Why do everyone keep saying Lorehold gives unlimited healing? Is reading comprehension that rare? It grants an average of 7 temp hp at level 1 and 11 at 20. TEMPORARY hp. Temporary. It has its own rules, including that it doesn't stack, and won't revive you from 0 hp, or even stabilize you. It's not really any nuttier then Dark One's Blessing.,
Mitigation is just as powerful as actual healing, and when you can set the party up with 10 temp HP at level 1? It's busted. It's 100 percent different in the fact that Dark Ones Blessing has clauses. This is just hey, you get it. Here you go.
I mean the artillerist artificer also has a turret that churns out free temp hp, unlimited, AND to multiple targets. I never saw anyone ban that for being broken.
Actually that is not free as the turret boofs away in an hour and you have to spend a spell slot to get it back.
There is actually no other class/subclass that gifts THP for free completely....the last one that tried was Armorer Artificer and that got nerfed hard. (PB number of uses per LONG rest...oof)
The only other thing similar is the False Life invocation for warlock which basically gives you 8 THP all the time but you have to reup every hour (its not really a big deal as its free).
This still costs something though as you are giving up another invocation to get it so you have opportunity cost.
Regardless, this is the kinda thing that usually gets nerfed between UA and publication. When the book comes out, I'm sure we'll see this with a "you can do this as many times as your proficiency bonus/casting modifier" type rider on it. I'm not worried that it'll break the game.
Why do everyone keep saying Lorehold gives unlimited healing? Is reading comprehension that rare? It grants an average of 7 temp hp at level 1 and 11 at 20. TEMPORARY hp. Temporary. It has its own rules, including that it doesn't stack, and won't revive you from 0 hp, or even stabilize you. It's not really any nuttier then Dark One's Blessing.,
Mitigation is just as powerful as actual healing, and when you can set the party up with 10 temp HP at level 1? It's busted. It's 100 percent different in the fact that Dark Ones Blessing has clauses. This is just hey, you get it. Here you go.
I mean the artillerist artificer also has a turret that churns out free temp hp, unlimited, AND to multiple targets. I never saw anyone ban that for being broken.
Actually that is not free as the turret boofs away in an hour and you have to spend a spell slot to get it back.
There is actually no other class/subclass that gifts THP for free completely....the last one that tried was Armorer Artificer and that got nerfed hard. (PB number of uses per LONG rest...oof)
The only other thing similar is the False Life invocation for warlock which basically gives you 8 THP all the time but you have to reup every hour (its not really a big deal as its free).
This still costs something though as you are giving up another invocation to get it so you have opportunity cost.
Regardless, this is the kinda thing that usually gets nerfed between UA and publication. When the book comes out, I'm sure we'll see this with a "you can do this as many times as your proficiency bonus/casting modifier" type rider on it. I'm not worried that it'll break the game.
Agreed I am assuming it will be PB number of times per rest maybe?
However I thought they were going to fix Twilight cleric but the THP Channel Divinity they get clearly outpaces anything similar to it.
Peace Cleric d4 to attacks/saves is also crazy good early on with Bless as you are adding 2d4 to attacks and saves which just wrecks bounded accuracy.
I do not fully trust them to make balanced changes as these examples (and hexblade) show.
My first thought is that this is going to be 3-4x the amount of work for dndbeyond's staff.
The current system means they need to build each subclass separately for each class and I don't think they have the ability to just let you choose which subclass feature you get when there's multiple options.
If we forget the Warlock, Cleric, power, half-and-martial classes, slightly odd features, and that, we're left with:
MtG setting books getting ALL THE FUN STUFF. C'mon! Where were Tasha's big bonkers spell backgrounds, or Tasha's new Mythic Actions and Piety system? Where were Tasha's mix-and-match subclasses?
You have to keep in mind (and this is a thing in this thread in general) that D&D settings are designed for D&D first. Magic settings are designed for a card game, and thus they tend to have some rpg classes be significantly more common than others, and/or an intense focus on factions, and/or lore elements that translate into absolutely bats*** mechanics, and so on. Plus almost all of them have significantly higher magic levels than most D&D settings, albeit in very, very different ways.
For example: The thing about Strixhaven is that it's a mage school. Meaning that martial classes and partial classes are naturally going to be very hard to find and at a serious disadvantage in this setting. Therefore, if you as a player are basically forced to play a full caster, you'll want as many options as possible in order to make up for a relative lack of class options.
As for your other points, the guild backgrounds are because of just how absurdly important the guilds are to Ravnica (more so than the Dragonmarked Houses are to Ravnica), and to incentivize players to play guild-aligned characters. The piety system is because religion is much more important in Theros than in other settings (as the Gods take a much more active role in daily life), meaning that piety wouldn't make much sense almost anywhere else.
As for Mythic Actions, 1) Tasha's didn't have much about monsters in the first place and 2) I wouldn't be surprised if we see them again in a different book. The name has a very Theros-y feel to it, but the mechanic itself is generic enough that I see no reason it won't come back in a different setting.
Yeah, the flavor with warlocks is kinda weird, but it seems that being a warlock on Strixhaven is less about making a direct deal with a dark, shady entity and more about drawing power from such entities in some way (it made more sense in my head). My guess as to why clerics got shafted is that they wanted this to focus on arcane casters (and I think druids would be considered arcane casters on Strixhaven). And because clerics have too many subclasses in the first place. Also, yeah, Prismari should have bards.
I love this. It's really feeling like we're moving into 5.5 era without ya know, the weirdness of making older stuff just obsolete. I like this. I feel like the UA's typically throw in class abilities that feel like power creep, but I feel like this time a lot of the traits were underwhelming by design? To see if we notice? Quantum Tunneling specifically feels like, for a level 14+ ability, a bit underwhelming. I bet the final design will feel a little more epic.
Clerics technically get 5 subclass features, with their 2nd level feature being their subclass specific Channel Divinity. Making these cross class subclasses work with Clerics as they are would be next to impossible I feel. Clerics would need subclasses specially designed for them to work.
As for why Bards aren't eligible for the Prismari mage despite fitting the creativity flavor seems to be because of their lack of elemental spells in their spell list. If this subclass had gotten an extended spell list with elemental spells it could work but they didn't get such a spell list extension.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Clerics technically get 5 subclass features, with their 2nd level feature being their subclass specific Channel Divinity. Making these cross class subclasses work with Clerics as they are would be next to impossible I feel. Clerics would need subclasses specially designed for them to work.
As for why Bards aren't eligible for the Prismari mage despite fitting the creativity flavor seems to be because of their lack of elemental spells in their spell list. If this subclass had gotten an extended spell list with elemental spells it could work but they didn't get such a spell list extension.
I wondered about this so I did some thinking around it:
Under the UA system which sets the subclass features at 1+, 6+, 10+, 14+
Bards get one less feature but they get their choice of either the 10+ or the 14+ Sorcerers choose the order of their 10+ and 14+ features they get.
Cleric subclass features: 1, 2, 6, 8, 17
The same logic applied directly clerics would get no feature at 2nd, no feature at 8th and then their choice of their 10+ or their 14+ at level 17 like bards get at 14. Note also Cleric subclasses are structured such that they get a channel divinity option at 2nd and either divine strikes or potent cantrips at 8th. Sliding the level 10 feature 2 levels early is an option... but then that would be wildly different from any other cleric's level 8 subclass feature.
There's a pretty simple solution though, use Tasha's Class Feature Variants.
Level 2 - Channel Divinity: Harness Divine Power (regaining spell slots is both handy and thematically appropriate for studying in a magic school) Level 8 - Blessed Strikes. (Applies to cantrips and weapon attacks)
Bam, then Clerics progress with these Strixhaven subclasses like Bards do.
Alternately, drop blessed strikes and give them their 10+ 2 levels early and their 14+ 3 levels late.
I think the bigger difference is that some of the subclasses don't have extended spell lists unlike all other cleric domains so it'd be a cleric with fewer spells prepared.
Clerics technically get 5 subclass features, with their 2nd level feature being their subclass specific Channel Divinity. Making these cross class subclasses work with Clerics as they are would be next to impossible I feel. Clerics would need subclasses specially designed for them to work.
As for why Bards aren't eligible for the Prismari mage despite fitting the creativity flavor seems to be because of their lack of elemental spells in their spell list. If this subclass had gotten an extended spell list with elemental spells it could work but they didn't get such a spell list extension.
I wondered about this so I did some thinking around it:
Under the UA system which sets the subclass features at 1+, 6+, 10+, 14+
Bards get one less feature but they get their choice of either the 10+ or the 14+ Sorcerers choose the order of their 10+ and 14+ features they get.
Cleric subclass features: 1, 2, 6, 8, 17
The same logic applied directly clerics would get no feature at 2nd, no feature at 8th and then their choice of their 10+ or their 14+ at level 17 like bards get at 14. Note also Cleric subclasses are structured such that they get a channel divinity option at 2nd and either divine strikes or potent cantrips at 8th. Sliding the level 10 feature 2 levels early is an option... but then that would be wildly different from any other cleric's level 8 subclass feature.
There's a pretty simple solution though, use Tasha's Class Feature Variants.
Level 2 - Channel Divinity: Harness Divine Power (regaining spell slots is both handy and thematically appropriate for studying in a magic school) Level 8 - Blessed Strikes. (Applies to cantrips and weapon attacks)
Bam, then Clerics progress with these Strixhaven subclasses like Bards do.
Alternately, drop blessed strikes and give them their 10+ 2 levels early and their 14+ 3 levels late.
