I have a circumstance where the party has defeated a Spirit Naga, but without access to a Wish spell, the Spirit Naga returns. The party is contacted and assisted by a Guardian Naga that informs the party of an Ancient Green Dragon that possesses treasure that will enable the party to defeat the Spirit Naga.
I hope to make the encounter a bit easier by having the Guardian Naga explain how to fully defeat the Spirit Naga as well as pointers on defeating the Ancient Green Dragon. I will also probably have the Guardian Naga provide the characters with a few Arrows of Dragon Slaying, Dragon Slayer Sword, and likely two Periapts of Proof Against Poison. The Guardian Nagas' motivation is that the Ancient Green Dragon is corrupting the local area and the Sprit Naga is the leader of the Yuan-Ti in the region.
The primary purpose of the campaign is to defeat the Yuan-Ti empire; the encounter with the dragon is intended to provide the party with a Luck Blade or Ring of Wishes to defeat the Spirit Naga and set other things in motion.
With the assistance of the Guardian Naga (who has been scrying on the dragon for possibly decades) informing the party of secrets, tactical considerations, and some useful items, how can I make this encounter successful for a balanced four-person party in the 11-12 level range? Thank you for any ideas!
Honestly? Give it the stats of an Adult Green Dragon, which is a "hard" encounter for a party of 4 11th-levels.
Perhaps its age has been over-assumed and it's not actually as ancient as it (or others) say. Perhaps it is weakened by a disease that is plaguing it (ironically). Perhaps someone is building a weapon to shoot magic at this green dragon which will temporarily "weaken" it (to adult green dragon stat), giving the PCs just enough time to get in there and slay the beast. Perhaps they even find a way to lure it out of its lair, which will reduce the challenge a little as well.
I just ran an Ancient White Dragon against my party of 3 18th level players, which was balanced as a "hard" fight. They had plenty of potions, lots of magic items (though nothing specific against dragons for Reasons), and it still almost killed them - might have done if she had gotten her breath weapon back at any point.
The thing is that dragons are highly intelligent and know exactly what they're doing. They're not going to go soft on a party. A dragon is almost always going to open with its breath weapon, use its Frightful Presence/multiattack, and keep flying distance from them using their high flying speeds so that the party can't get much in terms of melee on them. They're always going to use their breath weapon when they have it back and iirc they get it back on a 5-6 (white does anyway). They'll use their Legendary Resistances without apology, their legendary actions without hesitation, and let's not forget Lair Actions (because by the sound of it, unless it's somehow lured out of its lair, which dragons may do but don't often, it's going to be in its lair).
So even when dragon-slaying items, pitting them up against a fully-powered ancient dragon is a TPK waiting to happen for that level.
Well, first of all, you only need a Wish spell to KILL a Spirit Naga, not to defeat it. Consider the following alternative methods of 'defeating a Spirit Naga':
Conversion (Petrification, True Polymorph until permanent, etc.)
Luring it to another plane (It doesn't have plane shift)
Capture (Imprisonment spell, Iron Flask it - players may need to lure it to another plane, etc)
That said, to defeat an Ancient Green Dragon, they need everyone to have some kind of protection against both poison and fright. Do not take minions/animals you do not want poisoned and frightened. They will however need to gear up for an extended battle because it has legendary resistances. You basically need to hit it with 4 save or lose spells to defeat it. It's going to do a ton of damage so they probably need a lot of expendable ways to negate that damage (healing, conjured grunts to take hits, etc).
They should DEFINITELY find a way to lure the Ancient Green Dragon out of it's lair, that helps a lot - no Lair actions.
So, to summarize: 1) Protection from fright and poison, 2) Healing and grunts, 3) Fight it away from home.
Thanks for the information! This is a homebrew campaign I am currently writing so no party yet! The reason they would need to defeat the Naga is that his lieutenant uses his death as an opening to transform into a Yuan-Ti Anathema. The ultimate intent of the Yuan-Ti is to summon the ancient god Merrshaulk. The campaign I am writing is intended to take the PC's from 1-20.
I thought about making the dragon an adult, even though in the SCAG it specifies it is an ancient dragon. I like the idea of the age being overestimated. I could also set some conditions where the PC's raid the lair while the dragon is out hunting. This encounter could end up with the PC's fighting some of the guardians around the lair and having a certain number of rounds to access the hoard, find the relevant items, and escape before the dragon returns as it would have been warned via an alarm or something that something is in its lair. This would give the PC's an opportunity to acquire the item, and make an enemy out of a very powerful dragon.
