or neutral drow from one of these newly discovered societies? Seems like you would be "just another elf". Enlighten me on the RP betterment by having a non-evil society background.
There is so much to do with those conflicted backgrounds ... that you're doing it twice. You can nuance the individual in each, but the backstories are basically the same. Both are renegade refugees who need to endure great prejudice predicated on their broader cultures reputations, as fairly well defined back in The Crystal Shard. And that's fine, though between iteration 1 and 2, as a DM I'd probably ask for a different race choice if that's the reiterative template through which you create Drow.
Allowing the possibility of non-evil societies means the Drow of your background can certainly exist, but so don't a number of other reasons for Drow to exist and adventure that have nothing to do with being an outlier from an evil society. You know, sorta like every other race in the game. No need for Drow to have a de facto edgelord/special justification backstory, there can be many walks of life for Drow and the only limits come into how you articulate it into a viable party member.
I think you're also presuming that just because the possible culture of origins for Drow has been expanded, somehow surface dwellers are going to do a massive about face on their canonical attitude toward Drow. "Hey, you know those elves that come out of the underdark and raid us for slaves and stuff, you know how we hate them? I totally forgot that multi millenia ago there was some sort of original schism ... no, not the one between the Drow and the other elves, but amongst themselves I guess, anyway it turns out they have these other cultures that ain't so bad, they apparently don't like to interact with other societies but they aren't doing the killing and the slaving, so we're all good about Drow now, right?" I'm pretty sure Faerun's newspapers of records and taverns are not getting inundated with this new perspective. It's going to be ok, I'll bet my power 'stache on it.
This has been an interesting discussion, but I feel it is mostly one-way. That is forget the mythology of most drow being evil or good escapees from an evil society. These points make for great RP. I have one drow character whose little sister turned in their parents to the authorities for worshipping Eilistraee so the character fled to the surface world and is working as a Cleric of Eilistraee to return to try and free her family. I have a male drow who fled to the surface due to his sure knowledge that his lover would eventually tire of him and have him executed. Both have to find their way in a world that innately shuns them due to their people's reputation. I love RP both of these characters since there is so much to do with those conflicted backgrounds.
I realize the new lore does not negate either of the backgrounds of these two characters, but please answer me what interesting RP would result from a good or neutral drow from one of these newly discovered societies? Seems like you would be "just another elf". Enlighten me on the RP betterment by having a non-evil society background.
I think it's mostly that some people don't want to have their character's basis of morality to be surprising, or make it so it has to be exceptional for them to be good. Especially if they have to be speculated to be a 'revolution' or a 'Duel-Wielding Hero/Anit-Hero'. It can be very annoying when it's a surprise to not be fanatically devoted to a single goddess and everything else associated with drow.
And if you only want the drow that live in the Underdark? As many times as this has been said on this thread, you don't have to use the new rules.
Well, I appreciate your response, but you have not really answered my question - what benefit is there to having the different drow societies to have as your player's origin?
Drow can be good or evil and that has always been the case. Escaping from an evil society gives a great background. Your response that you can have any background would not really impress me as a DM - not that there is anything wrong with just playing the game without any of that. As a forever DM, I would encourage a character's race to have an affect on your background. Teiflings have something involving devils, dwarves sound Scottish and hate goblins, etc. Nothing forcing all of this, but I would hope for more development based upon factors such as race or if not just play a human. I know some players pick a race based on abilities, and previously due to stats, but I encourage my players not to think like that.
Well, I appreciate your response, but you have not really answered my question - what benefit is there to having the different drow societies to have as your player's origin?
Drow can be good or evil and that has always been the case. Escaping from an evil society gives a great background. Your response that you can have any background would not really impress me as a DM - not that there is anything wrong with just playing the game without any of that. As a forever DM, I would encourage a character's race to have an affect on your background. Teiflings have something involving devils, dwarves sound Scottish and hate goblins, etc. Nothing forcing all of this, but I would hope for more development based upon factors such as race or if not just play a human. I know some players pick a race based on abilities, and previously due to stats, but I encourage my players not to think like that.
I prefer Humans or Halflings: The ones less likely to have societal drama beyond what's found in nearly all societies.
I've yet to see anyone explain why these new Drow are necessary, and I'm of the same mind that they're not necessary... but I recently had a new thought smack my brain and stick contrary to my stance on the subject. (Never be afraid to question yourself.)
