Once per day when you finish a short rest, you can recover a number of sorcery points equal to one third your sorcerer level (rounded up). For example, if you're a 4th-level sorcerer, you can recover up to two sorcery points. You regain the use of this ability whenever you finish a long rest.
Metamagic (Replacement Feature)
3rd-level Sorcerer feature
You gain the ability to twist your spells to suit your needs. You gain two of the following Metamagic options of your choice. You gain another one at 7th, 10th, 13th, and 17th level.
You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it, unless otherwise noted.
Weave Manipulation (Additional Feature)
3rd-level Sorcerer feature
You can use your innate connection to the weave to cast spells currently unknown to you. As an action, choose a spell from the sorcerer spell list with a casting time of 1 action. The spell must be of a level you can already learn, and no higher than 5th level. The spell is cast at its lowest level, and costs a number of sorcery points required to create a spell slot of the same level. Once you use this feature you cannot use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
Magical Mastery (Replacement Feature)
20th-level Sorcerer feature
You have achieved such mastery over certain spells that you can cast them at will, and have even achieved a degree of mastery over yourself.
Arcane Versatility. Choose a 1st-level spell and a 2nd-level from the sorcerer spell list. These spells do not count as known spells, and do not against your number of spells known. You can cast these spells at their lowest level without expending a spell slot. If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal. At the end of a long rest, you can exchange one or both of the spells you chose for different spells of the same levels from the sorcerer spell list.
Metaconcentration. When you cast a 1st-level sorcerer spell you know that requires concentration, you can spend 2 sorcery points to ignore the concentration requirement for that spell. That spell lasts for its full duration without concentration, and it does not end concentration on any other spell or ability that requires concentration. You can use this ability once, and regain the use of this ability whenever you finish a short or long rest.
Actually I've used most of these features in my own homebrew too! Seems we're on the same page already lol
Certainly more than the 15 they get base. I get that it's supposed to be for 'balance' since they don't have to prepare spells; but let's be honest here, it only rarely works out that way. Especially since wizards no longer need to prep each individual spot and can just 'know' spells now. I also don't have a problem with martials getting a buff, but just because they need one doesn't mean sorcs don't. And even if sorcs DO need a nerf that doesn't mean that they also don't need a buff in other areas.
Buff is a generic term and what you used for the topic, but overall, I still don't actually think Sorcerer need that many more spells, as stated the fact they have a limited number is there too keep them balanced, if you add spells too sorcerer than it's one balancing feature will be gone. In other words too add more spells or meta magics to sorcerer, they would need a weakness added in another area to compensate given Sorcerer is already one of the highest DPR classes around which can beat out any other spell caster for damage.
Bingo. Meta magic is the feature that makes up for the lower flexibility in spell choices currently. I'll be interested in seeing what WOtC does to limit their spell list if they make them a prepared caster like wizards are with the upcoming errata.
The problem with this statement is that it's assuming that sorcerers were balanced before. As-is a sorcerer knows 15 spells max before their origin spells kick in (which not every one gets). Bards, a class that's not even a full caster, can know up to 22 spells and even starts off with 4 (compared to a sorcerers 2). Even Eldritch Knights, a fighter subclass, ends up with only 2 less spells. And meta-magic... Is wonky at best. Quickened and twinned can be potent, but after that everything is sort of situational at best. Silent spell is great if you want to avoid being countered, but RAW it doesn't work if you need mats and a lot of times situations simply won't happen where being able to cast silently will be useful and this applies consistently. Being able to double my casting range doesn't matter if everyone is already in-range to begin with basically. Yet these are things that can't be swapped out or changed and tend to be very situational at best. Seeking spell is actually useful but it's also a very late addition and at the least needs to be baseline. I suspect all sorcs have been taking MMA after Tasha's came out simply because the meta-magic deprivation to make them viable was THAT BAD for the baseline.
I kind of feel like a lot of people see a divine soul twinning a Holy Weapon or a Heal and think it's OP without realizing that said DS probably spends an hour at each level up carefully selecting all their spells and coming to terms with the fact that they'll never be as good a blaster or support as a full sorc/cleric and are, instead, consoling themselves into being the party's White Mage.
25 spells at level 20 just isn't really too many spells (Technically they stop gaining total spells at level 17). A Wizard will know 44 at level 20, even if their DM never once gives them a spell scroll or other opportunity to add to their book. They could easily know 25 level 1 spells alone by that point within the rules.
I doubt they are going to make Sorcerers prepare spells. It doesn't fit the theme. Bards and Rangers are supposed to be 'experts,' so some flexibility makes sense. Even though I'm still not personally sold on the idea of them preparing spells, I can at least see some logic.
But Tasha's Sorcerers are the direction they are moving in design. These subclasses were very well received because of the few extra spells they got. It gave the player some needed breathing room. And they tie into the subclass themes well. Many of the subclass spells are nice utility to have, but are not ones a player normal feels they can 'waste' a slot on. So they enhance the theme without making the class overpowered. I suspect this is exactly what the new class will look like when it comes out. Don't be too surprised if we get a Draconic Sorcerer in the Mages pack that has extra spells based on your chosen dragon type.