In this way, I can set up and encounter with the dragon at a later time when the PC's have leveled. They will also be encountering a Young Green Dragon which is allied with the Yuan-Ti so this could give them some insight into the capabilities of a green dragon in general. Thank you for the feedback, I always get so many ideas spinning when I discuss thoughts with others!
I have a circumstance where the party has defeated a Spirit Naga, but without access to a Wish spell, the Spirit Naga returns. The party is contacted and assisted by a Guardian Naga that informs the party of an Ancient Green Dragon that possesses treasure that will enable the party to defeat the Spirit Naga.
I hope to make the encounter a bit easier by having the Guardian Naga explain how to fully defeat the Spirit Naga as well as pointers on defeating the Ancient Green Dragon. I will also probably have the Guardian Naga provide the characters with a few Arrows of Dragon Slaying, Dragon Slayer Sword, and likely two Periapts of Proof Against Poison. The Guardian Nagas' motivation is that the Ancient Green Dragon is corrupting the local area and the Sprit Naga is the leader of the Yuan-Ti in the region.
The primary purpose of the campaign is to defeat the Yuan-Ti empire; the encounter with the dragon is intended to provide the party with a Luck Blade or Ring of Wishes to defeat the Spirit Naga and set other things in motion.
With the assistance of the Guardian Naga (who has been scrying on the dragon for possibly decades) informing the party of secrets, tactical considerations, and some useful items, how can I make this encounter successful for a balanced four-person party in the 11-12 level range? Thank you for any ideas!
Ian
I'd include an option to have the Dragon defeat the spirit naga. Whether the corruption is being overstated, misrepresented, or flat out lied about by the Guardian Naga can be up to you. If it's not a "falsehood", persuading the Dragon to fight the spirit naga could be a two birds with one stone scenario. If it is in world fiction, having a dragon as an ally could be interesting, having one that wants the party to bring it snacks as payment for saving the world could be interesting as well (and lead into its own problem to be resolved later).
Give them a period where they can steal stuff from the hoard (roll loot) and then have the dragon return. This will give them access to even stronger items to help, but make sure to say that the dragon has the thing they need on a pendant around the neck!
Even groups that really enjoy combat and optimization can enjoy the occasional non-combat solution to a problem. When you're trying to kill bad guy A and bad guy B has the tool to do it, there are tons of options on how to tackle that based on how bad guy B feels about bad guy A.
You can convince the dragon that the naga is a threat or a competitor.
You could make a deal to do something for the dragon or trade an item in exchange for the thing you need.
You could use stealth or deception to get the thing you need without the dragon's permission.
You could enlist an ally who is opposed to either the dragon or the naga to fight/distract/deceive the dragon while you take the thing you need.
This is often the kind of situation I use to tie in NPCs the party has previously dealt with or reference consequences of previous actions. I'd give them a few ways to tackle this (in addition to just steamrolling the dragon) based on the history of the campaign so far. It can be fun to give the party options and sit back and see where it goes - my group has surprised me more than once with what they came up with.
One thing to consider is the habits of Green Dragons themselves.
Green dragons love adding slaves to their hoards, and corrupting people to evil. They actually enjoy messing with local politics of nearby settlements just for the fun of it.
Green dragons consider elves and fey creatures delicous snacks.
Green dragons are incredibly protective of their young.
Hill giants are one of the green dragon's worst enemies. They hunt green dragon wyrmlings for sport.
Given these basic elements for a green dragon, you have lots of potential quest hooks for the party. Several involve doing a favor for the dragon - manipulating a local politician to take a bribe (great moral quandaries could exist here, so lots of fun as a position to put your party in), visiting the feywild and hinting down some tasty snacks, or eliminating a group of hill giants. Others might involve different opportunities - getting together a few hill giants or a band of elven rangers to take down the dragon (which would be an excellent way to make the fight manageable). You could do an infiltration mission, allowing yourselves to become the dragon's slaves, then steal from his hoard while he's out hunting (f you have elves in your party, be careful or they may become snacks.)
You might also consider getting the party temporary access to periapt of proof against poison (perhaps one that lasts an hour when activated) in order to avoid damage from the dragon. The dragon can only deal 2d10+8 4d6+8, &2d8+8 from bite, claw, & tail attacks, which while still nasty in melee, is a lot more manageable than dealing with the breath weapon. Plus, the dragon may waste the breath weapon and some time trying to figure out what's going on.
Taking on an ancient dragon of any kind at 11-12th level is suicide with delusions of survival.