Does it need to be necessary? I'm of the mind that there doesn't need to be a reason to include new Drow. My only worry is that there is a reason and that it might not be genuine one, but until that's shown, I must force myself to assume that these new Drow are "just because".
I don't like the concept I've read about them story-wise. I have not (maybe not yet) found any way that their existence won't marginalize the strife that the former, known Drow society faced. I will likely not include them (at least for now), but my own misgivings do not have any bearing whether anyone else (meaning WotC and other tables) will include them.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
There have been good drow and good drow societies since at least 2e in the forgotten realms. There have been drow that followed gods other than Lolth, indeed the drow had their own pantheon callled the Dark Seldarine.
This "lore" (throwing out a ton of established lore, really) is stupid, because the drow always /had/ free will. A good drow from Menzoberranzan might be exceptional, but a good drow from another city may not be. That's what frustrating. This foolishness solved a problem that did not exist except in some people's mind.
All of this is stupid and un-necessary, because WOTC feels the need to virtue signal and because they don't know their own intellectual property. The people who complained, didn't know or understand the existing lore.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
This has been an interesting discussion, but I feel it is mostly one-way. That is forget the mythology of most drow being evil or good escapees from an evil society. These points make for great RP. I have one drow character whose little sister turned in their parents to the authorities for worshipping Eilistraee so the character fled to the surface world and is working as a Cleric of Eilistraee to return to try and free her family. I have a male drow who fled to the surface due to his sure knowledge that his lover would eventually tire of him and have him executed. Both have to find their way in a world that innately shuns them due to their people's reputation. I love RP both of these characters since there is so much to do with those conflicted backgrounds.
I realize the new lore does not negate either of the backgrounds of these two characters, but please answer me what interesting RP would result from a good or neutral drow from one of these newly discovered societies? Seems like you would be "just another elf". Enlighten me on the RP betterment by having a non-evil society background.
Hello Vazjena,
The broadening of options is itself of interest. When playing a good drow currently, you are locked into two general options for your backstory: having fled your way of life or having been abandoned as an infant and raised by surface dwellers. That is basically the only options you have in broad strokes. Having these new drow as options no longer regulates my character’s background to these two tropes. I can have a drow who loved his/her parents and was loved in return, and who has a nearly limitless list of options to choose from on why I am adventuring. ‘What interesting RP would result from a good or neutral drow from one of these newly discovered societies?’ The same interesting background that would be found in playing literally any other race can now be applied to the drow.
As you stated yourself, these new additions do not reduce the enjoyment you get from your characters and their pained backgrounds. I am glad that you enjoy these characters. Surely though, you enjoy playing races other than drow. Surely you can think of interesting RP that can result from these other races that do not have the same background. The new drow would not be ‘just another elf’ anymore than the current drow are. If that is your mindset, is there any distinction between the high elves and the wood elves? Based on your argument, you do not believe so. Is there any meaningful cultural difference between the hill dwarf and the mountain? 'Just another dwarf' according to your view, since they are not culturally evil. Only the duergar are 'unique' dwarves. If the drow are only unique because of Lolth’s hold on every aspect of their lives, then they are a fairly flat and lifeless race to play. I do not believe that is the case though and these new additions are evidence of that; I get to explore drow beyond Lolth’s deathgrip. Is it better than the current drow? Not necessarily because there are obviously many people who love the current drow. Better for me? Absolutely yes and now that I have a new option, I will not let anyone try to take it from me.
The new drow lore is harmless. Nothing from before has been expressly thrown out. This adds to it all. Play what you want.
Exactly. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to use it, and there's another option for those that do want to use it.
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The Circle of Hedgehogs Druid Beholder/Animated Armor Level -20 Bardof the OIADSB Cult, here are our rules.Sig.Also a sauce council member, but it's been dead for a while.
There have been good drow and good drow societies since at least 2e in the forgotten realms. There have been drow that followed gods other than Lolth, indeed the drow had their own pantheon callled the Dark Seldarine.
This "lore" (throwing out a ton of established lore, really) is stupid, because the drow always /had/ free will. A good drow from Menzoberranzan might be exceptional, but a good drow from another city may not be. That's what frustrating. This foolishness solved a problem that did not exist except in some people's mind.