Metamagic also needs help. That's the core class feature. Some options are rarely taken and almost none of them are especially strong. I would like to see some changes like:
Careful Spell - no limit to who you can protect from area spells, and no damage done to allies
Distant Spell - maybe increase touch range to 60' (this one is already better than some people give it credit for)
Empowered Spell - no limit to dice re-rolled, or reroll all 1s and 2s
Extended Spell - longer duration, maybe as long as you can hold concentration
Heightened Spell - cheaper point cost
Quickened Spell - good
Seeking Spell - cost 1 point, reroll attack rolls and ignore cover
Subtle Spell - good
Transmuted Spell - good
Twinned Spell - clean up language and allow more spells to be used RAW
I also think you should be able to use as many metamagic options on one spell as you feel like dumping sorcery points into. Let the Sorcerer go nova once a day if they feel like it. There are already so many other limits.
This is much more in line with what I'd like to see. 31 vs 35 spells is not significantly different Sorcerer will feel just like any other spellcaster and I absolutely hate the fact that subclass specific spells can be swapped out - if the spells are fixed for the subclass just make it a generic class feature and let people pick whatever spells they want right from the get go. I'd also like to see more metamagic options or some other class-specific feature. Sorcerer as a class I feel is more in line with a Bard in terms of spell-casting power, so I'd like to see them getting the same amount of unique class features as Bard. Rather than being just another version of a wizard. e.g.
Transmute Spell and Subtle Spell should just be class features of Sorcerers and have proficiency uses free before costing SPs. Sorcerers should get some unique feature at high levels related to identifying / absorbing / reacting to magic from outside sources, and they should get something like the utility cantrips (Minor Illusion, Mold Earth, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation) but that gets more powerful at later levels.
Sorcerers do need some help. I think we will definitely see them all get some more spells from their subclass as we have been with the newer ones. That has been a popular move, and it makes them more payable. I have already been giving any Sorcerer in my games additional spells using the same guidelines for older subclasses.
And the Wild Magic thing is true. People who pick that origin want it to actually happen. I let my current player roll the 1 in 20 chance on every spell . But it still rarely ever comes up. They end up forcing it with Tides of Chaos just to have the subclass do something.
It could also stand to get a larger table. I know that space is limited. But more results would be more fun after you've repeated some a few times.
If the wild magic surge isn't happening often enough to suit you and your player, change the die from a D20 to a D12 or a D10. It will make the wild magic surges more frequent.
Raw wild magic sorcerers should be able to ensure you surge on every spell they cast.
This is done by tides of chaos. Gameplay loop of "buy advantage" then "cast a spell" then "surge to refresh advantage".
Any dm who says no to the refresh (when possible) is deliberately nerfing the wild mage.
Sorcerers do need some help. I think we will definitely see them all get some more spells from their subclass as we have been with the newer ones. That has been a popular move, and it makes them more payable. I have already been giving any Sorcerer in my games additional spells using the same guidelines for older subclasses.
And the Wild Magic thing is true. People who pick that origin want it to actually happen. I let my current player roll the 1 in 20 chance on every spell . But it still rarely ever comes up. They end up forcing it with Tides of Chaos just to have the subclass do something.
It could also stand to get a larger table. I know that space is limited. But more results would be more fun after you've repeated some a few times.
If the wild magic surge isn't happening often enough to suit you and your player, change the die from a D20 to a D12 or a D10. It will make the wild magic surges more frequent.
Raw wild magic sorcerers should be able to ensure you surge on every spell they cast.
This is done by tides of chaos. Gameplay loop of "buy advantage" then "cast a spell" then "surge to refresh advantage".
Any dm who says no to the refresh (when possible) is deliberately nerfing the wild mage.
I understand what you mean. It works in theory, which is why I said that my Sorcerer player uses Tides of Chaos for that purpose, to force the surge. But in practice it rarely plays out to affect every spell.
You have to make an attack, a skill roll, or a save to get advantage with Tides of Chaos. So she can reliably have one stored up between battles through the course of normal skill checks. But once you are in the fight, you have to use a spell with a Spell Attack roll every other turn to use Tides of Chaos for advantage on it. That let's you only surge the other half of the turns at best. And those attack roll spells aren't always the best choice on any given turn.
Add to that the fact that you might not really want to risk fireballing inside a general store, so you are a little more careful with playing with the Tides. And finally, manipulating the surge is fine, but it almost feels counterintuitive to the theme. You are literally trying to turn the chaos into something you have consistent ontrol over. Which can seem a little off.
I'm not saying that Tides of Chaos doesn't work. I'm only saying that it's basically mandatory if you want the chaos to happen even once a session. And by using it, you are choosing when the risk occurs and when you can pretty safely ignore it.
I did just have the thought just now of including a WM class feature where they can cast a spell at complete random from a d100 roll chart. Like, they roll a 25 they might cast Far Step in a random direction (even if said direction is off a cliff or into a group of enemies), but a 30 is a Prayer of Healing, a 33 is a Conjure Fey, and a 95 is an Incindiary Cloud or something. No clue how it would be implimented or balanced or anything, but could be fun as heck to have the chance of a spell at complete random popping out.
Edit: By the way, there is a way to legit make a buff caster. I forget if you can do it in D&D or Pathfinder, but there is a way to get a disease that gives you a stacking boost to STR so long as said mage can remain PO'ed and a subclass that lets you negate the disadvantages of diseases. The result being that, if your caster can stay mad for a long enough time, their STR can stack to insanely absurd levels. Like in the 100's if not higher. Then all they have to do is cast 'fist'.
