Did anyone give it a deep read? Notice they fixed Grappling/Shoving? They also added two new conditions (Dazed & Dying), and actually made the simple act of rolling Initiative interrupt a long rest. Improvements all around there.
Holy heck did they nerf Wild Shape, while simultaneously making the entire class nothing but Wild Shape…. Defawk?!? Wha-how?
I’m sorry, Paladins can Smite with a Longbow now?!? I ‘on’t think so, I say nay nay.
I would posit that R5e Wild Shape, if people are truly seeing it as almost entirely nothing but a spare HP sink, is not a well designed class feature. People like it because they're used to it, not because it's good. The vast majority of legal beast shapes are 100% crotchless-pants useless, and the existence of R5e Wild Shape also severely inhibits monster design because any Beast of appropriate level must also be designed with the fact that it can be a Wild Shape form first and foremost in the developer's brains.
Perhaps the new version isn't there yet, but I'd caution people against clinging too hard to the R5e version.
Oh sure, I'm not particularly attached to the current form of Wildshape. It just can't be the "why would I use this?" feature it is now in the playtest.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
I’m sorry, Paladins can Smite with a Longbow now?!? I ‘on’t think so, I say nay nay.
They can, but they can only smite once per turn now, and can't cast a spell in the same turn. Personally I think that's kind of a fair trade off, while it means they lose the option of burning their resources really quickly to do insane novas, it also means no more insane novas. Without that the longbow smite isn't really a problem.
The question mark is around whether this makes it too easy to fight at range, as being forced to go into melee used to mean you could only cover so many allies with your aura.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Druids lose medium armor. There's no mention of them "not wearing" metal armor, either. Though I don't believe any of the light armors have metal, so they'd have to take a feat for it to be an issue.
Not sure how I feel about the new wild shape stat block. I get the desire to simplify it, that certainly makes it more accessible, but it seems less interesting that no matter what kind of land animal I am I have the same stats. I mean, there's some cool flavor you can have by just letting imagination run wild with how you look, which is a plus. It's certainly easier, makes it so there's no longer some choices that are just objectively preferred, and no longer depends on the DM throwing different kinds of beasts at you so you can learn new forms, but it has less soul.
Ditto the find familiar/find steed changes. I like there being tradeoffs in choosing which animal to use. Though I do like using a higher-level slot to get a better mount. And the mounts in general seem more durable, which is always something that's bugged me.
I like the new smite spells. They went from being rarely useful to being sometimes useful. And letting pallys cast a couple spells without using a slot means they might actually cast a spell sometimes. Odd that they dropped curing disease from lay on hands. I wonder if its a realization that there's pretty much no diseases to cure any more, or if they were trying to bring it in since they did add a bunch of other conditions you can use lay on hands with.
For anyone who hasn't seen the videos, they had a couple interesting off-topic comments. In the paladin video, they said they are planning on buffing high-CR monsters. And they want to make it so a necromancer can more easily have an undead. (This was in the context of find familiar/find steed changes, so it makes me think they'll probably just make it a subclass feature with its own little stat block.) Druid is the least-played PHB class.
I’m sorry, Paladins can Smite with a Longbow now?!? I ‘on’t think so, I say nay nay.
They can, but they can only smite once per turn now, and can't cast a spell in the same turn. Personally I think that's kind of a fair trade off, while it means they lose the option of burning their resources really quickly, it will eliminate some of the more ridiculous novas we have seen (which could have been ridiculous if you could do it from a range).
I'm OK with ranged smites. Makes paladins still be useful against flying enemies. And, they'll still usually have a higher str than dex, so they'll prefer to melee, just now they'll have the option of range when needed.
Guys, pause to think about the new WS for a moment :
AC of 13-15, with a d8 hit die, only melee attacks, and zero defensive or crowd control options <--- This is completely useless in combat.
You are squishier than a current 5e Monk, and have fewer options to get yourself out of trouble. If you try to use this new WS in combat, you are dead. Simple as that.
They made moon druid boring. They've homogenized wild shape. I'm not a cave bear anymore, I'm generic stat block wearing a mask. LAME. I'm not playing it or will just stick to 5E.
I don't understand them wanting to get more people to play Druid, then gutting part of what made them so special. And don't talk to me about broken. If it was broken OP, lets be honest, Druid wouldn't be the least played class. I love digging around the books to find cool beasts. I like deciding, based on the fight layout, what I wanna wildshape into that will benefit me and the group.
Are the mobs spread out? I'm gonna go rhino and charge from one to another for the extra hit dice when I gore and potentially knock them prone. Is it dark? Gonna go cave bear for darkvision. Is it one giant mob? Giant constrictor snake to give my group a chance at attacking with advantage while I've got it restrained. All our options are gone in One D&D. No thank you!
