I've got a Halfling Monk and I decided fighting with a sword is boring and it would be much more fun to fight with a pair of Immovable Rods. I imagine a lot of cool tricks I could pull off using them to trip/clothesline/etc enemies and my DM is on board with it because I'm not trying to gain any mechanical advantage here, nothing I would be doing with them would be something I couldn't already do RAW I'm just describing it in a way that is more fun for me (and hopefully others). The problem we've run into is that that Immovable Rod specifies that you have to take an action to activate it. It also says that activation is pressing a button. This would sort of preclude it being used in combat in the fashion I've described.
The rules do allow you to interact with objects and the environment as part of your movement or action, the list on p. 190 of the PHB gives examples and all of them are less involved than pressing a button on an object already in your hand. Is there some game breaking way of using an Immovable Rod if it were activated like this instead of taking your action? I can't be the first person to have this idea so I wondered if the rules were written to prevent this for some reason.
I don't know if it's game-breaking, but activating a magic item is its own action. And, yes, this includes pressing the button on an immovable rod. Even if pressing the button itself is a free action, it takes time for the magic to kick in. The same can be said of downing a potion of healing. Even if drinking it doesn't take a lot of time, and I'm not saying it does, the magic needs time to take hold.
Beyond that, I'd probably treat it as an improvised weapon so only expect to get 1d4 + your Strenght modifier for damage. Your DM might allow for as much as 1d6, but rods aren't generally considered weapons. At best, it's comparable to a club. And remember that even if the rod is immovable, it can suffer damage and be broken.
If you and your DM have already agreed to purely cosmetic changes, no further action need be taken. They can do whatever you guys want in a fight and when you actually want to use the immovability feature, you expend an action.
As a separate question, since it seems Immovable Rods are coming up lately, would DMs allow a player to add Athletics to their DC 30 STR check to budge the Rod? Should Goliaths or firbolgs get advantage because of their build?
I think the DC 30 straight STR is to ensure that it is completely IMMOVABLE by anything short of a crazy strong monster. cause even a level 20 barbarian with 24 STR can only roll a 27 STR check. So i think the 30 DC is a formal rules way of saying "impossible for a player"
allowing athletics makes it possible! which would mean the player is applying the 8000lbs of force needed to move it which is silly lol. BUT if your campaign is light hearted enough (most of mine are) than sure why not lol! I make most of my ruling decisions based on "will allowing this make the game night more fun?" and if your barbarian rolling a 31 athletics and popping a blood vessel to use superman level strength makes your whole table laugh, then by all means!!
I don't know if it's game-breaking, but activating a magic item is its own action. And, yes, this includes pressing the button on an immovable rod. Even if pressing the button itself is a free action, it takes time for the magic to kick in. The same can be said of downing a potion of healing. Even if drinking it doesn't take a lot of time, and I'm not saying it does, the magic needs time to take hold.
Beyond that, I'd probably treat it as an improvised weapon so only expect to get 1d4 + your Strenght modifier for damage. Your DM might allow for as much as 1d6, but rods aren't generally considered weapons. At best, it's comparable to a club. And remember that even if the rod is immovable, it can suffer damage and be broken.
That was sort of the gist of our conversation so far, that is takes time for the magic to kick in as a possible explanation, which I can buy although in your example I think drinking a healing potion wouldn't be quite the same thing. It could easily take me 3 seconds to drink a cup of water where as pressing a button is fractions of a second. I figured they would count as 'clubs' but I'm actually better off just hitting with my fists even if they were so my plan was to just hit people with my unarmed attacks, not the Rod itself in most cases.
If you and your DM have already agreed to purely cosmetic changes, no further action need be taken. They can do whatever you guys want in a fight and when you actually want to use the immovability feature, you expend an action.
The problem here is that I want to be able to use that feature in combat. If I'm required to use my action to activate it, I can't really be doing anything else in combat and as I'm the primary melee combatant of the party that won't really work. The example I gave my DM was using Flurry of Blows to punch someone in the leg, activate the Immovable Rod to leave it floating behind their knee then hit them high and knock them backwards as they trip over the Rod. Mechanically speaking, nothing new is happening here (activate Flurry of Blows, hit opponent and force Dex save or be knocked prone) but narratively this is a lot more interesting and creates a more dynamic battlefield.
