I am just going to do my habit of late and type what I think WILL happen. I think Sorcs will be prepared casters. They will prepare the same way bard did in this UA so spells know problem is largely solved. I believe they will have access to the whole arcane spell list. They will get an extra meta magic option at level 7, and the level 10 meta magic will bump down to level 9. 3rd subclass feature will bump down to 10, 4th down to 14. Final Meta magic feature will bump down to 15. Sorcerer's restoration will change to when you take a short rest or when you roll initiative and be bumped down to level 18.
Meta magics may see a slight change. Careful spell may allow your friends to avoid all damage, not just succeed the save. Distant spell will look more like the current spell sniper. Increasing the range by 60 feet instead of doubling it, though I suspect the range on touch spells will still be 30 feet. Extended spell may or may not see a change, but I personally hope to see it become a way to bypass concentration for a short time. Heighten spell I suspect will go from 3 cost to 2 cost. Transmuted spell will be added to core rule book.
and that's it. Some may consider this too strong, but this is what I think is going to happen. They are moving to prepared casters for less punishing play for new players. The arcane list being bigger and better is the advantage of the mage group. It is why they have a d6 of health, no armor and no martial weapons. Bringing down the power of the spells is what they need to do for balance of caster vs martial, but this would make a sorcerer plenty powerful without much effort.
Wizards I believe will ALSO be able to prepare from any spell in the arcane list rather than having to copy them in their spell book the spell book will just have them all. And I suspect the "conjurer savant" and the like will just let them change out spells on a SHORT rest instead of a long rest as long as they are changing to a spell of that school. It would be even cooler if you could do that when you rolled initiative, but that is WAY too much bookkeeping and I have no doubt that WOC will not want to deal with those shenanigans.
Wizards arcane tradition will get pushed back to level 3 and arcane recovery will get pushed back to level 2. Spell mastery will get pushed up to level 15 and Signature spell get pushed up to 18. I also would not be surprised at all to see an extra feature for wizards.
Warlocks will be able to prepare a number of spells equal to their proficiency bonus from the arcane spell list from the All schools except evocation or something. The spells on their patron spell list will also automatically be prepared for them (this is for pact magic.) Their patron ability will get pushed back to level 3, but their pact choice will get pushed to level 1. Eldritch master will drop to level 18, but will probably be changed to once per long rest you can recover all of your pact slots as an action or a bonus action or something along those lines.
I'll add that I think the Wizard spell book will just brcome a ritual book where they can have all their ritual spell available without preparing them.
Though I think they will need to add more class / subclass features to make Wiza4ds and Sorcerers feel different if this is the case because turning them both into prep caster with ritual casting and the entire Arcane spell list known takes away most of the differences between them.
Once per day when you finish a short rest, you can recover a number of sorcery points equal to one third your sorcerer level (rounded up). For example, if you're a 4th-level sorcerer, you can recover up to two sorcery points. You regain the use of this ability whenever you finish a long rest.
Metamagic (Replacement Feature)
3rd-level Sorcerer feature
You gain the ability to twist your spells to suit your needs. You gain two of the following Metamagic options of your choice. You gain another one at 7th, 10th, 13th, and 17th level.
You can use only one Metamagic option on a spell when you cast it, unless otherwise noted.
Weave Manipulation (Additional Feature)
3rd-level Sorcerer feature
You can use your innate connection to the weave to cast spells currently unknown to you. As an action, choose a spell from the sorcerer spell list with a casting time of 1 action. The spell must be of a level you can already learn, and no higher than 5th level. The spell is cast at its lowest level, and costs a number of sorcery points required to create a spell slot of the same level. Once you use this feature you cannot use it again until you finish a short or long rest.
Magical Mastery (Replacement Feature)
20th-level Sorcerer feature
You have achieved such mastery over certain spells that you can cast them at will, and have even achieved a degree of mastery over yourself.