All of this is stupid and un-necessary, because WOTC feels the need to virtue signal and because they don't know their own intellectual property. The people who complained, didn't know or understand the existing lore.
Amen.
Once again, Wizards is trying to put out too much content too quickly and hurting its franchise by weakening the old ethos. I loved using Elistraee dark elves and the Dark Seladrine as a counterpoint to the "regular" Menzo drow. While I don't mind expanding the race's history (in a smart way), I feel they could have expanded much more on the existing non-Lloth drow first.
There have been good drow and good drow societies since at least 2e in the forgotten realms. There have been drow that followed gods other than Lolth, indeed the drow had their own pantheon callled the Dark Seldarine.
This "lore" (throwing out a ton of established lore, really) is stupid, because the drow always /had/ free will. A good drow from Menzoberranzan might be exceptional, but a good drow from another city may not be. That's what frustrating. This foolishness solved a problem that did not exist except in some people's mind.
All of this is stupid and un-necessary, because WOTC feels the need to virtue signal and because they don't know their own intellectual property. The people who complained, didn't know or understand the existing lore.
Amen.
Once again, Wizards is trying to put out too much content too quickly and hurting its franchise by weakening the old ethos. I loved using Elistraee dark elves and the Dark Seladrine as a counterpoint to the "regular" Menzo drow. While I don't mind expanding the race's history (in a smart way), I feel they could have expanded much more on the existing non-Lloth drow first.
I can't see how it would be harmful in any way. Different people have different opinions. If you want, you can still use the old lore. There is no reason why you can't. But some people might want an alternate way to be able to play their characters and have more open options and lore. Also, how is it hurting their franchise?
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The Circle of Hedgehogs Druid Beholder/Animated Armor Level -20 Bardof the OIADSB Cult, here are our rules.Sig.Also a sauce council member, but it's been dead for a while.
Y'know the best thing about D&D? Everyone can play it their way. I know I will DM the previous lore, including having stat modifiers associated with the various races because I believe you need that variation to make things interesting and believable from a fantasy perspective. People that do not want to play by my rules, in my world, do not have to play with me. Conversely, when I am in someone else's world I will respect the boundaries they set and abide by those. Life is too short for me to keep expending words on people who are set in their minds the way they want things to be. Just go about your business, nothing really more to say here.
All of this is stupid and un-necessary, because WOTC feels the need to virtue signal and because they don't know their own intellectual property. The people who complained, didn't know or understand the existing lore.
While I suspect this is true, I can't prove it. So, I have little choice but to accept (for now at least) that the addition of the new Drow are for genuine reasons.
As many keep typing, it's not like I am being forced to include them. From what I was able to gather, it looks like an "out" is built into the new Drow with their extreme seclusion for players to simply not have anyone encounter them at all in a campaign, even with knowledge of them.
I'm also of the mind of "try it before you dislike it". While I'm not ready to try it (and it could be never or it could be soon), it would be unfair for me to say that it's bad without experiencing it first-hand.
I have my own concerns, but until something comes to light to actually warrant my concerns, I must set them aside and (tentatively) trust WotC knows what it's doing.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
All of this is stupid and un-necessary, because WOTC feels the need to virtue signal and because they don't know their own intellectual property. The people who complained, didn't know or understand the existing lore.
While I suspect this is true, I can't prove it. So, I have little choice but to accept (for now at least) that the addition of the new Drow are for genuine reasons.
As many keep typing, it's not like I am being forced to include them. From what I was able to gather, it looks like an "out" is built into the new Drow with their extreme seclusion for players to simply not have anyone encounter them at all in a campaign, even with knowledge of them.
I'm also of the mind of "try it before you dislike it". While I'm not ready to try it (and it could be never or it could be soon), it would be unfair for me to say that it's bad without experiencing it first-hand.
I have my own concerns, but until something comes to light to actually warrant my concerns, I must set them aside and (tentatively) trust WotC knows what it's doing.
What I would ask is, what is there to try? Good drow? Been playing them literally for years...since 2e when I learned what drow were. I didn't need some stupid ice enclave to come up with a story as to why my drow wasn't evil. If I were lazy, I could always pick a follower of Eilistraee, a good drow goddess that goes back to at /least/ 2e and possibly 1e. This "new" lore solves a problem that didn't exist.