I think the bigger difference is that some of the subclasses don't have extended spell lists unlike all other cleric domains so it'd be a cleric with fewer spells prepared.
Shouldn’t the Mage of Witherbloom Level 6+ Mage of Witherbloom Feature Quickening read like this:
Quickening. A creature can drink this brew or administer it to another creature as an action. The recipient regains 2d6 hit points, and remove one disease or condition from the following list affecting the recipient ends (brew user’s choice): charmed, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned, stunned.
I like some of these subclasses, but there are so many completely overpowered abilities. For instance, lorehold gets a spirit mentor at level one, and its range of abilities makes it really really strong, especially as you can make it attack or “heal” (with temp points, but still) on a bonus action. Silverquill’s lvl 10 ability to turn a fireball into “everything I can see is now charmed by me, no save” is a bit ridiculous. The infusion doesn’t end either, which means that the effects stay for as long as the spell does. In other words, a bard with heat metal can target a creature wearing armor and just....kill them. They’re automatically charmed, which means they can’t attack the charmer, so they just sit there while you burn them to death, retriggering the infusion on every turn, since it doesn’t end until the spell does. I do think Prismari and Witherbloom are fairly balanced, and I think they make for interesting subclasses, but Quandrix just feels very strange flavorwise. The first level ability to tack a better guidance onto every slot spell is pretty broken too, tbh, not to mention you can also bane with it if you want to. I also do think artificers should definitely have been in here somewhere, probably in Prismari or Quandrix, and that Silverquill, which is heavily warlock-flavored, is just terrible for warlocks, which is disappointing. Plus, Witherbloom definitely should have had clerics, it fits so well and is essentially what the death cleric should have been.
I mean, they always overpower the UA so they can rein it in during publishing, since it's easier to nerf than to buff.
You know you're right, but I feel like Silverquill is so obviously broken that it's going to cheapen the value of the feedback. Like it needs counter play and limitations just as a baseline on certain features before we even start talking about how it functions in party. Just feels rushed out the door.
Hi hello, I seriously gotta get more active on forums but. Oh. My. God. As soon as I read through this UA I BOLTED to see what other people were thinking about all of this. And not exactly in a good way.
TLDR: I love you Wizards and I'm so excited for the continuation of your content, but this all really seems like something to consider for 5.5-6E or else you're making a lot of things of the past completely obsolete. I'm only going to be harsh about this because I know that you can change this, but right now this is going too far in too many directions that just don't mesh with 5E.
I had this same problem with Drakewarden virtually being an all-around better subclass than Beast Master and Ascendant Dragon beating out Four Elements (though, in all fairness, those subclasses were definitely pretty weak... I still would have liked to see the originals revised rather than replaced, though. :c). Just to preface: I know virtually nothing about MtG, but since I feel like we're almost all in agreement about a lot of general things like how clerics and bards got shafted and this weirdly connects to other classes like warlock in some way or another, I've been looking more mechanically at some of these things. But this isn't just about introducing features and elements that make those from other classes feel less impactful- this is about the fact that, as a DM, there are some abilities listed here that I honestly don't know how to reliably challenge a player who might take these on.
I'm going to try to break these down one by one and hopefully get some insight on why some of these are very intimidating to look at as a DM, but to preface my verdict I really feel like Wizards is starting to get in this dangerous "power means fun" mindset rather than focusing on creativity and uniqueness (which is really strange for me to see because Van Richten's is chock full of ideas on how to make more unique and engaging gameplay experiences that aren't purely focused on the mechanical face value of things).
LOREHOLD
Lorehold Preface: With what little I know about Lorehold, this not only feels like a way to eliminate the needs for a Cleric or Paladin in a party but also just feels like a way to ensure there's an answer to any possible situation.
Lorehold Spells: This is probably something I'm going to say for all of the spell lists but this one definitely feels like it's custom-tailored to be a DM's nightmare. The utilities in this (Knock, Locate Object, Speak with Dead, Arcane Eye, Stone Shape, Legend Lore) are some of the most potent in the game and make it nearly impossible for me to think about how to make a reliable puzzle for a party without trapping folks in lead boxes. Not to forget: Spirit Guardians and Destructive Wave are VERY potent spells that are given to Cleric and Paladin for the specific reason of making sure they stay up to speed on dealing damage with other classes and never get lost in the dust. Ancient Companion: You remember how I was talking about how Drakewarden/Ascendant Dragon make other things from the class feel obsolete? This is the same thing, but with any kind of companion creature. Having the potential for consistent skill buffs, THP-granting, or STR/DEX save assistance, plus just an extra body and HP on the field, without any real limit is A LOT. Expertise in Perception and Ancient Fortitude also isn't something to laugh at either. Wrap it all together, and I really can't think of any kind of companion that achieves this level of power all at the cost of a bonus action to make it do things. Lessons of the Past: These are all pretty standard buffs but they're all still relatively potent for arcane classes. The other thing about it is that they seem... selfish, if that makes sense? Healer basically says "gimme more HP but not others" despite the name implying something more helpful, Sage looks like it would wish to make this PC the "prodigy character" by being the sole roller of INT-checks and squeezing out some extra force damage to constantly one-up other casters, and Warrior is basically the beauty of Bladesinger's Extra Attack with extra damage on top of it for freesies. And being able to choose on a rest is pretty nuts. War Echoes: WHY ARE PEOPLE UNDERPLAYING THIS ABILITY. Let's clarify: "this vulnerability lasts until the end of the target's next turn and affects the damage dealt by the triggering attack." Yes, the uses are limited and there's a save associated with it, but if this lands then this could almost instantly guarantee that a target takes double damage from an entire wave of attacks from a party as long as they coordinate their same damage types. The fact that this ability can double the pace at which a party can end a combat off of one bad save is TERRIFYING to me, and I can only imagine the possibilities in which they OTKO my BBEGs. History's Whims: This ability is just annoying to look at as a DM. I don't know about y'all, but I do NOT like the idea of playing Rock-Paper-Scissors with my party. One of the big things about being a DM is knowing how to challenge your players, and this basically throws all of that out the window. You can't reliably have your enemies forcing saves against them when they swap to Luck, there's little point to get close and personal when they swap to Resistance, and I can only imagine being infuriated trying to chase them down to rinse and repeat the misery when they swap to Swiftness. Somebody might say that it's a weakness that you can't pick the same two things twice, but I find it to be the opposite because it reinforces the idea that the player will always have some other option to get around you while this ability is active. The fact that they value all of this circumnavigational ability to be reusable with a 4th-level spell slot is baffling to me.
Lorehold Verdict: This subclass almost seems to offer TOO MANY reliable solutions to a multitude of problems. Again, with the spell list and the options Sage has to offer, I legitimately don't know how I could ever make satisfying puzzles for somebody who chose this option without being brutally blunt about shutting them down on things. This may not seem like the "slippery subclass" from a glance, but I can only envision this as a constant uphill battle for a DM and an easy slide to ride for a PC.
PRISMARI
Prismari Preface: Right there with the rest of y'all about wondering what the heck happened to Bard here, but from a glance I'm also just BAFFLED by what about this subclass is "artistic" other than being able to pick up Acrobatics or Performance as an option at the start.
Creative Skills: Like in the preface, this seems to be the only part of this subclass that works towards the flavor, and even still getting access to two skills in a 1st level ability is always pretty impressive. Not mad at it- just mad that this is the only work the subclass does towards artistic flavor. Kinetic Artistry: The wording on this is a little confusing to me in a couple of ways, but starting from the top... if I'm reading this just as "you can always Dash as a bonus action and you can add an effect on it up to your PB" then this is already pretty potent. But if Boreal Sweep and Scorching Whirl affect any creature the PC passes in the movement, then holy moly that's pretty potent. Thunderlight Jaunt is a little more expected when it comes to a balanced mechanic, but Scorching Whirl could pretty easily sprinkle a whole lot of damage all around or just clear a room full of low level mobs for a level 1 character starting off with this. When we take Boreal Sweep into account, keep in mind that prone creatures have disadvantage on attacks and have to spend half their movement just to get up; if this lands, not only would opportunity attacks to try to strike this PC be made at disadvantage, but that creature would also have to have double the player's speed just to catch up with them and try to get back into fighting them. Scorching Whirl is insanely good at low levels and Boreal Sweep would be great at higher levels, and Thunderlight Jaunt could just be a safe move to take all around; that amount of options and versatility is really impressive (and scary). Favored Medium: Honestly, this feature is the one I'm least offended by out of ALL of the features listed in this UA just because it's similar to something we've seen in other classes. My only problem with it is that, when we look at subclasses like Barbarian's Storm Herald, the ability for it to be made into an aura doesn't come online until 10th level. The radius may be shorter, but it's pretty easy to handle positioning like this (especially when you normally want to protect a caster's flanks anyhow and keep them well guarded on all sides). Focused Expression: Extra damage isn't what makes this strong; it's the elements tacked onto it for free. Cold basically imbues EVERY damaging ability with something akin to Ray of Frost, Fire basically lets you cast False Life on anybody in 30ft for free just by dealing damage, and Lightning is a quick and dirty way of nullifying a creature's ability to make opportunity attacks. These are either some pretty gnarly buffs or debuffs, and considering that Druid/Sorcerer/Wizard are all regularly dealing damage means that every creature they fight is just going to get an extra dose of misery just because. No choice of Favored Medium is really the wrong one it seems, so I at least am grateful that they elect to offer players the choice of flavor on if they want to buff or debuff. Impeccable Physicality: I know that capstones are supposed to be pretty powerful, but this one honestly frightens me. I've always thought that I could reliably take casters down a peg by forcing them to make DEX saves, but this feature spits in the face of that. Let's be clear: this not only treats 1-9s of DEX saves as 10s, but it grants proficiency in DEX saves too. By 14th level with a PB of +5, that means that a caster with this subclass can't roll lower than a 15 on a DEX save. A sensible player would see this and up their DEX a bit to make that an even higher number, but that all immediately means that all enemy abilities that rely on them failing a DEX save is basically moot if it doesn't have a relatively high DC. I can't imagine my other players would be happy about me making all DCs 16+ because of the one guy that chose Prismari...
