2nd-level monk feature You train yourself to use a variety of weapons as monk weapons, not just simple melee weapons and shortswords. Whenever you finish a short or long rest, you can touch one weapon, focus your ki on it, and then count that weapon as a monk weapon until you use this feature again.
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn.
Martial Arts normally only allows Shortswords and Monk Weapons (ie. melee Weapons that the monk has Proficiency with that don't have 2-handed or Heavy) to have their die replaced. Dedicated Weapon, however, expands that to any weapon the Monk has proficiency with, which are Shortswords and Simple/Martial Weapons, and specifically states it does not have to be a Simple Melee Weapon. The only restrictions are Simple or Martial, must have Proficiency, and cannot have Heavy or Special.
In other words, Dedicated Weapon can be used with a Sling to, at high level, allow the Monk to make Bludgeoning ranged attacks with a D10+Dex (or Str) for damage. Shortbow and Light Crossbow can also be used for long-range Piercing Damage at D10+Dex (or Str)
While not necessarily optimal since you won't be able to Stunning Strikes at range and can't use FoB for more pew-pew, it looks like this opens the door to a fairly decent set of options to address the Monk's woeful lack of ranged damage options.
Standard monks don't get martial weapons - Weapons: Simple weapons, shortswords
So yes, it does make a marginal increase in the number of weapons a monk could use. In the past they had to be simple weapons and not have either 2 handed or heavy as a tag. Now it has been changed to heavy or special. This allows them to use a greatclub which is tagged as 2 handed but not heavy or special. As far as the other weapons you mentioned the sling, light crossbow and shortbow are appropriate but I don't think it is anywhere near as powerful as you seem to believe. They would already be using dex to hit and damage as they are ranged weapons, and they already have proficiency bonus for attacks. The monk would need to be 5th level to increase sling damage from 1d4 to 1d6 which is an average of +1 damage per attack. Level 11 to increase shortbow damage from 1d6 to 1d8 again just +1 damage effectively. Level 17 is when they could increase light crossbow damage from 1d8 to 1d10. The damage increase is minimal - doing 1d10 instead of 1d4 with a sling is really minor at 17th level. Not to mention the loss of Flurry, and all the other very nice abilities a monk would get.
Don't get me wrong, it is a boost, but it is a very little boost.
I see where you're coming from. I'm looking to start playing a Monk in a new campaign and I was looking at available ranged options. My general opinion was that... Monks really didn't have anything terribly worthwhile in an event where they physically cannot reach their target (ie. flying).
Sure, there's Sun Soul but I feel it's really mediocre at best. 4-Elements is thematically interesting but, again, it seems very lackluster on paper. This feature, however, at least gives an option.
Maybe I'm just looking at it with excitement because I haven't played a Monk before and it looks cool, haha.
Don't get the wrong idea, it is a bonus to the monk's abilities, but it's just not a huge one. A big part of the game is that it is team based and you rely on your allies to assist. In one of my games the party bard cast fly on the monk and the monk then flew up to the creature and hit it with a stunning fist. The monk then 'rode' the creature as it fell to earth stunned. The bard didn't do any damage, but without him casting fly, the monk wouldn't have gotten to do what he did. It was very good team work and understanding the situation that helped them take down a much more powerful enemy.
At low levels you can also benefit from having access to more powerful monk weapons if you have proficiency in them through another source. While if you dedicate to a long bow being able ot shoot with a longbow and then rush in for a bonus unarmed strike might be situational you can dedicate to a war hammer giving you an extra 1 point of damage extra per hit on average compared tro a quarterstaff. You can also choose a longsword or battle axe to gve you a choice of slashing damage for the rare cases it makes a difference like an awakened tree if you are using the the origin proficiencies rule in Tasha's..
Unfortunately, Longbow is disqualified due to having the Heavy property.
Warhammer, Battle Axe, and Longsword are definitely viable options. Take your swing with 2-hands for the Versatile damage die and still get your bonus unarmed attacks since neither weapon has the two-handed property.
Ranged options certainly open up some more. Most are going to go with the shortbow, as they need a feat to capitalize on the light crossbow, unless they're also a Kensei. Melee weapons don't change, much, unless they also have a compatible weapon proficiency from some other source. As cool as swinging a greatclub is, it does no more damage than a quarterstaff in two hands. Dwarves and certain elf subraces come to mind for some 1d10 versatile weapons, though. A dwarf monk, armed with a dwarven thrower, sounds pretty dope. So does a wood elf monk with a flame tongue longsword. And, because of the customizable origins, incompatible and redundant weapon proficiencies can be traded out. And elf monk with scimitar proficiency sounds BA.