Hell, these "new" drow are pretty much what my very first drow character was supposed to be. Just an elf, but with black skin and white hair. So what does this lore "give" me that I didn't have when I tried to make my first dark elf ranger in 1995? So, I say again...what is there to try? What problem does this solve?
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
It's not about solving a problem. It's about presenting new options and new ideas. Exandria has drow that still live in their Underdark and follow Lolth, and it has the drow of the Krynn Dynasty. They're both drow, but they're wildly different factions.
If you don't want to use them, then fine. Don't. No one can force you. That doesn't mean you need to throw a tantrum over them just existing.
As I stated in an earlier post: Does it have to be necessary? Does it need to solve a problem?
The only answer I can honestly give is that it doesn't need to be necessary to be part of D&D.
Here's a thought: What's the alternative?
Do I: A) let this ruin my experience and choose to leave D&D? or B) work with it and continue to enjoy D&D?
I choose B.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
The dark elves of Krynn aren't drow, FYI. The'yre more akin to Tolkein's dark elves.
I'm opposed to any retcons that don't solve problems. It's the recon that's problematic because rich lore is destroyed for no reason.
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
I wasn't talking about Dragonlance, I was talking about the Kryn Dynasty from Explorer's Guide to Wildemount (Exandria). Sorry, I had a typo initially. It's Kryn with just one "n". They're still drow who came to reject Lolth.
Part of having a conversation is listening to other people. Otherwise, you're just talking past them.
The dark elves of Krynn aren't drow, FYI. The'yre more akin to Tolkein's dark elves.
I'm opposed to any retcons that don't solve problems. It's the recon that's problematic because rich lore is destroyed for no reason.
Opposition noted.
So... now what? What do you do with this? Where does this lead?
I oppose the story of these new Drow, but for me, nothing changes if I simply don't include it. If it's not necessary, then it's also not necessary for me to use it. It's not going to ruin D&D for me. Things that I do not like do not have to be included in my games just as well as I can include optional rules and more (as long as I'm up-front about it and don't suddenly spring surprises in rules on players).
I don't oppose their existence as a possibility in D&D for other players unless something convinces me that the reasons were for topics that are not allowed to be discussed in these forums, which I feel should equally be kept out of dictating D&D's future. My suspicions are not enough.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
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I think it's mostly that some people don't want to have their character's basis of morality to be surprising, or make it so it has to be exceptional for them to be good. Especially if they have to be speculated to be a 'revolution' or a 'Duel-Wielding Hero/Anti-Hero'. It can be very annoying when it's a surprise to not be fanatically devoted to a single goddess and everything else associated with drow.
And if you only want the drow that live in the Underdark? As many times as this has been said on this thread, you don't have to use the new rules.
The Circle of Hedgehogs Druid Beholder/Animated Armor Level -20 Bard of the OIADSB Cult, here are our rules. Sig. Also a sauce council member, but it's been dead for a while.
There is so much to do with those conflicted backgrounds ... that you're doing it twice. You can nuance the individual in each, but the backstories are basically the same. Both are renegade refugees who need to endure great prejudice predicated on their broader cultures reputations, as fairly well defined back in The Crystal Shard. And that's fine, though between iteration 1 and 2, as a DM I'd probably ask for a different race choice if that's the reiterative template through which you create Drow.
Allowing the possibility of non-evil societies means the Drow of your background can certainly exist, but so don't a number of other reasons for Drow to exist and adventure that have nothing to do with being an outlier from an evil society. You know, sorta like every other race in the game. No need for Drow to have a de facto edgelord/special justification backstory, there can be many walks of life for Drow and the only limits come into how you articulate it into a viable party member.
I think you're also presuming that just because the possible culture of origins for Drow has been expanded, somehow surface dwellers are going to do a massive about face on their canonical attitude toward Drow. "Hey, you know those elves that come out of the underdark and raid us for slaves and stuff, you know how we hate them? I totally forgot that multi millenia ago there was some sort of original schism ... no, not the one between the Drow and the other elves, but amongst themselves I guess, anyway it turns out they have these other cultures that ain't so bad, they apparently don't like to interact with other societies but they aren't doing the killing and the slaving, so we're all good about Drow now, right?" I'm pretty sure Faerun's newspapers of records and taverns are not getting inundated with this new perspective. It's going to be ok, I'll bet my power 'stache on it.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I agree with you.