There are ways to get bonus action rolls via feats or multi-class. To at least ensure the player has control over when to surge.
Now every time I want to play a wild magic sorcerer, I explain to the table that it's my first choice but will change if it might concern any one at the table. This helps avoid "inappropriate situations" ruining the campaign. The second part is at inappropriate times being creative with skills, tools and cantrips to avoid spell casting when a surge might cause problems. Thirdly the refresh dosen't have to happen and if you really need a spell you can go with the reduced chances for problems.
It may not be a fun loop for everyone but as a concept it's manageable.
My bigger point was dms who actively take away opportunities because they either don't understand "tides" or because they don't like it but just didn't ask the player to please not play one. Some players can actively troll the table by inappropriate surges hence why I believe the whole "...dm may.." line was added. But just looking at the online streams I've seen(as a fairer anecdote than my personal experience) the dm was the problem not the player.
I and (most of my players) would rather be asked to play something else than be nerfed due to dm whims.
Now theoretically if a wild magic sorcerer gets 1 "advantage point"per spell slot they actually aren't that weak in fact I would say missing advantage for even 25% of their spells still is decent use of the ability.
If I were to fix sorcerers there should be more ways to get the higher slots by messing with sorcery points or a way to hold more sorcery points. imo The reason it currently has such heavy restrictions is worry over coffee-lock like shenanigans.
warlock/sorc, used to be you could just short rest and not need to long rest really with an invocation, but its been nerfed and has its drawbacks like not being able to cast over 5th lvl spells unless you long rest
warlock/sorc, used to be you could just short rest and not need to long rest really with an invocation, but its been nerfed and has its drawbacks like not being able to cast over 5th lvl spells unless you long rest
In particular it was used to get extra spells slots/sorcery points by short resting and converting ridiculous amounts of warlock slots into "new sorcerer slots" as an infinite battery senario.
The Eldritch Invocation 'Aspect of the Moon' means you no longer have to sleep (long rest). Slots created by metamagic go away when you long rest. Warlock slots return on a short rest. So you can just take short rests forever to get your warlock slots back, then convert them to spell points and then into Sorcerer spell slots that don't go away until you use them, because you aren't taking long rests. The 'coffee' part is because you're never really sleeping.
It's like finding an exploit in a video game. It's a funny idea, and a clever discovery. But it's not really fun in a game, except maybe for that one player. In reality, it would be limited by how much downtime the group has, and how high level you have to be for it to start paying off. It either won't be as exciting as you thought, or one character will hog all the fun by exploiting a bug.
You could maybe create an NPC villain based on the premise. If you want to have a monster that never has to run out of spells. Could be fun for a bit. But it's a gimmick only.
On a whim I created the 'Buff Sorc' origin. This is not intended to be balanced in any way, shape, or form.
'It's unknown exactly how your spark of magic manifested. Maybe it was a sliver of wild magic, maybe a drop of draconic blood, maybe some god or deity, but one thing is clear. Whatever granted you your power it wanted you to be as SWOLL AS HECK! You've trained your body day in and day out, using your magic to make yourself as strong as possible, and have gained a body every warrior and barbarian would love. You gain the following benefits.
1st level: Body of Magic: When you level up your sorcerer class you will always recieve the maximum HP. You are considered proficient in unarmed strikes and athletics if you are not already. Unarmed attacks can be considered as 'weapons' for the purposes of casting spells. However you may not take levels in Monk. If you are already a monk you may not take this origin. A number of times per long rest equal to your Proficiency modifier + your CHA modifier you may make your STR score identical to your CHA score. This ability lasts for 10 minutes, you lose conciousness, or until you dismiss it. This does not count as a magical effect and cannot be ended early by spells or abilities that negate magic. Your fists deal 1d8 damage when using this ability, increased to 2d8 at level 5, 3d8 at 11, and 4d8 at 17.
Buff Magic: 1st: Wrathful Smite, Shield of Faith
3rd: Silence; Spiritual Weapon (fist)
5th: Dispel Magic; Elemental Weapon
7th: Charm Monster; Staggering Smith
9th: Destructive Wave; Holy Weapon.
6th level feature: Elemental Fist: Your fists are now considered magical for the purposes of overcoming resistances and immunities. Additionally, whenever you successfully deal damage with a spell, your fists deal an additional 1d8 of that damage on your next successful melee strike and gain the following effects based on the type of damage. Effects do not apply if they are immune to the damage. Fire: All foes within 5 feet take 1d8 Fire damage. Dex save for half. Frost: Foes movement speed is halved on their next turn. Lightning: Your melee strike has advantage and you may reroll any 1's on the damage dice. Thunder: All foes within 10 feet are knocked back 10 feet. This movement can trigger an AoO from you. STR save to not be moved. Necrotic: Foe is poisoned until they succeed on a CON save. Radiant: Foe is blinded on their next turn. Acid: Foe takes 1d4 acid damage at the start of their turns until they succeed on a CON save. Force: Foe is knocked back 30 feet in a straight line. Should they collide with an obstacle both targets take 2d4 force damage and are knocked back for the remainder of the movement. This movement can be straight upwards. STR save to not be knocked back. Psychic: Foe cannot use both their action and bonus action next turn. INT save. Bludgeoning/slashing/piercing: AC from armor does not apply.