It also makes the Weapon Master feat slightly more attractive. Before, it was a niche pick for clerics and rogues. Now, a lot of monks might want it for the +1 Dex and 4 proficiencies alone. Of course, its usefulness can go up if there are more compatible magic items to pick from.
I dunno, I still think the Sun Soul monk has the edge since it deals on-demand Radiant damage and can FoB when using Radiant Sun Bolt, but it definitely does bring it down a little bit compared to the other options where ranged damage is concerned.
Early on due to the low number of Ki points, I think the Shortbow or Light Xbow has a bit of an edge in longer encounters due to the higher damage die. Later, though, unless you need Bludgeoning or Piercing to beat a creature's resistance, I think Radiant Sun Bolt is going to be better most of the time simply due to action economy. Not a whole lot better, and certainly not enough to solely justify Sun Soul, but not enough to completely invalidate it.
Tossing around radiant damage equivalents to Fireball still sounds pretty darn bad arse.
Ranged options certainly open up some more. Most are going to go with the shortbow, as they need a feat to capitalize on the light crossbow, unless they're also a Kensei. Melee weapons don't change, much, unless they also have a compatible weapon proficiency from some other source. As cool as swinging a greatclub is, it does no more damage than a quarterstaff in two hands. Dwarves and certain elf subraces come to mind for some 1d10 versatile weapons, though. A dwarf monk, armed with a dwarven thrower, sounds pretty dope. So does a wood elf monk with a flame tongue longsword. And, because of the customizable origins, incompatible and redundant weapon proficiencies can be traded out. And elf monk with scimitar proficiency sounds BA.
It also makes the Weapon Master feat slightly more attractive. Before, it was a niche pick for clerics and rogues. Now, a lot of monks might want it for the +1 Dex and 4 proficiencies alone. Of course, its usefulness can go up if there are more compatible magic items to pick from.
Yeah I could actually see a lot of custom races start with the feat now.
I dunno, I still think the Sun Soul monk has the edge since it deals on-demand Radiant damage and can FoB when using Radiant Sun Bolt, but it definitely does bring it down a little bit compared to the other options where ranged damage is concerned.
Early on due to the low number of Ki points, I think the Shortbow or Light Xbow has a bit of an edge in longer encounters due to the higher damage die. Later, though, unless you need Bludgeoning or Piercing to beat a creature's resistance, I think Radiant Sun Bolt is going to be better most of the time simply due to action economy. Not a whole lot better, and certainly not enough to solely justify Sun Soul, but not enough to completely invalidate it.
Tossing around radiant damage equivalents to Fireball still sounds pretty darn bad arse.
Yeah you basically trade range for a better damage type for sure. Its a trade off for sure.
The 11th level sun soul fireball is fairly underwhelming unfortunately. Its a CON save, costs a lot of ki to make worthwhile damage wise, and is save or suck as they do not even take half damage if they succeed which is real bad.
The major benefit I see is the Sun Soul can do 4 attacks at range while the best this option can do is 2 with extra attack. So this makes them the better ranged option I think.
Mostly it just buffs up Shadow monk and the other monks that have ki actions as you can make a ranged attack as a BA if you spend ki on your action. So you could cast a spell then BA attack at range which is nice.
Is it really that great to have a ranged monk? Sure, you need it sometimes, but you can’t flurry with a sling, or stun, or take advantage of your extra movement, or do lots of the cool things monks can do. Monks want to be in melee, maybe not in the thick of it, but around the edges. Or running up a wall to get to the back and stun-lock enemy casters.
Is it really that great to have a ranged monk? Sure, you need it sometimes, but you can’t flurry with a sling, or stun, or take advantage of your extra movement, or do lots of the cool things monks can do. Monks want to be in melee, maybe not in the thick of it, but around the edges. Or running up a wall to get to the back and stun-lock enemy casters.
A lot of their standard tool kit works best in melee, so generally speaking, I want to say not. But some builds can be made effective at range. There are lots of Elemental Disciplines for the Way of Four Elements which, if used judiciously, could apply here. Like, you can drop and swap weapons at a moment's notice. I could see instances where that could work. But I can also see instances where you'd want to follow up with a melee attack.