I'm more than happy with how moon druid is now. If they wanted to do anything, it should have been a clearer explanation of what transfers over to your wildshaped form with example tables to alleviate any confusion there. I've only been playing a year. My first character was a Battlesmith Artificer and my second has been a Moon Druid. I didn't find either difficult to pick up, so I don't understand the mindset here. My playstyle and enjoyment has been broken on both classes now with what's being put out on One D&D. It's just aggravating...
They made moon druid boring. They've homogenized wild shape. I'm not a cave bear anymore, I'm generic stat block wearing a mask. LAME. I'm not playing it or will just stick to 5E.
I don't understand them wanting to get more people to play Druid, then gutting part of what made them so special. And don't talk to me about broken. If it was broken OP, lets be honest, Druid wouldn't be the least played class. I love digging around the books to find cool beasts. I like deciding, based on the fight layout, what I wanna wildshape into that will benefit me and the group.
Are the mobs spread out? I'm gonna go rhino and charge from one to another for the extra hit dice when I gore and potentially knock them prone. Is it dark? Gonna go cave bear for darkvision. Is it one giant mob? Giant constrictor snake to give my group a chance at attacking with advantage while I've got it restrained. All our options are gone in One D&D. No thank you!
I'm more than happy with how moon druid is now. If they wanted to do anything, it should have been a clearer explanation of what transfers over to your wildshaped form with example tables to alleviate any confusion there. I've only been playing a year. My first character was a Battlesmith Artificer and my second has been a Moon Druid. I didn't find either difficult to pick up, so I don't understand the mindset here. My playstyle and enjoyment has been broken on both classes now with what's being put out on One D&D. It's just aggravating...
Making things more watered down and generic “streamlined” is the way everything is going for D&D anymore. They want to cut down on what little crunch there was because it makes it easier for new players to get into the game. I agree with you, t’is a shame.
now Find Steed just looks very overpowered. It's basically an extra normal attack per turn.
How so? They specifically say it's a controlled mount, so it's only action options are dash, dodge or disengage. Unless they change the mounted combat rules.
now Find Steed just looks very overpowered. It's basically an extra normal attack per turn.
How so? They specifically say it's a controlled mount, so it's only action options are dash, dodge or disengage. Unless they change the mounted combat rules.
They say it functions as a controlled mount, not that you have to mount it. It's basically under your control, so long as you are conscious and it has it's own ability to attack, as per it's stat block.
now Find Steed just looks very overpowered. It's basically an extra normal attack per turn.
How so? They specifically say it's a controlled mount, so it's only action options are dash, dodge or disengage. Unless they change the mounted combat rules.
They say it functions as a controlled mount, not that you have to mount it. It's basically under your control, so long as you are conscious and it has it's own ability to attack, as per it's stat block.
Exactly. "In combat, it shares your initiative count, and it functions as a controlled mount (as defined in the rules on mounted combat)." And those rules say a controlled mount has only three action options: dash, dodge and disengage. It seems more like its controlled whether or not you mount it.
If you are incapacitated, it can act independently and take attacks, but otherwise, it's controlled, and can only dash, didge or disengage.
now Find Steed just looks very overpowered. It's basically an extra normal attack per turn.
How so? They specifically say it's a controlled mount, so it's only action options are dash, dodge or disengage. Unless they change the mounted combat rules.
They say it functions as a controlled mount, not that you have to mount it. It's basically under your control, so long as you are conscious and it has it's own ability to attack, as per it's stat block.
Exactly. "In combat, it shares your initiative count, and it functions as a controlled mount (as defined in the rules on mounted combat)." And those rules say a controlled mount has only three action options: dash, dodge and disengage. It seems more like its controlled whether or not you mount it.
If you are incapacitated, it can act independently and take attacks, but otherwise, it's controlled, and can only dash, didge or disengage.
A controlled mount is only a controlled mount whilst you are mounting it, read the section you're talking about
While you’re mounted, you have two options. You can either control the mount or allow it to act independently. Intelligent creatures, such as dragons, act independently.
So again, if you do not mount the steed, it is not a controlled mount, because it isn't currently mounted.
I like the idea of there being the option of generic, catch-all beasts for Druids. It's a really overwhelming class, especially for new players... on top of being prepared casters they also need to keep a portfolio full of beast stat blocks at the ready, track their CR, separate them based on whether or not they have a swim speed, etc. I get that can be too much for some players, who might just want to say, "I turn into a lion and maul that guy", without having to look up a Lion's stats.
