Which party role in 5e would benefit a party most by taking their turn fast?
Is it the tanky martials, like the Barbarian, Fighter or Paladin, allowing them to exert pressure early on, unleashing a hail of attacks via Action Surge or making sure the party tank is menacing front-and-centre?
Perhaps it's the support Bards, Clerics and Artificers who would best go first, allowing them to dish out buffs to casters and martials who can then better cast their spells/make their attacks?
Could it be ranged specialists and skirmishers like the Monk, Ranger, Rogue and Warlock, providing the early opportunity for them to harass the enemy's backlines?
Might it be the controller and blaster casters, such as Druid, Sorcerer and Wizard, who unleash damage-dealing, terrain-morphing, enemy-debuffing or mind-controlling spells?
My personal answer here would be #4, as I know that full casters can bring some devastating or debilitating spells to bear that can change the outcome of an encounter.
The second question is now more specific and the answers relate to my current campaign's party composition:
Which character would it benefit our lvl 13 party (listed below) most for them to take their turn earliest/before the enemy?
Hobgoblin - Artificer (Battlesmith) (me)
Kalashtar - Paladin (Oath of Vengeance)
Half-Orc - Fighter (Champion)
Half-Elf - Rogue (Arcane Trickster)
Drow -Wizard (Chronurgy) / Fighter (Echo Knight) (I believe they're more Fighter than Wizard)
Reborn - Bard (Glamour) / Warlock (?) (I believe they're more Bard then Warlock)
I ask because I'm making an Artificer as a backup to replace my current character and intend to craft the Helm of Awareness for someone in the party, which grants them advantage on Initial rolls.
Helm of Awareness
Prerequisite: 10th-level artificer Item: A helmet (requires attunement)
While wearing this helmet, a creature has advantage on initiative rolls. In addition, the wearer can’t be surprised, provided it isn’t incapacitated.
My instinct for the second question here would say #6, the Bard, as they would be closest we have to a full-caster (I don't think the Wizard has that many levels in Wizard).
First question: probably controllers, in my opinion. A front-liner can burn their resources to burst down the biggest, toughest enemy at the start, but a controller with a single well-placed spell can divide the encounter into smaller, more manageable encounters that require fewer resources in the first place.
Second question: depends on what roles you party members fill. While class/subclass can give a general idea, more information would be helpful. Ultimately it comes down to who can swing the battle in the party's favor the most.
The chronurgist probably has the best chance of going first already, between adding their intelligence to initiative and likely having an extra 1d8 from gift of alacrity, so they don't need much more than that. I would suggest giving the helm to someone else in that case. But like I said, more information about the roles each party member fills will help with further guidance.
There's not really a right answer here, even when you factor in party tactics. Obviously AOE casters can do their thing without worrying about party members when they go first. But they also tend to be the squishiest targets, and if the enemy goes before the front line they can be cut down in a hurry. There are two factors here - going before your teammates and going before the monsters. Casters tend to want to go before their teammates, but they also very much want their protection to go before the monsters.
This can also vary a lot depending on how your encounters tend to be set up and how they play out. Do monsters usually being in a tight formation and fan out? Do the players get much of a say in how spread out they are at the start? Do you have melee engagement on the first round or do you start pretty far apart? There are just a lot of factors here and then you've got the d20 in there to ensure that nothing is reliable.
Honestly the way I'd do it is to just ask the players. If there's a player who enjoys going earlier, they can have it. Players may have proactive/reactive mindsets independent of their class choices. My friend who always plays wizards actually is happiest going last so he can assess the situation and react accordingly - "toolbox" wizards can be different than blaster wizards.
Group makeup and enemy composition make a difference, as well. In our main group, we're a Barbarian, Fighter, Monk and Cleric. As the Monk, I prefer to be last, in many cases, to allow the battlefield to set up and me to best determine what I am going to do. If our Cleric was a blasty type, or controller, maybe wanting her first would make sense, but as it stands, our ideal order is Barbarian>Fighter (these can swap easily) > Cleric > Monk.
Sometimes it ends up being best for me to join either the Fighter or Barbarian, depending on what we're facing, but all in all, I prefer a lower spot in initiative....which isn't easy being a Dex monkey.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
My first two thoughts are blasters(be they Wizard, Sorcerer, whatever) so they can get an AoE spell off before the enemies have a chance to scatter and before your melee fighters get up close to them, and Barbarians simply so they can activate their Rage before they take any hits. There have also been some good points made about players that want to activate other effects, be they buffs like Bless, or debuffs like Faerie Fire, Bane, etc.
Anyone who can cast spells that cause opponents to effectively miss their turn is optimal to go first. High levelled Hold Person or Dominate Monster change the nature of fights completely by nullifying multiple or powerful opponents. Every character in the game can deal damage, so they're less important. Tanks can get into position, but the same is achieved by other characters moving back to put them at the fore.
Unless you can cause enemies to miss their turn, it doesn't really matter where you are in the initiative order. High initiative is by far the biggest increase in damage dealing capability you can ask for, since if you take turn a turn and then kill a monster on your second before it gets its second turn your comparative damage per fight is much higher.
Frankly I think it depends on the spells the multiclassed characters have available. I would lean toward the bard/warlock multiclass, but again that heavily depends on spell selection. Depending on level spread and short rests, they may even be able to consistently cast those control spells.
