I like the added spells on aberrant but there is no way that is surviving as is. Every other origin gets (at best) a spell (ds) or 2 (shadow, using s. points). It really puts it way ahead of the others (that frankly, should get bonus spells per origin, but that's been beat to death).
Don't know why they are even there I am so confident they'll be removed.
For those who haven't realized lurker warlock is an attempt to officially publish the Kraken patron that Mearls (or Crawford?) Made as an example of a homebrew subclass.
Ironically enough, I'm starting a campaign within the next few weeks and a player asked to use it, I actually added it onto dndb and then this pops up. D'oh. The biggest difference is that the tentacle attacks 1d8 with a BA in this one yet the tentacle actually restraints as a full action (I think I prefer the restrain even as an action for more crowd control).
They add swimming at lv6 instead of lv10. Kraken had 'inky escape' for lv6. Cast darkness as a reaction to which you can see through'
Lightning immunity was given AND any lightning attacks reduced to 0 convert to hp (too strong at lv 10 so gave resistance & made it improve to imm/heal at lv14).
In regards to the sorcerer, I love it. I was always meh with the sorcerer. A warlock main through and through with sorcerer subs interesting but doesnt grab me as much as this one.
Also I dont see the issue with the perma-armor just cuz draconic has it.. draconic & divine both get wings. No one is complaining about that
-Brainstorm? Aberrant lvl 1 AC buff replacements: 1. spend 2 sorcery points to gain 1d6 bonus on intelligence saves. 2. Expertise in Intelligence saving throws?? that's all right now.
I don't understand why everyone is complaining about the level 1 armor simply because draco has it too.. Why is no one complaining that draco & divine both give wings (don't say 'well not a lot of people get that high so it doesn't matter')
additionally, why is no one complaining about Aberrant's 14 feature instead. for 1 sorcery point each it gives flying (again, just like draco & divine) AND swimming & breathing AND semi truesight AND squeezing & grapple/escape advantage (or don't complain, its super cool)
Being physically tougher doesn't feel like what the class should be about IMPO, 14th isn't that strong, getting all of them would be a waste of 4 sorcery points, who needs to be able to fly and swim within the same minute? The strongest parts are definitely the de facto blindsight and squeezing through really tight spaces.
Being physically tougher doesn't feel like what the class should be about IMPO, 14th isn't that strong, getting all of them would be a waste of 4 sorcery points, who needs to be able to fly and swim within the same minute? The strongest parts are definitely the de facto blindsight and squeezing through really tight spaces.
How about the sorcerer getting grabbed by a kraken tentacle and pulled into black water? Now he needs all of it: Escaping grapples, blindsight, swimming, and flying (getting out of the water.)
Being physically tougher doesn't feel like what the class should be about IMPO, 14th isn't that strong, getting all of them would be a waste of 4 sorcery points, who needs to be able to fly and swim within the same minute? The strongest parts are definitely the de facto blindsight and squeezing through really tight spaces.
It's not about having all 4 at the same time for 4 sorcery points (at level 14, 4 points isnt a lot).
Its about having 4 GREAT features rolled into one. Even having one of these 4 would be nifty so I dont think level 1 armor is a big deal nor even understand why other people think so
Being physically tougher doesn't feel like what the class should be about IMPO, 14th isn't that strong, getting all of them would be a waste of 4 sorcery points, who needs to be able to fly and swim within the same minute? The strongest parts are definitely the de facto blindsight and squeezing through really tight spaces.
It's not about having all 4 at the same time for 4 sorcery points (at level 14, 4 points isnt a lot).
Its about having 4 GREAT features rolled into one. Even having one of these 4 would be nifty so I dont think level 1 armor is a big deal nor even understand why other people think so
The AC isn't a big deal it just seems lazy and doesn't feel what the subclass should be. (IMO)
I don't understand why everyone is complaining about the level 1 armor simply because draco has it too.. Why is no one complaining that draco & divine both give wings (don't say 'well not a lot of people get that high so it doesn't matter')
additionally, why is no one complaining about Aberrant's 14 feature instead. for 1 sorcery point each it gives flying (again, just like draco & divine) AND swimming & breathing AND semi truesight AND squeezing & grapple/escape advantage (or don't complain, its super cool)
Winged flight is an integral and iconic part of both being a dragon and being a jumped-up cleric that wants arcane battle magic and cool metamagic options without having to pay for it angelic creature. It makes thematic sense for both of those subclasses to offer flight, just like the Storm Sorcerer gets flight. If, regrettably, at a much later level. It also makes sense for a draconic being to be physically tougher and sturdier than a typical squishy mortal, as dragons are huge and nigh-invulnerable beings of awesome physical might.