Taking on an ancient green dragon in its lair at 11th-12th level is just suicide. Kicking it down to being an Adult dragon is doable, or else make it a roleplaying encounter where they bargain with it instead of a fight. There are certainly a lot of long-term consequences and story hooks that can stem from making a deal with a dragon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Or how about this: the dragon isn't home when the party hits the joint? Instead they have to fight through the green dragon's minions to get the item, while the dragon is off conducting dragon business on another continent. When it gets back seven to eight levels later, it goes into a massive rage and gets fought as an epic final boss.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
My plan was to have the Guardian Naga provide at least 1-2 Periapt of Proof Against Poison (I am assuming some of the party members will have some sort of resistance) to help make things more manageable. I love the idea of seeking some allies and will watch that video. Thanks!
Great idea! I was thinking of having it away on a hunt (the Guardian Naga has been tracking its movements) giving the players a window to infiltrate the lair, deal with a few minions, and search the lair prior to the dragon returning. The dragon becoming a boss fight after some time has passed it a great idea! As the players prepare to deal with the yuan-ti summoning a demi-god, the dragon appears! Thanks!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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I have a circumstance where the party has defeated a Spirit Naga, but without access to a Wish spell, the Spirit Naga returns. The party is contacted and assisted by a Guardian Naga that informs the party of an Ancient Green Dragon that possesses treasure that will enable the party to defeat the Spirit Naga.
I hope to make the encounter a bit easier by having the Guardian Naga explain how to fully defeat the Spirit Naga as well as pointers on defeating the Ancient Green Dragon. I will also probably have the Guardian Naga provide the characters with a few Arrows of Dragon Slaying, Dragon Slayer Sword, and likely two Periapts of Proof Against Poison. The Guardian Nagas' motivation is that the Ancient Green Dragon is corrupting the local area and the Sprit Naga is the leader of the Yuan-Ti in the region.
The primary purpose of the campaign is to defeat the Yuan-Ti empire; the encounter with the dragon is intended to provide the party with a Luck Blade or Ring of Wishes to defeat the Spirit Naga and set other things in motion.
With the assistance of the Guardian Naga (who has been scrying on the dragon for possibly decades) informing the party of secrets, tactical considerations, and some useful items, how can I make this encounter successful for a balanced four-person party in the 11-12 level range? Thank you for any ideas!
Ian
Honestly? Give it the stats of an Adult Green Dragon, which is a "hard" encounter for a party of 4 11th-levels.
Perhaps its age has been over-assumed and it's not actually as ancient as it (or others) say. Perhaps it is weakened by a disease that is plaguing it (ironically). Perhaps someone is building a weapon to shoot magic at this green dragon which will temporarily "weaken" it (to adult green dragon stat), giving the PCs just enough time to get in there and slay the beast. Perhaps they even find a way to lure it out of its lair, which will reduce the challenge a little as well.
I just ran an Ancient White Dragon against my party of 3 18th level players, which was balanced as a "hard" fight. They had plenty of potions, lots of magic items (though nothing specific against dragons for Reasons), and it still almost killed them - might have done if she had gotten her breath weapon back at any point.
The thing is that dragons are highly intelligent and know exactly what they're doing. They're not going to go soft on a party. A dragon is almost always going to open with its breath weapon, use its Frightful Presence/multiattack, and keep flying distance from them using their high flying speeds so that the party can't get much in terms of melee on them. They're always going to use their breath weapon when they have it back and iirc they get it back on a 5-6 (white does anyway). They'll use their Legendary Resistances without apology, their legendary actions without hesitation, and let's not forget Lair Actions (because by the sound of it, unless it's somehow lured out of its lair, which dragons may do but don't often, it's going to be in its lair).
So even when dragon-slaying items, pitting them up against a fully-powered ancient dragon is a TPK waiting to happen for that level.
Good luck to your party!
Well, first of all, you only need a Wish spell to KILL a Spirit Naga, not to defeat it. Consider the following alternative methods of 'defeating a Spirit Naga':
That said, to defeat an Ancient Green Dragon, they need everyone to have some kind of protection against both poison and fright. Do not take minions/animals you do not want poisoned and frightened. They will however need to gear up for an extended battle because it has legendary resistances. You basically need to hit it with 4 save or lose spells to defeat it. It's going to do a ton of damage so they probably need a lot of expendable ways to negate that damage (healing, conjured grunts to take hits, etc).
They should DEFINITELY find a way to lure the Ancient Green Dragon out of it's lair, that helps a lot - no Lair actions.
So, to summarize: 1) Protection from fright and poison, 2) Healing and grunts, 3) Fight it away from home.