I feel justified asking my DM to allow the Rod to be activated using the free "interact with environment" action I mentioned in my first post and I think he would go along with it. You still only get one of those an action so you can't be turning it on and off like a flashlight or something silly like that. What I wanted was to see if doing so opens up some kind of Pandora's Box of trouble that neither of us have foreseen yet.
nothing I would be doing with them would be something I couldn't already do RAW I'm just describing it in a way that is more fun for me (and hopefully others)
As long as this holds true I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing. Immovable Rods are the kind of thing that is harmless fun 98% of the time and then world-shattering the other 2% of the time. A lot of DMs are so averse to running into that 2% that they treat IRs like sticks of dynamite. But as long as you and your DM are in agreement and you both act in good faith with the intention of making the game fun for all, I think a little houseruling on IRs would be fine. Maybe a little jolt of ki could speed up their activation...
This is some really cool imagery the more I think about it. Think about what someone like Jackie Chan could pull off with a couple of Immovable Rods. It would be the kind of scene you'd need to rewind and play back 3 times in slow motion to fully appreciate. Awesome.
I feel like we're on the same page here. The example you gave was you doing something that you already get to do (trip someone using Open Hand style), but just using the Rod. I think you can already guess that the bigger the ask grows, the bigger the Pandora's box grows. Can you get a dude in a guillotine leg-choke and then salmon-ladder your full movement up in the air and then drop him? No. Can you do a stunning strike, but you describe it to your DM as letting the guy grab the Rod and then he spends his turn looking stupid trying to hit you with it, while you Flurry of Blows two other guys? Hell, yeah. That sounds like a Jet Li move.
If the way you want to use it in combat is to pin someone in place, or to bar a door, well, that's what everyone uses it in combat for, so you have to use it the same way everyone else does, by expending an action.
I feel like we're on the same page here. The example you gave was you doing something that you already get to do (trip someone using Open Hand style), but just using the Rod. I think you can already guess that the bigger the ask grows, the bigger the Pandora's box grows. Can you get a dude in a guillotine leg-choke and then salmon-ladder your full movement up in the air and then drop him? No. Can you do a stunning strike, but you describe it to your DM as letting the guy grab the Rod and then he spends his turn looking stupid trying to hit you with it, while you Flurry of Blows two other guys? Hell, yeah. That sounds like a Jet Li move.
If the way you want to use it in combat is to pin someone in place, or to bar a door, well, that's what everyone uses it in combat for, so you have to use it the same way everyone else does, by expending an action.
I think I see what you're saying, using it narratively wouldn't require an action but using it in a more traditional fashion would. I can see where there is a lot of grey area in between that might be tricky but it seems like a reasonable middle ground.
Starting at 3rd level, you can use the bonus action granted by your Cunning Action to make a Dexterity (Sleight of Hand) check, use your thieves’ tools to disarm a trap or open a lock, or take the Use an Object action.
Immediately thought of the Thief Rogue and this ability when I read through this thread.
First of all, I know that this ability does not allow you to activate magic items as a bonus action. BUT, maybe your DM is open to you using fast hands on specifically the Immovable Rod, and no other magic items. If you are really desperate to have a way to use them as something less obtrusive than an action, this seems like a reasonable thing to discuss with the DM.
Alternatively, for a RAW friendly approach, you could dip into fighter. Action Surge will allow you to do normal combat things and activate the rod in one turn.
This has me thinking about how sais are actually used. They were used to defend against drunk samurai weilding swords, pin limbs to the ground or walls, dislocate joints, pretty much disable the opponent without causing too much lasting harm. Having a magic item that activates to affect movement is in line with this thinking. You could come up with an item like a sai that on a successful hit requires them to make a successful STR check against 30 to escape at the cost of losing the weapon until it is retrieved. The weapon self activates once it makes successful contact and is released. To be consistent with the activating magic item rules, you could state that they are activated when they are drawn, but their activation is delayed until release. Fireball has a delayed version, so there is precedent for magic basically 'holding its action(???)' before the energy is released.
Either way, look up how sais are used and some of the neat history behind them. Also watch the TMNT Raphael use them completely wrong, haha
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IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
..., would DMs allow a player to add Athletics to their DC 30 STR check to budge the Rod? Should Goliaths or firbolgs get advantage because of their build?