Prismari Verdict: Not going to lie, this subclass seems like the weakest out of the entire UA, but I know that people are really disappointed by that too. At the end of the day, I see all of this stuff more as thorns in my side as a DM rather than something actually exciting and cool to use. It's like somebody gave a subclass a bunch of pebbles to chuck at the DM to annoy them a lot, only until one of those pebbles hits the DM right in the eye and ruins their entire day and all of the plans they had for an encounter. I'm also just extremely disappointed that this all seems mostly for combat and hardly for any of the artistic flavor that they claim is so important.
QUANDRIX
Quandrix Preface: I'm right there with y'all who are upset and confused about why they turned the "nerd subclass" into such a beefy jock- the flavor here just seems nonexistent.
Quandrix Spells: The first offense of many when it comes to the powergaming mentality. Not only are two of the most powerful buff spells (Enlarge/Reduce and Haste) packed in a lunchbox neatly for a Sorcerer to twincast like a maniac, but there are a million other REALLY potent class-exclusive spells here like Spike Growth, Aura of Vitality, Circle of Power, etc. And let's not forget all of the times we've seen Control Water and Passwall ruin puzzles or encounters by manipulating the scenario in an insane way. Giving Guidance and Guiding Bolt freely as well- two of the most potent low-level spells in the game?? This entire spell list is PACKED with all of the things a DM hates to see for being so gosh-darn powerful and virtually NONE of the things that scream "math and science." Functions of Probability: Why did anybody think it was a good idea to pack effectively versatile versions of Bane and Bless freely into a Wizard/Sorcerer's spellcasting ability...? Gone are the days of ever needing a Bard in the party to spread their oh-so limited Bardic Inspirations, it seems. Velocity Shift: This feature peeves me off so much because letting any PC take this subclass would force me to find melee creatures that could reliably make CHA saves- which is NOT an easy thing to do. Do y'all know that infinite staircase in Mario 64? The one that just keeps going on and on and you never get close to the destination, so you're just frustrated and miserable when you have to turn around and give up and figure out how to ACTUALLY get closer? That's the only thing I can think of when I see this ability: trying to get in range with my BBEG to deal a nasty melee blow to my PCs only to be teleported 30ft away, destined never to reach them or get close enough to them to do so. Even if it's limited to PB for uses, what's the point if this poor creature has to bear through 3 rounds of just being teleported back to the start while being constantly bombarded with attacks from the PC and the rest of the party?? This just feels like it eliminates more options entirely for a DM to challenge players, and I'm not a fan of that at all. Null Equation: This is actually probably the weakest feature of the pack, but it could still also prove to be annoying because of how it might stack with other abilities. To be fair, this class seems to make melee creatures miserable, but most creatures that would be hurt the most by the debuffs imposed from this tend at least to have a high enough CON to make the save. Still, assuming they don't, you already have a bunch of other abilities packed into this subclass that focus on reducing or soaking up damage, so now you've just gone and made melee creatures even MORE obsolete. Wonderful. Quantum Tunneling: First of all, I'm rarely a proponent of giving casters Barbarian-level kinds of resistances, and the fact that this includes magical damage is already a pretty insane capstone. But the fact that this feature also grants a character the equivalent of Etherealness/Passwall at the cost of some chip damage is just icing on the cake. Somebody told me an argument that this sort of damage could easily knock down a Sorcerer or Wizard's health if they have to move through a 30ft wall or line of creatures, but... A) who in their right mind makes 30ft thick walls, B) assuming that a line of creatures is a party, couldn't y'all just walk around each other or not block the way, and C) assuming that a line of creatures is a mob of enemies, why in the WORLD would the squishy caster want to move through a mob of enemies on their own (unless you're trying to get away from the mob and closer to the rest of your party)??? Besides, at 14th level, 1d10force/5ft moved is... not nearly as bad as some things could be.
Quandrix Verdict: I look at this subclass and I can ONLY think that a powergamer made this, and it INFURIATES ME. When you combine all of these abilities- the buffs of the spell list, the cheesing from Functions of Probability, the nonsense of Velocity Shift, the halving of Null Equation, and the slippery resilience of Quantum Tunneling- this entire subclass just seems like a huge insult to a DM. Stack Null Equation and Quantum Tunneling together and you almost reliably have found an excuse to "stack resistances" and reduce damage down to a quarter of what it could be. This all just makes a multitude of challenges non-viable for a DM to throw at a party anymore, and I really can't bring myself to agree with that sort of mentality. Throw in the fact that this is all about being a powerhouse and nothing about being smart? I'm just left shocked and confused.
SILVERQUILL
Silverquill Preface: I REALLY don't see the need for this subclass since there are a whole variety of Bard subclasses like it and recently introduced subclasses like Eloquence Bard and Scribes Wizard that meet a similar sort of flavor and feel...?
Eloquent Apprentice: Solid cantrips and solid skill proficiencies for mainly Charisma casters? A really potent ability to start off on. Silvery Barbs: I actually ran a homebrew ability that reminds me of this in regards to "flipping people's luck," but this is way more powerful and unbalanced in my mind. This basically turns spell slots into VERY versatile Luck Points with twice the value by ruining your enemies and saving your allies in a pinch. So much of D&D is the anticipation of whether the odds will be in your favor or not, so having an ability that not only aims to spin the odds away from the DM without any saving throws associated with it and to try to ensure success for an ally or oneself takes away a lot of the fun there in my opinion. I'm really not a fan of the idea that players should play without the chance of failure- otherwise, what's the fun in succeeding? Maybe I'm being a bit harsh on this, but making a PC spend their spell slots on this to try to eliminate the elements of chance that go into the game feels... really off to me. Inky Shroud: Basically just Shadow Sorcerer's Eyes of the Dark feature but with a damage boost stacked on top of it. Not sure if I agree with the flavor, but I will say also that I've run a campaign with a very clever Shadow Sorcerer/Rogue multiclass that was easily able to exploit something like this for some pretty wicked tricks, so I feel like I have firsthand experience with how this could go horribly wrong when factored into the rest of the subclass options here. Infusion of Eloquence: Ahhhh yup, there it is; there's the nightmare. Fireball? More like Fearball, amirite? But seriously, this is just insanely strong, and I'm going to list an important exploit that I've heard being passed around: repeat damage spells. This feature only requires a use to be expended upon casting the spell, not on each turn. That means that you can instantly make Heat Metal into Shine Metal and stick a creature in an unending loop of being charmed by unending radiant damage and unable to try to target the caster to even hope to break their concentration to break free. Witch Bolt, Flaming Sphere, Maximilian's Earthen Grasp, Phantasmal Force, a burning Web, Hunger of Hadar, Control Water's Whirlpool, Evard's Black Tentacles, Phantasmal Killer, Sickening Radiance, Storm Sphere, Wall of Fire, Animate Objects, Bigby's Hand, Cloudkill, Dawn, Enervation, Immolation, Wall of Light, all of the Investiture spells, Sunbeam, Tenser's Transformation, Wall of Ice, Mordenkainen's Sword, Whirlwind, Illusory Dragon, Incendiary Cloud, Maddening Darkness, Blade of Disaster, Weird- these are all of the spells I can think of that could theoretically exploit this ability somehow in this fashion. The charm effect is likely more potent than the fear one for this reason, but neither is anything to take lightly. This really just needs to be revised to have more conditionals; this is too much power to give anybody ever- not even to an epic level monster. Nobody wants to hear "you now have a brutal status effect imposed on you and there's nothing you could have done to prevent it-" not a player nor a DM. Word of Power: I was almost too salty about Infusion of Eloquence that I nearly forgot about this nonsense. We covered previously in Lorehold's War Echoes how it's VERY powerful to give a creature an entire round of vulnerability if the party can coordinate attacks on it, but this feature may arguably be even more dangerous due to Deadly Despair. This is because it's not just a question of if it makes a WIS save like in War Echoes, but it could literally be ANYTHING that they have to fail- any kind of save custom tailored by the caster to ensure they fail, an attack foolishly pitted against the party's +20AC tank, an ability check against a situation designed to trap them into a high DC, etc. With a reaction, any measly spell slot, an organized enough party, and a snap of the fingers, a Silverquill has just orchestrated a creature's demise. Selfless Invocation is sensible and can really save somebody in a pinch, but I've also seen a million people complain about these sort of abilities where somebody has to split the damage. It's just unfortunate because this is the only feature in all of this UA that just seems genuinely selfless.
Silverquill Verdict: This is just packed with possibilities for exploits all in all, and half of this feels like it's rehashing ideas that are already in a million other subclasses that exist but all for the wrong reasons. It doesn't just feel like Wizards is playing with fire when they're experimenting with these sort of features and mechanics- it feels like they're playing with plutonium or some nonsense. A DM should be allowed to exercise SOME sort of level of control over a game to make sure it doesn't go off the rails, but this subclass seems to ignore that in all entirety, and I don't think I could ever trust a player with this subclass at my table.