The Abberant Mind is an Aberrant Mind. It's a psionic class with heavily expanded spellcasting and a lot of reality-twisting psychical/Cosmic Horror features. Giving it free dragon armor on top of all those psychic/mental features feels out of place, and like the Aberrant is just taking a cheap jab at dragon sorcerers. Yes, one can make it work, but it seems an ill-fitting aspect of the class. At least to some. That and dragon armor is one of the big(*) reasons to take draconic sorcerer in the first place; bolting dragon armor on top of a class that is otherwise almost strictly better than the draconic sorcerer just feels bad.
You get ten free spells you can cast using sorcery instead of spell slots, and many of them are super potent. Take your Mage Armor medicine and like it, especially since an "invisible psionic barrier" is pretty much a RAW description for Mage Armor.
I don't understand why everyone is complaining about the level 1 armor simply because draco has it too.. Why is no one complaining that draco & divine both give wings (don't say 'well not a lot of people get that high so it doesn't matter')
additionally, why is no one complaining about Aberrant's 14 feature instead. for 1 sorcery point each it gives flying (again, just like draco & divine) AND swimming & breathing AND semi truesight AND squeezing & grapple/escape advantage (or don't complain, its super cool)
Winged flight is an integral and iconic part of both being a dragon and being a jumped-up cleric that wants arcane battle magic and cool metamagic options without having to pay for it angelic creature. It makes thematic sense for both of those subclasses to offer flight, just like the Storm Sorcerer gets flight. If, regrettably, at a much later level. It also makes sense for a draconic being to be physically tougher and sturdier than a typical squishy mortal, as dragons are huge and nigh-invulnerable beings of awesome physical might.
The Abberant Mind is an Aberrant Mind. It's a psionic class with heavily expanded spellcasting and a lot of reality-twisting psychical/Cosmic Horror features. Giving it free dragon armor on top of all those psychic/mental features feels out of place, and like the Aberrant is just taking a cheap jab at dragon sorcerers. Yes, one can make it work, but it seems an ill-fitting aspect of the class. At least to some. That and dragon armor is one of the big(*) reasons to take draconic sorcerer in the first place; bolting dragon armor on top of a class that is otherwise almost strictly better than the draconic sorcerer just feels bad.
You get ten free spells you can cast using sorcery instead of spell slots, and many of them are super potent. Take your Mage Armor medicine and like it, especially since an "invisible psionic barrier" is pretty much a RAW description for Mage Armor.
Agree with you that giving the dragon scales benefit for a Psionic class feels strange. Dragon Scales is a natural benefit of the dragon blood in you and as such makes sense as a passive ability. If they wanted to do something where the Psionic can protect itself I would have preferred something that required a more active role on the PC. Maybe they can cast the Shield spell without knowing it for 1 Sorcery point or impose disadvantage on an attack roll with 1 Sorcery point. Active action and cost not just permanent passive benefit.
The Abberant Mind is just yet another Super Smash Bros costume color for Sorcerer. Psionic Sorcery is something that should be part of the core Sorcerer class progression. Everything else is just 'meh'.
Lurker in the Deep... I don't really have much to say except it's just a GOOlock with Spiritual Weapon that has Reach as a class feature.
There's some neat possibilities, yet I'm really tired of seeing "new" subclasses that are just reskins of what already exists, or ones that are absurdly more powerful than all existing relevant subclasses.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I don't see how so many people can compare the Deep Lurker to a GOOlock. This probably stems more from the average person's expectation of Great Old One = Cthulhu = Tentacles than anything else.
GOOlock is all about the mind. Mind reading, inserting fear into people, telepathy, Mind control. The only thing the GOOlock has to do with tentacles or Kraken is access to the spell "Evard's Black Tentacles". That's it.
The Deep Lurker on the other hand is about the deep ocean. Talking to fish and "Commune with Nature" is the closest it comes to any form of telepathy. Every other mechanic is very much anchored in the material realm with a spell list and mechanics which reflect 'the brute power of a storm'. It might be stronger than other Patrons, but it is nowhere near "GOOlock but different". If anything it's a Tempest Cleric as a -lock.