"The Athletics skill reflects aptitude in certain kinds of Strength checks... [and] covers difficult situations you encounter while climbing, jumping, or swimming" so I wouldn't rule that 5e's version of athletics applies.
In both cases of:
Powerful Build
You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
which refers back to,
Size and Strength. Larger creatures can bear more weight, whereas Tiny creatures can carry less. For each size category above Medium, double the creature's carrying capacity and the amount it can push, drag, or lift. For a Tiny creature, halve these weights.
Personally, I'd allow advantage for a reasonably braced push, lift or pull but that's my personal take.
I've got a Halfling Monk and I decided fighting with a sword is boring and it would be much more fun to fight with a pair of Immovable Rods. I imagine a lot of cool tricks I could pull off using them to trip/clothesline/etc enemies and my DM is on board with it because I'm not trying to gain any mechanical advantage here, nothing I would be doing with them would be something I couldn't already do RAW I'm just describing it in a way that is more fun for me (and hopefully others). The problem we've run into is that that Immovable Rod specifies that you have to take an action to activate it. It also says that activation is pressing a button. This would sort of preclude it being used in combat in the fashion I've described.
The rules do allow you to interact with objects and the environment as part of your movement or action, the list on p. 190 of the PHB gives examples and all of them are less involved than pressing a button on an object already in your hand. Is there some game breaking way of using an Immovable Rod if it were activated like this instead of taking your action? I can't be the first person to have this idea so I wondered if the rules were written to prevent this for some reason.
I don't know if it's game-breaking, but activating a magic item is its own action. And, yes, this includes pressing the button on an immovable rod. Even if pressing the button itself is a free action, it takes time for the magic to kick in. The same can be said of downing a potion of healing. Even if drinking it doesn't take a lot of time, and I'm not saying it does, the magic needs time to take hold.
Beyond that, I'd probably treat it as an improvised weapon so only expect to get 1d4 + your Strenght modifier for damage. Your DM might allow for as much as 1d6, but rods aren't generally considered weapons. At best, it's comparable to a club. And remember that even if the rod is immovable, it can suffer damage and be broken.
This is really funny because I JUST YESTERDAY posted a question about immovable rods in the "Dms only" forum lol! ( https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/dungeon-masters-only/93517-immovable-rod-but-moving )
The situation i brought up at the beginning of the post COULD be a cheezy/broken way to use them depending on your DM's ruling.
Another silly thing that my party has done before is used 2 immovable rods alternatingly to "climb" nothing lol
If you and your DM have already agreed to purely cosmetic changes, no further action need be taken. They can do whatever you guys want in a fight and when you actually want to use the immovability feature, you expend an action.
As a separate question, since it seems Immovable Rods are coming up lately, would DMs allow a player to add Athletics to their DC 30 STR check to budge the Rod? Should Goliaths or firbolgs get advantage because of their build?
I think the DC 30 straight STR is to ensure that it is completely IMMOVABLE by anything short of a crazy strong monster. cause even a level 20 barbarian with 24 STR can only roll a 27 STR check. So i think the 30 DC is a formal rules way of saying "impossible for a player"
allowing athletics makes it possible! which would mean the player is applying the 8000lbs of force needed to move it which is silly lol. BUT if your campaign is light hearted enough (most of mine are) than sure why not lol! I make most of my ruling decisions based on "will allowing this make the game night more fun?" and if your barbarian rolling a 31 athletics and popping a blood vessel to use superman level strength makes your whole table laugh, then by all means!!
That was sort of the gist of our conversation so far, that is takes time for the magic to kick in as a possible explanation, which I can buy although in your example I think drinking a healing potion wouldn't be quite the same thing. It could easily take me 3 seconds to drink a cup of water where as pressing a button is fractions of a second. I figured they would count as 'clubs' but I'm actually better off just hitting with my fists even if they were so my plan was to just hit people with my unarmed attacks, not the Rod itself in most cases.