WITHERBLOOM
Witherbloom Preface: Yet again looks like Cleric is getting shafted, but looking at this subclass also makes me feel a little disappointed that Artificer's Alchemist is getting one-upped right after Tasha's has been doing so much work to try to make Artificer more versatile and viable to players.
Witherbloom Spells: Welp... this is pretty much an entire healer's toolkit, so looks like the importance of Cleric is REALLY getting shafted. Packing Druid with these so they don't have to waste their prepared spells on this is already crazy enough, but giving Warlock access to this all is really just seems like a nail in the coffin for Cleric. (We don't gotta rag on how Greater Restoration is in the wrong spell level unlock but... well... *shrugs*) Essence Tap: Most subclasses tend to have a feature like this that defines an entire paradigm, but considering that most fights last less than a minute, Overgrowth and Withering Strike are terrifying features to look at- especially for the synergy that Withering Strike has to offer later on with its "necrotic purism." We'll get into that later, but one other point to make: Overgrowth could basically function as a 1-minute short rest, which is cool but also maybe unfair to other players who might need longer and not want to be rushed into action... Witherbloom Brew: The basics of this feature- you instantly get 3+ Uncommon-Rare potions that have to be used within 24hrs at the top of the day. Fortifying is basically Potions of Resistance, Quickening is like a combination of more impressive Elixirs of Health and standard Potions of Healing, and Toxifying is just a pretty neat poison to administer. It's upsetting to see how much better this is than Alchemist Artificer's Experimental Elixirs, but it also shocks me to see how potent Quickening Brews are. Just to be clear, this covers 50% of what Lesser Restoration heals and a variety of some of the most common conditions enemies impose (frightened, charmed, stunned). Not having to waste a spell slot on doing that (and a 500gp diamond if you're really trying to remove a charm on your buddy) is really strong, so that's pretty versatile. If you have a pretty good idea of what you're going up against in an upcoming encounter, this almost guarantees that you'll be pretty resistant to the troubles it might try to come at you with. All in all, there's something that rubs me the wrong way about granting these sort of resources for free with this level of versatility. If we're talking about Uncommon potions costing 200gp at a base price, if you had to run to your local potion seller to nab the same kinds of brews, you're effectively being asked to spend 600gp at minimum just to nab three Potions of Resistance. I dunno about y'all, but I would feel really bad about myself as a player if I had to play alongside somebody who just magically generated +600gp worth of value each morning just by waking up at 6th level (and we haven't even discussed the fact that this number of brews made just increases over the levels, good golly). Witherbloom Adept: This is pretty standard, but the synergy this has with the rest of the subclass just causes it all to snowball- especially with what comes next... Withering Vortex: Aaaaand there it is: the end of anybody who wants to play like a healer ever. Throw up Withering Strike to change damage to irresistible necrotic, chuck out AoE bomb spells to ensure that at least SOMEBODY fails and takes the full damage, and this basically spells disaster on a DM's ability to outpace a party. Now you've got a player who's reliably dealing absurd damage AND healing allies with their spells, regardless of whether or not they need to spend an action on it. Bye-bye action economy. And yes, even if it's limited by PBs, this has the exact same problem that Silverquill's Infusion of Eloquence has because it says nothing about how this interacts with spells with repeated damage and infers that it just applies the entirety of the spell's continuity rather than just being once per turn. Armor of Agathys now not only deals 25 necrotic damage each time a creature hits your THP, but heals 12 damage to somebody nearby as well; I have NEVER heard of a way to cast a spell that causes a creature to heal your allies by trying to hurt you, but this just seems like one of many ways to break and exploit things. I'm not going to bother listing out all of the spells that this could be broken with, but it's imaginably somewhat similar. At the end of the day, this is just another example of why these sort of features need harder limitations and constraints.
Witherbloom Verdict: The reason this subclass frustrates me is just because it inherently removes the value of a healer from a party composition. The important healing spells are baked in, they basically are their own short rests, they are a walking dispensary of free potions, they just naturally have improved healing and damage in one rather than having to choose, and their capstone really reinforces that by literally combining the two together to encourage people to play like DPS rather than support. If there's one thing I've seen over the years of DMing, it's that nobody at the table likes feeling like somebody can just naturally be a jack-of-all-trades and do everybody's job better than them. To give this subclass all of the tools of survivability, damage, and healing all in one makes me really skeptical about this seeming fair to other classes when this one has to do half the work to receive twice the results.
I know that people have mentioned how it's easier to nerf than it is to buff, but in all fairness, I feel like I've seen some things come from UA as of late that should have been nerfed but seemed to make it towards the final cut. I'm just... very concerned about the directions Wizards keeps pushing UA content in, and I really wish they would focus in on the aesthetics and themes of some of these subclass ideas they keep generating rather than worrying about creating opportunities for even stronger characters. LOVED Spirit Bard and Undead Warlock for example- super thematic, relatively balanced, but still very exciting to think of the prospects all in all. Might shouldn't always have to make right, and I feel like that sort of mentality is the reason that things like Mystic have struggled to take off for long in 5E. Seeing Wizards rush to try to put out the book on this as well is also intimidating... so I really hope they're working hard to playtest this and see the troubles in their designs here.
After reading this UA, rereading, and then reading again, I have to agree with Kazarts. A lot of these seem to be a bit beyond the pale for broken subclasses. I know that WotC always puts out UA with the intent to nerf them for release, but this one is more than a little too much.
I do like the idea of Cross Class Subclasses, but I think ALL of these are a no go for me.
This is a brilliant breakdown of the subclasses, and I agree with everything you said about their ability to take the control away from the DM, but there is one thing that does limit some of their abilities - these subclasses are built specifically for Strixhaven, which is essentially MTG Harry Potter. In that setting, you’re far less likely to be fighting a ton of melee warriors, and when you consider that a lot of your enemies are going to be spellcasters with much of the same power you have, some of these abilities look a lot less powerful. Essentially, these subclasses definitely break 5e D&D, but I don’t think that’s what they’re meant for. They’re meant to be played in a specific setting, and I think they work far better there. That said, I do think that many of the abilities, especially those in Lorehold, Silverquill, and Witherbloom are ridiculously gamebreaking, and most of this UA is a massive flavor loss.
This is a brilliant breakdown of the subclasses, and I agree with everything you said about their ability to take the control away from the DM, but there is one thing that does limit some of their abilities - these subclasses are built specifically for Strixhaven, which is essentially MTG Harry Potter. In that setting, you’re far less likely to be fighting a ton of melee warriors, and when you consider that a lot of your enemies are going to be spellcasters with much of the same power you have, some of these abilities look a lot less powerful. Essentially, these subclasses definitely break 5e D&D, but I don’t think that’s what they’re meant for. They’re meant to be played in a specific setting, and I think they work far better there. That said, I do think that many of the abilities, especially those in Lorehold, Silverquill, and Witherbloom are ridiculously gamebreaking, and most of this UA is a massive flavor loss.
I get that it is likely designed around the setting, but that makes the content even less useful to the average D&D player. Content should be designed in such a way as to be useable at a tables without regard to setting in order to sell the most books. It seems like a real waste of time and effort for little pay off.
This is a brilliant breakdown of the subclasses, and I agree with everything you said about their ability to take the control away from the DM, but there is one thing that does limit some of their abilities - these subclasses are built specifically for Strixhaven, which is essentially MTG Harry Potter. In that setting, you’re far less likely to be fighting a ton of melee warriors, and when you consider that a lot of your enemies are going to be spellcasters with much of the same power you have, some of these abilities look a lot less powerful. Essentially, these subclasses definitely break 5e D&D, but I don’t think that’s what they’re meant for. They’re meant to be played in a specific setting, and I think they work far better there. That said, I do think that many of the abilities, especially those in Lorehold, Silverquill, and Witherbloom are ridiculously gamebreaking, and most of this UA is a massive flavor loss.
You know, that element of this being for Strixhaven is something I didn't even consider, and I think I totally agree with you on it. Maybe if in the book they also came out with a variety of things that a DM could keep in their toolbox for the sole purpose of challenging these Strixhaven mages (i.e. traps that have added magical complexity that are save-reliant and more, creatures with ranged attacks, puzzles that are more magical in nature than what might meet the eye, etc.), this really could be its own self-contained thing. I'm currently also playing in a campaign that borrows heavily from Theros, so I see how a book can either be independent or how it can apply to core gameplay, so the thought of all of this being applied to core is somewhat intimidating. Still, that doesn't mean it can't be it's own thing. Strixhaven, on the other hand, looks like it would be pushing the envelope to apply to core.
After sleeping on it and taking some time to recalibrate, I will also say: power to the players and all, but just by comparing some of these subclasses to pre-existing ones, I feel like it becomes apparent that there's a huge power disparity going on. Tasha's had a lot of S-tier stuff alone, but... this is almost universally S-tier subclasses listed, if not god-tier in some places. Again, even some of the most powerful epic level monsters lack some of the features that are listed casually in some of these. Personally, despite all of them being really powerful, I think that the order of most to least powerful of these is: Silverquill, Quandrix, Lorehold, Witherbloom, Prismari. I feel like one of my favorite things about 5E is how easy it is to make unique and fulfilling characters, whether they are just inherently strong or have been worked out with much love and care to be made into something great. Maybe this is just my own mentality, but I can't imagine players feeling fulfilled or being happy about "being handed the Golden Gun" with some of these options in a core setting.
