So, looking at the new subclasses, there's a couple things that cross my mind:
1. I'd like to see one or two more spells on the Archivist that deal psychic damage; looking at the spells, I realize there aren't that many, but I'd like it if they could fit one or two 2nd/5th level spells into their list.
2. The healing function of Arcane Jolt for the Battle Smith seems a little weird; maybe make it so you don't need to attack in order to use it?
Unless they are specific spells that are given to the subclass, I think all direct damage spells should be removed from the Artificer. Also I feel that the Archivist subclass is better suited for the Wizard.
As for the Battle Smith subclass, Arcane Jolt does seem a little weird. The name implies electrocution, so with that being said, force damage should be replaced with lightning damage. Also I feel the healing function doesn't fit well with Arcane Jolt.
If you were to use the Infuse Item infusion "Many-Handed Pouch" you would use up all of your infusions. Each pouch would be an Infused Item thus taking up an Infuse Item slot and yes each player with a Many-Handed Pouch would be able to use Magical Telephony.
I don't know. Direct damage spells should be in the Artificer's repertoire but maybe limited to the Artillerist .
Booming Blade & Green flame blade should be among our cantrips though.
That's why I said Artillerist's Spell list shouldn't be touched. Direct damage spells work with this class. Unfortunately, if you only give the Artillerist direct damage cantrips you need to rework the subclass.
So, looking at the new subclasses, there's a couple things that cross my mind:
1. I'd like to see one or two more spells on the Archivist that deal psychic damage; looking at the spells, I realize there aren't that many, but I'd like it if they could fit one or two 2nd/5th level spells into their list.
2. The healing function of Arcane Jolt for the Battle Smith seems a little weird; maybe make it so you don't need to attack in order to use it?
Unless they are specific spells that are given to the subclass, I think all direct damage spells should be removed from the Artificer. Also I feel that the Archivist subclass is better suited for the Wizard.
As for the Battle Smith subclass, Arcane Jolt does seem a little weird. The name implies electrocution, so with that being said, force damage should be replaced with lightning damage. Also I feel the healing function doesn't fit well with Arcane Jolt.
I concur, damaging spells should be subclass-specific, and truth be told I kinda feel the same way about healing/restoration spells too. The only other way I can think of adding them is through Infusions (kinda like certain Invocations with Warlocks), though I also think that's a bit of a slippery slope.
I can see your point about the Archivist, it does fit the flavor of a wizard pretty well. In any event, I think this is the one I like best, I just think it may need some tweaking to keep from being OP.
And yeah, I like Battle Smith, but I think Arcane Jolt may need a little rethink, though it also occurs to me that if Arcane Armament is remade into a subclass feature in the next revision that would probably end up replacing Arcane Jolt at 6th level.
If you were to use the Infuse Item infusion "Many-Handed Pouch" you would use up all of your infusions. Each pouch would be an Infused Item thus taking up an Infuse Item slot and yes each player with a Many-Handed Pouch would be able to use Magical Telephony.
The infusion Many-Handed Pouch creates 2-5 pouches as a single use of an infusion.
It's also important to note that each infusion can only be used once at any given time. You cannot, for example, outfit the entire party with magical weapons from the Enhanced Weapon infusion.
You must touch each of the objects, and each of your infusions can be in only one object at a time.
I’ve got to say I don’t agree with you on damaging spells.
The way I see it you are just a bit too focused on only one iconic type of Artificer which doesn’t even deserve to be a half caster, just a crafter. More of a martial class like monks.
The other type of Artificer that brings the increased magical aspects is the Ebberon Artificer that also deserves an equal iconic position. Someone with low skill in magic so uses items to improve his abilities and becomes master of lower level abilities.
And since it is their goal to filling the Int half-caster position, I think WotC is doing the correct thing of blending two Archetypical Artificers together to make a class that does enough to appeal to a wider percentage of the player base.