Arcane Versatility. Choose a 1st-level spell and a 2nd-level from the sorcerer spell list. These spells do not count as known spells, and do not against your number of spells known. You can cast these spells at their lowest level without expending a spell slot. If you want to cast either spell at a higher level, you must expend a spell slot as normal. At the end of a long rest, you can exchange one or both of the spells you chose for different spells of the same levels from the sorcerer spell list.
Metaconcentration. When you cast a 1st-level sorcerer spell you know that requires concentration, you can spend 2 sorcery points to ignore the concentration requirement for that spell. That spell lasts for its full duration without concentration, and it does not end concentration on any other spell or ability that requires concentration. You can use this ability once, and regain the use of this ability whenever you finish a short or long rest.
Actually I've used most of these features in my own homebrew too! Seems we're on the same page already lol
Arcane Versitility might be just a LITTLE broken. Unlimited free Shield and Silvery Barbs would be a hell of a powerful took, even for a level 20 Sorcerer. Especially A Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer.
No more OP than it is for an 18th level Wizard. (And I would go misty step over silvery barbs).
I don't know. Misty Step is really useful, but it's a tough call choosing between that and Silvery Barbs. I could see the advantage though. Have shield as your reaction spell, and misty step as your bonus action spell for when you're out of sorcery points and can't quicken spell anymore.
I'll add that I think the Wizard spell book will just brcome a ritual book where they can have all their ritual spell available without preparing them.
Though I think they will need to add more class / subclass features to make Wiza4ds and Sorcerers feel different if this is the case because turning them both into prep caster with ritual casting and the entire Arcane spell list known takes away most of the differences between them.
As long as they buff Dragonic Bloodline to bring it more in line with the power level of Aberrent Mind, I'll be happy.
That said, something I do wish they would do is introduce a rule that you have the option to change the damage type a spell does when you prepare the spell, or when you first reach the level the spell is available. I love playing casters with an elemental theme, and I have having to spend character creation going "Hey, can I reflavor this spell to do X type of damage?" Chromatic Orb is wonderful for that reason, though it doesn't really go as far as I'd like.
As long as they buff Dragonic Bloodline to bring it more in line with the power level of Aberrent Mind, I'll be happy.
I think that's extremely unlikely given what we've seen for Ranger. WotC is using One D&D to do a reset power level wise as they have always done in the past with new additions. Otherwise the game will spiral out of control as each new book represents an increase in power to get people to buy it, and each new book provides more options to mix & match to find even more powerful combinations.
While I'm sure Yurei ment their post as only a joke, this has made me wonder that, if they ever made a D&D book with... less serious content... (they've done so before)... a buff sorcerer would be something players would legit want in said book.
While I'm sure Yurei ment their post as only a joke, this has made me wonder that, if they ever made a D&D book with... less serious content... (they've done so before)... a buff sorcerer would be something players would legit want in said book.
Strength-based spellcasting is grossly missing in D&D...
I said this in another thread a month or so back, but I would personally prefer that instead of more spells, that sorcerers get more metamagic. Allow them to have more options and more selected at a time. Maybe even some low-level options that they can just do without spending points too. Almost like metamagic cantrips.
I said this in another thread a month or so back, but I would personally prefer that instead of more spells, that sorcerers get more metamagic. Allow them to have more options and more selected at a time. Maybe even some low-level options that they can just do without spending points too. Almost like metamagic cantrips.
Oh, I completely agree. I mean, a few more spells, especially at lowest and highest levels would be nice. I mean, if their Spells Known column was a little fuller I think it would be a good thing. But I absolutely agree with you about the Metamagics. Something more like this:
SORCERER LEVEL
SPELLS KNOWN
METAMAGIC KNOWN
1st
3
—
2nd
5
—
3rd
6
3
4th
7
3
5th
8
3
6th
9
3
7th
10
4
8th
11
4
9th
12
4
10th
12
5
11th
13
5
12th
13
5
13th
14
6
14th
14
6
15th
15
6
16th
15
6
17th
16
7
18th
16
7
19th
17
7
20th
17
7
And I like your idea about having a couple of (additional) metamagics that didn’t require a resource is a great idea too. Maybe just 2 of those from an early level would be enough.