14th level: Enhanced Elemental Fist: You gain the ability to strike twice when you attack using Body of Magic. Additionally Elemental Fists effects are enhanced and the effect applies to both attacks. Fire: All foes within 10 feet take 2d8 Fire damage. Dex save for half. Frost: Foes movement speed is 0 on their next turn. Lightning: Your melee strike has advantage and change any 1, 2, or 3 rolls to 4's. Thunder: All foes within 20 feet are knocked back 20 feet. This movement can trigger an AoO from you. STR save to not be moved. Necrotic: Foe is poisoned. There is no con save. Radiant: Foe is blinded so long as they are within 30 feet of your fists. Acid: Foe takes 2d4 acid damage at the start of their turns. No Con save. Force: Foe is knocked back 60 feet in a straight line. Should they collide with an obstacle both targets take 2d8 force damage and are knocked back for the remainder of the movement. This movement can also be straight upwards. STR save. Psychic: Foe cannot utilize multiple attacks at all next turn. INT save. Bludgeoning/slashing/piercing: Foes take extra bludgeoning damage equal to half their AC. Resistances do not apply to this bonus damage.
18th level: All foes must succeed on a CHA save or be frightened when within 30 feet of you while Body of Magic is active. Chose one damage type. Your fists deal an additional 2D8 of that damage type while Body of Magic is active. You can change this damage type on a long rest. Additionally, Elemental Weapon and Holy Weapon no longer require concentration from you to be active so long as you are using only one. If you desire to use both one the second one you cast will require concentration.
To reiterate: This is a joke class and not meant to be serious in the slightest.
There are ways to get bonus action rolls via feats or multi-class. To at least ensure the player has control over when to surge.
Now every time I want to play a wild magic sorcerer, I explain to the table that it's my first choice but will change if it might concern any one at the table. This helps avoid "inappropriate situations" ruining the campaign. The second part is at inappropriate times being creative with skills, tools and cantrips to avoid spell casting when a surge might cause problems. Thirdly the refresh dosen't have to happen and if you really need a spell you can go with the reduced chances for problems.
It may not be a fun loop for everyone but as a concept it's manageable.
My bigger point was dms who actively take away opportunities because they either don't understand "tides" or because they don't like it but just didn't ask the player to please not play one. Some players can actively troll the table by inappropriate surges hence why I believe the whole "...dm may.." line was added. But just looking at the online streams I've seen(as a fairer anecdote than my personal experience) the dm was the problem not the player.
I and (most of my players) would rather be asked to play something else than be nerfed due to dm whims.
Now theoretically if a wild magic sorcerer gets 1 "advantage point"per spell slot they actually aren't that weak in fact I would say missing advantage for even 25% of their spells still is decent use of the ability.
If I were to fix sorcerers there should be more ways to get the higher slots by messing with sorcery points or a way to hold more sorcery points. imo The reason it currently has such heavy restrictions is worry over coffee-lock like shenanigans.
Yeah the Wild Magic Sorcerer is such an exciting idea for players. The theme is great and it sounds like fun when you read them on the page. They just don't really play out the way you want them to. Even when using weird psuedo-meta-gaming manipulation of the Tides.
The subclass is built around the idea of Chaos. But to get it to play out the way you expect it to, you have to think about manipulating the chaos all the time so that you're turning it into a well planned Order. I can't think of any other class that has to work so hard against the theme to get the theme to appear. Because all of the Tides work is just to see the random effects the subclass promises. By making them not random at all.
Then you have the Surge table itself. The results are all over the place. Some can end up in a TPK. Some give curses you can't undo at low levels, but are barely an inconvenience at higher levels. There are so many stories about a 1st level Sorcerer accidentally fireballing the party and wiping it. I thought that was pretty unlikely. But sure enough, the very first spell my Sorcerer player cast, she rolled a fireball. Fortunately she was multiclassing INTO a Sorcerer, so she had enough HP at the time to survive it. And she was in a room with only her mentor, who was much higher level. So all it did was ruin his house. But it happened.
Other effects on the Surge table are so odd that you wonder if the character would even know they are happening. Do you know that your next spell cast will do max damage? Do you sense that somehow? Did you even plan to cast a damage spell in the next minute? If not, that result might as well have been nothing.
So I think some DMs and fellow players are put off by Wild Magic because of the chance to destroy the whole game in one night. They don't find 'lol, I'm so random' to be fun enough to risk their hard work. So they ban it or try to minimize it, which isn't fun. And people who play Wild Magic Sorcerers are disappointed because they don't really get the theme they came for. The DM has too much control, and the player has to exert a lot of meta game control to get a 'random' result.
I want my players to have fun. I let my Sorcerer player get everything she can out of the subclass. The party is high enough level that they can take anything she can accidentally throw at them, so they aren't mad.
But I really do wish the subclass delivered on the promise better. I like the idea of a Wild Magic Sorcerer struggling to control the chaos within them, not the player trying to control the game mechanics to get some occasional fun out of them.
I think everyone would enjoy the class more if it scaled better. Have Wild Magic Surge be a chance equal to the level of the spell. So a 3rd level spell Surges on a 1, 2, or 3. The more powerful the spell, the more a Sorcerer has trouble controlling it. Maybe increase the chance more for every metamagic point spent on the spell. Then have the Surge table results dependant on spell level as well. So a level 1 Sorcerer isn't going to TPK with a fireball.
You know what, I think I'm going to try to write this myself, and put it in the Homebrew forum.
