How substantive and lofty should a character goal be? You're ideally supposed to have one ( a goal, at least one), but could what your character's goal is, be "too much", risk making it all about your character, be too difficult or time consuming, or impart too much importance or greatness onto your character (kind of the goal equivalent of being too much of a badass in your backstory for a low level character)? I think I might be having trouble finding the Goldie Locks place with scope of the goal for my characer and then also finding the right balance between too silly, trivial, and inconsequential, and too substantive and serious and take-y over-y, perhaps just being in danger of eclipsing other players/characters goals and stuff they have going on and fun . . and then also possibly eclipsing what the DM has going on.
What are some example of some good goals for your character to have that won't create the sort of problems that aren't wanted.
It really depends on the campaign, and ideally is something you'll coordinate with the DM. Service to a cause is an easy ongoing one; a roaming paladin or similar figure looking for the next threat to face or a Harper agent going on adventures on their own initiative between assignments are some examples of easy open-ended causes that provide hooks while also keeping a character open to most plots in general. Money is rarely a good one unless you know you're doing a relatively brief campaign that will wrap up after you've killed the BBEG and divided up his loot, as the loot tables clock in well above what a person needs to at least take a couple years off and coast at a comfortable lifestyle. If you're picking a more focused "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." objective as a character's driving personal goal, then you'll also want an explanation for why they're adventuring that holds up even after that plot point has been resolved- for instance "There's not much money in the revenge business".
There are too many variables to consider to answer that question. It really all comes down to the specific table, the campaign, the PC, and the player, and even the DM.
I would err on the side of less detail in a character's backstory as a courtesy to the DM. It's one thing to have defined a raison d'etre for the character to be an adventurer. But a specific incomplete goal may step on the DM's toes unless you have their buy-in. Also, the more sophisticated the goal, the more disappointed you will be when the TPK comes!
There are too many variables to consider to answer that question. It really all comes down to the specific table, the campaign, the PC, and the player, and even the DM.
You're doing the internet wrong, Sposta. This is a dimension of snap judgements and excessive unfounded confidence.
There are too many variables to consider to answer that question. It really all comes down to the specific table, the campaign, the PC, and the player, and even the DM.
You're doing the internet wrong, Sposta. This is a dimension of snap judgements and excessive unfounded confidence.
🤯 🅾️💩‼️ Now you tell me. I’ve been doing it wrong for over 40 years now then. Sonofa…!
There are too many variables to consider to answer that question. It really all comes down to the specific table, the campaign, the PC, and the player, and even the DM.
I have to agree with this (even though, apparently, it’s wrong🤷♂️).
Anything can work pretty well, I want money, I want to save my hometown from the bandits, I’m on a mission from god, I want revenge, I’m bored.
I think the real trick, and what can show character growth, is that motivation changing over time. You start out wanting money, but you realize the BBEG needs to be stopped; you start out wanting to fight the bandits, but you realize they’re actually freedom fighters and you join them; you start out on a mission from god, but your faith is shaken and you realize the god is mistaken in what they want.
In short, start small, and let your motivation change and grow bigger as the character gets out into the wider world.
Paladins, Druids and clerics could easily have lofty goals. Their oaths and deities tend to provide such goals automatically. Warlocks can be in that group too given their sponsors. For most other classes the reasons your out adventuring tend to be a lot less major and lofty. Wizards tend to be out to learn, find, or test new magic. Rangers tend to be driven by wanderlust. Fighters are often in it for money, loot, revenge, or simply because it is what they do. I could go on but you get the idea.
To reiterate on the money part a little after seeing some other responses jogged something loose, adventuring with the general objective to "make your fortune" or somesuch is viable, but saving up for X target item is hard to make stick; anything a 1st tier character could reasonably expect to save up to is likely to be a minor expensive by the end of second tier.
My current character Shaxina Lula, currently a level 10 Eladrin Bladesong Wizard is attempting to create her own card for a Deck Of Many Things. It is a life goal and the process should take many campaigns, I am guessing she will not achieve this until near retirement. She has acquired a partial deck to study alongside her mentor and is attempting to reverse engineer the process of creating a card.
Favorite Movie quote: "Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most. And that is the indifference of good men."
Favorite Book Character: Logen Ninefingers, AKA The Bloody Nine
Favorite Me Quote: "Life is nothing more than a sexually transmitted terminal disease."
I would err on the side of less detail in a character's backstory as a courtesy to the DM. It's one thing to have defined a raison d'etre for the character to be an adventurer. But a specific incomplete goal may step on the DM's toes unless you have their buy-in. Also, the more sophisticated the goal, the more disappointed you will be when the TPK comes!
What about just having a stated reason for being an adventurer, instead of a goal that is like a problem to be solved or a person or thing to be found or rescued, or something concrete to be accomplished? The two aren't necessarily the same thing. Is just having a reason to be an adventurer, good enough? i guess a goal could be added later, perhaps with input from the DM.
It really depends heavily on the campaigh's level expectation.
Me personally, I tend to make that goal related to the character's own growth.
My first PC, Daphne, had the goal of 'become strong enough the abusive witch that created me can't hurt me anymore', which she definitely did, but in the process also gained moral and mental strength.