I said this in another thread a month or so back, but I would personally prefer that instead of more spells, that sorcerers get more metamagic. Allow them to have more options and more selected at a time. Maybe even some low-level options that they can just do without spending points too. Almost like metamagic cantrips.
Oh, I completely agree. I mean, a few more spells, especially at lowest and highest levels would be nice. I mean, if their Spells Known column was a little fuller I think it would be a good thing. But I absolutely agree with you about the Metamagics. Something more like this:
SORCERER LEVEL
SPELLS KNOWN
METAMAGIC KNOWN
1st
3
—
2nd
5
—
3rd
6
3
4th
7
3
5th
8
3
6th
9
3
7th
10
4
8th
11
4
9th
12
4
10th
12
5
11th
13
5
12th
13
5
13th
14
6
14th
14
6
15th
15
6
16th
15
6
17th
16
7
18th
16
7
19th
17
7
20th
17
7
And I like your idea about having a couple of (additional) metamagics that didn’t require a resource is a great idea too. Maybe just 2 of those from an early level would be enough.
My prediction is level 1 we will get meta magic and level 3 you will get your subclass feature, so my recommendation would be 2 meta magics at level 1. Because why shouldn't a sorcerer be a sorcerer from level 1.
Subclass at level 3 sounds ridiculous for a sorcerer. Clerics, sorcerers, and warlocks all have level 1 subclasses because their subclass is an essential part of their character. For ANY other class, you can just say "nah they don't have a subclass" and they would still make complete sense. Those 3, however, have subclasses based on how they get their power instead of just what they use it on. You cannot have a sorcerer without an origin, a warlock without a patron, or a cleric without a domain. The only other class this could be applicable to is paladin, but the PHB has an explanation for why they get their subclass at level 3 (even if it is a bit weird).
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
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Subclass at level 3 sounds ridiculous for a sorcerer. Clerics, sorcerers, and warlocks all have level 1 subclasses because their subclass is an essential part of their character. For ANY other class, you can just say "nah they don't have a subclass" and they would still make complete sense. Those 3, however, have subclasses based on how they get their power instead of just what they use it on. You cannot have a sorcerer without an origin, a warlock without a patron, or a cleric without a domain. The only other class this could be applicable to is paladin, but the PHB has an explanation for why they get their subclass at level 3 (even if it is a bit weird).
You can declare your "origin" and not have it's powers manifest till a higher level. Yes your origin is declared at level 1, doesn't mean that you need to be distinctly different than other sorcerers at level 1. Same with Warlocks, and Clerics. There is nothing stopping any class (like paladin) from having an origin idea at level 1 but not having the full benefits of it till level 3. And right now it isn't my suggestion as much as it is my prediction. They look like they are trying to normalize things a bit.
I really hope they don't. It's part of, well, why they're fun to play in the first place. Change it around too much and it's like saying that you can be a noble, but only if you're democratically elected for a single term before needing to run for re-election and have to function in a system of checks and balances. I hope that comparison namely makes sense. In other words, even if it makes sense and/or is better from a balance/design perspective, it ruins the whole point of the class and a good chunk of why people may be interested in playing it in the first place.
I really hope they don't. It's part of, well, why they're fun to play in the first place. Change it around too much and it's like saying that you can be a noble, but only if you're democratically elected for a single term before needing to run for re-election and have to function in a system of checks and balances. I hope that comparison namely makes sense. In other words, even if it makes sense and/or is better from a balance/design perspective, it ruins the whole point of the class and a good chunk of why people may be interested in playing it in the first place.
are you saying people only play sorcerers for their subclasses and not for their ability to use meta magic?
Or they only play warlock for the patron and not the pact boon or invocations? Or people only play cleric for their domain and not armor and divine spell casting and channel divinity?