If your thought process is just “This is supposed to be primarily a support, so should have no damaging spells” please remember that Bard is also a support but has about the same amount of damaging spells.
If people want to know what's appropriate for an Artificer thematically, they should probably read some Eberron fiction.
Lei, from Keith Baker's own Dreaming Dark trilogy, routinely serves as a healer, as well as using items to throw damaging spells around, using what's clearly shocking grasp, and similar things. If built in the current 5E version, she most closely resembles an Alchemist rather than one of the more 'combative' archetypes, and she's certainly not a dedicated warrior in-universe (though she's competent). Given that particular work is, as mentioned, written by Keith Baker it seems like anything that makes her whole style of combat impossible for someone like her is likely doing it wrong.
Now, Lei also almost entirely lacks a pet (she's shown in one scene with a homonculus, reinforcing that alchemist thing, but does not take it adventuring with her). So a non-pet version very much does seem reasonable based on this criteria, but getting rid of all (or even most) offensive spells? Not so much.
I think what could work is a more dramatic approach to reflavoring spellcasting. Instead of spellcasting with Tools Required I suggest we go all out, replace Spellcasting with the following:
Spell Conduit
At 2nd level, you have learned how to anchor the weave to magic items. You can craft conduits out of weapons, armors or mundane looking items which then act as conduits to spell like abilities. These are drawn from other classes’ spell lists but are restricted to the below “Artificer Conduit List.” (renamed spell list)
You can craft up to Int Mod + half your Artificer level of these conduits and can double up on spells from the list if needed. Over the course of a Longrest you can rework up to Int Mod of these items to recreate different spells on the list. If disarmed of these Spell Conduit Items, you can recraft up to your Int Mod of these as improvised conduits over the period of a Long Rest or replaced at a town at a cost of 100g each.
These items can be used by any allied creature but only within 30ft of you, as the conduits draw from a power source connected to you, be that magical or technological in nature. This power source refreshes on long rest and increases with level as per the Conduit Slots table (renamed from Spell Slots table) and can be powered by other classes spell slots as detailed in the multiclassing optional rules.
When activated the items use a Spellcasting modifier defined of your Int Mod, but take the Spell’s required Action and act as if cast by the activating creature, using their concentration if required. The conduit item is not consumed in the process.
(I may be missing some things please look at the Intent instead of the RAW）
This would make thematic sense to those of you who prefer full crafting focus Artificer and maintain the lore of an Ebberon Artificer, and I think more cleanly does what they intended to do with Tools required. And yes I intend this still be paired with DMG/XGTE magic item crafting, but with this being the more active combat focused crafting giving a lot of extra options of what to do in combat.
On balance I see that this is a whole different ballpark, giving a crazy unique way of playing Artificer as every spell known becomes a spell stored item, but it maintains most of the limitations of Spellcasting, while interestingly giving Artificer a super strong and unique Utility party role. Turn your Barbarian’s Greataxe into a conduit for Arcane weapon, etc. I though don’t think it is that over powered because it doesn’t give that much numerical advantage just a lot of flexibility and theme driven mechanics.
I've been meaning to mention this for awhile. Does anyone else think they forgot Mending has a 1 minute cast time? It seems like a weird spell to use for healing Artificer pets. It can't be used in combat due to its casting time, and outside of combat you can just spam it for a full heal.
I've been meaning to mention this for awhile. Does anyone else think they forgot Mending has a 1 minute cast time? It seems like a weird spell to use for healing Artificer pets. It can't be used in combat due to its casting time, and outside of combat you can just spam it for a full heal.
I'd guess that in combat you can use leveled spells like cure wounds, and the point of mending is to spam it out of combat.
I've been meaning to mention this for awhile. Does anyone else think they forgot Mending has a 1 minute cast time? It seems like a weird spell to use for healing Artificer pets. It can't be used in combat due to its casting time, and outside of combat you can just spam it for a full heal.
I'd guess that in combat you can use leveled spells like cure wounds, and the point of mending is to spam it out of combat.