Addendum: Maybe add 'Shape Water' as a cantrip somewhere? Would be a bit much right now but if something drops form the current features, 'Shape Water' would be nice to have without investing in Tome Pact.
This is the class I have dreamed of since I first flipped thru the Player’s Handbook: a creepy mind mage free of the limiting spell slots of the GOOLock. If has taken everything that piqued my interest in that subclass and rolled it up for a character that doesn’t need spell books or deals from a being they do not fully understand. The bonus spell list is something I feel that should have been used on all of the Sorcerer classes to add to the flavor of each of them without having to use up your number of known spells. The only regret I would have is losing access to that Feeblemind spell (nothing says mind mage like frying someone else’s brain)
All that being said, it does feel over powered when compared to the other Sorcerer classes. If I had to trim it down, I would cut the Warped Being (Mage Armor would cover it), and adjust Revelation in Flesh to only allow one option to be used at a time. Even with those changes, I would still be all over it.
Disadvantage, mathed out, is generally held to be equivalent to -5 to a roll
Actually, the math puts it at about -3.33 per roll.
When you run a comparison of a normal roll and an advantage/disadvantage roll about 100,000 times, it comes out to an average difference of about +/- 3.33.
When you run the comparison of a normal roll and elven accuracy the same number of times, it comes out to an average difference of about +5.
This means the general formula is:
Advantage: (# of dice) / (# of dice + 1) * 20 - 10
Disadvantage: 10 - (# of dice) / (# of dice + 1) * 20
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How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
Disadvantage, mathed out, is generally held to be equivalent to -5 to a roll
Actually, the math puts it at about -3.33 per roll.
When you run a comparison of a normal roll and an advantage/disadvantage roll about 100,000 times, it comes out to an average difference of about +/- 3.33.
When you run the comparison of a normal roll and elven accuracy the same number of times, it comes out to an average difference of about +5.
This means the general formula is:
Advantage: (# of dice) / (# of dice + 1) * 20 - 10
Disadvantage: 10 - (# of dice) / (# of dice + 1) * 20
Yeah, I've always hated that +/-5 misconception ever since I heard it. Thanks for the equations.
Effectively, advantage is not equal to a flat bonus.
Let's look at the extremes - you have a DC of 20 you're trying to hit?
Rolling a single d20, you'll succeed 5% of the time Rolling d20 with advantage, you'll succeed approx 10% of the time* This means that having advantage on the roll is only equivalent to a +1 bonus against the hardest achievable DC on the d20 roll
What about trying to hit a DC of 6?
Rolling a single d20, you'll succeed 75% of the time Rolling d20 with advantage, you'll succeed approx 94% of the time** This means that having advantage on that roll is roughly equivalent to +20%, which is a flat +4 bonus.
The same is true for disadvantage - it's equivalent to around -5 penalty when the target is middle of the range, tailing off as the DC becomes more extreme one way or the other.
* Maths nerds (like me) - he actual chance is 9.75%, as we calculate this chance as 1 - (19/20)^2 ** It's actually 93.75%, calculated as 1 - (5/20)^2
I actually calculated by simply averaging the difference between an advantage roll and a normal roll over 100,000 times. And it came out to an average diffence of 3.33.
Here are the results of my tests, each with 100,000 iterations. Advantage, then disadvantage, then elven accuracy:
So, even if it's not always a flat bonus, the average difference when averaged over 100,000 rolls is still 3.33.
And if we factor in hitting target DCs, the average effective bonus is 3.33:
Ah, gotcha, considering across all target DCs, though comparing something like advantage (a bonus that changes with target difficulty) with a flat bonus kinda needs to talk about DC rather than an analogy across all DCs.
Lurker in the Deep... I don't really have much to say except it's just a GOOlock with Spiritual Weapon that has Reach as a class feature.
There's some neat possibilities, yet I'm really tired of seeing "new" subclasses that are just reskins of what already exists, or ones that are absurdly more powerful than all existing relevant subclasses.
Yeah, that was my impression. I had no trouble making a GOOlock work for a Aboleth Patron, I can't see it being any harder for a Kraken or whatever other powerful deep boi.
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I like the added spells on aberrant but there is no way that is surviving as is. Every other origin gets (at best) a spell (ds) or 2 (shadow, using s. points). It really puts it way ahead of the others (that frankly, should get bonus spells per origin, but that's been beat to death).