Haha, this is great, Snowtworf! I made my own buff Sorcerer version over in the Homebrew forum - Sorcerous Origin: Gym. I love that yours is a totally different take on the idea. Who knew there was so much potential in a Swoll Sorcerer?
Alright here's my input: Sorcerers are weaker... in comparison to the game's most overpowered classes.
Said overpowered classes should be honestly getting a nerf, rather than buffing literally everything. I'd agree with "buffing" sorcerer to match the power level of what would be nerfed stronger casters. Everyone wants to "buff! Buff! Buff!" and I mostly agree than in situations buffing is better. But when there's one or a few best options, it makes sense just to nerf them not to powercreep the game into the ground. In general, casters should be getting heavily nerfed and martials extremely buffed, not just buffing or nerfing individually. I know yes I'm changing the topic to "le martials vs casters" but when several classes being literally thrown into the garbage people just accept it while when a good, strong class is slightly weaker than the strongest people get outraged.
But yes, I do think that a lot of the problems of Sorcerer should be attempted to be resolved to avoid frustrations and make the class more fun for people to play, not so they can worsen the game balance as a whole. I think many of the problems OP listed should be attempted to be tackled with OneD&D with the sorcerer. Metamagic just is too limited at early game in terms of the options it brings to compensate for crippling spells known. Personally I'd like to still have the low spells known, but changing up metamagic to make it just work a lot more as a class defining feature
Once per day when you finish a short rest, you can recover a number of sorcery points equal to one third your sorcerer level (rounded up). For example, if you're a 4th-level sorcerer, you can recover up to two sorcery points. You regain the use of this ability whenever you finish a long rest.
Metamagic (Replacement Feature)
3rd-level Sorcerer feature
You gain the ability to twist your spells to suit your needs. You gain two of the following Metamagic options of your choice. You gain another one at 7th, 10th, 13th, and 17th level.
You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it, unless otherwise noted.
Weave Manipulation (Additional Feature)
3rd-level Sorcerer feature
You can use your innate connection to the weave to cast spells currently unknown to you. As an action, choose a spell from the sorcerer spell list with a casting time of 1 action. The spell must be of a level you can already learn, and no higher than 5th level. The spell is cast at its lowest level, and costs a number of sorcery points required to create a spell slot of the same level. Once you use this feature you cannot use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
Magical Mastery (Replacement Feature)
20th-level Sorcerer feature
You have achieved such mastery over certain spells that you can cast them at will, and have even achieved a degree of mastery over yourself.
Arcane Versatility. Choose a 1st-level spell and a 2nd-level from the sorcerer spell list. These spells do not count as known spells, and do not against your number of spells known. You can cast these spells at their lowest level without expending a spell slot. If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal. At the end of a long rest, you can exchange one or both of the spells you chose for different spells of the same levels from the sorcerer spell list.
Metaconcentration. When you cast a 1st-level sorcerer spell you know that requires concentration, you can spend 2 sorcery points to ignore the concentration requirement for that spell. That spell lasts for its full duration without concentration, and it does not end concentration on any other spell or ability that requires concentration. You can use this ability once, and regain the use of this ability whenever you finish a short or long rest.
Actually I've used most of these features in my own homebrew too! Seems we're on the same page already lol
Arcane Versitility might be just a LITTLE broken. Unlimited free Shield and Silvery Barbs would be a hell of a powerful took, even for a level 20 Sorcerer. Especially A Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer.
It's level 20. You're not reaching that point unless you either intentionally start there and/or are involved in a VERY long campaign and by that point I kind of feel like power levels are close to esoteric.
Once per day when you finish a short rest, you can recover a number of sorcery points equal to one third your sorcerer level (rounded up). For example, if you're a 4th-level sorcerer, you can recover up to two sorcery points. You regain the use of this ability whenever you finish a long rest.
Metamagic (Replacement Feature)
3rd-level Sorcerer feature
You gain the ability to twist your spells to suit your needs. You gain two of the following Metamagic options of your choice. You gain another one at 7th, 10th, 13th, and 17th level.
You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it, unless otherwise noted.
Weave Manipulation (Additional Feature)
3rd-level Sorcerer feature
You can use your innate connection to the weave to cast spells currently unknown to you. As an action, choose a spell from the sorcerer spell list with a casting time of 1 action. The spell must be of a level you can already learn, and no higher than 5th level. The spell is cast at its lowest level, and costs a number of sorcery points required to create a spell slot of the same level. Once you use this feature you cannot use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
Magical Mastery (Replacement Feature)
20th-level Sorcerer feature
You have achieved such mastery over certain spells that you can cast them at will, and have even achieved a degree of mastery over yourself.
Arcane Versatility. Choose a 1st-level spell and a 2nd-level from the sorcerer spell list. These spells do not count as known spells, and do not against your number of spells known. You can cast these spells at their lowest level without expending a spell slot. If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal. At the end of a long rest, you can exchange one or both of the spells you chose for different spells of the same levels from the sorcerer spell list.
Metaconcentration. When you cast a 1st-level sorcerer spell you know that requires concentration, you can spend 2 sorcery points to ignore the concentration requirement for that spell. That spell lasts for its full duration without concentration, and it does not end concentration on any other spell or ability that requires concentration. You can use this ability once, and regain the use of this ability whenever you finish a short or long rest.