All that said... I think simplifying Wildshape this much kind of takes some of the fun out of it. It's great when you find a beast stat block with some unique feature that's perfect for some situation you find yourself in. I think I'd prefer they keep the option to turn into actual Monster Manual beasts and just include the option of the generic beasts for those moments where it's not worth the effort of looking something up.
I would posit that R5e Wild Shape, if people are truly seeing it as almost entirely nothing but a spare HP sink, is not a well designed class feature. People like it because they're used to it, not because it's good. The vast majority of legal beast shapes are 100% crotchless-pants useless, and the existence of R5e Wild Shape also severely inhibits monster design because any Beast of appropriate level must also be designed with the fact that it can be a Wild Shape form first and foremost in the developer's brains.
Perhaps the new version isn't there yet, but I'd caution people against clinging too hard to the R5e version.
The 5E Wildshape is not very balanced for Moon Druids, that's true. The fix for that would be to develop a table that adjusted HD, to hit bonuses and damage bonuses based on the level of Druid rather than on a set Monster stat block.
However, the proposed OneDND Wildshape is worse for the game in general. It saps player initiative and creativity by shoehorning all Wildshapes into a few narrow forms. This will definitely hurt non-Moon Druid stans more than Moon Druid stans, not only because more of the Druid features are more tied to Wildshape, but also because utility and variety for non-combat Wildshape forms would be much more limited. The point of Wildshape is being able to have a variety of tools for a variety of problems. Need a tunnel? Turn into a mole. Need to spy on your enemy in a cave? Turn into a spider. Need an emergency mount? Turn into a horse. It's the Druid version of Bardic Expertise with a variety of potential boosts to hiding, mobility or field control based on the terrain/environment.
I suspect that the devs want these changes because they want to streamline everything for the new VTT module being developed by Cao. This is an anti-creative move to make it easier to video game-ify D&D for the sake of VFX on a VTT platform. Hard pass.
I'm actually ok with the templates for wild shape. I liked the idea of the old WS, but I recognize that it was a nightmare to balance, had a lot of trap options, and wasn't really approachable to new players. With the new features added you can use it for all the same noncombat utility stuff anyway.
My issue is the new WS templates just seem weak. Prior to level 5, you're essentially using a limited resource to cast Shillelagh and silence yourself. You don't get any extra defense when you use it, and the bestial strike is just D8 + Wis. Unless I'm missing something major, it feels like you're actively trolling your team to use it in combat. It gets better at lvl 5, but the fragility problem never goes away.
So yeah... the direction seems ok, but the wild shape just needs to have a bit more punch, especially early on. Maybe a few more points of AC, some damage resistance or some temp hp / self healing. Something to help on the defense if the damage actually sticks on the druid now.
I would posit that R5e Wild Shape, if people are truly seeing it as almost entirely nothing but a spare HP sink, is not a well designed class feature. People like it because they're used to it, not because it's good. The vast majority of legal beast shapes are 100% crotchless-pants useless, and the existence of R5e Wild Shape also severely inhibits monster design because any Beast of appropriate level must also be designed with the fact that it can be a Wild Shape form first and foremost in the developer's brains.
Perhaps the new version isn't there yet, but I'd caution people against clinging too hard to the R5e version.
While I agree that is should be more than a spare HP sink, and that it was limiting both game design, and needed a redesign, it also feels clear to me the designers don't have a clear concept of what the new wildshape should be used for. When playing the moon druid I loved being my teams switch hitter. Need more melee combatants, I got this. Need more casters, I got this. Need more healers, I got this. When not playing a moon druid I could lean very heavy into the caster side of the class.
The problem with the new wild shape is that it doesn't really help you do anything. A moon druid going into melee willingly with this new form is a fool. Your HP and AC just can't support that. As far as I can tell your skills don't transfer to your new form so your only advantage to stealth is being something people won't bother, but since you can't be tiny till later in the game you're still very easily noticed. You also still can't cast in wild shape till late level. Finally it has no social role at all. The only good thing is the perception and mobility. Mobility won't hold a class together, just ask the monk.
In conclusion this has taken one good (if broken for the moon druid) ability and replaced it with a feature that doesn't help non moon druids that much, while not fixing most of the known problems, and destroying one of the best subclasses the previous version had. It's a hot mess that is terrible, among many other hot messes published thus far in the UA. Of the classes they have published thus far, in my opinion the paladin is alright, the ranger is tolerable, and I hate the rest. And that is exhausting my patience with the playtest entirely.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Did anyone give it a deep read? Notice they fixed Grappling/Shoving? They also added two new conditions (Dazed & Dying), and actually made the simple act of rolling Initiative interrupt a long rest. Improvements all around there.