Cure Wounds has no effect on Artificer pets.
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I've been meaning to mention this for awhile. Does anyone else think they forgot Mending has a 1 minute cast time? It seems like a weird spell to use for healing Artificer pets. It can't be used in combat due to its casting time, and outside of combat you can just spam it for a full heal.
I'd guess that in combat you can use leveled spells like cure wounds, and the point of mending is to spam it out of combat.
Cure Wounds has no effect on Artificer pets.
Granted Cure Wounds does not effect the Artillerist's Turrets or the Archivist's Manifest Mind (Though it doesn't matter for the Manifested Mind since it is invulnerable) because they are objects, the Homunculus and Iron Defender are both creatures, so Cure Wounds works on them.
Additionally, I expect they knew that Mending has a 1 minute casting time and is intended to be used as a heal outside of combat. The one companion that needs healing the most, the Iron Defender, has a 3/Day repair ability it can use in combat.
I've been meaning to mention this for awhile. Does anyone else think they forgot Mending has a 1 minute cast time? It seems like a weird spell to use for healing Artificer pets. It can't be used in combat due to its casting time, and outside of combat you can just spam it for a full heal.
I'd guess that in combat you can use leveled spells like cure wounds, and the point of mending is to spam it out of combat.
Cure Wounds has no effect on Artificer pets.
Granted Cure Wounds does not effect the Artillerist's Turrets or the Archivist's Manifest Mind (Though it doesn't matter for the Manifested Mind since it is invulnerable) because they are objects, the Homunculus and Iron Defender are both creatures, so Cure Wounds works on them.
Additionally, I expect they knew that Mending has a 1 minute casting time and is intended to be used as a heal outside of combat. The one companion that needs healing the most, the Iron Defender, has a 3/Day repair ability it can use in combat.
Actually, the Iron Defender and Homunculus are constructs. And Cure Wounds has no effect on constructs.
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How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
I've been meaning to mention this for awhile. Does anyone else think they forgot Mending has a 1 minute cast time? It seems like a weird spell to use for healing Artificer pets. It can't be used in combat due to its casting time, and outside of combat you can just spam it for a full heal.
What gives me a laugh is that mending takes 1 minute but the Arcane Turret only lasts 10 minutes . . .
It's not worth repairing. Better just to Detonate it before it dies or just let it go. In my opinion it isn't worth repairing unlike the Alchemical Homonculus.
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Watch your back, conserve your ammo, and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I've been meaning to mention this for awhile. Does anyone else think they forgot Mending has a 1 minute cast time? It seems like a weird spell to use for healing Artificer pets. It can't be used in combat due to its casting time, and outside of combat you can just spam it for a full heal.
I'd guess that in combat you can use leveled spells like cure wounds, and the point of mending is to spam it out of combat.
Cure Wounds has no effect on Artificer pets.
Granted Cure Wounds does not effect the Artillerist's Turrets or the Archivist's Manifest Mind (Though it doesn't matter for the Manifested Mind since it is invulnerable) because they are objects, the Homunculus and Iron Defender are both creatures, so Cure Wounds works on them.
Additionally, I expect they knew that Mending has a 1 minute casting time and is intended to be used as a heal outside of combat. The one companion that needs healing the most, the Iron Defender, has a 3/Day repair ability it can use in combat.
Actually, the Iron Defender and Homunculus are constructs. And Cure Wounds has no effect on constructs.
I didn't know that, I thought it affected all creatures.
Perhaps they could add a feature that lets Mending have a casting time of one action? It wouldn't be particularly broken in combat, since you're eating up your action that you could otherwise be using to multiattack with. As a general rule, healing is something you save for emergencies, since you'll typically heal less damage than your enemies can inflict, and that would apply to repairing as well.
With Iron Defender, you can either spend 1 minute to heal it 2d6 with Mending, or you can let it die and spend one action to start the repairs and watch as it gets up with full health one minute later.