Actually I've used most of these features in my own homebrew too! Seems we're on the same page already lol
Arcane Versitility might be just a LITTLE broken. Unlimited free Shield and Silvery Barbs would be a hell of a powerful took, even for a level 20 Sorcerer. Especially A Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer.
No more OP than it is for an 18th level Wizard. (And I would go misty step over silvery barbs).
Actually I've used most of these features in my own homebrew too! Seems we're on the same page already lol
Never heard of a muscle mage before?
The problem with this statement is that it's assuming that sorcerers were balanced before. As-is a sorcerer knows 15 spells max before their origin spells kick in (which not every one gets). Bards, a class that's not even a full caster, can know up to 22 spells and even starts off with 4 (compared to a sorcerers 2). Even Eldritch Knights, a fighter subclass, ends up with only 2 less spells. And meta-magic... Is wonky at best. Quickened and twinned can be potent, but after that everything is sort of situational at best. Silent spell is great if you want to avoid being countered, but RAW it doesn't work if you need mats and a lot of times situations simply won't happen where being able to cast silently will be useful and this applies consistently. Being able to double my casting range doesn't matter if everyone is already in-range to begin with basically. Yet these are things that can't be swapped out or changed and tend to be very situational at best. Seeking spell is actually useful but it's also a very late addition and at the least needs to be baseline. I suspect all sorcs have been taking MMA after Tasha's came out simply because the meta-magic deprivation to make them viable was THAT BAD for the baseline.
I kind of feel like a lot of people see a divine soul twinning a Holy Weapon or a Heal and think it's OP without realizing that said DS probably spends an hour at each level up carefully selecting all their spells and coming to terms with the fact that they'll never be as good a blaster or support as a full sorc/cleric and are, instead, consoling themselves into being the party's White Mage.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/homebrew-house-rules/157859-sorcerous-origin-gym
I made something inspired by Yurei's Buff Sorcerer...
oh god, limby the lumberjack sorcerer, lets make buff sorcerers!
This is much more in line with what I'd like to see. 31 vs 35 spells is not significantly different Sorcerer will feel just like any other spellcaster and I absolutely hate the fact that subclass specific spells can be swapped out - if the spells are fixed for the subclass just make it a generic class feature and let people pick whatever spells they want right from the get go. I'd also like to see more metamagic options or some other class-specific feature. Sorcerer as a class I feel is more in line with a Bard in terms of spell-casting power, so I'd like to see them getting the same amount of unique class features as Bard. Rather than being just another version of a wizard. e.g.
Transmute Spell and Subtle Spell should just be class features of Sorcerers and have proficiency uses free before costing SPs. Sorcerers should get some unique feature at high levels related to identifying / absorbing / reacting to magic from outside sources, and they should get something like the utility cantrips (Minor Illusion, Mold Earth, Mage Hand, Prestidigitation) but that gets more powerful at later levels.
Raw wild magic sorcerers should be able to ensure you surge on every spell they cast.
This is done by tides of chaos. Gameplay loop of "buy advantage" then "cast a spell" then "surge to refresh advantage".
Any dm who says no to the refresh (when possible) is deliberately nerfing the wild mage.
I understand what you mean. It works in theory, which is why I said that my Sorcerer player uses Tides of Chaos for that purpose, to force the surge. But in practice it rarely plays out to affect every spell.
You have to make an attack, a skill roll, or a save to get advantage with Tides of Chaos. So she can reliably have one stored up between battles through the course of normal skill checks. But once you are in the fight, you have to use a spell with a Spell Attack roll every other turn to use Tides of Chaos for advantage on it. That let's you only surge the other half of the turns at best. And those attack roll spells aren't always the best choice on any given turn.
Add to that the fact that you might not really want to risk fireballing inside a general store, so you are a little more careful with playing with the Tides. And finally, manipulating the surge is fine, but it almost feels counterintuitive to the theme. You are literally trying to turn the chaos into something you have consistent ontrol over. Which can seem a little off.
I'm not saying that Tides of Chaos doesn't work. I'm only saying that it's basically mandatory if you want the chaos to happen even once a session. And by using it, you are choosing when the risk occurs and when you can pretty safely ignore it.
I did just have the thought just now of including a WM class feature where they can cast a spell at complete random from a d100 roll chart. Like, they roll a 25 they might cast Far Step in a random direction (even if said direction is off a cliff or into a group of enemies), but a 30 is a Prayer of Healing, a 33 is a Conjure Fey, and a 95 is an Incindiary Cloud or something. No clue how it would be implimented or balanced or anything, but could be fun as heck to have the chance of a spell at complete random popping out.
Edit: By the way, there is a way to legit make a buff caster. I forget if you can do it in D&D or Pathfinder, but there is a way to get a disease that gives you a stacking boost to STR so long as said mage can remain PO'ed and a subclass that lets you negate the disadvantages of diseases. The result being that, if your caster can stay mad for a long enough time, their STR can stack to insanely absurd levels. Like in the 100's if not higher. Then all they have to do is cast 'fist'.
There are ways to get bonus action rolls via feats or multi-class. To at least ensure the player has control over when to surge.
Now every time I want to play a wild magic sorcerer, I explain to the table that it's my first choice but will change if it might concern any one at the table. This helps avoid "inappropriate situations" ruining the campaign. The second part is at inappropriate times being creative with skills, tools and cantrips to avoid spell casting when a surge might cause problems. Thirdly the refresh dosen't have to happen and if you really need a spell you can go with the reduced chances for problems.