So unless I see some major revisions going on, I feel like my only option is to ban this kind of content from my own core settings. I could imagine it being fun to go on a joyride with some of these things for a Strixhaven oneshot, but otherwise I legitimately don't think I could channel the mental stamina needed to actually DM for a party of Strixhaven mages constantly annihilating my challenges in an ongoing campaign. Obviously I'm wishing Wizards the best of luck in seeing these issues and iterating upon them, but right now this is all just... a lot.
Just a quick thing: the Beast Master *did* get a revision in Tasha's.
Speaking of that Theros-esque campaign, I'm actually playing the revised Beast Master and... I'm still not really sure I'm impressed, but that topic might be for a different thread. The revisions to Ranger I am very much a fan of, giving them a lot of needed love to really make them feel like wilderness experts and giving them enough to really keep up pace with other classes- Deft Explorer and Favored Foe absolutely, and all of the options for new Ranger spells and Fighting Styles are very needed. But I still don't know if the Primal Companion options exactly fix the problems with Beast Master, either.
I really don't think the problem with Beast Master has ever been the nature of the beasts you can pick and how they improve (though I've never heard of any DM actually running the low CR limits of animal companions), but more about what you're sacrificing in order to have them on the board when you could be doing so much more on your turn by using your bonus action on yourself with another Ranger subclass. Compare a Primal Companion to something as potent as Lorehold's Ancient Companion and it starts to be more clear about what sort of value Wizards is willing to put into some things but not others. I think that's what peeves me off the most, actually: the idea that Wizards might recognize that they have the ability to make such powerful mechanics, but decide to pack them in on new things that are sort of shocking to look at rather than distributing them to things that are really hurting for a buff.
This is a brilliant breakdown of the subclasses, and I agree with everything you said about their ability to take the control away from the DM, but there is one thing that does limit some of their abilities - these subclasses are built specifically for Strixhaven, which is essentially MTG Harry Potter. In that setting, you’re far less likely to be fighting a ton of melee warriors, and when you consider that a lot of your enemies are going to be spellcasters with much of the same power you have, some of these abilities look a lot less powerful. Essentially, these subclasses definitely break 5e D&D, but I don’t think that’s what they’re meant for. They’re meant to be played in a specific setting, and I think they work far better there. That said, I do think that many of the abilities, especially those in Lorehold, Silverquill, and Witherbloom are ridiculously gamebreaking, and most of this UA is a massive flavor loss.
I get that it is likely designed around the setting, but that makes the content even less useful to the average D&D player. Content should be designed in such a way as to be useable at a tables without regard to setting in order to sell the most books. It seems like a real waste of time and effort for little pay off.
Its litterally part of setting book...you know the entire thing is built for one setting.If you want it in another it can do that but game design wise it's made for the setting.
And they cannot avoid this, the "generic dnd playstyle" that is needed to design settingless does not exist.This is part of the reason PHB,XGTE,and TCOE often is slightly off with what they treat as important.Whilst setting books are practically spot in the setting.It's why content ported from setting books often makes little sense for general play.
The game needs to be built around settings most of the time.Building content without knowing what's important and what challenges their are is incredibly tough.Settings provide a lot of valueable design info.
Some of your favorite content would not exist without setting books.
This is a brilliant breakdown of the subclasses, and I agree with everything you said about their ability to take the control away from the DM, but there is one thing that does limit some of their abilities - these subclasses are built specifically for Strixhaven, which is essentially MTG Harry Potter. In that setting, you’re far less likely to be fighting a ton of melee warriors, and when you consider that a lot of your enemies are going to be spellcasters with much of the same power you have, some of these abilities look a lot less powerful. Essentially, these subclasses definitely break 5e D&D, but I don’t think that’s what they’re meant for. They’re meant to be played in a specific setting, and I think they work far better there. That said, I do think that many of the abilities, especially those in Lorehold, Silverquill, and Witherbloom are ridiculously gamebreaking, and most of this UA is a massive flavor loss.
I get that it is likely designed around the setting, but that makes the content even less useful to the average D&D player. Content should be designed in such a way as to be useable at a tables without regard to setting in order to sell the most books. It seems like a real waste of time and effort for little pay off.
Its litterally part of setting book...you know the entire thing is built for one setting.If you want it in another it can do that but game design wise it's made for the setting.
And they cannot avoid this, the "generic dnd playstyle" that is needed to design settingless does not exist.This is part of the reason PHB,XGTE,and TCOE often is slightly off with what they treat as important.Whilst setting books are practically spot in the setting.It's why content ported from setting books often makes little sense for general play.
The game needs to be built around settings most of the time.Building content without knowing what's important and what challenges their are is incredibly tough.Settings provide a lot of valueable design info.
Some of your favorite content would not exist without setting books.
It feels like they have made aggressive adjustments to UA setting material to be more setting agnostic in the past (Eberron) but I could be misremembering.
Generally once a book is out its material is considered "official" regardless of setting.
Echo Knight is Wildmounte but is still spoken about in all settings.
I feel like you din't actually read my post.The changes made to ebberon UA (be it races,dragonmarks or the artificer class) had little to do with system agnosticism with only a single exception as part of the warforged UA.
Regardless, this is the kinda thing that usually gets nerfed between UA and publication. When the book comes out, I'm sure we'll see this with a "you can do this as many times as your proficiency bonus/casting modifier" type rider on it. I'm not worried that it'll break the game.
Agreed I am assuming it will be PB number of times per rest maybe?
However I thought they were going to fix Twilight cleric but the THP Channel Divinity they get clearly outpaces anything similar to it.
Peace Cleric d4 to attacks/saves is also crazy good early on with Bless as you are adding 2d4 to attacks and saves which just wrecks bounded accuracy.
I do not fully trust them to make balanced changes as these examples (and hexblade) show.
My first thought is that this is going to be 3-4x the amount of work for dndbeyond's staff.
The current system means they need to build each subclass separately for each class and I don't think they have the ability to just let you choose which subclass feature you get when there's multiple options.
You have to keep in mind (and this is a thing in this thread in general) that D&D settings are designed for D&D first. Magic settings are designed for a card game, and thus they tend to have some rpg classes be significantly more common than others, and/or an intense focus on factions, and/or lore elements that translate into absolutely bats*** mechanics, and so on. Plus almost all of them have significantly higher magic levels than most D&D settings, albeit in very, very different ways.
For example: The thing about Strixhaven is that it's a mage school. Meaning that martial classes and partial classes are naturally going to be very hard to find and at a serious disadvantage in this setting. Therefore, if you as a player are basically forced to play a full caster, you'll want as many options as possible in order to make up for a relative lack of class options.
As for your other points, the guild backgrounds are because of just how absurdly important the guilds are to Ravnica (more so than the Dragonmarked Houses are to Ravnica), and to incentivize players to play guild-aligned characters. The piety system is because religion is much more important in Theros than in other settings (as the Gods take a much more active role in daily life), meaning that piety wouldn't make much sense almost anywhere else.
As for Mythic Actions, 1) Tasha's didn't have much about monsters in the first place and 2) I wouldn't be surprised if we see them again in a different book. The name has a very Theros-y feel to it, but the mechanic itself is generic enough that I see no reason it won't come back in a different setting.
Yeah, the flavor with warlocks is kinda weird, but it seems that being a warlock on Strixhaven is less about making a direct deal with a dark, shady entity and more about drawing power from such entities in some way (it made more sense in my head). My guess as to why clerics got shafted is that they wanted this to focus on arcane casters (and I think druids would be considered arcane casters on Strixhaven). And because clerics have too many subclasses in the first place. Also, yeah, Prismari should have bards.
I love this. It's really feeling like we're moving into 5.5 era without ya know, the weirdness of making older stuff just obsolete.
I like this. I feel like the UA's typically throw in class abilities that feel like power creep, but I feel like this time a lot of the traits were underwhelming by design? To see if we notice? Quantum Tunneling specifically feels like, for a level 14+ ability, a bit underwhelming. I bet the final design will feel a little more epic.
Clerics technically get 5 subclass features, with their 2nd level feature being their subclass specific Channel Divinity. Making these cross class subclasses work with Clerics as they are would be next to impossible I feel. Clerics would need subclasses specially designed for them to work.
As for why Bards aren't eligible for the Prismari mage despite fitting the creativity flavor seems to be because of their lack of elemental spells in their spell list. If this subclass had gotten an extended spell list with elemental spells it could work but they didn't get such a spell list extension.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
I wondered about this so I did some thinking around it:
Under the UA system which sets the subclass features at 1+, 6+, 10+, 14+
Bard subclass features: 3, 6, 14
Sorcerer subclass features: 1, 6, 14, 18
Warlock subclass features: 1, 6, 10, 14
Wizard subclass features: 2, 6, 10, 14
Bards get one less feature but they get their choice of either the 10+ or the 14+
Sorcerers choose the order of their 10+ and 14+ features they get.
Cleric subclass features: 1, 2, 6, 8, 17
The same logic applied directly clerics would get no feature at 2nd, no feature at 8th and then their choice of their 10+ or their 14+ at level 17 like bards get at 14.
Note also Cleric subclasses are structured such that they get a channel divinity option at 2nd and either divine strikes or potent cantrips at 8th.
Sliding the level 10 feature 2 levels early is an option... but then that would be wildly different from any other cleric's level 8 subclass feature.
There's a pretty simple solution though, use Tasha's Class Feature Variants.
Level 2 - Channel Divinity: Harness Divine Power (regaining spell slots is both handy and thematically appropriate for studying in a magic school)
Level 8 - Blessed Strikes. (Applies to cantrips and weapon attacks)
Bam, then Clerics progress with these Strixhaven subclasses like Bards do.
