speaking of Light cantrip, it needs an option to make a spell attack to attach the light to a creature's face, blinding them. feels like every player has themselves tried or knows someone who tried springing that on the dm at least once. save a dm from having to sigh and pull out google: just give it some dex save verbiage (maybe an arcana check to quench, if victim is proficient) and move on down the road.
I've literally never heard of anyone trying that, but:
1. Light can only target objects, not creatures. 2. There's already verbiage with Light for a hostile creature to make a DEX Save if you cast in on an object in their possession. 3. Light is a magical alternative to a torch. The light is no more blinding than torchlight, which is to say: It's not. 4. Blindness already exists as a 2nd-level spell that lasts a minute. Giving it to a cantrip that lasts an hour is absurd.
it's easy to forget that the target must be an object when the most common thing is to either simply state you've cast it or cast it on a friend. anyway, the corrected player then replies "are they wearing a helmet? mask? necklace?" this is weak justification, i know. i didn't sigh and pull out google and my request suffers for it.
yes, but not verbiage regarding blind. even "this cannot be used to blind someone" that would be something.
in movies people lift the lantern to see farther, but in reality that just nullifies the effect the lantern hood has in preserving your night vision. you want to illuminate the surroundings, not your face. if you've ever held a torch, you might have held it farther off to the side to get it out of direct line of view in your desire to see something at a distance. similarly, if someone waved a flashlight/torch in your eyes you might say "ow, scoob, like, now i can't see." players have for years waved a torch in something's face when they were surprised. it's a dm fiat area i'm asking to be addressed.
yes. a cantrip shouldn't do what a leveled spell can do. having said that, it's not beyond the pale and it replaces a lot of more useful actions with less personal risk. if it did work it would likely require additional verbiage about a low DC arcana check or something to snuff it. which would spoil the neat plans of others who might have been happy for years tagging foes with an irremovable light to remain affixed to the target's object (without blind).
...anyway, this began as a throw away thought that i have now exhausted my attention span for. into the wind it goes.
They could have a lower tier status effect like dazzled that it could cause instead of blinded.
Odd that True Strike is Radiant, and not, say, Magical...
That's likely on account of Magical damage as a concept is going away, Bozzybuddy! It's all about Force these days, dontchaknow? :)
Radiant *is* a peculiar choice, sure. I imagine the weapon suddenly all a-shining with the light fantastic, maybe? (Though, had it been me, I'd just increased the base weapon damage by that number of dice, showing how your True Strike is a "mini crit" by default.)
Odd that True Strike is Radiant, and not, say, Magical...
That's likely on account of Magical damage as a concept is going away, Bozzybuddy! It's all about Force these days, dontchaknow? :)
Radiant *is* a peculiar choice, sure. I imagine the weapon suddenly all a-shining with the light fantastic, maybe? (Though, had it been me, I'd just increased the base weapon damage by that number of dice, showing how your True Strike is a "mini crit" by default.)
looks like they're using radiant as the go-to 'divination' damage. the light of clarity, i guess? which is sorta fun to imagine: weaponized fate. with that plus adding spellcasting ability to attack, i've never felt more encouraged to play a mister magoo type character, guided by karma to stumble blindly but inevitably into defeat of the big bad.
I'm actually really positive about the cantrip changes so far. The ones I'm unsure about are:
Chill Touch: This has changed so much it's basically a new cantrip. I'd rather see the old chill touch be renamed something like "spectral grasp" or such, and then to gain a new cold damage touch range cantrip using the chill touch name, possibly replacing one of frostbite or ray of frost? I'm of two minds about the loss of the extra undead rider though; I had this as a main cantrip on a character in Curse of Strahd and often encountered enemies resistant to necrotic damage, but as they were undead I at least still got some benefit, but it is also situational and added complexity.
Poison Spray: I actually don't like it being made a ranged attack. I'd rather it remain a Constitution save but maybe follow acid splash and become a small cone attack with damage adjusted accordingly. Good constitution is relatively common on monsters, and poison damage is one of the more common resistances/immunities so there's scope for this to be an area of effect IMO.
Shocking Grasp: I don't like the loss of advantage vs. armour, partly because it's a feature that encourages a player to change tactics when facing armoured opponents, e.g- instead of using shocking grasp as a purely defensive cantrip (i.e- to effectively disengage) they might consider using it offensively thanks to the extra reliability compared to something ranged. I like bonuses that encourage players to change up how they play.