It really does seem like something is off with how much mending can heal.
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Unless they are specific spells that are given to the subclass, I think all direct damage spells should be removed from the Artificer. Also I feel that the Archivist subclass is better suited for the Wizard.
As for the Battle Smith subclass, Arcane Jolt does seem a little weird. The name implies electrocution, so with that being said, force damage should be replaced with lightning damage. Also I feel the healing function doesn't fit well with Arcane Jolt.
@uthidar
If you were to use the Infuse Item infusion "Many-Handed Pouch" you would use up all of your infusions. Each pouch would be an Infused Item thus taking up an Infuse Item slot and yes each player with a Many-Handed Pouch would be able to use Magical Telephony.
How does your character have a +2 hand crossbow at 5th level?
That's why I said Artillerist's Spell list shouldn't be touched. Direct damage spells work with this class. Unfortunately, if you only give the Artillerist direct damage cantrips you need to rework the subclass.
I concur, damaging spells should be subclass-specific, and truth be told I kinda feel the same way about healing/restoration spells too. The only other way I can think of adding them is through Infusions (kinda like certain Invocations with Warlocks), though I also think that's a bit of a slippery slope.
I can see your point about the Archivist, it does fit the flavor of a wizard pretty well. In any event, I think this is the one I like best, I just think it may need some tweaking to keep from being OP.
And yeah, I like Battle Smith, but I think Arcane Jolt may need a little rethink, though it also occurs to me that if Arcane Armament is remade into a subclass feature in the next revision that would probably end up replacing Arcane Jolt at 6th level.
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D&D Beyond FoundersThe infusion Many-Handed Pouch creates 2-5 pouches as a single use of an infusion.
It's also important to note that each infusion can only be used once at any given time. You cannot, for example, outfit the entire party with magical weapons from the Enhanced Weapon infusion.
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I’ve got to say I don’t agree with you on damaging spells.
The way I see it you are just a bit too focused on only one iconic type of Artificer which doesn’t even deserve to be a half caster, just a crafter. More of a martial class like monks.
The other type of Artificer that brings the increased magical aspects is the Ebberon Artificer that also deserves an equal iconic position. Someone with low skill in magic so uses items to improve his abilities and becomes master of lower level abilities.
And since it is their goal to filling the Int half-caster position, I think WotC is doing the correct thing of blending two Archetypical Artificers together to make a class that does enough to appeal to a wider percentage of the player base.
If your thought process is just “This is supposed to be primarily a support, so should have no damaging spells” please remember that Bard is also a support but has about the same amount of damaging spells.
If people want to know what's appropriate for an Artificer thematically, they should probably read some Eberron fiction.
Lei, from Keith Baker's own Dreaming Dark trilogy, routinely serves as a healer, as well as using items to throw damaging spells around, using what's clearly shocking grasp, and similar things. If built in the current 5E version, she most closely resembles an Alchemist rather than one of the more 'combative' archetypes, and she's certainly not a dedicated warrior in-universe (though she's competent). Given that particular work is, as mentioned, written by Keith Baker it seems like anything that makes her whole style of combat impossible for someone like her is likely doing it wrong.
Now, Lei also almost entirely lacks a pet (she's shown in one scene with a homonculus, reinforcing that alchemist thing, but does not take it adventuring with her). So a non-pet version very much does seem reasonable based on this criteria, but getting rid of all (or even most) offensive spells? Not so much.
I think what could work is a more dramatic approach to reflavoring spellcasting. Instead of spellcasting with Tools Required I suggest we go all out, replace Spellcasting with the following:
Spell Conduit
At 2nd level, you have learned how to anchor the weave to magic items. You can craft conduits out of weapons, armors or mundane looking items which then act as conduits to spell like abilities. These are drawn from other classes’ spell lists but are restricted to the below “Artificer Conduit List.” (renamed spell list)
You can craft up to Int Mod + half your Artificer level of these conduits and can double up on spells from the list if needed. Over the course of a Longrest you can rework up to Int Mod of these items to recreate different spells on the list. If disarmed of these Spell Conduit Items, you can recraft up to your Int Mod of these as improvised conduits over the period of a Long Rest or replaced at a town at a cost of 100g each.