Alternately, drop blessed strikes and give them their 10+ 2 levels early and their 14+ 3 levels late.
I think the bigger difference is that some of the subclasses don't have extended spell lists unlike all other cleric domains so it'd be a cleric with fewer spells prepared.
Thanks this is good info
Quick question
Shouldn’t the Mage of Witherbloom Level 6+ Mage of Witherbloom Feature Quickening read like this:
Quickening. A creature can drink this brew or administer it to another creature as an action. The recipient regains 2d6 hit points, and remove one disease or condition from the following list affecting the recipient ends (brew user’s choice): charmed, frightened, paralyzed, poisoned, stunned.
You know you're right, but I feel like Silverquill is so obviously broken that it's going to cheapen the value of the feedback. Like it needs counter play and limitations just as a baseline on certain features before we even start talking about how it functions in party. Just feels rushed out the door.
Hi hello, I seriously gotta get more active on forums but. Oh. My. God. As soon as I read through this UA I BOLTED to see what other people were thinking about all of this. And not exactly in a good way.
TLDR: I love you Wizards and I'm so excited for the continuation of your content, but this all really seems like something to consider for 5.5-6E or else you're making a lot of things of the past completely obsolete. I'm only going to be harsh about this because I know that you can change this, but right now this is going too far in too many directions that just don't mesh with 5E.
I had this same problem with Drakewarden virtually being an all-around better subclass than Beast Master and Ascendant Dragon beating out Four Elements (though, in all fairness, those subclasses were definitely pretty weak... I still would have liked to see the originals revised rather than replaced, though. :c). Just to preface: I know virtually nothing about MtG, but since I feel like we're almost all in agreement about a lot of general things like how clerics and bards got shafted and this weirdly connects to other classes like warlock in some way or another, I've been looking more mechanically at some of these things. But this isn't just about introducing features and elements that make those from other classes feel less impactful- this is about the fact that, as a DM, there are some abilities listed here that I honestly don't know how to reliably challenge a player who might take these on.
I'm going to try to break these down one by one and hopefully get some insight on why some of these are very intimidating to look at as a DM, but to preface my verdict I really feel like Wizards is starting to get in this dangerous "power means fun" mindset rather than focusing on creativity and uniqueness (which is really strange for me to see because Van Richten's is chock full of ideas on how to make more unique and engaging gameplay experiences that aren't purely focused on the mechanical face value of things).
LOREHOLD
Lorehold Preface: With what little I know about Lorehold, this not only feels like a way to eliminate the needs for a Cleric or Paladin in a party but also just feels like a way to ensure there's an answer to any possible situation.
Lorehold Spells: This is probably something I'm going to say for all of the spell lists but this one definitely feels like it's custom-tailored to be a DM's nightmare. The utilities in this (Knock, Locate Object, Speak with Dead, Arcane Eye, Stone Shape, Legend Lore) are some of the most potent in the game and make it nearly impossible for me to think about how to make a reliable puzzle for a party without trapping folks in lead boxes. Not to forget: Spirit Guardians and Destructive Wave are VERY potent spells that are given to Cleric and Paladin for the specific reason of making sure they stay up to speed on dealing damage with other classes and never get lost in the dust.
Ancient Companion: You remember how I was talking about how Drakewarden/Ascendant Dragon make other things from the class feel obsolete? This is the same thing, but with any kind of companion creature. Having the potential for consistent skill buffs, THP-granting, or STR/DEX save assistance, plus just an extra body and HP on the field, without any real limit is A LOT. Expertise in Perception and Ancient Fortitude also isn't something to laugh at either. Wrap it all together, and I really can't think of any kind of companion that achieves this level of power all at the cost of a bonus action to make it do things.
Lessons of the Past: These are all pretty standard buffs but they're all still relatively potent for arcane classes. The other thing about it is that they seem... selfish, if that makes sense? Healer basically says "gimme more HP but not others" despite the name implying something more helpful, Sage looks like it would wish to make this PC the "prodigy character" by being the sole roller of INT-checks and squeezing out some extra force damage to constantly one-up other casters, and Warrior is basically the beauty of Bladesinger's Extra Attack with extra damage on top of it for freesies. And being able to choose on a rest is pretty nuts.
War Echoes: WHY ARE PEOPLE UNDERPLAYING THIS ABILITY. Let's clarify: "this vulnerability lasts until the end of the target's next turn and affects the damage dealt by the triggering attack." Yes, the uses are limited and there's a save associated with it, but if this lands then this could almost instantly guarantee that a target takes double damage from an entire wave of attacks from a party as long as they coordinate their same damage types. The fact that this ability can double the pace at which a party can end a combat off of one bad save is TERRIFYING to me, and I can only imagine the possibilities in which they OTKO my BBEGs.
History's Whims: This ability is just annoying to look at as a DM. I don't know about y'all, but I do NOT like the idea of playing Rock-Paper-Scissors with my party. One of the big things about being a DM is knowing how to challenge your players, and this basically throws all of that out the window. You can't reliably have your enemies forcing saves against them when they swap to Luck, there's little point to get close and personal when they swap to Resistance, and I can only imagine being infuriated trying to chase them down to rinse and repeat the misery when they swap to Swiftness. Somebody might say that it's a weakness that you can't pick the same two things twice, but I find it to be the opposite because it reinforces the idea that the player will always have some other option to get around you while this ability is active. The fact that they value all of this circumnavigational ability to be reusable with a 4th-level spell slot is baffling to me.
Lorehold Verdict: This subclass almost seems to offer TOO MANY reliable solutions to a multitude of problems. Again, with the spell list and the options Sage has to offer, I legitimately don't know how I could ever make satisfying puzzles for somebody who chose this option without being brutally blunt about shutting them down on things. This may not seem like the "slippery subclass" from a glance, but I can only envision this as a constant uphill battle for a DM and an easy slide to ride for a PC.
PRISMARI
Prismari Preface: Right there with the rest of y'all about wondering what the heck happened to Bard here, but from a glance I'm also just BAFFLED by what about this subclass is "artistic" other than being able to pick up Acrobatics or Performance as an option at the start.
Creative Skills: Like in the preface, this seems to be the only part of this subclass that works towards the flavor, and even still getting access to two skills in a 1st level ability is always pretty impressive. Not mad at it- just mad that this is the only work the subclass does towards artistic flavor.
Kinetic Artistry: The wording on this is a little confusing to me in a couple of ways, but starting from the top... if I'm reading this just as "you can always Dash as a bonus action and you can add an effect on it up to your PB" then this is already pretty potent. But if Boreal Sweep and Scorching Whirl affect any creature the PC passes in the movement, then holy moly that's pretty potent. Thunderlight Jaunt is a little more expected when it comes to a balanced mechanic, but Scorching Whirl could pretty easily sprinkle a whole lot of damage all around or just clear a room full of low level mobs for a level 1 character starting off with this. When we take Boreal Sweep into account, keep in mind that prone creatures have disadvantage on attacks and have to spend half their movement just to get up; if this lands, not only would opportunity attacks to try to strike this PC be made at disadvantage, but that creature would also have to have double the player's speed just to catch up with them and try to get back into fighting them. Scorching Whirl is insanely good at low levels and Boreal Sweep would be great at higher levels, and Thunderlight Jaunt could just be a safe move to take all around; that amount of options and versatility is really impressive (and scary).
Favored Medium: Honestly, this feature is the one I'm least offended by out of ALL of the features listed in this UA just because it's similar to something we've seen in other classes. My only problem with it is that, when we look at subclasses like Barbarian's Storm Herald, the ability for it to be made into an aura doesn't come online until 10th level. The radius may be shorter, but it's pretty easy to handle positioning like this (especially when you normally want to protect a caster's flanks anyhow and keep them well guarded on all sides).
Focused Expression: Extra damage isn't what makes this strong; it's the elements tacked onto it for free. Cold basically imbues EVERY damaging ability with something akin to Ray of Frost, Fire basically lets you cast False Life on anybody in 30ft for free just by dealing damage, and Lightning is a quick and dirty way of nullifying a creature's ability to make opportunity attacks. These are either some pretty gnarly buffs or debuffs, and considering that Druid/Sorcerer/Wizard are all regularly dealing damage means that every creature they fight is just going to get an extra dose of misery just because. No choice of Favored Medium is really the wrong one it seems, so I at least am grateful that they elect to offer players the choice of flavor on if they want to buff or debuff.
Impeccable Physicality: I know that capstones are supposed to be pretty powerful, but this one honestly frightens me. I've always thought that I could reliably take casters down a peg by forcing them to make DEX saves, but this feature spits in the face of that. Let's be clear: this not only treats 1-9s of DEX saves as 10s, but it grants proficiency in DEX saves too. By 14th level with a PB of +5, that means that a caster with this subclass can't roll lower than a 15 on a DEX save. A sensible player would see this and up their DEX a bit to make that an even higher number, but that all immediately means that all enemy abilities that rely on them failing a DEX save is basically moot if it doesn't have a relatively high DC. I can't imagine my other players would be happy about me making all DCs 16+ because of the one guy that chose Prismari...
Prismari Verdict: Not going to lie, this subclass seems like the weakest out of the entire UA, but I know that people are really disappointed by that too. At the end of the day, I see all of this stuff more as thorns in my side as a DM rather than something actually exciting and cool to use. It's like somebody gave a subclass a bunch of pebbles to chuck at the DM to annoy them a lot, only until one of those pebbles hits the DM right in the eye and ruins their entire day and all of the plans they had for an encounter. I'm also just extremely disappointed that this all seems mostly for combat and hardly for any of the artistic flavor that they claim is so important.