Thanks for the information! This is a homebrew campaign I am currently writing so no party yet! The reason they would need to defeat the Naga is that his lieutenant uses his death as an opening to transform into a Yuan-Ti Anathema. The ultimate intent of the Yuan-Ti is to summon the ancient god Merrshaulk. The campaign I am writing is intended to take the PC's from 1-20.
I thought about making the dragon an adult, even though in the SCAG it specifies it is an ancient dragon. I like the idea of the age being overestimated. I could also set some conditions where the PC's raid the lair while the dragon is out hunting. This encounter could end up with the PC's fighting some of the guardians around the lair and having a certain number of rounds to access the hoard, find the relevant items, and escape before the dragon returns as it would have been warned via an alarm or something that something is in its lair. This would give the PC's an opportunity to acquire the item, and make an enemy out of a very powerful dragon.
In this way, I can set up and encounter with the dragon at a later time when the PC's have leveled. They will also be encountering a Young Green Dragon which is allied with the Yuan-Ti so this could give them some insight into the capabilities of a green dragon in general. Thank you for the feedback, I always get so many ideas spinning when I discuss thoughts with others!
I'd include an option to have the Dragon defeat the spirit naga. Whether the corruption is being overstated, misrepresented, or flat out lied about by the Guardian Naga can be up to you. If it's not a "falsehood", persuading the Dragon to fight the spirit naga could be a two birds with one stone scenario. If it is in world fiction, having a dragon as an ally could be interesting, having one that wants the party to bring it snacks as payment for saving the world could be interesting as well (and lead into its own problem to be resolved later).
Give them a period where they can steal stuff from the hoard (roll loot) and then have the dragon return. This will give them access to even stronger items to help, but make sure to say that the dragon has the thing they need on a pendant around the neck!
Even groups that really enjoy combat and optimization can enjoy the occasional non-combat solution to a problem. When you're trying to kill bad guy A and bad guy B has the tool to do it, there are tons of options on how to tackle that based on how bad guy B feels about bad guy A.
This is often the kind of situation I use to tie in NPCs the party has previously dealt with or reference consequences of previous actions. I'd give them a few ways to tackle this (in addition to just steamrolling the dragon) based on the history of the campaign so far. It can be fun to give the party options and sit back and see where it goes - my group has surprised me more than once with what they came up with.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
One thing to consider is the habits of Green Dragons themselves.
Given these basic elements for a green dragon, you have lots of potential quest hooks for the party. Several involve doing a favor for the dragon - manipulating a local politician to take a bribe (great moral quandaries could exist here, so lots of fun as a position to put your party in), visiting the feywild and hinting down some tasty snacks, or eliminating a group of hill giants. Others might involve different opportunities - getting together a few hill giants or a band of elven rangers to take down the dragon (which would be an excellent way to make the fight manageable). You could do an infiltration mission, allowing yourselves to become the dragon's slaves, then steal from his hoard while he's out hunting (f you have elves in your party, be careful or they may become snacks.)
(For more on the behavior habits of the green dragon, What They Don't Tell You About Green Dragons on Youtube)
You might also consider getting the party temporary access to periapt of proof against poison (perhaps one that lasts an hour when activated) in order to avoid damage from the dragon. The dragon can only deal 2d10+8 4d6+8, &2d8+8 from bite, claw, & tail attacks, which while still nasty in melee, is a lot more manageable than dealing with the breath weapon. Plus, the dragon may waste the breath weapon and some time trying to figure out what's going on.
Taking on an ancient dragon of any kind at 11-12th level is suicide with delusions of survival.
Taking on an ancient green dragon in its lair at 11th-12th level is just suicide. Kicking it down to being an Adult dragon is doable, or else make it a roleplaying encounter where they bargain with it instead of a fight. There are certainly a lot of long-term consequences and story hooks that can stem from making a deal with a dragon.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Or how about this: the dragon isn't home when the party hits the joint? Instead they have to fight through the green dragon's minions to get the item, while the dragon is off conducting dragon business on another continent. When it gets back seven to eight levels later, it goes into a massive rage and gets fought as an epic final boss.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
My plan was to have the Guardian Naga provide at least 1-2 Periapt of Proof Against Poison (I am assuming some of the party members will have some sort of resistance) to help make things more manageable. I love the idea of seeking some allies and will watch that video. Thanks!
Great idea! I was thinking of having it away on a hunt (the Guardian Naga has been tracking its movements) giving the players a window to infiltrate the lair, deal with a few minions, and search the lair prior to the dragon returning. The dragon becoming a boss fight after some time has passed it a great idea! As the players prepare to deal with the yuan-ti summoning a demi-god, the dragon appears! Thanks!