I dislike the idea of making them a combo of warlock and sorcerer, as you seem to be proposing. I feel a psion should be working from slots that are like a wizard, not a warlock, with scaling as from different levels, focused on long rests. I also feel that they should be able to use these slots to do things other than spells, choosing disciplines instead of spells. These disciplines might grant spells known for the level, or they might also give different abilities that are like spells but different, scaling for the slot expended. Some of these disciplines would be general and some would be subclass specific. 

Its certainly the most practical and easiest to implement in such way to match the design philosophy of 5e, streamlined play.  Adding an entire new casting system for one class is a non starter its just not going to happen.  If the psion is going to happen it needs to be designed to match up to a full casting class already present in 5e.  Unnecessary rules and complex rules make the game inaccessible which to WOTC means lacking in sales.  They will not print another class whose abilities are similar to what already exists in the game.  

Psionics is completely broken in 3.5 so I really don't want to see that happen again in 5e.  I am just unsure of how you can make another full casting class with its own unique niche that doesn't encroach on what is already present in the game currently.

Quote from Bunsenburner03 >>

I dislike the idea of making them a combo of warlock and sorcerer, as you seem to be proposing. I feel a psion should be working from slots that are like a wizard, not a warlock, with scaling as from different levels, focused on long rests. I also feel that they should be able to use these slots to do things other than spells, choosing disciplines instead of spells. These disciplines might grant spells known for the level, or they might also give different abilities that are like spells but different, scaling for the slot expended. Some of these disciplines would be general and some would be subclass specific. 

 That would certainly be cool but that seems to be the direction the sorcerer is heading with their sorcery points based on the most recent subclasses they have released.

I mean this would be slot based, not point based. Also what subclass are you referring to?

Quote from Bunsenburner03 >>

I dislike the idea of making them a combo of warlock and sorcerer, as you seem to be proposing. I feel a psion should be working from slots that are like a wizard, not a warlock, with scaling as from different levels, focused on long rests. I also feel that they should be able to use these slots to do things other than spells, choosing disciplines instead of spells. These disciplines might grant spells known for the level, or they might also give different abilities that are like spells but different, scaling for the slot expended. Some of these disciplines would be general and some would be subclass specific. 

 We disagree, that’s okay. The exact mechanic you like (leveled slots) is exactly the thing I would change first. Leveled Slots is my entire problem with the entire gorram thing. That’s the thing I want to get away from. I don’t think any of the Classes should use them. That entire mechanic is contrived and inorganic.

Quote from Bunsenburner03 >>

Also Psion as a sorcerer subclass is the second most boring way of handling a psion i could think (first being a wizard subclass). Wizards had metamagic in 3.5, does not mean that psion did not have the mechanic. Empowering spells and metamagic are two different things, metamagic is utility customization like extended range, subtle casting, and careful spell, empowering is stuff like adding additional effects, making it do more, and changing it in other ways.

 Consider that when the Sorcerer was first introduced to D&D back in the 3.0PHB, it used Spell Points instead of Slots. That combined with Metamagic and upcasting basically made them roughly comparable to the 2e Psionicist I grew up playing. 

I watched Jeremy Crawford on Youtube and I really get where he is coming from when he says you don't create a new ruleset for 1 class the classes in that UA are good and I like them. WotC should not make the game more difficult by introducing new rules for a new look at classes. Keeping it simple has worked great for 5th edition look how popular the game is today. Back in the day the biggest issue to getting new players was the massive amount of books for the rules of the game. Keeping it simple brings more players to the table for the 1st time, which is important for the game we all enjoy. Does this mean something not being perfect yep sure it does but in the end that isn't what matters, what matters is are folks having fun playing the game with others. I like the Sorcerer that was released not long ago, and I also like this new Wizard I also really wanna play that Rogue the Fighter isn't me but could be fun. Just remember that WotC needs to keep the game simple and the classes balanced, we as Players and DM's use our Imagination to fill in the gaps that help make this edition of the game the best it can be and remember have fun everyone.

Quote from 1stsonofkrynn >>

Its certainly the most practical and easiest to implement in such way to match the design philosophy of 5e, streamlined play.  Adding an entire new casting system for one class is a non starter its just not going to happen.  If the psion is going to happen it needs to be designed to match up to a full casting class already present in 5e.  Unnecessary rules and complex rules make the game inaccessible which to WOTC means lacking in sales.  They will not print another class whose abilities are similar to what already exists in the game.  

Psionics is completely broken in 3.5 so I really don't want to see that happen again in 5e.  I am just unsure of how you can make another full casting class with its own unique niche that doesn't encroach on what is already present in the game currently.

 You are 100% correct, which is why a unique Psion will never appear in 5e. 

That’s actually my only real complaint about 5e, it’s too streamlined. I just wish there were a couple of different options out there for players like me who like things just a tad “crunchier” once in a while.

Sorcerer did not have metamagic in 3e, wizard did. Metamagic was originally a wizard ability.

Quote from Bunsenburner03 >>

I mean this would be slot based, not point based. Also what subclass are you referring to?

 Shadow magic as well as the newest one in UA aberrant.  

I do not want psionics to be "spells but we reprint them", but i do want them to feel different than just being a wizard or sorcerer with some extra metamagic. Also the whole idea psion was originally based to revolve around leveled spell slots.

Quote from Bunsenburner03 >>

Sorcerer did not have metamagic in 3e, wizard did. Metamagic was originally a wizard ability.

No it wasn’t. All casters had access to metamagic feats in 3e.

I would hesistate to call shadow sorc "new". Also, again, that is point based, not slot based. It is an additional feature for a subclass, I am talking about a class designed around the idea of slot scaling mechanics.

wizards got bonus metamagic feats in 3e.  it was open to any spellcasting class but the wizard was able to gain access to more of them.