QUANDRIX
Quandrix Preface: I'm right there with y'all who are upset and confused about why they turned the "nerd subclass" into such a beefy jock- the flavor here just seems nonexistent.
Quandrix Spells: The first offense of many when it comes to the powergaming mentality. Not only are two of the most powerful buff spells (Enlarge/Reduce and Haste) packed in a lunchbox neatly for a Sorcerer to twincast like a maniac, but there are a million other REALLY potent class-exclusive spells here like Spike Growth, Aura of Vitality, Circle of Power, etc. And let's not forget all of the times we've seen Control Water and Passwall ruin puzzles or encounters by manipulating the scenario in an insane way. Giving Guidance and Guiding Bolt freely as well- two of the most potent low-level spells in the game?? This entire spell list is PACKED with all of the things a DM hates to see for being so gosh-darn powerful and virtually NONE of the things that scream "math and science."
Functions of Probability: Why did anybody think it was a good idea to pack effectively versatile versions of Bane and Bless freely into a Wizard/Sorcerer's spellcasting ability...? Gone are the days of ever needing a Bard in the party to spread their oh-so limited Bardic Inspirations, it seems.
Velocity Shift: This feature peeves me off so much because letting any PC take this subclass would force me to find melee creatures that could reliably make CHA saves- which is NOT an easy thing to do. Do y'all know that infinite staircase in Mario 64? The one that just keeps going on and on and you never get close to the destination, so you're just frustrated and miserable when you have to turn around and give up and figure out how to ACTUALLY get closer? That's the only thing I can think of when I see this ability: trying to get in range with my BBEG to deal a nasty melee blow to my PCs only to be teleported 30ft away, destined never to reach them or get close enough to them to do so. Even if it's limited to PB for uses, what's the point if this poor creature has to bear through 3 rounds of just being teleported back to the start while being constantly bombarded with attacks from the PC and the rest of the party?? This just feels like it eliminates more options entirely for a DM to challenge players, and I'm not a fan of that at all.
Null Equation: This is actually probably the weakest feature of the pack, but it could still also prove to be annoying because of how it might stack with other abilities. To be fair, this class seems to make melee creatures miserable, but most creatures that would be hurt the most by the debuffs imposed from this tend at least to have a high enough CON to make the save. Still, assuming they don't, you already have a bunch of other abilities packed into this subclass that focus on reducing or soaking up damage, so now you've just gone and made melee creatures even MORE obsolete. Wonderful.
Quantum Tunneling: First of all, I'm rarely a proponent of giving casters Barbarian-level kinds of resistances, and the fact that this includes magical damage is already a pretty insane capstone. But the fact that this feature also grants a character the equivalent of Etherealness/Passwall at the cost of some chip damage is just icing on the cake. Somebody told me an argument that this sort of damage could easily knock down a Sorcerer or Wizard's health if they have to move through a 30ft wall or line of creatures, but... A) who in their right mind makes 30ft thick walls, B) assuming that a line of creatures is a party, couldn't y'all just walk around each other or not block the way, and C) assuming that a line of creatures is a mob of enemies, why in the WORLD would the squishy caster want to move through a mob of enemies on their own (unless you're trying to get away from the mob and closer to the rest of your party)??? Besides, at 14th level, 1d10force/5ft moved is... not nearly as bad as some things could be.
Quandrix Verdict: I look at this subclass and I can ONLY think that a powergamer made this, and it INFURIATES ME. When you combine all of these abilities- the buffs of the spell list, the cheesing from Functions of Probability, the nonsense of Velocity Shift, the halving of Null Equation, and the slippery resilience of Quantum Tunneling- this entire subclass just seems like a huge insult to a DM. Stack Null Equation and Quantum Tunneling together and you almost reliably have found an excuse to "stack resistances" and reduce damage down to a quarter of what it could be. This all just makes a multitude of challenges non-viable for a DM to throw at a party anymore, and I really can't bring myself to agree with that sort of mentality. Throw in the fact that this is all about being a powerhouse and nothing about being smart? I'm just left shocked and confused.
SILVERQUILL
Silverquill Preface: I REALLY don't see the need for this subclass since there are a whole variety of Bard subclasses like it and recently introduced subclasses like Eloquence Bard and Scribes Wizard that meet a similar sort of flavor and feel...?
Eloquent Apprentice: Solid cantrips and solid skill proficiencies for mainly Charisma casters? A really potent ability to start off on.
Silvery Barbs: I actually ran a homebrew ability that reminds me of this in regards to "flipping people's luck," but this is way more powerful and unbalanced in my mind. This basically turns spell slots into VERY versatile Luck Points with twice the value by ruining your enemies and saving your allies in a pinch. So much of D&D is the anticipation of whether the odds will be in your favor or not, so having an ability that not only aims to spin the odds away from the DM without any saving throws associated with it and to try to ensure success for an ally or oneself takes away a lot of the fun there in my opinion. I'm really not a fan of the idea that players should play without the chance of failure- otherwise, what's the fun in succeeding? Maybe I'm being a bit harsh on this, but making a PC spend their spell slots on this to try to eliminate the elements of chance that go into the game feels... really off to me.
Inky Shroud: Basically just Shadow Sorcerer's Eyes of the Dark feature but with a damage boost stacked on top of it. Not sure if I agree with the flavor, but I will say also that I've run a campaign with a very clever Shadow Sorcerer/Rogue multiclass that was easily able to exploit something like this for some pretty wicked tricks, so I feel like I have firsthand experience with how this could go horribly wrong when factored into the rest of the subclass options here.
Infusion of Eloquence: Ahhhh yup, there it is; there's the nightmare. Fireball? More like Fearball, amirite? But seriously, this is just insanely strong, and I'm going to list an important exploit that I've heard being passed around: repeat damage spells. This feature only requires a use to be expended upon casting the spell, not on each turn. That means that you can instantly make Heat Metal into Shine Metal and stick a creature in an unending loop of being charmed by unending radiant damage and unable to try to target the caster to even hope to break their concentration to break free. Witch Bolt, Flaming Sphere, Maximilian's Earthen Grasp, Phantasmal Force, a burning Web, Hunger of Hadar, Control Water's Whirlpool, Evard's Black Tentacles, Phantasmal Killer, Sickening Radiance, Storm Sphere, Wall of Fire, Animate Objects, Bigby's Hand, Cloudkill, Dawn, Enervation, Immolation, Wall of Light, all of the Investiture spells, Sunbeam, Tenser's Transformation, Wall of Ice, Mordenkainen's Sword, Whirlwind, Illusory Dragon, Incendiary Cloud, Maddening Darkness, Blade of Disaster, Weird- these are all of the spells I can think of that could theoretically exploit this ability somehow in this fashion. The charm effect is likely more potent than the fear one for this reason, but neither is anything to take lightly. This really just needs to be revised to have more conditionals; this is too much power to give anybody ever- not even to an epic level monster. Nobody wants to hear "you now have a brutal status effect imposed on you and there's nothing you could have done to prevent it-" not a player nor a DM.
Word of Power: I was almost too salty about Infusion of Eloquence that I nearly forgot about this nonsense. We covered previously in Lorehold's War Echoes how it's VERY powerful to give a creature an entire round of vulnerability if the party can coordinate attacks on it, but this feature may arguably be even more dangerous due to Deadly Despair. This is because it's not just a question of if it makes a WIS save like in War Echoes, but it could literally be ANYTHING that they have to fail- any kind of save custom tailored by the caster to ensure they fail, an attack foolishly pitted against the party's +20AC tank, an ability check against a situation designed to trap them into a high DC, etc. With a reaction, any measly spell slot, an organized enough party, and a snap of the fingers, a Silverquill has just orchestrated a creature's demise. Selfless Invocation is sensible and can really save somebody in a pinch, but I've also seen a million people complain about these sort of abilities where somebody has to split the damage. It's just unfortunate because this is the only feature in all of this UA that just seems genuinely selfless.
Silverquill Verdict: This is just packed with possibilities for exploits all in all, and half of this feels like it's rehashing ideas that are already in a million other subclasses that exist but all for the wrong reasons. It doesn't just feel like Wizards is playing with fire when they're experimenting with these sort of features and mechanics- it feels like they're playing with plutonium or some nonsense. A DM should be allowed to exercise SOME sort of level of control over a game to make sure it doesn't go off the rails, but this subclass seems to ignore that in all entirety, and I don't think I could ever trust a player with this subclass at my table.
WITHERBLOOM
Witherbloom Preface: Yet again looks like Cleric is getting shafted, but looking at this subclass also makes me feel a little disappointed that Artificer's Alchemist is getting one-upped right after Tasha's has been doing so much work to try to make Artificer more versatile and viable to players.
Witherbloom Spells: Welp... this is pretty much an entire healer's toolkit, so looks like the importance of Cleric is REALLY getting shafted. Packing Druid with these so they don't have to waste their prepared spells on this is already crazy enough, but giving Warlock access to this all is really just seems like a nail in the coffin for Cleric. (We don't gotta rag on how Greater Restoration is in the wrong spell level unlock but... well... *shrugs*)
Essence Tap: Most subclasses tend to have a feature like this that defines an entire paradigm, but considering that most fights last less than a minute, Overgrowth and Withering Strike are terrifying features to look at- especially for the synergy that Withering Strike has to offer later on with its "necrotic purism." We'll get into that later, but one other point to make: Overgrowth could basically function as a 1-minute short rest, which is cool but also maybe unfair to other players who might need longer and not want to be rushed into action...