I'm saying that the origin is a big part of why people play sorcerers and making it so that the origin has no impact till level 3 would be a serious turn-off for a lot of people who play sorcs in any form, yes. Especially since, at least currently, they get meta-magic at level 3 already and that's kind of a subclass for them as well (not the sorcs fault that Wizards made twinned/quickened/seeking so much better than the other options) and removing the origin giving them any kind of bonus would be kind of like removing/delaying rage from the barbarian or sneak attack from the rogue. It's a huge part of why people play the class. How powerful it is almost doesn't matter. It's that it exists is what's important.
I'm saying that the origin is a big part of why people play sorcerers and making it so that the origin has no impact till level 3 would be a serious turn-off for a lot of people who play sorcs in any form, yes. Especially since, at least currently, they get meta-magic at level 3 already and that's kind of a subclass for them as well (not the sorcs fault that Wizards made twinned/quickened/seeking so much better than the other options) and removing the origin giving them any kind of bonus would be kind of like removing/delaying rage from the barbarian or sneak attack from the rogue. It's a huge part of why people play the class. How powerful it is almost doesn't matter. It's that it exists is what's important.
If meta magic moves to level 1, this entire thing is invalid. People play sorcerer for the meta magic more than the origin. The origin would give a bonus at level 3. It is literally a trade of their level 1 ability with their level 3 ability.
Warlocks would probably be the same thing. Again this isn't what I want necessarily, just likely what we are going to see. Do you really think getting meta magic at level 1 is a bad thing over getting one of the sorcerer first level features.
The truth is that different people play sorcerers for different reasons.
This is true, but all sorcerers play sorcerer not all sorcerers play divine soul, or dragon, or wild magic. You may play a class for the subclass, but the base class is first the subclass should be second.
The truth is that different people play sorcerers for different reasons.
This is true, but all sorcerers play sorcerer not all sorcerers play divine soul, or dragon, or wild magic. You may play a class for the subclass, but the base class is first the subclass should be second.
That’s your opinion, and it’s perfectly valid. However, if someone else plays a Divine Soul first and a Sorcerer second, who are we to say they’re wrong for doing so. It’s a matter of mechanics Vs flavor. Some folks genuinely don’t play for the game mechanics the class provides, they play for the narrative flavor their subclass invokes for them. There’s nothing wrong with that.
The truth is that different people play sorcerers for different reasons.
This is true, but all sorcerers play sorcerer not all sorcerers play divine soul, or dragon, or wild magic. You may play a class for the subclass, but the base class is first the subclass should be second.
That’s your opinion, and it’s perfectly valid. However, if someone else plays a Divine Soul first and a Sorcerer second, who are we to say they’re wrong for doing so. It’s a matter of mechanics Vs flavor. Some folks genuinely don’t play for the game mechanics the class provides, they play for the narrative flavor their subclass invokes for them. There’s nothing wrong with that.
That's fair, but this isn't about what people do, it is about how the game is built, and you don't build a game that way.
If you are playing a class because it has a really cool subclass you like that is your reason, but when building the game the developers should be thinking class first subclass second. Because everyone playing a sorcerer is playing a sorcerer, not everyone playing a sorcerer is playing x subclass of sorcerer, unless the game is designed poorly.
Edit: this is the case for every class. I want to play a psychic character, I pick fighter, I have to wait till level 3 to become psychic. I want an eldritch knight... level 3. I am playing this class for the subclass fantasy, but I acknowledge that the game is going to give me my class before it gives me my subclass.
I am just going to do my habit of late and type what I think WILL happen. I think Sorcs will be prepared casters. They will prepare the same way bard did in this UA so spells know problem is largely solved. I believe they will have access to the whole arcane spell list. They will get an extra meta magic option at level 7, and the level 10 meta magic will bump down to level 9. 3rd subclass feature will bump down to 10, 4th down to 14. Final Meta magic feature will bump down to 15. Sorcerer's restoration will change to when you take a short rest or when you roll initiative and be bumped down to level 18.
