I am sorry, but apart from the Trickery Domain, the other 3 current options feel either boring, or underwhelming. The Life Domain’s is solid, as it lessens his need for using a healing word, but the subclass as a whole is very, very generic (plus has the ‚healbot‘ neon sign pinned on it‘s fore head). The Light Domain‘s is a minion killer, which might complement the blaster theme, but outclassed at higher levels. The War Domain‘s is good, but not good enough for such few charges per long rest. When I look at the Devotion Paladin‘s Sacred Weapon… if I could boost an ally‘s weapon like that for only 1 minute…
Why can‘t clerics get proper Channel Divinities, which also somewhat compensate for the lack of a „Divine Recovery“, much like „Arcane Recovery, „Natural Recovery“, etc. And something which can really boost your allies prowess. It does not need to be as broken as Twilight Sanctuary, but going along the same lines. After all, the cleric is supposed to be a supporter, if not THE supporter.
When I look at „Preserved Land“ from the Preservation Druid from the Apocalyptic UA…a bit overpowered, but the idea as such. Why can‘t we see effects like that as Channel Divinities for the cleric.
Just a guess, but I think WotC was trying to avoid making them too powerful, as happened with some of the later options before the 2024 rework. Some of the options available in the later expanded rules were...unbalanced, to say the least. Here are a couple examples.
Twilight domain allowed for Temp HP that scaled with your Cleric level for the whole party EVERY TURN. This meant that over a 5-round combat, with a party of 4, you could generate hundreds of temporary HP to shield the entire party, concentration free. On top of that, you could have a spell like Aura of Vitality going to heal up whatever damage manages to get through the regenerating Temp HP.
Tempest domain allowed you to max out the Lightning damage of a spell...which became truly broken when used on high level spells like Chain Lightning available from multiclassing with Wizard or Sorcerer. Just think, casting Chain Lightning with Heightened Spell from Sorcerer to give disadvantage on the saving throw, and automatic max damage.
Just a guess, but I think WotC was trying to avoid making them too powerful, as happened with some of the later options before the 2024 rework. Some of the options available in the later expanded rules were...unbalanced, to say the least. Here are a couple examples.
I think I mentioned Twilight Sanctuary in my thread starter. Yes, it was too powerful. A possible fix would have been that Twilight Sanctuary would only work at the start of the Clerics turn, being able to grant THP to only one target, but also removing a charmed, or frightened effect on the same, or another target. That would still have been pretty potent, but not as broken as the original version. And it would be a support ability. Not blasting like maxing Chain Lightnings, etc.
Tempest domain was in the ‘14 PHB, it’s not one of the later options. And twilight clerics aren’t as OP as people say. I’m DMing one right now. I don’t do anything special, and the combats are still challenging, characters still drop (and twilight sanctuary doesn’t get them back up) and characters have still died. I feel like most people who say they’re OP just look at white room numbers and haven’t actually played with one.
But to the OP’s question. Clerics channels are much more versatile. There’s the subclass power, plus turn undead, plus divine spark. Turn won’t always be useful, but when it is it can trivialize an encounter. Divine spark is always a good option for some no spell slot healing that recharges on a short rest, or guaranteed damage — even if the enemy saves the cleric is doing something. Paladins get their subclass power and divine sense, which is practically just a ribbon ability. It can be situationally useful, but how often do you really see it used?
I would take Nature’s Wrath, Sacred Weapon, or Vow of Emnity over any current Cleric subclass CD any day, especially if the latter two could be bestowed upon other party members.
Besides, Turn Undead is not only situational, but can is quite unreliable too, especially when the DM does not roll in the open. Sear Undead should deal half damage on a save in order to make Turn Undead somewhat worthwhile.
And Divine Spark is very underwhelming, and imho a waste of a CD charge, even with the other options not being all that great either, because the healing and damage is not great from the beginning, and scales very poorly. Divine Spark would be somewhat worth considering if the healing/damage was 1/2/3/4d8 + wisdom modifier + cleric level, or alternatively 2/4/6/8d8 + wisdom modifier. As it is now, it‘s just a ‚reliable damage cantrip with potent spellcasting,, but not at-will‘ at worst, and a lvl 2 cure wounds at best.
I agree with ya on Twilight Cleric. I played one in a Curse of Strahd campaign, and while it certainly was useful, there still was deadly encounters and risk of death.