Witherbloom Brew: The basics of this feature- you instantly get 3+ Uncommon-Rare potions that have to be used within 24hrs at the top of the day. Fortifying is basically Potions of Resistance, Quickening is like a combination of more impressive Elixirs of Health and standard Potions of Healing, and Toxifying is just a pretty neat poison to administer. It's upsetting to see how much better this is than Alchemist Artificer's Experimental Elixirs, but it also shocks me to see how potent Quickening Brews are. Just to be clear, this covers 50% of what Lesser Restoration heals and a variety of some of the most common conditions enemies impose (frightened, charmed, stunned). Not having to waste a spell slot on doing that (and a 500gp diamond if you're really trying to remove a charm on your buddy) is really strong, so that's pretty versatile. If you have a pretty good idea of what you're going up against in an upcoming encounter, this almost guarantees that you'll be pretty resistant to the troubles it might try to come at you with. All in all, there's something that rubs me the wrong way about granting these sort of resources for free with this level of versatility. If we're talking about Uncommon potions costing 200gp at a base price, if you had to run to your local potion seller to nab the same kinds of brews, you're effectively being asked to spend 600gp at minimum just to nab three Potions of Resistance. I dunno about y'all, but I would feel really bad about myself as a player if I had to play alongside somebody who just magically generated +600gp worth of value each morning just by waking up at 6th level (and we haven't even discussed the fact that this number of brews made just increases over the levels, good golly).
Witherbloom Adept: This is pretty standard, but the synergy this has with the rest of the subclass just causes it all to snowball- especially with what comes next...
Withering Vortex: Aaaaand there it is: the end of anybody who wants to play like a healer ever. Throw up Withering Strike to change damage to irresistible necrotic, chuck out AoE bomb spells to ensure that at least SOMEBODY fails and takes the full damage, and this basically spells disaster on a DM's ability to outpace a party. Now you've got a player who's reliably dealing absurd damage AND healing allies with their spells, regardless of whether or not they need to spend an action on it. Bye-bye action economy. And yes, even if it's limited by PBs, this has the exact same problem that Silverquill's Infusion of Eloquence has because it says nothing about how this interacts with spells with repeated damage and infers that it just applies the entirety of the spell's continuity rather than just being once per turn. Armor of Agathys now not only deals 25 necrotic damage each time a creature hits your THP, but heals 12 damage to somebody nearby as well; I have NEVER heard of a way to cast a spell that causes a creature to heal your allies by trying to hurt you, but this just seems like one of many ways to break and exploit things. I'm not going to bother listing out all of the spells that this could be broken with, but it's imaginably somewhat similar. At the end of the day, this is just another example of why these sort of features need harder limitations and constraints.
Witherbloom Verdict: The reason this subclass frustrates me is just because it inherently removes the value of a healer from a party composition. The important healing spells are baked in, they basically are their own short rests, they are a walking dispensary of free potions, they just naturally have improved healing and damage in one rather than having to choose, and their capstone really reinforces that by literally combining the two together to encourage people to play like DPS rather than support. If there's one thing I've seen over the years of DMing, it's that nobody at the table likes feeling like somebody can just naturally be a jack-of-all-trades and do everybody's job better than them. To give this subclass all of the tools of survivability, damage, and healing all in one makes me really skeptical about this seeming fair to other classes when this one has to do half the work to receive twice the results.
I know that people have mentioned how it's easier to nerf than it is to buff, but in all fairness, I feel like I've seen some things come from UA as of late that should have been nerfed but seemed to make it towards the final cut. I'm just... very concerned about the directions Wizards keeps pushing UA content in, and I really wish they would focus in on the aesthetics and themes of some of these subclass ideas they keep generating rather than worrying about creating opportunities for even stronger characters. LOVED Spirit Bard and Undead Warlock for example- super thematic, relatively balanced, but still very exciting to think of the prospects all in all. Might shouldn't always have to make right, and I feel like that sort of mentality is the reason that things like Mystic have struggled to take off for long in 5E. Seeing Wizards rush to try to put out the book on this as well is also intimidating... so I really hope they're working hard to playtest this and see the troubles in their designs here.
Just a quick thing: the Beast Master *did* get a revision in Tasha's.
After reading this UA, rereading, and then reading again, I have to agree with Kazarts. A lot of these seem to be a bit beyond the pale for broken subclasses. I know that WotC always puts out UA with the intent to nerf them for release, but this one is more than a little too much.
I do like the idea of Cross Class Subclasses, but I think ALL of these are a no go for me.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
This is a brilliant breakdown of the subclasses, and I agree with everything you said about their ability to take the control away from the DM, but there is one thing that does limit some of their abilities - these subclasses are built specifically for Strixhaven, which is essentially MTG Harry Potter. In that setting, you’re far less likely to be fighting a ton of melee warriors, and when you consider that a lot of your enemies are going to be spellcasters with much of the same power you have, some of these abilities look a lot less powerful. Essentially, these subclasses definitely break 5e D&D, but I don’t think that’s what they’re meant for. They’re meant to be played in a specific setting, and I think they work far better there. That said, I do think that many of the abilities, especially those in Lorehold, Silverquill, and Witherbloom are ridiculously gamebreaking, and most of this UA is a massive flavor loss.
I get that it is likely designed around the setting, but that makes the content even less useful to the average D&D player. Content should be designed in such a way as to be useable at a tables without regard to setting in order to sell the most books. It seems like a real waste of time and effort for little pay off.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
You know, that element of this being for Strixhaven is something I didn't even consider, and I think I totally agree with you on it. Maybe if in the book they also came out with a variety of things that a DM could keep in their toolbox for the sole purpose of challenging these Strixhaven mages (i.e. traps that have added magical complexity that are save-reliant and more, creatures with ranged attacks, puzzles that are more magical in nature than what might meet the eye, etc.), this really could be its own self-contained thing. I'm currently also playing in a campaign that borrows heavily from Theros, so I see how a book can either be independent or how it can apply to core gameplay, so the thought of all of this being applied to core is somewhat intimidating. Still, that doesn't mean it can't be it's own thing. Strixhaven, on the other hand, looks like it would be pushing the envelope to apply to core.
After sleeping on it and taking some time to recalibrate, I will also say: power to the players and all, but just by comparing some of these subclasses to pre-existing ones, I feel like it becomes apparent that there's a huge power disparity going on. Tasha's had a lot of S-tier stuff alone, but... this is almost universally S-tier subclasses listed, if not god-tier in some places. Again, even some of the most powerful epic level monsters lack some of the features that are listed casually in some of these. Personally, despite all of them being really powerful, I think that the order of most to least powerful of these is: Silverquill, Quandrix, Lorehold, Witherbloom, Prismari. I feel like one of my favorite things about 5E is how easy it is to make unique and fulfilling characters, whether they are just inherently strong or have been worked out with much love and care to be made into something great. Maybe this is just my own mentality, but I can't imagine players feeling fulfilled or being happy about "being handed the Golden Gun" with some of these options in a core setting.
So unless I see some major revisions going on, I feel like my only option is to ban this kind of content from my own core settings. I could imagine it being fun to go on a joyride with some of these things for a Strixhaven oneshot, but otherwise I legitimately don't think I could channel the mental stamina needed to actually DM for a party of Strixhaven mages constantly annihilating my challenges in an ongoing campaign. Obviously I'm wishing Wizards the best of luck in seeing these issues and iterating upon them, but right now this is all just... a lot.
Speaking of that Theros-esque campaign, I'm actually playing the revised Beast Master and... I'm still not really sure I'm impressed, but that topic might be for a different thread. The revisions to Ranger I am very much a fan of, giving them a lot of needed love to really make them feel like wilderness experts and giving them enough to really keep up pace with other classes- Deft Explorer and Favored Foe absolutely, and all of the options for new Ranger spells and Fighting Styles are very needed. But I still don't know if the Primal Companion options exactly fix the problems with Beast Master, either.
I really don't think the problem with Beast Master has ever been the nature of the beasts you can pick and how they improve (though I've never heard of any DM actually running the low CR limits of animal companions), but more about what you're sacrificing in order to have them on the board when you could be doing so much more on your turn by using your bonus action on yourself with another Ranger subclass. Compare a Primal Companion to something as potent as Lorehold's Ancient Companion and it starts to be more clear about what sort of value Wizards is willing to put into some things but not others. I think that's what peeves me off the most, actually: the idea that Wizards might recognize that they have the ability to make such powerful mechanics, but decide to pack them in on new things that are sort of shocking to look at rather than distributing them to things that are really hurting for a buff.
Its litterally part of setting book...you know the entire thing is built for one setting.If you want it in another it can do that but game design wise it's made for the setting.
And they cannot avoid this, the "generic dnd playstyle" that is needed to design settingless does not exist.This is part of the reason PHB,XGTE,and TCOE often is slightly off with what they treat as important.Whilst setting books are practically spot in the setting.It's why content ported from setting books often makes little sense for general play.
The game needs to be built around settings most of the time.Building content without knowing what's important and what challenges their are is incredibly tough.Settings provide a lot of valueable design info.
Some of your favorite content would not exist without setting books.
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It feels like they have made aggressive adjustments to UA setting material to be more setting agnostic in the past (Eberron) but I could be misremembering.
Generally once a book is out its material is considered "official" regardless of setting.
Echo Knight is Wildmounte but is still spoken about in all settings.
I feel like you din't actually read my post.The changes made to ebberon UA (be it races,dragonmarks or the artificer class) had little to do with system agnosticism with only a single exception as part of the warforged UA.
This is fan feelings.
Fanbase problems
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