True Strike: I feel like this should just make the weapon attack magical rather than changing the damage type, and the added damage should just be the same as the weapon's type.
But yeah, don't really have any major issues with this playtest, though I haven't really dug into the bastion rules yet; those rules seem okay but probably more complicated than they need to be.
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Poison Spray: I actually don't like it being made a ranged attack. I'd rather it remain a Constitution save but maybe follow acid splash and become a small cone attack with damage adjusted accordingly. Good constitution is relatively common on monsters, and poison damage is one of the more common resistances/immunities so there's scope for this to be an area of effect IMO.
You know, I am of the same mind regarding Poison Spray. Right now, it's Cobra Spit, not a spray. I feel like there's a niche for a small cone cantrip. We've got Personal AoE, melee, mid and long range cantrips. We've even got a small ranged AoE. But cones? Not so much, right? Wouldn't it be fitting if it was a 10 ft cone instead? As in... a spray of poison?
I totally agree with your reasoning that its inherent limitations would more than make up for it being an AoE.
Odd that True Strike is Radiant, and not, say, Magical...
That's likely on account of Magical damage as a concept is going away, Bozzybuddy! It's all about Force these days, dontchaknow? :)
Radiant *is* a peculiar choice, sure. I imagine the weapon suddenly all a-shining with the light fantastic, maybe? (Though, had it been me, I'd just increased the base weapon damage by that number of dice, showing how your True Strike is a "mini crit" by default.)
I dislike it. Of all the damage types to prune out, Magical is not one that is "extra".
Im just not sure how to boost it more to let Druids get more benefit than an extra attack martial.
With the way they've changed true strike I almost wonder if they should just merge the two together instead of having basically two cantrips that do the same thing, but one is druid only yet specifically worse for druids?
Either that or they could limit shillelagh to once per turn as well, keep the proposed scaling (except make it 2d8 at 17th-level) then add some other rider effect to it, perhaps dazed or poisoned? I don't see the need for this to do force damage though, it being treated as magical damage is plenty.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Odd that True Strike is Radiant, and not, say, Magical...
That's likely on account of Magical damage as a concept is going away, Bozzybuddy! It's all about Force these days, dontchaknow? :)
Radiant *is* a peculiar choice, sure. I imagine the weapon suddenly all a-shining with the light fantastic, maybe? (Though, had it been me, I'd just increased the base weapon damage by that number of dice, showing how your True Strike is a "mini crit" by default.)
I dislike it. Of all the damage types to prune out, Magical is not one that is "extra".
Magic damage was never a damage type in 5E, that I am aware of. Force damage is pretty much “magic damage” now.
From PHB:
Force. Force is pure magical energy focused into a damaging form. Most effects that deal force damage are spells, including magic missile and spiritual weapon.
Im just not sure how to boost it more to let Druids get more benefit than an extra attack martial.
With the way they've changed true strike I almost wonder if they should just merge the two together instead of having basically two cantrips that do the same thing, but one is druid only yet specifically worse for druids?
Either that or they could limit shillelagh to once per turn as well, keep the proposed scaling (except make it 2d8 at 17th-level) then add some other rider effect to it, perhaps dazed or poisoned? I don't see the need for this to do force damage though, it being treated as magical damage is plenty.
That could be an interesting option. You imbue your staff or club with primal magic. For 1 minute you can attack using your spellcasting score modifier and once per turn do the scaling damage, starting at d8
Odd that True Strike is Radiant, and not, say, Magical...
That's likely on account of Magical damage as a concept is going away, Bozzybuddy! It's all about Force these days, dontchaknow? :)
Radiant *is* a peculiar choice, sure. I imagine the weapon suddenly all a-shining with the light fantastic, maybe? (Though, had it been me, I'd just increased the base weapon damage by that number of dice, showing how your True Strike is a "mini crit" by default.)
I dislike it. Of all the damage types to prune out, Magical is not one that is "extra".
Magic damage was never a damage type in 5E, that I am aware of. Force damage is pretty much “magic damage” now.
From PHB:
Force. Force is pure magical energy focused into a damaging form. Most effects that deal force damage are spells, including magic missile and spiritual weapon.
...yeah, I completely forgot about that. Magical damage still lives on in my heart.