My second main PC, Acias, had the goal of 'finding out who I really am and why a god chose me as his first Cleric in 300+ years'. IE, her goal was self-discovery. When she accomplished that, her goal shifted to 'become Krynn's first therapist'.
My upcoming PC for my table's Eve of Ruin campaign, Rafflesia, has no real goal intially except 'protect children from the Cult of Vecna and Vecna himself', but upon learning of the Rod of Seven Parts, regains some memories from prior to becoming abducted to the Feywild as a child and trying to find out both her lost memories and assembling the rod isn't just the party's objective, but kinda a personal one for her because she has a memory of the story from before she lost her memories and it's her only real connection to that time. As she otherwise has no clue what happened to her prior to her kidnapping, and what she previously believed was true (being an orphan) was a lie she was told.
How substantive and lofty a character's goal should be depends on the character. I have a warforged inquisitive rogue who was rebuilt from a nearly dead human's remains. His goal is to repay House Cannaith for that favor--which to my mind is a fairly limited goal, since it's a clear political allegiance absent moral concerns. I have a human glamour bard whose grandmother died of cancer. Her goal is to make the gods pay for that trauma--which to my mind is a loftier goal since it stems from moral qualms. Since we're telling fantastic stories, I don't know that there can be a goal which is "too much." There can be playstyles that are less constructive, yet I'd say that's about when a goal meets play and becomes character words and actions. The Goldilocks zone is when your character's goal creates strong motivations that can be expressed through your character's words and actions. As others have pointed out, that's a relationship between the style of a game and your style of play. It's a good reason to ask questions during session zero. "Will we be saving the world? Will we need to get paid? Will there be an important NPC whom we need a relationship with?" That sort of thing...
Examples of goals I've used are, "Since no one can be loved by all, it's better to be feared than hated;" "Find the wizard who stole my memories [for a bit of context the character is a simulacrum who doesn't yet know he's a simulacrum];" "Rescue Eru Ogo from imprisonment;" "Learn about the giants who attacked us;" "Enjoy life as much as I can before returning to the marriage altar that I left accidentally on account of unplanned planeshopping;" "Become Strahd von Zarovich's side-piece;" "Swear as much as possible;" "Avoid being forcibly returned to the feywild;" "Embody the role of sexy librarian;" "Win glory;" "Ensure that Faerun still exists tomorrow;" "Reclaim my kingship that was stolen by psionic elitists;" "Escape the drow prison at the start of Out of the Abyss;" and "Oppose evil."
My current character Shaxina Lula, currently a level 10 Eladrin Bladesong Wizard is attempting to create her own card for a Deck Of Many Things. It is a life goal and the process should take many campaigns, I am guessing she will not achieve this until near retirement. She has acquired a partial deck to study alongside her mentor and is attempting to reverse engineer the process of creating a card.
That's so cool (in an "i wish I had thought of it" way)! i wouldn't mind knowing more about iti like does the whole party do stuff, in sessions to help further this goal, or is it more of a downtime activity (or something else)?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
How substantive and lofty should a character goal be? You're ideally supposed to have one ( a goal, at least one), but could what your character's goal is, be "too much", risk making it all about your character, be too difficult or time consuming, or impart too much importance or greatness onto your character (kind of the goal equivalent of being too much of a badass in your backstory for a low level character)? I think I might be having trouble finding the Goldie Locks place with scope of the goal for my characer and then also finding the right balance between too silly, trivial, and inconsequential, and too substantive and serious and take-y over-y, perhaps just being in danger of eclipsing other players/characters goals and stuff they have going on and fun . . and then also possibly eclipsing what the DM has going on.
What are some example of some good goals for your character to have that won't create the sort of problems that aren't wanted.
It really depends on the campaign, and ideally is something you'll coordinate with the DM. Service to a cause is an easy ongoing one; a roaming paladin or similar figure looking for the next threat to face or a Harper agent going on adventures on their own initiative between assignments are some examples of easy open-ended causes that provide hooks while also keeping a character open to most plots in general. Money is rarely a good one unless you know you're doing a relatively brief campaign that will wrap up after you've killed the BBEG and divided up his loot, as the loot tables clock in well above what a person needs to at least take a couple years off and coast at a comfortable lifestyle. If you're picking a more focused "Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." objective as a character's driving personal goal, then you'll also want an explanation for why they're adventuring that holds up even after that plot point has been resolved- for instance "There's not much money in the revenge business".
There are too many variables to consider to answer that question. It really all comes down to the specific table, the campaign, the PC, and the player, and even the DM.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I would err on the side of less detail in a character's backstory as a courtesy to the DM. It's one thing to have defined a raison d'etre for the character to be an adventurer. But a specific incomplete goal may step on the DM's toes unless you have their buy-in. Also, the more sophisticated the goal, the more disappointed you will be when the TPK comes!
You're doing the internet wrong, Sposta. This is a dimension of snap judgements and excessive unfounded confidence.
🤯 🅾️💩‼️ Now you tell me. I’ve been doing it wrong for over 40 years now then. Sonofa…!