The problem here is that I want to be able to use that feature in combat. If I'm required to use my action to activate it, I can't really be doing anything else in combat and as I'm the primary melee combatant of the party that won't really work. The example I gave my DM was using Flurry of Blows to punch someone in the leg, activate the Immovable Rod to leave it floating behind their knee then hit them high and knock them backwards as they trip over the Rod. Mechanically speaking, nothing new is happening here (activate Flurry of Blows, hit opponent and force Dex save or be knocked prone) but narratively this is a lot more interesting and creates a more dynamic battlefield.
I feel justified asking my DM to allow the Rod to be activated using the free "interact with environment" action I mentioned in my first post and I think he would go along with it. You still only get one of those an action so you can't be turning it on and off like a flashlight or something silly like that. What I wanted was to see if doing so opens up some kind of Pandora's Box of trouble that neither of us have foreseen yet.
As long as this holds true I don't see anything wrong with what you're doing. Immovable Rods are the kind of thing that is harmless fun 98% of the time and then world-shattering the other 2% of the time. A lot of DMs are so averse to running into that 2% that they treat IRs like sticks of dynamite. But as long as you and your DM are in agreement and you both act in good faith with the intention of making the game fun for all, I think a little houseruling on IRs would be fine. Maybe a little jolt of ki could speed up their activation...
This is some really cool imagery the more I think about it. Think about what someone like Jackie Chan could pull off with a couple of Immovable Rods. It would be the kind of scene you'd need to rewind and play back 3 times in slow motion to fully appreciate. Awesome.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I feel like we're on the same page here. The example you gave was you doing something that you already get to do (trip someone using Open Hand style), but just using the Rod. I think you can already guess that the bigger the ask grows, the bigger the Pandora's box grows. Can you get a dude in a guillotine leg-choke and then salmon-ladder your full movement up in the air and then drop him? No. Can you do a stunning strike, but you describe it to your DM as letting the guy grab the Rod and then he spends his turn looking stupid trying to hit you with it, while you Flurry of Blows two other guys? Hell, yeah. That sounds like a Jet Li move.
If the way you want to use it in combat is to pin someone in place, or to bar a door, well, that's what everyone uses it in combat for, so you have to use it the same way everyone else does, by expending an action.
I think I see what you're saying, using it narratively wouldn't require an action but using it in a more traditional fashion would. I can see where there is a lot of grey area in between that might be tricky but it seems like a reasonable middle ground.
Immediately thought of the Thief Rogue and this ability when I read through this thread.
First of all, I know that this ability does not allow you to activate magic items as a bonus action. BUT, maybe your DM is open to you using fast hands on specifically the Immovable Rod, and no other magic items. If you are really desperate to have a way to use them as something less obtrusive than an action, this seems like a reasonable thing to discuss with the DM.
Alternatively, for a RAW friendly approach, you could dip into fighter. Action Surge will allow you to do normal combat things and activate the rod in one turn.
This has me thinking about how sais are actually used. They were used to defend against drunk samurai weilding swords, pin limbs to the ground or walls, dislocate joints, pretty much disable the opponent without causing too much lasting harm. Having a magic item that activates to affect movement is in line with this thinking. You could come up with an item like a sai that on a successful hit requires them to make a successful STR check against 30 to escape at the cost of losing the weapon until it is retrieved. The weapon self activates once it makes successful contact and is released. To be consistent with the activating magic item rules, you could state that they are activated when they are drawn, but their activation is delayed until release. Fireball has a delayed version, so there is precedent for magic basically 'holding its action(???)' before the energy is released.
Either way, look up how sais are used and some of the neat history behind them. Also watch the TMNT Raphael use them completely wrong, haha
IMHO, Earthdawn is still the best fantasy realm, Shadowrun is the best Sci-Fi realm, and Dark Sun is the best D&D realm.
Captain marvel comes to mind
"The Athletics skill reflects aptitude in certain kinds of Strength checks... [and] covers difficult situations you encounter while climbing, jumping, or swimming" so I wouldn't rule that 5e's version of athletics applies.
In both cases of:
Powerful Build
You count as one size larger when determining your carrying capacity and the weight you can push, drag, or lift.
which refers back to,
Size and Strength. Larger creatures can bear more weight, whereas Tiny creatures can carry less. For each size category above Medium, double the creature's carrying capacity and the amount it can push, drag, or lift. For a Tiny creature, halve these weights.
Personally, I'd allow advantage for a reasonably braced push, lift or pull but that's my personal take.