Monk's have always, I've felt, been these flexible switch-hitters who float around the edges of the melee; moving to support the party where they're most needed. It's nice to see someone else share the same sentiment. Attacking from range has become more viable, to be sure, but it shouldn't be their primary method of contributing.
Is it really that great to have a ranged monk? Sure, you need it sometimes, but you can’t flurry with a sling, or stun, or take advantage of your extra movement, or do lots of the cool things monks can do. Monks want to be in melee, maybe not in the thick of it, but around the edges. Or running up a wall to get to the back and stun-lock enemy casters.
A lot of their standard tool kit works best in melee, so generally speaking, I want to say not. But some builds can be made effective at range. There are lots of Elemental Disciplines for the Way of Four Elements which, if used judiciously, could apply here. Like, you can drop and swap weapons at a moment's notice. I could see instances where that could work. But I can also see instances where you'd want to follow up with a melee attack.
Monk's have always, I've felt, been these flexible switch-hitters who float around the edges of the melee; moving to support the party where they're most needed. It's nice to see someone else share the same sentiment. Attacking from range has become more viable, to be sure, but it shouldn't be their primary method of contributing.
Yeah feels more like a "Hey I can throw one attack out there at least!" kind of thing rather a focus for a build. Monk seemingly is the jack of all trades when it comes to stuff so having another tool just makes sense for them.
2nd-level monk feature You train yourself to use a variety of weapons as monk weapons, not just simple melee weapons and shortswords. Whenever you finish a short or long rest, you can touch one weapon, focus your ki on it, and then count that weapon as a monk weapon until you use this feature again.
At 1st level, your practice of martial arts gives you mastery of combat styles that use unarmed strikes and monk weapons, which are shortswords and any simple melee weapons that don’t have the two-handed or heavy property.
You gain the following benefits while you are unarmed or wielding only monk weapons and you aren’t wearing armor or wielding a shield:
You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for the attack and damage rolls of your unarmed strikes and monk weapons.
You can roll a d4 in place of the normal damage of your unarmed strike or monk weapon. This die changes as you gain monk levels, as shown in the Martial Arts column of the Monk table.
When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn.
Martial Arts normally only allows Shortswords and Monk Weapons (ie. melee Weapons that the monk has Proficiency with that don't have 2-handed or Heavy) to have their die replaced. Dedicated Weapon, however, expands that to any weapon the Monk has proficiency with, which are Shortswords and Simple/Martial Weapons, and specifically states it does not have to be a Simple Melee Weapon. The only restrictions are Simple or Martial, must have Proficiency, and cannot have Heavy or Special.
In other words, Dedicated Weapon can be used with a Sling to, at high level, allow the Monk to make Bludgeoning ranged attacks with a D10+Dex (or Str) for damage. Shortbow and Light Crossbow can also be used for long-range Piercing Damage at D10+Dex (or Str)
While not necessarily optimal since you won't be able to Stunning Strikes at range and can't use FoB for more pew-pew, it looks like this opens the door to a fairly decent set of options to address the Monk's woeful lack of ranged damage options.
Thoughts?
Monks were already able to use the shortbow and the light crossbow due to them being simple ranged weapons. Being able to increase their damage if you get high enough is a nice boost.
You can go Kensei to get the Longbow (which is better than light crossbow because it lacks the loading property) and gives some nice options to play a more ranged monk.
That said, monks do have high mobility which makes the need for ranged options to be much lower. There are plenty of thrown weapons that can qualify for monk weapons that deal d6 damage normally and the javelin has a range of 30/120. Couple that with a monk's speed and dash ability, and your range to attack is pretty impressive. It does have its baggage that comes with it, but that's part of the flavor of the monk.
Agreed. It’s always good to have a ranged option. I just don’t think I’d do what the OP suggested and spend my one weapon a day choice on ranged.
It's actually once per short or long rest. Gives a lot of flexibility if you know what you're going up against.
Oh, I didn't read it closely enough. That could change things. If you know you're about to fight a flock of flying creatures or something, I could definitely see the use of it there.
Surprised whip hasn't been brought up at all, as the reach is really nice. That was my first thought for this feature.
At issue is the fact you need to be proficient with the weapon to pull this off and nob race starts with proficiency at 1st level. Well, I suppose hobgoblins can. But that's it, which means either multiclassing for a single weapon (ick) or taking the Weapon Master feat.