The surprise immunity would be a bit more useful for class/subclass combinations that haven’t invested in Wisdom and the Perception skill, since they are much more likely to be surprised.
another consideration would be if the caster invested in a way to increase concentration save success rate. I could see priority of the item potential shifting to the artificer since spell storing item is unlocked for a lot of web action. It’s a 2nd level spell, but it can be very powerful with so many uses throughout the day and good placement. By that level I would imagine the other caster would have more powerful spells available to layer onto the web.
Warlock/bards are fairly restricted with the known spell mechanics they use though…
The first question is simple and philosophical:
Which party role in 5e would benefit a party most by taking their turn fast?
My personal answer here would be #4, as I know that full casters can bring some devastating or debilitating spells to bear that can change the outcome of an encounter.
The second question is now more specific and the answers relate to my current campaign's party composition:
Which character would it benefit our lvl 13 party (listed below) most for them to take their turn earliest/before the enemy?
I ask because I'm making an Artificer as a backup to replace my current character and intend to craft the Helm of Awareness for someone in the party, which grants them advantage on Initial rolls.
My instinct for the second question here would say #6, the Bard, as they would be closest we have to a full-caster (I don't think the Wizard has that many levels in Wizard).
Wizards.
Fireballs are less useful when the fighter rushes into the center. Even beyond controlling spells.
First question: probably controllers, in my opinion. A front-liner can burn their resources to burst down the biggest, toughest enemy at the start, but a controller with a single well-placed spell can divide the encounter into smaller, more manageable encounters that require fewer resources in the first place.
Second question: depends on what roles you party members fill. While class/subclass can give a general idea, more information would be helpful. Ultimately it comes down to who can swing the battle in the party's favor the most.
The chronurgist probably has the best chance of going first already, between adding their intelligence to initiative and likely having an extra 1d8 from gift of alacrity, so they don't need much more than that. I would suggest giving the helm to someone else in that case. But like I said, more information about the roles each party member fills will help with further guidance.
someone who's going to cast a spell that will affect how the rest of the characters perform, like Bless, Faerie Fire, Slow, or Bane.
There's not really a right answer here, even when you factor in party tactics. Obviously AOE casters can do their thing without worrying about party members when they go first. But they also tend to be the squishiest targets, and if the enemy goes before the front line they can be cut down in a hurry. There are two factors here - going before your teammates and going before the monsters. Casters tend to want to go before their teammates, but they also very much want their protection to go before the monsters.
This can also vary a lot depending on how your encounters tend to be set up and how they play out. Do monsters usually being in a tight formation and fan out? Do the players get much of a say in how spread out they are at the start? Do you have melee engagement on the first round or do you start pretty far apart? There are just a lot of factors here and then you've got the d20 in there to ensure that nothing is reliable.
Honestly the way I'd do it is to just ask the players. If there's a player who enjoys going earlier, they can have it. Players may have proactive/reactive mindsets independent of their class choices. My friend who always plays wizards actually is happiest going last so he can assess the situation and react accordingly - "toolbox" wizards can be different than blaster wizards.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Some great perspectives in here so far, thank you all.
Group makeup and enemy composition make a difference, as well. In our main group, we're a Barbarian, Fighter, Monk and Cleric. As the Monk, I prefer to be last, in many cases, to allow the battlefield to set up and me to best determine what I am going to do. If our Cleric was a blasty type, or controller, maybe wanting her first would make sense, but as it stands, our ideal order is Barbarian>Fighter (these can swap easily) > Cleric > Monk.
Sometimes it ends up being best for me to join either the Fighter or Barbarian, depending on what we're facing, but all in all, I prefer a lower spot in initiative....which isn't easy being a Dex monkey.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
My first two thoughts are blasters(be they Wizard, Sorcerer, whatever) so they can get an AoE spell off before the enemies have a chance to scatter and before your melee fighters get up close to them, and Barbarians simply so they can activate their Rage before they take any hits. There have also been some good points made about players that want to activate other effects, be they buffs like Bless, or debuffs like Faerie Fire, Bane, etc.
Someone who can cast Hypnotic Pattern going first can end a fight before it begins.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Anyone who can cast spells that cause opponents to effectively miss their turn is optimal to go first. High levelled Hold Person or Dominate Monster change the nature of fights completely by nullifying multiple or powerful opponents. Every character in the game can deal damage, so they're less important. Tanks can get into position, but the same is achieved by other characters moving back to put them at the fore.
Unless you can cause enemies to miss their turn, it doesn't really matter where you are in the initiative order. High initiative is by far the biggest increase in damage dealing capability you can ask for, since if you take turn a turn and then kill a monster on your second before it gets its second turn your comparative damage per fight is much higher.
Frankly I think it depends on the spells the multiclassed characters have available. I would lean toward the bard/warlock multiclass, but again that heavily depends on spell selection. Depending on level spread and short rests, they may even be able to consistently cast those control spells.
The surprise immunity would be a bit more useful for class/subclass combinations that haven’t invested in Wisdom and the Perception skill, since they are much more likely to be surprised.
another consideration would be if the caster invested in a way to increase concentration save success rate. I could see priority of the item potential shifting to the artificer since spell storing item is unlocked for a lot of web action. It’s a 2nd level spell, but it can be very powerful with so many uses throughout the day and good placement. By that level I would imagine the other caster would have more powerful spells available to layer onto the web.
Warlock/bards are fairly restricted with the known spell mechanics they use though…