It may not be a fun loop for everyone but as a concept it's manageable.
My bigger point was dms who actively take away opportunities because they either don't understand "tides" or because they don't like it but just didn't ask the player to please not play one. Some players can actively troll the table by inappropriate surges hence why I believe the whole "...dm may.." line was added. But just looking at the online streams I've seen(as a fairer anecdote than my personal experience) the dm was the problem not the player.
I and (most of my players) would rather be asked to play something else than be nerfed due to dm whims.
Now theoretically if a wild magic sorcerer gets 1 "advantage point"per spell slot they actually aren't that weak in fact I would say missing advantage for even 25% of their spells still is decent use of the ability.
If I were to fix sorcerers there should be more ways to get the higher slots by messing with sorcery points or a way to hold more sorcery points. imo The reason it currently has such heavy restrictions is worry over coffee-lock like shenanigans.
Coffee-lock?
warlock/sorc, used to be you could just short rest and not need to long rest really with an invocation, but its been nerfed and has its drawbacks like not being able to cast over 5th lvl spells unless you long rest
In particular it was used to get extra spells slots/sorcery points by short resting and converting ridiculous amounts of warlock slots into "new sorcerer slots" as an infinite battery senario.
The Eldritch Invocation 'Aspect of the Moon' means you no longer have to sleep (long rest). Slots created by metamagic go away when you long rest. Warlock slots return on a short rest. So you can just take short rests forever to get your warlock slots back, then convert them to spell points and then into Sorcerer spell slots that don't go away until you use them, because you aren't taking long rests. The 'coffee' part is because you're never really sleeping.
It's like finding an exploit in a video game. It's a funny idea, and a clever discovery. But it's not really fun in a game, except maybe for that one player. In reality, it would be limited by how much downtime the group has, and how high level you have to be for it to start paying off. It either won't be as exciting as you thought, or one character will hog all the fun by exploiting a bug.
You could maybe create an NPC villain based on the premise. If you want to have a monster that never has to run out of spells. Could be fun for a bit. But it's a gimmick only.
On a whim I created the 'Buff Sorc' origin. This is not intended to be balanced in any way, shape, or form.
'It's unknown exactly how your spark of magic manifested. Maybe it was a sliver of wild magic, maybe a drop of draconic blood, maybe some god or deity, but one thing is clear. Whatever granted you your power it wanted you to be as SWOLL AS HECK! You've trained your body day in and day out, using your magic to make yourself as strong as possible, and have gained a body every warrior and barbarian would love. You gain the following benefits.
1st level: Body of Magic: When you level up your sorcerer class you will always recieve the maximum HP. You are considered proficient in unarmed strikes and athletics if you are not already. Unarmed attacks can be considered as 'weapons' for the purposes of casting spells. However you may not take levels in Monk. If you are already a monk you may not take this origin. A number of times per long rest equal to your Proficiency modifier + your CHA modifier you may make your STR score identical to your CHA score. This ability lasts for 10 minutes, you lose conciousness, or until you dismiss it. This does not count as a magical effect and cannot be ended early by spells or abilities that negate magic. Your fists deal 1d8 damage when using this ability, increased to 2d8 at level 5, 3d8 at 11, and 4d8 at 17.
Buff Magic: 1st: Wrathful Smite, Shield of Faith
3rd: Silence; Spiritual Weapon (fist)
5th: Dispel Magic; Elemental Weapon
7th: Charm Monster; Staggering Smith
9th: Destructive Wave; Holy Weapon.
6th level feature: Elemental Fist: Your fists are now considered magical for the purposes of overcoming resistances and immunities. Additionally, whenever you successfully deal damage with a spell, your fists deal an additional 1d8 of that damage on your next successful melee strike and gain the following effects based on the type of damage. Effects do not apply if they are immune to the damage.
Fire: All foes within 5 feet take 1d8 Fire damage. Dex save for half.
Frost: Foes movement speed is halved on their next turn.
Lightning: Your melee strike has advantage and you may reroll any 1's on the damage dice.
Thunder: All foes within 10 feet are knocked back 10 feet. This movement can trigger an AoO from you. STR save to not be moved.
Necrotic: Foe is poisoned until they succeed on a CON save.
Radiant: Foe is blinded on their next turn.
Acid: Foe takes 1d4 acid damage at the start of their turns until they succeed on a CON save.
Force: Foe is knocked back 30 feet in a straight line. Should they collide with an obstacle both targets take 2d4 force damage and are knocked back for the remainder of the movement. This movement can be straight upwards. STR save to not be knocked back.
Psychic: Foe cannot use both their action and bonus action next turn. INT save.
Bludgeoning/slashing/piercing: AC from armor does not apply.
14th level: Enhanced Elemental Fist: You gain the ability to strike twice when you attack using Body of Magic. Additionally Elemental Fists effects are enhanced and the effect applies to both attacks.
Fire: All foes within 10 feet take 2d8 Fire damage. Dex save for half.
Frost: Foes movement speed is 0 on their next turn.
Lightning: Your melee strike has advantage and change any 1, 2, or 3 rolls to 4's.
Thunder: All foes within 20 feet are knocked back 20 feet. This movement can trigger an AoO from you. STR save to not be moved.
Necrotic: Foe is poisoned. There is no con save.