Holy heck did they nerf Wild Shape, while simultaneously making the entire class nothing but Wild Shape…. Defawk?!? Wha-how?
I’m sorry, Paladins can Smite with a Longbow now?!? I ‘on’t think so, I say nay nay.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Oh sure, I'm not particularly attached to the current form of Wildshape. It just can't be the "why would I use this?" feature it is now in the playtest.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
They can, but they can only smite once per turn now, and can't cast a spell in the same turn. Personally I think that's kind of a fair trade off, while it means they lose the option of burning their resources really quickly to do insane novas, it also means no more insane novas. Without that the longbow smite isn't really a problem.
The question mark is around whether this makes it too easy to fight at range, as being forced to go into melee used to mean you could only cover so many allies with your aura.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Druids lose medium armor. There's no mention of them "not wearing" metal armor, either. Though I don't believe any of the light armors have metal, so they'd have to take a feat for it to be an issue.
Not sure how I feel about the new wild shape stat block. I get the desire to simplify it, that certainly makes it more accessible, but it seems less interesting that no matter what kind of land animal I am I have the same stats. I mean, there's some cool flavor you can have by just letting imagination run wild with how you look, which is a plus. It's certainly easier, makes it so there's no longer some choices that are just objectively preferred, and no longer depends on the DM throwing different kinds of beasts at you so you can learn new forms, but it has less soul.
Ditto the find familiar/find steed changes. I like there being tradeoffs in choosing which animal to use. Though I do like using a higher-level slot to get a better mount. And the mounts in general seem more durable, which is always something that's bugged me.
I like the new smite spells. They went from being rarely useful to being sometimes useful. And letting pallys cast a couple spells without using a slot means they might actually cast a spell sometimes. Odd that they dropped curing disease from lay on hands. I wonder if its a realization that there's pretty much no diseases to cure any more, or if they were trying to bring it in since they did add a bunch of other conditions you can use lay on hands with.
For anyone who hasn't seen the videos, they had a couple interesting off-topic comments. In the paladin video, they said they are planning on buffing high-CR monsters. And they want to make it so a necromancer can more easily have an undead. (This was in the context of find familiar/find steed changes, so it makes me think they'll probably just make it a subclass feature with its own little stat block.) Druid is the least-played PHB class.
I'm OK with ranged smites. Makes paladins still be useful against flying enemies. And, they'll still usually have a higher str than dex, so they'll prefer to melee, just now they'll have the option of range when needed.
Paladins also lost heavy armor training when MCing too?!? Wha?!?
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Guys, pause to think about the new WS for a moment :
AC of 13-15, with a d8 hit die, only melee attacks, and zero defensive or crowd control options <--- This is completely useless in combat.
You are squishier than a current 5e Monk, and have fewer options to get yourself out of trouble. If you try to use this new WS in combat, you are dead. Simple as that.
They are really trying to reign in MC'ing.
They made moon druid boring. They've homogenized wild shape. I'm not a cave bear anymore, I'm generic stat block wearing a mask. LAME. I'm not playing it or will just stick to 5E.
I don't understand them wanting to get more people to play Druid, then gutting part of what made them so special. And don't talk to me about broken. If it was broken OP, lets be honest, Druid wouldn't be the least played class. I love digging around the books to find cool beasts. I like deciding, based on the fight layout, what I wanna wildshape into that will benefit me and the group.
Are the mobs spread out? I'm gonna go rhino and charge from one to another for the extra hit dice when I gore and potentially knock them prone. Is it dark? Gonna go cave bear for darkvision. Is it one giant mob? Giant constrictor snake to give my group a chance at attacking with advantage while I've got it restrained. All our options are gone in One D&D. No thank you!
I'm more than happy with how moon druid is now. If they wanted to do anything, it should have been a clearer explanation of what transfers over to your wildshaped form with example tables to alleviate any confusion there. I've only been playing a year. My first character was a Battlesmith Artificer and my second has been a Moon Druid. I didn't find either difficult to pick up, so I don't understand the mindset here. My playstyle and enjoyment has been broken on both classes now with what's being put out on One D&D. It's just aggravating...
You never got heavy armor from multiclassing into paladin/fighter. no change here
Making things more
watered down and generic“streamlined” is the way everything is going for D&D anymore. They want to cut down on what little crunch there was because it makes it easier for new players to get into the game. I agree with you, t’is a shame.Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Hunh, so you’re right. I could’ve sworn… oh well, nevermind.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
How so? They specifically say it's a controlled mount, so it's only action options are dash, dodge or disengage. Unless they change the mounted combat rules.