Don't know why they are even there I am so confident they'll be removed.
For those who haven't realized lurker warlock is an attempt to officially publish the Kraken patron that Mearls (or Crawford?) Made as an example of a homebrew subclass.
Ironically enough, I'm starting a campaign within the next few weeks and a player asked to use it, I actually added it onto dndb and then this pops up. D'oh. The biggest difference is that the tentacle attacks 1d8 with a BA in this one yet the tentacle actually restraints as a full action (I think I prefer the restrain even as an action for more crowd control).
They add swimming at lv6 instead of lv10. Kraken had 'inky escape' for lv6. Cast darkness as a reaction to which you can see through'
Lightning immunity was given AND any lightning attacks reduced to 0 convert to hp (too strong at lv 10 so gave resistance & made it improve to imm/heal at lv14).
In regards to the sorcerer, I love it. I was always meh with the sorcerer. A warlock main through and through with sorcerer subs interesting but doesnt grab me as much as this one.
Also I dont see the issue with the perma-armor just cuz draconic has it.. draconic & divine both get wings. No one is complaining about that
-Brainstorm? Aberrant lvl 1 AC buff replacements:
1. spend 2 sorcery points to gain 1d6 bonus on intelligence saves.
2. Expertise in Intelligence saving throws?? that's all right now.
Both Subclasses have been added to DnDBeyond, Happy Character Building!
I don't understand why everyone is complaining about the level 1 armor simply because draco has it too.. Why is no one complaining that draco & divine both give wings (don't say 'well not a lot of people get that high so it doesn't matter')
additionally, why is no one complaining about Aberrant's 14 feature instead. for 1 sorcery point each it gives flying (again, just like draco & divine) AND swimming & breathing AND semi truesight AND squeezing & grapple/escape advantage (or don't complain, its super cool)
Being physically tougher doesn't feel like what the class should be about IMPO, 14th isn't that strong, getting all of them would be a waste of 4 sorcery points, who needs to be able to fly and swim within the same minute? The strongest parts are definitely the de facto blindsight and squeezing through really tight spaces.
How about the sorcerer getting grabbed by a kraken tentacle and pulled into black water? Now he needs all of it: Escaping grapples, blindsight, swimming, and flying (getting out of the water.)
It's not about having all 4 at the same time for 4 sorcery points (at level 14, 4 points isnt a lot).
Its about having 4 GREAT features rolled into one. Even having one of these 4 would be nifty so I dont think level 1 armor is a big deal nor even understand why other people think so
The AC isn't a big deal it just seems lazy and doesn't feel what the subclass should be. (IMO)
Winged flight is an integral and iconic part of both being a dragon and being a
jumped-up cleric that wants arcane battle magic and cool metamagic options without having to pay for itangelic creature. It makes thematic sense for both of those subclasses to offer flight, just like the Storm Sorcerer gets flight. If, regrettably, at a much later level. It also makes sense for a draconic being to be physically tougher and sturdier than a typical squishy mortal, as dragons are huge and nigh-invulnerable beings of awesome physical might.The Abberant Mind is an Aberrant Mind. It's a psionic class with heavily expanded spellcasting and a lot of reality-twisting psychical/Cosmic Horror features. Giving it free dragon armor on top of all those psychic/mental features feels out of place, and like the Aberrant is just taking a cheap jab at dragon sorcerers. Yes, one can make it work, but it seems an ill-fitting aspect of the class. At least to some. That and dragon armor is one of the big(*) reasons to take draconic sorcerer in the first place; bolting dragon armor on top of a class that is otherwise almost strictly better than the draconic sorcerer just feels bad.
You get ten free spells you can cast using sorcery instead of spell slots, and many of them are super potent. Take your Mage Armor medicine and like it, especially since an "invisible psionic barrier" is pretty much a RAW description for Mage Armor.
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Agree with you that giving the dragon scales benefit for a Psionic class feels strange. Dragon Scales is a natural benefit of the dragon blood in you and as such makes sense as a passive ability. If they wanted to do something where the Psionic can protect itself I would have preferred something that required a more active role on the PC. Maybe they can cast the Shield spell without knowing it for 1 Sorcery point or impose disadvantage on an attack roll with 1 Sorcery point. Active action and cost not just permanent passive benefit.
The Abberant Mind is just yet another Super Smash Bros costume color for Sorcerer. Psionic Sorcery is something that should be part of the core Sorcerer class progression. Everything else is just 'meh'.
