I think it’s pretty set with Open hand, Shadow, Elements, and Mercy. Unless they do a switch for Mercy. Kensei will have to await for another book unfortunately. We only get 4 subclasses in the PhB
Keeping the Open Hand, Shadow and Four Elements subclasses was a no-brainer, especially with the new Elements Monk being such a big improvement. Of the available choices for the fourth subclass, I'm glad to see Mercy get the promotion. It's a fascinating subclass with lots of interesting story potential.
I do think it's a real shame that we aren't getting an updated kensei, with the weapon mastery system being one of the more significant additions, it'd be cool to see the kensei interact with the the system in a unique way.
I do think it's a real shame that we aren't getting an updated kensei, with the weapon mastery system being one of the more significant additions, it'd be cool to see the kensei interact with the the system in a unique way.
I agree. Kensei would have been the better choice with WotC going for pairings with subclasses. Open hand unarmed strike focus with Kensei weapon focused.
Mercy may be the strongest subclass for monk but I always felt its theme was weird with the whole mask thing. Maybe it was just my lack of imagination.
I like mercy a lot, although I do tend to ignore the mask thing myself. Thing is, it does not sound like they are planning on changing mercy a whole lot, which is fine, but it also means that it doesnt benefit from being reprinted in the new PBH.
I also think that "weapon wielding monk" is a stronger and more common archetype than "magic doctor monk". A bit odd to include such an exotic and specific monk fantasy before covering the basics.
Eventually, I'd like to see them adapt the UA Fighter Brawler into a monk subclass. Something more akin to a street fighter, using improvised weapons, dirty fighting tactics, and grappling/submission holds. It could perhaps be like an amalgam of the Brawler and the Drunken Boxer subclasses.
I would like to see a strength based monk, good at grappling and perhaps a lil tankier than your average monk.
I don’t think we will ever see a good method of making a STR monk. And if they keep grappling to a saving throw there isn’t a good way to build to a grapple build either. Iirc.
I would like to see a strength based monk, good at grappling and perhaps a lil tankier than your average monk.
I don’t think we will ever see a good method of making a STR monk. And if they keep grappling to a saving throw there isn’t a good way to build to a grapple build either. Iirc.
What are your thoughts on grapple now that the video is live? With monks being able to use their dex for grappling, that does seem promising. Granted, I love the monk but would not be able to call myself an expert on the class. I see you in just about every monk thread though, so I am looking for your opinion on this.
As for Strength, it does seem the only way to have a strength-based build is to RP it as such.
Moving grapple to a saving throw opens some doors and closes others. For monk in particular stunned enemies will automatically fail str saves so you can open with a stunning strike.
They didn't change what level monk subclasses get features at, so Kensei is compatible as-is. But there's two simple and intuitive changes that I would make to it to bring it forward, and one really out-there change.
First is weapon mastery for your kensei weapons.
Second, the kensei weapon selection allowed you to select from a larger pool of weapon types than the regular monk weapons. Given that pool has expanded from the old phb to the new, the kensei pool will have to expand as well. Previously, it expanded from simple (not two-handed or heavy) to simple (not heavy) or martial (not heavy). Now they have access to two-handed and heavy simple weapons, as well as light martial weapons in the base pool. This means that, to avoid losing weapons going from base monk to kensei subclass in the new phb, or from the old to new phb within the kensei subclass, the new kensei pool would need to include all simple weapons as well as all non-heavy martial weapons. The only question that remains is if it would include martial heavy weapons as well.
Third: Fighters and barbarians get to alter the weapon mastery properties on their weapons. I think kensei monks should be able to do this too, probably by giving all their kensei weapons all the mastery properties of their other kensei weapons (you'd still only be able to use one property per attack).
In addition to weapon masteries, I would love to see the new kensei get access to a limited selection of fighting styles. Maybe two weapon fighting and dueling. Why not? Swords bard does. If ki fueled attack is still in play and the new two weapon fighting rules the kensei could do up to 4 weapon attacks. Not bad.
I'd love a drunken master subclass with the addition of brawler (a cut fighter subclass) features. An acrobatic monk that uses improvised weapons with martial arts dice to get access to properties like reach and thrown, and perhaps some weapon masteries. A Jackie Chan subclass, if you will.
I do think it's a real shame that we aren't getting an updated kensei, with the weapon mastery system being one of the more significant additions, it'd be cool to see the kensei interact with the the system in a unique way.
I agree. Kensei would have been the better choice with WotC going for pairings with subclasses. Open hand unarmed strike focus with Kensei weapon focused.
Mercy may be the strongest subclass for monk but I always felt its theme was weird with the whole mask thing. Maybe it was just my lack of imagination.
Agreed. I've played a Mercy monk because of the mechanics, but I completely ignored the flavour. The flavour doesn't make any sense to me - plague doctors did not kick-box people. I did use a Mercy Monk as an NPC in a mini-campaign and there I flavoured it like reflexology - he pinched different nerve clusters to reenergize or reawaken people. I much prefer the Kensei flavour but the 2014 mechanics suck.
Moving grapple to a saving throw opens some doors and closes others. For monk in particular stunned enemies will automatically fail str saves so you can open with a stunning strike.