Meta magics may see a slight change. Careful spell may allow your friends to avoid all damage, not just succeed the save. Distant spell will look more like the current spell sniper. Increasing the range by 60 feet instead of doubling it, though I suspect the range on touch spells will still be 30 feet. Extended spell may or may not see a change, but I personally hope to see it become a way to bypass concentration for a short time. Heighten spell I suspect will go from 3 cost to 2 cost. Transmuted spell will be added to core rule book.
and that's it. Some may consider this too strong, but this is what I think is going to happen. They are moving to prepared casters for less punishing play for new players. The arcane list being bigger and better is the advantage of the mage group. It is why they have a d6 of health, no armor and no martial weapons. Bringing down the power of the spells is what they need to do for balance of caster vs martial, but this would make a sorcerer plenty powerful without much effort.
Wizards I believe will ALSO be able to prepare from any spell in the arcane list rather than having to copy them in their spell book the spell book will just have them all. And I suspect the "conjurer savant" and the like will just let them change out spells on a SHORT rest instead of a long rest as long as they are changing to a spell of that school. It would be even cooler if you could do that when you rolled initiative, but that is WAY too much bookkeeping and I have no doubt that WOC will not want to deal with those shenanigans.
Wizards arcane tradition will get pushed back to level 3 and arcane recovery will get pushed back to level 2. Spell mastery will get pushed up to level 15 and Signature spell get pushed up to 18. I also would not be surprised at all to see an extra feature for wizards.
Warlocks will be able to prepare a number of spells equal to their proficiency bonus from the arcane spell list from the All schools except evocation or something. The spells on their patron spell list will also automatically be prepared for them (this is for pact magic.) Their patron ability will get pushed back to level 3, but their pact choice will get pushed to level 1. Eldritch master will drop to level 18, but will probably be changed to once per long rest you can recover all of your pact slots as an action or a bonus action or something along those lines.
I'll add that I think the Wizard spell book will just brcome a ritual book where they can have all their ritual spell available without preparing them.
Though I think they will need to add more class / subclass features to make Wiza4ds and Sorcerers feel different if this is the case because turning them both into prep caster with ritual casting and the entire Arcane spell list known takes away most of the differences between them.
I don't know. Misty Step is really useful, but it's a tough call choosing between that and Silvery Barbs. I could see the advantage though. Have shield as your reaction spell, and misty step as your bonus action spell for when you're out of sorcery points and can't quicken spell anymore.
As long as they buff Dragonic Bloodline to bring it more in line with the power level of Aberrent Mind, I'll be happy.
That said, something I do wish they would do is introduce a rule that you have the option to change the damage type a spell does when you prepare the spell, or when you first reach the level the spell is available. I love playing casters with an elemental theme, and I have having to spend character creation going "Hey, can I reflavor this spell to do X type of damage?" Chromatic Orb is wonderful for that reason, though it doesn't really go as far as I'd like.
I think that's extremely unlikely given what we've seen for Ranger. WotC is using One D&D to do a reset power level wise as they have always done in the past with new additions. Otherwise the game will spiral out of control as each new book represents an increase in power to get people to buy it, and each new book provides more options to mix & match to find even more powerful combinations.
While I'm sure Yurei ment their post as only a joke, this has made me wonder that, if they ever made a D&D book with... less serious content... (they've done so before)... a buff sorcerer would be something players would legit want in said book.
Strength-based spellcasting is grossly missing in D&D...
I said this in another thread a month or so back, but I would personally prefer that instead of more spells, that sorcerers get more metamagic. Allow them to have more options and more selected at a time. Maybe even some low-level options that they can just do without spending points too. Almost like metamagic cantrips.
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Oh, I completely agree. I mean, a few more spells, especially at lowest and highest levels would be nice. I mean, if their Spells Known column was a little fuller I think it would be a good thing. But I absolutely agree with you about the Metamagics. Something more like this:
And I like your idea about having a couple of (additional) metamagics that didn’t require a resource is a great idea too. Maybe just 2 of those from an early level would be enough.