I'm actually really positive about the cantrip changes so far. The ones I'm unsure about are:
Chill Touch: This has changed so much it's basically a new cantrip. I'd rather see the old chill touch be renamed something like "spectral grasp" or such, and then to gain a new cold damage touch range cantrip using the chill touch name, possibly replacing one of frostbite or ray of frost? I'm of two minds about the loss of the extra undead rider though; I had this as a main cantrip on a character in Curse of Strahd and often encountered enemies resistant to necrotic damage, but as they were undead I at least still got some benefit, but it is also situational and added complexity.
i remember hating this spell in particular back in AD&D 2e because of the difficulty in a wizard landing a melee attack. these days it's easier, but it's still probably a desperate situation if this spell is coming out. they really should give advantage or add +DEX to the attack roll for targets that are slow (low movement, zero movement, already used their reaction, etc) or burdened by heavy armor. high AC can mean the creature is slippery and hard to hit, or it can mean it's easy to hit but hard to damage. this change would maybe highlight the relative simplicity of touching that second kind of creature.
...or at the very least give back the metal armor advantage to Shocking Grasp. of course someone wearing conductive clothing (even over leather and cloth) should be easier to graze with a tazer hand.
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Would New Eldritch Knight with Shadow Blade and True Strike twice per action, thanks to new rules, be broken? Is it the same with magic initiate shillelagh plus true strike? Multiclass options make them too strong, so a per-turn ruling would be ideal.
Also, this issue mainly pops up when there is one instance of an extra attack on a half-caster like the Artificer, which u gotta choose if u do two attacks or a single attack cantrip. This is my wishful thinking, but half-casters with extra attack on base class should be able to swap one attack for a cantrip. It should be standard since they are kinda proficient in martial and magical skills just to feel right. As True Strike describes "Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting."
Would New Eldritch Knight with Shadow Blade and True Strike twice per action, thanks to new rules, be broken? Is it the same with magic initiate shillelagh plus true strike? Multiclass options make them too strong, so a per-turn ruling would be ideal.
Also, this issue mainly pops up when there is one instance of an extra attack on a half-caster like the Artificer, which u gotta choose if u do two attacks or a single attack cantrip. This is my wishful thinking, but half-casters with extra attack on base class should be able to swap one attack for a cantrip. It should be standard since they are kinda proficient in martial and magical skills just to feel right. As True Strike describes "Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting."
I think it makes sense for casters who get some form of extra attack through their subclass to get some means of juicing their attacks, since they need help of some kind. Not necessarily to keep up with dedicated martial fighters, but also to make them at least comparable to full casters who are dealing damage through leveled spells in combat. Right now, if you're playing as a caster subclass that gets extra attack, by the time you hit level 11 or so you might find yourself dealing less damage than you would just casting a cantrip.
That all said... I can understand why there's a hesitance to just let players, by default, swap out an attack with a cantrip. The cantrips already scale upward natively based on character level. Especially if, for example, you take Warlock and suddenly at level 11 you're making 4 full-strength attacks every turn. Still... it's not like every Cantrip scales up that well, and it can feel frustrating to try and build a character or something and find that it's not possible because the game designers are trying to prevent a separate broken combo
Aside from Warlock any half caster fall short in most cases with sustained dmg, they need to solidify them as a true hybrid without overtaking full caster or martials. For example look at bladedancer its cool at lower lvl but in the end he fall back into full casting and the niche died.
Aside from Warlock any half caster fall short in most cases with sustained dmg, they need to solidify them as a true hybrid without overtaking full caster or martials. For example look at bladedancer its cool at lower lvl but in the end he fall back into full casting and the niche died.
More extreme comment: Half casters were always a bad idea, especially with the implementation of spell levels and spell level equivalencies. A 4th level Paladin spell is not a 4th level spell, even though primary casters can take it as a 4th level spell, for example.
"Half casters" need to have very, VERY few spells known and spell slots, but levels? Needs to be the same progression.
Aside from Warlock any half caster fall short in most cases with sustained dmg, they need to solidify them as a true hybrid without overtaking full caster or martials. For example look at bladedancer its cool at lower lvl but in the end he fall back into full casting and the niche died.
More extreme comment: Half casters were always a bad idea, especially with the implementation of spell levels and spell level equivalencies. A 4th level Paladin spell is not a 4th level spell, even though primary casters can take it as a 4th level spell, for example.
"Half casters" need to have very, VERY few spells known and spell slots, but levels? Needs to be the same progression.
I'm with you on combat spells, but many utility spells remain viable throughout the game. This is why Arcane Trickster is not a terrible subclass - because it's using utility spells. Eldritch Knight is the same - things like Shield have a big impact even later on. Likewise, Paladins typically focus on support and can make good use of their slots that way.