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I am sorry, but apart from the Trickery Domain, the other 3 current options feel either boring, or underwhelming. The Life Domain’s is solid, as it lessens his need for using a healing word, but the subclass as a whole is very, very generic (plus has the ‚healbot‘ neon sign pinned on it‘s fore head). The Light Domain‘s is a minion killer, which might complement the blaster theme, but outclassed at higher levels. The War Domain‘s is good, but not good enough for such few charges per long rest. When I look at the Devotion Paladin‘s Sacred Weapon… if I could boost an ally‘s weapon like that for only 1 minute…
Why can‘t clerics get proper Channel Divinities, which also somewhat compensate for the lack of a „Divine Recovery“, much like „Arcane Recovery, „Natural Recovery“, etc. And something which can really boost your allies prowess. It does not need to be as broken as Twilight Sanctuary, but going along the same lines. After all, the cleric is supposed to be a supporter, if not THE supporter.
When I look at „Preserved Land“ from the Preservation Druid from the Apocalyptic UA…a bit overpowered, but the idea as such. Why can‘t we see effects like that as Channel Divinities for the cleric.
Just a guess, but I think WotC was trying to avoid making them too powerful, as happened with some of the later options before the 2024 rework. Some of the options available in the later expanded rules were...unbalanced, to say the least. Here are a couple examples.
Twilight domain allowed for Temp HP that scaled with your Cleric level for the whole party EVERY TURN. This meant that over a 5-round combat, with a party of 4, you could generate hundreds of temporary HP to shield the entire party, concentration free. On top of that, you could have a spell like Aura of Vitality going to heal up whatever damage manages to get through the regenerating Temp HP.
Tempest domain allowed you to max out the Lightning damage of a spell...which became truly broken when used on high level spells like Chain Lightning available from multiclassing with Wizard or Sorcerer. Just think, casting Chain Lightning with Heightened Spell from Sorcerer to give disadvantage on the saving throw, and automatic max damage.
I think I mentioned Twilight Sanctuary in my thread starter. Yes, it was too powerful. A possible fix would have been that Twilight Sanctuary would only work at the start of the Clerics turn, being able to grant THP to only one target, but also removing a charmed, or frightened effect on the same, or another target. That would still have been pretty potent, but not as broken as the original version. And it would be a support ability. Not blasting like maxing Chain Lightnings, etc.
Tempest domain was in the ‘14 PHB, it’s not one of the later options. And twilight clerics aren’t as OP as people say. I’m DMing one right now. I don’t do anything special, and the combats are still challenging, characters still drop (and twilight sanctuary doesn’t get them back up) and characters have still died. I feel like most people who say they’re OP just look at white room numbers and haven’t actually played with one.
But to the OP’s question. Clerics channels are much more versatile. There’s the subclass power, plus turn undead, plus divine spark. Turn won’t always be useful, but when it is it can trivialize an encounter. Divine spark is always a good option for some no spell slot healing that recharges on a short rest, or guaranteed damage — even if the enemy saves the cleric is doing something.
Paladins get their subclass power and divine sense, which is practically just a ribbon ability. It can be situationally useful, but how often do you really see it used?
I would take Nature’s Wrath, Sacred Weapon, or Vow of Emnity over any current Cleric subclass CD any day, especially if the latter two could be bestowed upon other party members.
Besides, Turn Undead is not only situational, but can is quite unreliable too, especially when the DM does not roll in the open. Sear Undead should deal half damage on a save in order to make Turn Undead somewhat worthwhile.
And Divine Spark is very underwhelming, and imho a waste of a CD charge, even with the other options not being all that great either, because the healing and damage is not great from the beginning, and scales very poorly. Divine Spark would be somewhat worth considering if the healing/damage was 1/2/3/4d8 + wisdom modifier + cleric level, or alternatively 2/4/6/8d8 + wisdom modifier. As it is now, it‘s just a ‚reliable damage cantrip with potent spellcasting,, but not at-will‘ at worst, and a lvl 2 cure wounds at best.
This is not a mechanic problem or evidence that Turn Undead is unreliable. Rather, it is an implied DM problem.
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Well, even if the roll was not covered, there is a not too low chance for the undead to save against the roll, especially the ones of higher tiers.
I agree with ya on Twilight Cleric. I played one in a Curse of Strahd campaign, and while it certainly was useful, there still was deadly encounters and risk of death.