They say it functions as a controlled mount, not that you have to mount it. It's basically under your control, so long as you are conscious and it has it's own ability to attack, as per it's stat block.
Exactly. "In combat, it shares your initiative count, and it functions as a controlled mount (as defined in the rules on mounted combat)." And those rules say a controlled mount has only three action options: dash, dodge and disengage. It seems more like its controlled whether or not you mount it.
If you are incapacitated, it can act independently and take attacks, but otherwise, it's controlled, and can only dash, didge or disengage.
A controlled mount is only a controlled mount whilst you are mounting it, read the section you're talking about
So again, if you do not mount the steed, it is not a controlled mount, because it isn't currently mounted.
I like the idea of there being the option of generic, catch-all beasts for Druids. It's a really overwhelming class, especially for new players... on top of being prepared casters they also need to keep a portfolio full of beast stat blocks at the ready, track their CR, separate them based on whether or not they have a swim speed, etc. I get that can be too much for some players, who might just want to say, "I turn into a lion and maul that guy", without having to look up a Lion's stats.
All that said... I think simplifying Wildshape this much kind of takes some of the fun out of it. It's great when you find a beast stat block with some unique feature that's perfect for some situation you find yourself in. I think I'd prefer they keep the option to turn into actual Monster Manual beasts and just include the option of the generic beasts for those moments where it's not worth the effort of looking something up.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
The 5E Wildshape is not very balanced for Moon Druids, that's true. The fix for that would be to develop a table that adjusted HD, to hit bonuses and damage bonuses based on the level of Druid rather than on a set Monster stat block.
However, the proposed OneDND Wildshape is worse for the game in general. It saps player initiative and creativity by shoehorning all Wildshapes into a few narrow forms. This will definitely hurt non-Moon Druid stans more than Moon Druid stans, not only because more of the Druid features are more tied to Wildshape, but also because utility and variety for non-combat Wildshape forms would be much more limited. The point of Wildshape is being able to have a variety of tools for a variety of problems. Need a tunnel? Turn into a mole. Need to spy on your enemy in a cave? Turn into a spider. Need an emergency mount? Turn into a horse. It's the Druid version of Bardic Expertise with a variety of potential boosts to hiding, mobility or field control based on the terrain/environment.
I suspect that the devs want these changes because they want to streamline everything for the new VTT module being developed by Cao. This is an anti-creative move to make it easier to video game-ify D&D for the sake of VFX on a VTT platform. Hard pass.
I'm actually ok with the templates for wild shape. I liked the idea of the old WS, but I recognize that it was a nightmare to balance, had a lot of trap options, and wasn't really approachable to new players. With the new features added you can use it for all the same noncombat utility stuff anyway.
My issue is the new WS templates just seem weak. Prior to level 5, you're essentially using a limited resource to cast Shillelagh and silence yourself. You don't get any extra defense when you use it, and the bestial strike is just D8 + Wis. Unless I'm missing something major, it feels like you're actively trolling your team to use it in combat. It gets better at lvl 5, but the fragility problem never goes away.
So yeah... the direction seems ok, but the wild shape just needs to have a bit more punch, especially early on. Maybe a few more points of AC, some damage resistance or some temp hp / self healing. Something to help on the defense if the damage actually sticks on the druid now.
While I agree that is should be more than a spare HP sink, and that it was limiting both game design, and needed a redesign, it also feels clear to me the designers don't have a clear concept of what the new wildshape should be used for. When playing the moon druid I loved being my teams switch hitter. Need more melee combatants, I got this. Need more casters, I got this. Need more healers, I got this. When not playing a moon druid I could lean very heavy into the caster side of the class.
The problem with the new wild shape is that it doesn't really help you do anything. A moon druid going into melee willingly with this new form is a fool. Your HP and AC just can't support that. As far as I can tell your skills don't transfer to your new form so your only advantage to stealth is being something people won't bother, but since you can't be tiny till later in the game you're still very easily noticed. You also still can't cast in wild shape till late level. Finally it has no social role at all. The only good thing is the perception and mobility. Mobility won't hold a class together, just ask the monk.
In conclusion this has taken one good (if broken for the moon druid) ability and replaced it with a feature that doesn't help non moon druids that much, while not fixing most of the known problems, and destroying one of the best subclasses the previous version had. It's a hot mess that is terrible, among many other hot messes published thus far in the UA. Of the classes they have published thus far, in my opinion the paladin is alright, the ranger is tolerable, and I hate the rest. And that is exhausting my patience with the playtest entirely.