Lurker in the Deep... I don't really have much to say except it's just a GOOlock with Spiritual Weapon that has Reach as a class feature.
There's some neat possibilities, yet I'm really tired of seeing "new" subclasses that are just reskins of what already exists, or ones that are absurdly more powerful than all existing relevant subclasses.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I don't see how so many people can compare the Deep Lurker to a GOOlock.
This probably stems more from the average person's expectation of Great Old One = Cthulhu = Tentacles than anything else.
GOOlock is all about the mind. Mind reading, inserting fear into people, telepathy, Mind control.
The only thing the GOOlock has to do with tentacles or Kraken is access to the spell "Evard's Black Tentacles". That's it.
The Deep Lurker on the other hand is about the deep ocean. Talking to fish and "Commune with Nature" is the closest it comes to any form of telepathy. Every other mechanic is very much anchored in the material realm with a spell list and mechanics which reflect 'the brute power of a storm'.
It might be stronger than other Patrons, but it is nowhere near "GOOlock but different". If anything it's a Tempest Cleric as a -lock.
Addendum:
Maybe add 'Shape Water' as a cantrip somewhere? Would be a bit much right now but if something drops form the current features, 'Shape Water' would be nice to have without investing in Tome Pact.
Abberant Mind:
This is the class I have dreamed of since I first flipped thru the Player’s Handbook: a creepy mind mage free of the limiting spell slots of the GOOLock. If has taken everything that piqued my interest in that subclass and rolled it up for a character that doesn’t need spell books or deals from a being they do not fully understand. The bonus spell list is something I feel that should have been used on all of the Sorcerer classes to add to the flavor of each of them without having to use up your number of known spells. The only regret I would have is losing access to that Feeblemind spell (nothing says mind mage like frying someone else’s brain)
All that being said, it does feel over powered when compared to the other Sorcerer classes. If I had to trim it down, I would cut the Warped Being (Mage Armor would cover it), and adjust Revelation in Flesh to only allow one option to be used at a time. Even with those changes, I would still be all over it.
Actually, the math puts it at about -3.33 per roll.
When you run a comparison of a normal roll and an advantage/disadvantage roll about 100,000 times, it comes out to an average difference of about +/- 3.33.
When you run the comparison of a normal roll and elven accuracy the same number of times, it comes out to an average difference of about +5.
This means the general formula is:
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Yeah, I've always hated that +/-5 misconception ever since I heard it. Thanks for the equations.
If the target DC of a roll on a d20 is 11, then d20 with advantage will hit that 75% of the time.
Statistically this means that advantage is equivalent to a +5 bonus, when trying to hit that DC 11.
There's a pretty good article here that explains it with charts:
https://critical-hits.com/blog/2012/06/11/dd-advantage-vs-flat-bonuses/
Effectively, advantage is not equal to a flat bonus.
Let's look at the extremes - you have a DC of 20 you're trying to hit?
Rolling a single d20, you'll succeed 5% of the time
Rolling d20 with advantage, you'll succeed approx 10% of the time*
This means that having advantage on the roll is only equivalent to a +1 bonus against the hardest achievable DC on the d20 roll
What about trying to hit a DC of 6?
Rolling a single d20, you'll succeed 75% of the time
Rolling d20 with advantage, you'll succeed approx 94% of the time**
This means that having advantage on that roll is roughly equivalent to +20%, which is a flat +4 bonus.
The same is true for disadvantage - it's equivalent to around -5 penalty when the target is middle of the range, tailing off as the DC becomes more extreme one way or the other.
* Maths nerds (like me) - he actual chance is 9.75%, as we calculate this chance as 1 - (19/20)^2
** It's actually 93.75%, calculated as 1 - (5/20)^2
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"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
So, even if it's not always a flat bonus, the average difference when averaged over 100,000 rolls is still 3.33.
And if we factor in hitting target DCs, the average effective bonus is 3.33:
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Ah, gotcha, considering across all target DCs, though comparing something like advantage (a bonus that changes with target difficulty) with a flat bonus kinda needs to talk about DC rather than an analogy across all DCs.
Anyways, we're horribly derailing this thread.
*goes back to stat nerd corner*
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"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
Yeah, that was my impression. I had no trouble making a GOOlock work for a Aboleth Patron, I can't see it being any harder for a Kraken or whatever other powerful deep boi.