But then you look at something like the 5e Four Elements monk. Even all the people who "fixed it" by lowering ki cost or providing more ki missed the part where you simply cannot be a blaster unless you are a full caster. The attack spells you have are just not relevant at the time you get them.
But I don't like your solution when it comes to utility. Should an Arcane Trickster have the same level of illusory power as an Illusionist wizard? I would say no. Even if they can just cast once a day, it should not be as advanced as what an expert in illusions can do.
Perhaps there is a niche for half-casters (and third-casters since I'm lumping them together here), but they should explicitly focus on support and utility. Having an array of those spells, even at lower levels, can still be very useful.
Aside from Warlock any half caster fall short in most cases with sustained dmg, they need to solidify them as a true hybrid without overtaking full caster or martials. For example look at bladedancer its cool at lower lvl but in the end he fall back into full casting and the niche died.
More extreme comment: Half casters were always a bad idea, especially with the implementation of spell levels and spell level equivalencies. A 4th level Paladin spell is not a 4th level spell, even though primary casters can take it as a 4th level spell, for example.
"Half casters" need to have very, VERY few spells known and spell slots, but levels? Needs to be the same progression.
I'm with you on combat spells, but many utility spells remain viable throughout the game. This is why Arcane Trickster is not a terrible subclass - because it's using utility spells. Eldritch Knight is the same - things like Shield have a big impact even later on. Likewise, Paladins typically focus on support and can make good use of their slots that way.
But then you look at something like the 5e Four Elements monk. Even all the people who "fixed it" by lowering ki cost or providing more ki missed the part where you simply cannot be a blaster unless you are a full caster. The attack spells you have are just not relevant at the time you get them.
But I don't like your solution when it comes to utility. Should an Arcane Trickster have the same level of illusory power as an Illusionist wizard? I would say no. Even if they can just cast once a day, it should not be as advanced as what an expert in illusions can do.
Perhaps there is a niche for half-casters (and third-casters since I'm lumping them together here), but they should explicitly focus on support and utility. Having an array of those spells, even at lower levels, can still be very useful.
As you mention the Arcane trickster dont have that issue, but just consider that maybe the chassis of that one subclass is really good ? same with paladin.
Aside from Warlock any half caster fall short in most cases with sustained dmg, they need to solidify them as a true hybrid without overtaking full caster or martials. For example look at bladedancer its cool at lower lvl but in the end he fall back into full casting and the niche died.
More extreme comment: Half casters were always a bad idea, especially with the implementation of spell levels and spell level equivalencies. A 4th level Paladin spell is not a 4th level spell, even though primary casters can take it as a 4th level spell, for example.
"Half casters" need to have very, VERY few spells known and spell slots, but levels? Needs to be the same progression.
Whoa the BECMI Elf was dope.
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They could have a lower tier status effect like dazzled that it could cause instead of blinded.
This is just *mwah!*
I like how they fixed some outliers.
Shillelagh has odd scaling.
Odd that True Strike is Radiant, and not, say, Magical...
That's likely on account of Magical damage as a concept is going away, Bozzybuddy! It's all about Force these days, dontchaknow? :)
Radiant *is* a peculiar choice, sure. I imagine the weapon suddenly all a-shining with the light fantastic, maybe? (Though, had it been me, I'd just increased the base weapon damage by that number of dice, showing how your True Strike is a "mini crit" by default.)
True Strike should probably be Force damage and Shillelagh should be Radiant (similar to Moonbeam and all).
looks like they're using radiant as the go-to 'divination' damage. the light of clarity, i guess? which is sorta fun to imagine: weaponized fate. with that plus adding spellcasting ability to attack, i've never felt more encouraged to play a mister magoo type character, guided by karma to stumble blindly but inevitably into defeat of the big bad.
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I'm actually really positive about the cantrip changes so far. The ones I'm unsure about are:
But yeah, don't really have any major issues with this playtest, though I haven't really dug into the bastion rules yet; those rules seem okay but probably more complicated than they need to be.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
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You know, I am of the same mind regarding Poison Spray. Right now, it's Cobra Spit, not a spray. I feel like there's a niche for a small cone cantrip. We've got Personal AoE, melee, mid and long range cantrips. We've even got a small ranged AoE. But cones? Not so much, right? Wouldn't it be fitting if it was a 10 ft cone instead? As in... a spray of poison?
I totally agree with your reasoning that its inherent limitations would more than make up for it being an AoE.
I dislike it. Of all the damage types to prune out, Magical is not one that is "extra".