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My prediction is level 1 we will get meta magic and level 3 you will get your subclass feature, so my recommendation would be 2 meta magics at level 1. Because why shouldn't a sorcerer be a sorcerer from level 1.
Subclass at level 3 sounds ridiculous for a sorcerer. Clerics, sorcerers, and warlocks all have level 1 subclasses because their subclass is an essential part of their character. For ANY other class, you can just say "nah they don't have a subclass" and they would still make complete sense. Those 3, however, have subclasses based on how they get their power instead of just what they use it on. You cannot have a sorcerer without an origin, a warlock without a patron, or a cleric without a domain. The only other class this could be applicable to is paladin, but the PHB has an explanation for why they get their subclass at level 3 (even if it is a bit weird).
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
You can declare your "origin" and not have it's powers manifest till a higher level. Yes your origin is declared at level 1, doesn't mean that you need to be distinctly different than other sorcerers at level 1. Same with Warlocks, and Clerics. There is nothing stopping any class (like paladin) from having an origin idea at level 1 but not having the full benefits of it till level 3. And right now it isn't my suggestion as much as it is my prediction. They look like they are trying to normalize things a bit.
I really hope they don't. It's part of, well, why they're fun to play in the first place. Change it around too much and it's like saying that you can be a noble, but only if you're democratically elected for a single term before needing to run for re-election and have to function in a system of checks and balances. I hope that comparison namely makes sense. In other words, even if it makes sense and/or is better from a balance/design perspective, it ruins the whole point of the class and a good chunk of why people may be interested in playing it in the first place.
are you saying people only play sorcerers for their subclasses and not for their ability to use meta magic?
Or they only play warlock for the patron and not the pact boon or invocations? Or people only play cleric for their domain and not armor and divine spell casting and channel divinity?
I'm saying that the origin is a big part of why people play sorcerers and making it so that the origin has no impact till level 3 would be a serious turn-off for a lot of people who play sorcs in any form, yes. Especially since, at least currently, they get meta-magic at level 3 already and that's kind of a subclass for them as well (not the sorcs fault that Wizards made twinned/quickened/seeking so much better than the other options) and removing the origin giving them any kind of bonus would be kind of like removing/delaying rage from the barbarian or sneak attack from the rogue. It's a huge part of why people play the class. How powerful it is almost doesn't matter. It's that it exists is what's important.
If meta magic moves to level 1, this entire thing is invalid. People play sorcerer for the meta magic more than the origin. The origin would give a bonus at level 3. It is literally a trade of their level 1 ability with their level 3 ability.
Warlocks would probably be the same thing. Again this isn't what I want necessarily, just likely what we are going to see. Do you really think getting meta magic at level 1 is a bad thing over getting one of the sorcerer first level features.
The truth is that different people play sorcerers for different reasons.
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This is true, but all sorcerers play sorcerer not all sorcerers play divine soul, or dragon, or wild magic. You may play a class for the subclass, but the base class is first the subclass should be second.
That’s your opinion, and it’s perfectly valid. However, if someone else plays a Divine Soul first and a Sorcerer second, who are we to say they’re wrong for doing so. It’s a matter of mechanics Vs flavor. Some folks genuinely don’t play for the game mechanics the class provides, they play for the narrative flavor their subclass invokes for them. There’s nothing wrong with that.
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That's fair, but this isn't about what people do, it is about how the game is built, and you don't build a game that way.
If you are playing a class because it has a really cool subclass you like that is your reason, but when building the game the developers should be thinking class first subclass second. Because everyone playing a sorcerer is playing a sorcerer, not everyone playing a sorcerer is playing x subclass of sorcerer, unless the game is designed poorly.
Edit: this is the case for every class. I want to play a psychic character, I pick fighter, I have to wait till level 3 to become psychic. I want an eldritch knight... level 3. I am playing this class for the subclass fantasy, but I acknowledge that the game is going to give me my class before it gives me my subclass.