Maybe I am thinking of 3.5, but i remember metamagic being a primarily wizard ability, with some feats that other classes could also experience revolving around it, like the battlemasters martial maneuvers.

Bunsenburner,

I realize that Metamagic was more of a Wiz thing in 3e, that’s why I made a point of mentioning the combination of 3e Sorcerer+3eMetamagic. 

Also, I am not married to the idea that a Psion “be like it was”. You could basically take a 5e Sorcerer, use the optional rules for Spell Points from the DMG, give them the spell list from the new UA, and write 5 new Subclasses (one for each of the 5 2e Disciplines besides Metapsionics) and you would basically have a near equivalent for the 2e Psionicist. That would make it “like it was”. 

I suggest getting away from Spell/Slot Levels not because that’s how the Psionicist used to be, but instead as a way to give us something different.

I understand, but I would rather have something that does not feel like a combination of two classes. And this is not the psionicist i am talking about, this is the psion.

I want psion to not feel like i could just reflavor a sorc, wizard, or warlock, I want to have it feel like I am playing something new. I do not mean that I want a 30 page chapter on psionics and how it works instead of spellcasting, but I would like something other than recycled  features from other classes.

Quote from IamSposta >>

Quote from Cyb3rM1nd >>

Quote from IamSposta >>

Psionics should not use specific Spells of various levels. If a Psion is telekinetic, the character should not have to wait until they are 9th level so they can cast the 5th level Spell Telekinesis. They should simply have a power similar to that Spell that starts out much weaker when the character is level 1, but then ramps up as they gain more power. Kind of like how Cantrips already scale with Character Level. Or how a Warlock’s leveled spells automatically scale. If every Psionic power worked on that principle combined with the Concentration mechanic then I would be happy. As a way to balance things they wouldn’t need a great variety of powers then. 

 
You need to have some progression so, since they start with an invisible mage hand that works like a weak telekinesis and then eventually get the much more powerful Telekinesis spell, plus various spells inbetween that are telekinetic in nature like Catapult - the spells do offer a nice way of offering progression. Likewise from the telepathic side chars start with telepathy, move to other divinitation spells like detect thoughts, telepathic bond and eventually Telepathy. 

Spells actually does the job very nicely from 1 to 20. So I'm not sure I understand entirely your point.

 Spells merely mimic a more organic progression. For a character that has to learn those spells like a Wizard, that approach makes sense. After Catapult a spell caster has to wait until level 9 to gain access to either Bigby’s Hand or Telekinesis. What I propose would be mashing those three spells together into one power that would be balanced and available to a level one character, but scale up to still be useful to a level 18+ character. 

Jean Grey never had to learn a spell, she has innate powers that progressed naturally. Making Jean Grey’s psychic powers work the same way as Dr. Strange’s Spells feels both cheap and lazy.

 
This isn't X-Men, which is a comic book with the ability to deal with any type of progression and characters able to move planets with their mind. 

And the spells and magic in D&D 5th do not work the same way as spells and magic in Marvel comics. So, not a very useful example.

Why do players have to wait for 9th level after Catapult for telekinetically themed spells after 1st level?

What about 2nd level and Levitate, or Maximilian’s Earthen Grasp? Why not make Hold Person be a Strength save, and evocation, to flavour it as "force" holding them in place?

3rd level has Fly or Erupting Earth, what about those? Leomund's Tiny Hut is like telekinetic force made solid (basically what Force stuff is), so that could be useful too. Again there's reflavouring like making Slow a strength save as if it is telekinetic force pushing down on them from all sides slowing them down?

4th level: Control Water, Fabricate (thing move from the environment into forming the object), Resilient Sphere is like a bubble of telekinetic force, Stone shape is like telekinetically moving the molecules and engraving things. 

5th level has Bigby's Hand and Telekinesis. It also has Animate Objects, Control Winds, Hold Monster (reflavoring like with Hold Person), and you can flavour Skill Empowerment being a telekinetic boost.

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This isn't even factoring any new spells given by the UA which I have not looked at yet. 

Spells are not ideal, but they are an easy way to provide a suitable, balanced progression. They tried making own systems for progression with 4th Ed Psion and the UA Mystic classes and the type of progression offered just ended up being out of balance with everything else. 

The only real part of spells that makes it unsuitable are V and M components, the easy solution being just give them the option to only need S components (and this in turn can just be hand gestures like pointing at the thing you're floating). Or just do what the Wizards subclass did: give the option to remove all components entirely. 

I'm also going to remind you this thread is not for discussing a new Psion class but rather for the discussion of the new released UA subclasses. 

As for the subclasses go, the spells offer a decent way for them to progress their psychic talents. Not perfect, but it's simple, beneficial and reasonably balanced in that regard (although the immunity to counterspell is a little worrisome, but hey it won't be just falling down to counterspell battles, so that's something). 

Quote from Bunsenburner03 >>

I understand, but I would rather have something that does not feel like a combination of two classes. And this is not the psionicist i am talking about, this is the psion.

I want psion to not feel like i could just reflavor a sorc, wizard, or warlock, I want to have it feel like I am playing something new. I do not mean that I want a 30 page chapter on psionics and how it works instead of spellcasting, but I would like something other than recycled  features from other classes.

 I agree, I was just trying my best to fit it into the already established framework of 5e.

Cyb3rM1nd, 

You make valid points, me mentioning the jump from Catapult to Bigby’s/Telekinesis was specifically in the “move stuff with mind“ category. Half of the spells you mentioned represent different aspects of Psychokinesis and the other half add up to how many spells?!? A ”Telekinetic Power” would sort of roll all of those into one.