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I have to agree with this (even though, apparently, it’s wrong🤷♂️).
Anything can work pretty well, I want money, I want to save my hometown from the bandits, I’m on a mission from god, I want revenge, I’m bored.
I think the real trick, and what can show character growth, is that motivation changing over time. You start out wanting money, but you realize the BBEG needs to be stopped; you start out wanting to fight the bandits, but you realize they’re actually freedom fighters and you join them; you start out on a mission from god, but your faith is shaken and you realize the god is mistaken in what they want.
In short, start small, and let your motivation change and grow bigger as the character gets out into the wider world.
Paladins, Druids and clerics could easily have lofty goals. Their oaths and deities tend to provide such goals automatically. Warlocks can be in that group too given their sponsors. For most other classes the reasons your out adventuring tend to be a lot less major and lofty. Wizards tend to be out to learn, find, or test new magic. Rangers tend to be driven by wanderlust. Fighters are often in it for money, loot, revenge, or simply because it is what they do. I could go on but you get the idea.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
To reiterate on the money part a little after seeing some other responses jogged something loose, adventuring with the general objective to "make your fortune" or somesuch is viable, but saving up for X target item is hard to make stick; anything a 1st tier character could reasonably expect to save up to is likely to be a minor expensive by the end of second tier.
My current character Shaxina Lula, currently a level 10 Eladrin Bladesong Wizard is attempting to create her own card for a Deck Of Many Things. It is a life goal and the process should take many campaigns, I am guessing she will not achieve this until near retirement. She has acquired a partial deck to study alongside her mentor and is attempting to reverse engineer the process of creating a card.
Favorite Movie quote:
"Now, we must all fear evil men. But there is another kind of evil which we must fear most. And that is the indifference of good men."
Favorite Book Character:
Logen Ninefingers, AKA The Bloody Nine
Favorite Me Quote:
"Life is nothing more than a sexually transmitted terminal disease."
What about just having a stated reason for being an adventurer, instead of a goal that is like a problem to be solved or a person or thing to be found or rescued, or something concrete to be accomplished? The two aren't necessarily the same thing. Is just having a reason to be an adventurer, good enough? i guess a goal could be added later, perhaps with input from the DM.
It really depends heavily on the campaigh's level expectation.
Me personally, I tend to make that goal related to the character's own growth.
My first PC, Daphne, had the goal of 'become strong enough the abusive witch that created me can't hurt me anymore', which she definitely did, but in the process also gained moral and mental strength.
My second main PC, Acias, had the goal of 'finding out who I really am and why a god chose me as his first Cleric in 300+ years'. IE, her goal was self-discovery. When she accomplished that, her goal shifted to 'become Krynn's first therapist'.
My upcoming PC for my table's Eve of Ruin campaign, Rafflesia, has no real goal intially except 'protect children from the Cult of Vecna and Vecna himself', but upon learning of the Rod of Seven Parts, regains some memories from prior to becoming abducted to the Feywild as a child and trying to find out both her lost memories and assembling the rod isn't just the party's objective, but kinda a personal one for her because she has a memory of the story from before she lost her memories and it's her only real connection to that time. As she otherwise has no clue what happened to her prior to her kidnapping, and what she previously believed was true (being an orphan) was a lie she was told.
How substantive and lofty a character's goal should be depends on the character. I have a warforged inquisitive rogue who was rebuilt from a nearly dead human's remains. His goal is to repay House Cannaith for that favor--which to my mind is a fairly limited goal, since it's a clear political allegiance absent moral concerns. I have a human glamour bard whose grandmother died of cancer. Her goal is to make the gods pay for that trauma--which to my mind is a loftier goal since it stems from moral qualms. Since we're telling fantastic stories, I don't know that there can be a goal which is "too much." There can be playstyles that are less constructive, yet I'd say that's about when a goal meets play and becomes character words and actions. The Goldilocks zone is when your character's goal creates strong motivations that can be expressed through your character's words and actions. As others have pointed out, that's a relationship between the style of a game and your style of play. It's a good reason to ask questions during session zero. "Will we be saving the world? Will we need to get paid? Will there be an important NPC whom we need a relationship with?" That sort of thing...
Examples of goals I've used are, "Since no one can be loved by all, it's better to be feared than hated;" "Find the wizard who stole my memories [for a bit of context the character is a simulacrum who doesn't yet know he's a simulacrum];" "Rescue Eru Ogo from imprisonment;" "Learn about the giants who attacked us;" "Enjoy life as much as I can before returning to the marriage altar that I left accidentally on account of unplanned planeshopping;" "Become Strahd von Zarovich's side-piece;" "Swear as much as possible;" "Avoid being forcibly returned to the feywild;" "Embody the role of sexy librarian;" "Win glory;" "Ensure that Faerun still exists tomorrow;" "Reclaim my kingship that was stolen by psionic elitists;" "Escape the drow prison at the start of Out of the Abyss;" and "Oppose evil."
That's so cool (in an "i wish I had thought of it" way)! i wouldn't mind knowing more about iti like does the whole party do stuff, in sessions to help further this goal, or is it more of a downtime activity (or something else)?