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So is it just me or is this feature really good?
Dedicated Weapon reads as follows:
And Martial Arts reads as follows:
Martial Arts normally only allows Shortswords and Monk Weapons (ie. melee Weapons that the monk has Proficiency with that don't have 2-handed or Heavy) to have their die replaced. Dedicated Weapon, however, expands that to any weapon the Monk has proficiency with, which are Shortswords and Simple/Martial Weapons, and specifically states it does not have to be a Simple Melee Weapon. The only restrictions are Simple or Martial, must have Proficiency, and cannot have Heavy or Special.
In other words, Dedicated Weapon can be used with a Sling to, at high level, allow the Monk to make Bludgeoning ranged attacks with a D10+Dex (or Str) for damage. Shortbow and Light Crossbow can also be used for long-range Piercing Damage at D10+Dex (or Str)
While not necessarily optimal since you won't be able to Stunning Strikes at range and can't use FoB for more pew-pew, it looks like this opens the door to a fairly decent set of options to address the Monk's woeful lack of ranged damage options.
Thoughts?
Standard monks don't get martial weapons - Weapons: Simple weapons, shortswords
So yes, it does make a marginal increase in the number of weapons a monk could use. In the past they had to be simple weapons and not have either 2 handed or heavy as a tag. Now it has been changed to heavy or special. This allows them to use a greatclub which is tagged as 2 handed but not heavy or special. As far as the other weapons you mentioned the sling, light crossbow and shortbow are appropriate but I don't think it is anywhere near as powerful as you seem to believe. They would already be using dex to hit and damage as they are ranged weapons, and they already have proficiency bonus for attacks. The monk would need to be 5th level to increase sling damage from 1d4 to 1d6 which is an average of +1 damage per attack. Level 11 to increase shortbow damage from 1d6 to 1d8 again just +1 damage effectively. Level 17 is when they could increase light crossbow damage from 1d8 to 1d10. The damage increase is minimal - doing 1d10 instead of 1d4 with a sling is really minor at 17th level. Not to mention the loss of Flurry, and all the other very nice abilities a monk would get.
Don't get me wrong, it is a boost, but it is a very little boost.
I see where you're coming from. I'm looking to start playing a Monk in a new campaign and I was looking at available ranged options. My general opinion was that... Monks really didn't have anything terribly worthwhile in an event where they physically cannot reach their target (ie. flying).
Sure, there's Sun Soul but I feel it's really mediocre at best. 4-Elements is thematically interesting but, again, it seems very lackluster on paper. This feature, however, at least gives an option.
Maybe I'm just looking at it with excitement because I haven't played a Monk before and it looks cool, haha.
Don't get the wrong idea, it is a bonus to the monk's abilities, but it's just not a huge one. A big part of the game is that it is team based and you rely on your allies to assist. In one of my games the party bard cast fly on the monk and the monk then flew up to the creature and hit it with a stunning fist. The monk then 'rode' the creature as it fell to earth stunned. The bard didn't do any damage, but without him casting fly, the monk wouldn't have gotten to do what he did. It was very good team work and understanding the situation that helped them take down a much more powerful enemy.
At low levels you can also benefit from having access to more powerful monk weapons if you have proficiency in them through another source. While if you dedicate to a long bow being able ot shoot with a longbow and then rush in for a bonus unarmed strike might be situational you can dedicate to a war hammer giving you an extra 1 point of damage extra per hit on average compared tro a quarterstaff. You can also choose a longsword or battle axe to gve you a choice of slashing damage for the rare cases it makes a difference like an awakened tree if you are using the the origin proficiencies rule in Tasha's..
Unfortunately, Longbow is disqualified due to having the Heavy property.
Warhammer, Battle Axe, and Longsword are definitely viable options. Take your swing with 2-hands for the Versatile damage die and still get your bonus unarmed attacks since neither weapon has the two-handed property.
Huh kinda makes Sun Soul a lot less fun....
Getting a better damaging ranged option on top of another monks chassis makes them a lot less appealing.