These items can be used by any allied creature but only within 30ft of you, as the conduits draw from a power source connected to you, be that magical or technological in nature. This power source refreshes on long rest and increases with level as per the Conduit Slots table (renamed from Spell Slots table) and can be powered by other classes spell slots as detailed in the multiclassing optional rules.
When activated the items use a Spellcasting modifier defined of your Int Mod, but take the Spell’s required Action and act as if cast by the activating creature, using their concentration if required. The conduit item is not consumed in the process.
(I may be missing some things please look at the Intent instead of the RAW）
This would make thematic sense to those of you who prefer full crafting focus Artificer and maintain the lore of an Ebberon Artificer, and I think more cleanly does what they intended to do with Tools required. And yes I intend this still be paired with DMG/XGTE magic item crafting, but with this being the more active combat focused crafting giving a lot of extra options of what to do in combat.
On balance I see that this is a whole different ballpark, giving a crazy unique way of playing Artificer as every spell known becomes a spell stored item, but it maintains most of the limitations of Spellcasting, while interestingly giving Artificer a super strong and unique Utility party role. Turn your Barbarian’s Greataxe into a conduit for Arcane weapon, etc. I though don’t think it is that over powered because it doesn’t give that much numerical advantage just a lot of flexibility and theme driven mechanics.
I've been meaning to mention this for awhile. Does anyone else think they forgot Mending has a 1 minute cast time? It seems like a weird spell to use for healing Artificer pets. It can't be used in combat due to its casting time, and outside of combat you can just spam it for a full heal.
I suspect you're right. When the survey comes out, that's some really good feedback we should make a point of providing.
I'd guess that in combat you can use leveled spells like cure wounds, and the point of mending is to spam it out of combat.
DM for 3 campaigns
Lizardfolk Battle Smith Artificer
Gnome War Wizard
Human Tempest Cleric
Except the turret, that is.
DM for 3 campaigns
Lizardfolk Battle Smith Artificer
Gnome War Wizard
Human Tempest Cleric
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ModeratorCure Wounds has no effect on Artificer pets.
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Granted Cure Wounds does not effect the Artillerist's Turrets or the Archivist's Manifest Mind (Though it doesn't matter for the Manifested Mind since it is invulnerable) because they are objects, the Homunculus and Iron Defender are both creatures, so Cure Wounds works on them.
Additionally, I expect they knew that Mending has a 1 minute casting time and is intended to be used as a heal outside of combat. The one companion that needs healing the most, the Iron Defender, has a 3/Day repair ability it can use in combat.
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ModeratorActually, the Iron Defender and Homunculus are constructs. And Cure Wounds has no effect on constructs.
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What gives me a laugh is that mending takes 1 minute but the Arcane Turret only lasts 10 minutes . . .
It's not worth repairing. Better just to Detonate it before it dies or just let it go. In my opinion it isn't worth repairing unlike the Alchemical Homonculus.
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I didn't know that, I thought it affected all creatures.
DM for 3 campaigns
Lizardfolk Battle Smith Artificer
Gnome War Wizard
Human Tempest Cleric
Perhaps they could add a feature that lets Mending have a casting time of one action? It wouldn't be particularly broken in combat, since you're eating up your action that you could otherwise be using to multiattack with. As a general rule, healing is something you save for emergencies, since you'll typically heal less damage than your enemies can inflict, and that would apply to repairing as well.
With Iron Defender, you can either spend 1 minute to heal it 2d6 with Mending, or you can let it die and spend one action to start the repairs and watch as it gets up with full health one minute later.
It really does seem like something is off with how much mending can heal.