Radiant: Foe is blinded so long as they are within 30 feet of your fists.
Acid: Foe takes 2d4 acid damage at the start of their turns. No Con save.
Force: Foe is knocked back 60 feet in a straight line. Should they collide with an obstacle both targets take 2d8 force damage and are knocked back for the remainder of the movement. This movement can also be straight upwards. STR save.
Psychic: Foe cannot utilize multiple attacks at all next turn. INT save.
Bludgeoning/slashing/piercing: Foes take extra bludgeoning damage equal to half their AC. Resistances do not apply to this bonus damage.
18th level: All foes must succeed on a CHA save or be frightened when within 30 feet of you while Body of Magic is active. Chose one damage type. Your fists deal an additional 2D8 of that damage type while Body of Magic is active. You can change this damage type on a long rest. Additionally, Elemental Weapon and Holy Weapon no longer require concentration from you to be active so long as you are using only one. If you desire to use both one the second one you cast will require concentration.
To reiterate: This is a joke class and not meant to be serious in the slightest.
Yeah the Wild Magic Sorcerer is such an exciting idea for players. The theme is great and it sounds like fun when you read them on the page. They just don't really play out the way you want them to. Even when using weird psuedo-meta-gaming manipulation of the Tides.
The subclass is built around the idea of Chaos. But to get it to play out the way you expect it to, you have to think about manipulating the chaos all the time so that you're turning it into a well planned Order. I can't think of any other class that has to work so hard against the theme to get the theme to appear. Because all of the Tides work is just to see the random effects the subclass promises. By making them not random at all.
Then you have the Surge table itself. The results are all over the place. Some can end up in a TPK. Some give curses you can't undo at low levels, but are barely an inconvenience at higher levels. There are so many stories about a 1st level Sorcerer accidentally fireballing the party and wiping it. I thought that was pretty unlikely. But sure enough, the very first spell my Sorcerer player cast, she rolled a fireball. Fortunately she was multiclassing INTO a Sorcerer, so she had enough HP at the time to survive it. And she was in a room with only her mentor, who was much higher level. So all it did was ruin his house. But it happened.
Other effects on the Surge table are so odd that you wonder if the character would even know they are happening. Do you know that your next spell cast will do max damage? Do you sense that somehow? Did you even plan to cast a damage spell in the next minute? If not, that result might as well have been nothing.
So I think some DMs and fellow players are put off by Wild Magic because of the chance to destroy the whole game in one night. They don't find 'lol, I'm so random' to be fun enough to risk their hard work. So they ban it or try to minimize it, which isn't fun. And people who play Wild Magic Sorcerers are disappointed because they don't really get the theme they came for. The DM has too much control, and the player has to exert a lot of meta game control to get a 'random' result.
I want my players to have fun. I let my Sorcerer player get everything she can out of the subclass. The party is high enough level that they can take anything she can accidentally throw at them, so they aren't mad.
But I really do wish the subclass delivered on the promise better. I like the idea of a Wild Magic Sorcerer struggling to control the chaos within them, not the player trying to control the game mechanics to get some occasional fun out of them.
I think everyone would enjoy the class more if it scaled better. Have Wild Magic Surge be a chance equal to the level of the spell. So a 3rd level spell Surges on a 1, 2, or 3. The more powerful the spell, the more a Sorcerer has trouble controlling it. Maybe increase the chance more for every metamagic point spent on the spell. Then have the Surge table results dependant on spell level as well. So a level 1 Sorcerer isn't going to TPK with a fireball.
You know what, I think I'm going to try to write this myself, and put it in the Homebrew forum.
Haha, this is great, Snowtworf! I made my own buff Sorcerer version over in the Homebrew forum - Sorcerous Origin: Gym. I love that yours is a totally different take on the idea. Who knew there was so much potential in a Swoll Sorcerer?
Alright here's my input: Sorcerers are weaker... in comparison to the game's most overpowered classes.
Said overpowered classes should be honestly getting a nerf, rather than buffing literally everything. I'd agree with "buffing" sorcerer to match the power level of what would be nerfed stronger casters. Everyone wants to "buff! Buff! Buff!" and I mostly agree than in situations buffing is better. But when there's one or a few best options, it makes sense just to nerf them not to powercreep the game into the ground. In general, casters should be getting heavily nerfed and martials extremely buffed, not just buffing or nerfing individually. I know yes I'm changing the topic to "le martials vs casters" but when several classes being literally thrown into the garbage people just accept it while when a good, strong class is slightly weaker than the strongest people get outraged.
But yes, I do think that a lot of the problems of Sorcerer should be attempted to be resolved to avoid frustrations and make the class more fun for people to play, not so they can worsen the game balance as a whole. I think many of the problems OP listed should be attempted to be tackled with OneD&D with the sorcerer. Metamagic just is too limited at early game in terms of the options it brings to compensate for crippling spells known. Personally I'd like to still have the low spells known, but changing up metamagic to make it just work a lot more as a class defining feature
Arcane Versitility might be just a LITTLE broken. Unlimited free Shield and Silvery Barbs would be a hell of a powerful took, even for a level 20 Sorcerer. Especially A Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer.
It's level 20. You're not reaching that point unless you either intentionally start there and/or are involved in a VERY long campaign and by that point I kind of feel like power levels are close to esoteric.
No more OP than it is for an 18th level Wizard. (And I would go misty step over silvery barbs).
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