Yup, this is the only way that grappling makes sense if they keep grapple as a saving throw in the new edition. If the enemy doesn't have some kind of penalty to the STR save it's not worth trying to grapple.
With PHB going for Opposing themed subclasses
I will go first
Open Hand = the I need no weapons Monk
Kensie = I am one with my weapon
Warrior of elements = The natural World (element wise)
Warrior of Shadow = The unnatural world (realm of shadow)
Mercy is the Heal/Harm warrior (A mix of 2 foci)
I think it’s pretty set with Open hand, Shadow, Elements, and Mercy. Unless they do a switch for Mercy. Kensei will have to await for another book unfortunately. We only get 4 subclasses in the PhB
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Keeping the Open Hand, Shadow and Four Elements subclasses was a no-brainer, especially with the new Elements Monk being such a big improvement. Of the available choices for the fourth subclass, I'm glad to see Mercy get the promotion. It's a fascinating subclass with lots of interesting story potential.
I do think it's a real shame that we aren't getting an updated kensei, with the weapon mastery system being one of the more significant additions, it'd be cool to see the kensei interact with the the system in a unique way.
I agree. Kensei would have been the better choice with WotC going for pairings with subclasses. Open hand unarmed strike focus with Kensei weapon focused.
Mercy may be the strongest subclass for monk but I always felt its theme was weird with the whole mask thing. Maybe it was just my lack of imagination.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I like mercy a lot, although I do tend to ignore the mask thing myself. Thing is, it does not sound like they are planning on changing mercy a whole lot, which is fine, but it also means that it doesnt benefit from being reprinted in the new PBH.
I also think that "weapon wielding monk" is a stronger and more common archetype than "magic doctor monk". A bit odd to include such an exotic and specific monk fantasy before covering the basics.
Eventually, I'd like to see them adapt the UA Fighter Brawler into a monk subclass. Something more akin to a street fighter, using improvised weapons, dirty fighting tactics, and grappling/submission holds. It could perhaps be like an amalgam of the Brawler and the Drunken Boxer subclasses.
I would like to see a strength based monk, good at grappling and perhaps a lil tankier than your average monk.
I don’t think we will ever see a good method of making a STR monk. And if they keep grappling to a saving throw there isn’t a good way to build to a grapple build either. Iirc.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Well it seems now its possible to do so with Dex.
What are your thoughts on grapple now that the video is live? With monks being able to use their dex for grappling, that does seem promising. Granted, I love the monk but would not be able to call myself an expert on the class. I see you in just about every monk thread though, so I am looking for your opinion on this.
As for Strength, it does seem the only way to have a strength-based build is to RP it as such.
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Moving grapple to a saving throw opens some doors and closes others. For monk in particular stunned enemies will automatically fail str saves so you can open with a stunning strike.
They didn't change what level monk subclasses get features at, so Kensei is compatible as-is. But there's two simple and intuitive changes that I would make to it to bring it forward, and one really out-there change.
First is weapon mastery for your kensei weapons.
Second, the kensei weapon selection allowed you to select from a larger pool of weapon types than the regular monk weapons. Given that pool has expanded from the old phb to the new, the kensei pool will have to expand as well. Previously, it expanded from simple (not two-handed or heavy) to simple (not heavy) or martial (not heavy). Now they have access to two-handed and heavy simple weapons, as well as light martial weapons in the base pool. This means that, to avoid losing weapons going from base monk to kensei subclass in the new phb, or from the old to new phb within the kensei subclass, the new kensei pool would need to include all simple weapons as well as all non-heavy martial weapons. The only question that remains is if it would include martial heavy weapons as well.
Third: Fighters and barbarians get to alter the weapon mastery properties on their weapons. I think kensei monks should be able to do this too, probably by giving all their kensei weapons all the mastery properties of their other kensei weapons (you'd still only be able to use one property per attack).
In addition to weapon masteries, I would love to see the new kensei get access to a limited selection of fighting styles. Maybe two weapon fighting and dueling. Why not? Swords bard does. If ki fueled attack is still in play and the new two weapon fighting rules the kensei could do up to 4 weapon attacks. Not bad.
I'd love a drunken master subclass with the addition of brawler (a cut fighter subclass) features. An acrobatic monk that uses improvised weapons with martial arts dice to get access to properties like reach and thrown, and perhaps some weapon masteries. A Jackie Chan subclass, if you will.
Agreed. I've played a Mercy monk because of the mechanics, but I completely ignored the flavour. The flavour doesn't make any sense to me - plague doctors did not kick-box people. I did use a Mercy Monk as an NPC in a mini-campaign and there I flavoured it like reflexology - he pinched different nerve clusters to reenergize or reawaken people. I much prefer the Kensei flavour but the 2014 mechanics suck.
Yup, this is the only way that grappling makes sense if they keep grapple as a saving throw in the new edition. If the enemy doesn't have some kind of penalty to the STR save it's not worth trying to grapple.
I think we should have a more religious monk
I totally get that my opinion is in the minority, but I think Hexblade is entirely sufficient for Kensei.
The trope is becoming a master of a specific weapon which, itself, is credited with being exceptional and often supernatural in some way.
Nothing stops someone from RPing a religious monk. Or dip cleric. Or play cleric with the unarmed fighting style.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?