Ranged options certainly open up some more. Most are going to go with the shortbow, as they need a feat to capitalize on the light crossbow, unless they're also a Kensei. Melee weapons don't change, much, unless they also have a compatible weapon proficiency from some other source. As cool as swinging a greatclub is, it does no more damage than a quarterstaff in two hands. Dwarves and certain elf subraces come to mind for some 1d10 versatile weapons, though. A dwarf monk, armed with a dwarven thrower, sounds pretty dope. So does a wood elf monk with a flame tongue longsword. And, because of the customizable origins, incompatible and redundant weapon proficiencies can be traded out. And elf monk with scimitar proficiency sounds BA.
It also makes the Weapon Master feat slightly more attractive. Before, it was a niche pick for clerics and rogues. Now, a lot of monks might want it for the +1 Dex and 4 proficiencies alone. Of course, its usefulness can go up if there are more compatible magic items to pick from.
I dunno, I still think the Sun Soul monk has the edge since it deals on-demand Radiant damage and can FoB when using Radiant Sun Bolt, but it definitely does bring it down a little bit compared to the other options where ranged damage is concerned.
Early on due to the low number of Ki points, I think the Shortbow or Light Xbow has a bit of an edge in longer encounters due to the higher damage die. Later, though, unless you need Bludgeoning or Piercing to beat a creature's resistance, I think Radiant Sun Bolt is going to be better most of the time simply due to action economy. Not a whole lot better, and certainly not enough to solely justify Sun Soul, but not enough to completely invalidate it.
Tossing around radiant damage equivalents to Fireball still sounds pretty darn bad arse.
Yeah I could actually see a lot of custom races start with the feat now.
Yeah you basically trade range for a better damage type for sure. Its a trade off for sure.
The 11th level sun soul fireball is fairly underwhelming unfortunately. Its a CON save, costs a lot of ki to make worthwhile damage wise, and is save or suck as they do not even take half damage if they succeed which is real bad.
The major benefit I see is the Sun Soul can do 4 attacks at range while the best this option can do is 2 with extra attack. So this makes them the better ranged option I think.
Mostly it just buffs up Shadow monk and the other monks that have ki actions as you can make a ranged attack as a BA if you spend ki on your action. So you could cast a spell then BA attack at range which is nice.
Is it really that great to have a ranged monk? Sure, you need it sometimes, but you can’t flurry with a sling, or stun, or take advantage of your extra movement, or do lots of the cool things monks can do. Monks want to be in melee, maybe not in the thick of it, but around the edges. Or running up a wall to get to the back and stun-lock enemy casters.
A lot of their standard tool kit works best in melee, so generally speaking, I want to say not. But some builds can be made effective at range. There are lots of Elemental Disciplines for the Way of Four Elements which, if used judiciously, could apply here. Like, you can drop and swap weapons at a moment's notice. I could see instances where that could work. But I can also see instances where you'd want to follow up with a melee attack.
Monk's have always, I've felt, been these flexible switch-hitters who float around the edges of the melee; moving to support the party where they're most needed. It's nice to see someone else share the same sentiment. Attacking from range has become more viable, to be sure, but it shouldn't be their primary method of contributing.
Yeah feels more like a "Hey I can throw one attack out there at least!" kind of thing rather a focus for a build. Monk seemingly is the jack of all trades when it comes to stuff so having another tool just makes sense for them.
Agreed. It’s always good to have a ranged option. I just don’t think I’d do what the OP suggested and spend my one weapon a day choice on ranged.
It's actually once per short or long rest. Gives a lot of flexibility if you know what you're going up against.
Monks were already able to use the shortbow and the light crossbow due to them being simple ranged weapons. Being able to increase their damage if you get high enough is a nice boost.
You can go Kensei to get the Longbow (which is better than light crossbow because it lacks the loading property) and gives some nice options to play a more ranged monk.
That said, monks do have high mobility which makes the need for ranged options to be much lower. There are plenty of thrown weapons that can qualify for monk weapons that deal d6 damage normally and the javelin has a range of 30/120. Couple that with a monk's speed and dash ability, and your range to attack is pretty impressive. It does have its baggage that comes with it, but that's part of the flavor of the monk.
Oh, I didn't read it closely enough. That could change things. If you know you're about to fight a flock of flying creatures or something, I could definitely see the use of it there.
Surprised whip hasn't been brought up at all, as the reach is really nice. That was my first thought for this feature.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
At issue is the fact you need to be proficient with the weapon to pull this off and nob race starts with proficiency at 1st level. Well, I suppose hobgoblins can. But that's it, which means either multiclassing for a single weapon (ick) or taking the Weapon Master feat.