Well, I appreciate your response, but you have not really answered my question - what benefit is there to having the different drow societies to have as your player's origin?
Drow can be good or evil and that has always been the case. Escaping from an evil society gives a great background. Your response that you can have any background would not really impress me as a DM - not that there is anything wrong with just playing the game without any of that. As a forever DM, I would encourage a character's race to have an affect on your background. Teiflings have something involving devils, dwarves sound Scottish and hate goblins, etc. Nothing forcing all of this, but I would hope for more development based upon factors such as race or if not just play a human. I know some players pick a race based on abilities, and previously due to stats, but I encourage my players not to think like that.
I prefer Humans or Halflings: The ones less likely to have societal drama beyond what's found in nearly all societies.
I've yet to see anyone explain why these new Drow are necessary, and I'm of the same mind that they're not necessary... but I recently had a new thought smack my brain and stick contrary to my stance on the subject. (Never be afraid to question yourself.)
Does it need to be necessary? I'm of the mind that there doesn't need to be a reason to include new Drow. My only worry is that there is a reason and that it might not be genuine one, but until that's shown, I must force myself to assume that these new Drow are "just because".
I don't like the concept I've read about them story-wise. I have not (maybe not yet) found any way that their existence won't marginalize the strife that the former, known Drow society faced. I will likely not include them (at least for now), but my own misgivings do not have any bearing whether anyone else (meaning WotC and other tables) will include them.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
There have been good drow and good drow societies since at least 2e in the forgotten realms. There have been drow that followed gods other than Lolth, indeed the drow had their own pantheon callled the Dark Seldarine.
This "lore" (throwing out a ton of established lore, really) is stupid, because the drow always /had/ free will. A good drow from Menzoberranzan might be exceptional, but a good drow from another city may not be. That's what frustrating. This foolishness solved a problem that did not exist except in some people's mind.
All of this is stupid and un-necessary, because WOTC feels the need to virtue signal and because they don't know their own intellectual property. The people who complained, didn't know or understand the existing lore.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Hello Vazjena,
The broadening of options is itself of interest. When playing a good drow currently, you are locked into two general options for your backstory: having fled your way of life or having been abandoned as an infant and raised by surface dwellers. That is basically the only options you have in broad strokes. Having these new drow as options no longer regulates my character’s background to these two tropes. I can have a drow who loved his/her parents and was loved in return, and who has a nearly limitless list of options to choose from on why I am adventuring. ‘What interesting RP would result from a good or neutral drow from one of these newly discovered societies?’ The same interesting background that would be found in playing literally any other race can now be applied to the drow.
As you stated yourself, these new additions do not reduce the enjoyment you get from your characters and their pained backgrounds. I am glad that you enjoy these characters. Surely though, you enjoy playing races other than drow. Surely you can think of interesting RP that can result from these other races that do not have the same background. The new drow would not be ‘just another elf’ anymore than the current drow are. If that is your mindset, is there any distinction between the high elves and the wood elves? Based on your argument, you do not believe so. Is there any meaningful cultural difference between the hill dwarf and the mountain? 'Just another dwarf' according to your view, since they are not culturally evil. Only the duergar are 'unique' dwarves. If the drow are only unique because of Lolth’s hold on every aspect of their lives, then they are a fairly flat and lifeless race to play. I do not believe that is the case though and these new additions are evidence of that; I get to explore drow beyond Lolth’s deathgrip. Is it better than the current drow? Not necessarily because there are obviously many people who love the current drow. Better for me? Absolutely yes and now that I have a new option, I will not let anyone try to take it from me.
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Is this still going on?
The new drow lore is harmless. Nothing from before has been expressly thrown out. This adds to it all. Play what you want.
Exactly. If you don't want to use it, you don't have to use it, and there's another option for those that do want to use it.
The Circle of Hedgehogs Druid Beholder/Animated Armor Level -20 Bard of the OIADSB Cult, here are our rules. Sig. Also a sauce council member, but it's been dead for a while.
Amen.
Once again, Wizards is trying to put out too much content too quickly and hurting its franchise by weakening the old ethos. I loved using Elistraee dark elves and the Dark Seladrine as a counterpoint to the "regular" Menzo drow. While I don't mind expanding the race's history (in a smart way), I feel they could have expanded much more on the existing non-Lloth drow first.