With the way they've changed true strike I almost wonder if they should just merge the two together instead of having basically two cantrips that do the same thing, but one is druid only yet specifically worse for druids?
Either that or they could limit shillelagh to once per turn as well, keep the proposed scaling (except make it 2d8 at 17th-level) then add some other rider effect to it, perhaps dazed or poisoned? I don't see the need for this to do force damage though, it being treated as magical damage is plenty.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Magic damage was never a damage type in 5E, that I am aware of. Force damage is pretty much “magic damage” now.
From PHB:
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
That could be an interesting option. You imbue your staff or club with primal magic. For 1 minute you can attack using your spellcasting score modifier and once per turn do the scaling damage, starting at d8
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
...yeah, I completely forgot about that.
Magical damage still lives on in my heart.
i remember hating this spell in particular back in AD&D 2e because of the difficulty in a wizard landing a melee attack. these days it's easier, but it's still probably a desperate situation if this spell is coming out. they really should give advantage or add +DEX to the attack roll for targets that are slow (low movement, zero movement, already used their reaction, etc) or burdened by heavy armor. high AC can mean the creature is slippery and hard to hit, or it can mean it's easy to hit but hard to damage. this change would maybe highlight the relative simplicity of touching that second kind of creature.
...or at the very least give back the metal armor advantage to Shocking Grasp. of course someone wearing conductive clothing (even over leather and cloth) should be easier to graze with a tazer hand.
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
Would New Eldritch Knight with Shadow Blade and True Strike twice per action, thanks to new rules, be broken? Is it the same with magic initiate shillelagh plus true strike? Multiclass options make them too strong, so a per-turn ruling would be ideal.
Also, this issue mainly pops up when there is one instance of an extra attack on a half-caster like the Artificer, which u gotta choose if u do two attacks or a single attack cantrip. This is my wishful thinking, but half-casters with extra attack on base class should be able to swap one attack for a cantrip. It should be standard since they are kinda proficient in martial and magical skills just to feel right. As True Strike describes "Guided by a flash of magical insight, you make one attack with the weapon used in the spell’s casting."
I think it makes sense for casters who get some form of extra attack through their subclass to get some means of juicing their attacks, since they need help of some kind. Not necessarily to keep up with dedicated martial fighters, but also to make them at least comparable to full casters who are dealing damage through leveled spells in combat. Right now, if you're playing as a caster subclass that gets extra attack, by the time you hit level 11 or so you might find yourself dealing less damage than you would just casting a cantrip.
That all said... I can understand why there's a hesitance to just let players, by default, swap out an attack with a cantrip. The cantrips already scale upward natively based on character level. Especially if, for example, you take Warlock and suddenly at level 11 you're making 4 full-strength attacks every turn. Still... it's not like every Cantrip scales up that well, and it can feel frustrating to try and build a character or something and find that it's not possible because the game designers are trying to prevent a separate broken combo
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Aside from Warlock any half caster fall short in most cases with sustained dmg, they need to solidify them as a true hybrid without overtaking full caster or martials. For example look at bladedancer its cool at lower lvl but in the end he fall back into full casting and the niche died.
More extreme comment: Half casters were always a bad idea, especially with the implementation of spell levels and spell level equivalencies. A 4th level Paladin spell is not a 4th level spell, even though primary casters can take it as a 4th level spell, for example.
"Half casters" need to have very, VERY few spells known and spell slots, but levels? Needs to be the same progression.
I'm with you on combat spells, but many utility spells remain viable throughout the game. This is why Arcane Trickster is not a terrible subclass - because it's using utility spells. Eldritch Knight is the same - things like Shield have a big impact even later on. Likewise, Paladins typically focus on support and can make good use of their slots that way.
But then you look at something like the 5e Four Elements monk. Even all the people who "fixed it" by lowering ki cost or providing more ki missed the part where you simply cannot be a blaster unless you are a full caster. The attack spells you have are just not relevant at the time you get them.
But I don't like your solution when it comes to utility. Should an Arcane Trickster have the same level of illusory power as an Illusionist wizard? I would say no. Even if they can just cast once a day, it should not be as advanced as what an expert in illusions can do.
Perhaps there is a niche for half-casters (and third-casters since I'm lumping them together here), but they should explicitly focus on support and utility. Having an array of those spells, even at lower levels, can still be very useful.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
As you mention the Arcane trickster dont have that issue, but just consider that maybe the chassis of that one subclass is really good ? same with paladin.
Whoa the BECMI Elf was dope.