I can't see how it would be harmful in any way. Different people have different opinions. If you want, you can still use the old lore. There is no reason why you can't. But some people might want an alternate way to be able to play their characters and have more open options and lore. Also, how is it hurting their franchise?
The Circle of Hedgehogs Druid Beholder/Animated Armor Level -20 Bard of the OIADSB Cult, here are our rules. Sig. Also a sauce council member, but it's been dead for a while.
Y'know the best thing about D&D? Everyone can play it their way. I know I will DM the previous lore, including having stat modifiers associated with the various races because I believe you need that variation to make things interesting and believable from a fantasy perspective. People that do not want to play by my rules, in my world, do not have to play with me. Conversely, when I am in someone else's world I will respect the boundaries they set and abide by those. Life is too short for me to keep expending words on people who are set in their minds the way they want things to be. Just go about your business, nothing really more to say here.
While I suspect this is true, I can't prove it. So, I have little choice but to accept (for now at least) that the addition of the new Drow are for genuine reasons.
As many keep typing, it's not like I am being forced to include them. From what I was able to gather, it looks like an "out" is built into the new Drow with their extreme seclusion for players to simply not have anyone encounter them at all in a campaign, even with knowledge of them.
I'm also of the mind of "try it before you dislike it". While I'm not ready to try it (and it could be never or it could be soon), it would be unfair for me to say that it's bad without experiencing it first-hand.
I have my own concerns, but until something comes to light to actually warrant my concerns, I must set them aside and (tentatively) trust WotC knows what it's doing.
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My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
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“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
What I would ask is, what is there to try? Good drow? Been playing them literally for years...since 2e when I learned what drow were. I didn't need some stupid ice enclave to come up with a story as to why my drow wasn't evil. If I were lazy, I could always pick a follower of Eilistraee, a good drow goddess that goes back to at /least/ 2e and possibly 1e. This "new" lore solves a problem that didn't exist.
Hell, these "new" drow are pretty much what my very first drow character was supposed to be. Just an elf, but with black skin and white hair. So what does this lore "give" me that I didn't have when I tried to make my first dark elf ranger in 1995? So, I say again...what is there to try? What problem does this solve?
That's why it's bad. It's completely un-necessary.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
It's not about solving a problem. It's about presenting new options and new ideas. Exandria has drow that still live in their Underdark and follow Lolth, and it has the drow of the Krynn Dynasty. They're both drow, but they're wildly different factions.
If you don't want to use them, then fine. Don't. No one can force you. That doesn't mean you need to throw a tantrum over them just existing.
As I stated in an earlier post: Does it have to be necessary? Does it need to solve a problem?
The only answer I can honestly give is that it doesn't need to be necessary to be part of D&D.
Here's a thought:
What's the alternative?
Do I: A) let this ruin my experience and choose to leave D&D? or B) work with it and continue to enjoy D&D?
I choose B.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
The dark elves of Krynn aren't drow, FYI. The'yre more akin to Tolkein's dark elves.
I'm opposed to any retcons that don't solve problems. It's the recon that's problematic because rich lore is destroyed for no reason.
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
There is nothing about the existing drow that is necessary, crzyhawk. Does that mean that it is a poor addition to D&D as well?
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I wasn't talking about Dragonlance, I was talking about the Kryn Dynasty from Explorer's Guide to Wildemount (Exandria). Sorry, I had a typo initially. It's Kryn with just one "n". They're still drow who came to reject Lolth.
Part of having a conversation is listening to other people. Otherwise, you're just talking past them.
Opposition noted.
So... now what? What do you do with this? Where does this lead?
I oppose the story of these new Drow, but for me, nothing changes if I simply don't include it. If it's not necessary, then it's also not necessary for me to use it. It's not going to ruin D&D for me. Things that I do not like do not have to be included in my games just as well as I can include optional rules and more (as long as I'm up-front about it and don't suddenly spring surprises in rules on players).
I don't oppose their existence as a possibility in D&D for other players unless something convinces me that the reasons were for topics that are not allowed to be discussed in these forums, which I feel should equally be kept out of dictating D&D's future. My suspicions are not enough.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.