No, levitate can not be “Tele”kinesics. It IS Psychokineses, but it is not “remote”
Per the spell description: "One creature or loose object of your choice that you can see within range rises vertically..."
But since Psionics are not “Spells” that spell description is totally and completely irrelevant.
Cyb3rM1nd, whom you were responding to when you originally made the claim that you can't levitate something from afar, was explicitly talking about the Levitate spell. Come on, buddy.
I understand, but I would rather have something that does not feel like a combination of two classes. And this is not the psionicist i am talking about, this is the psion.
I want psion to not feel like i could just reflavor a sorc, wizard, or warlock, I want to have it feel like I am playing something new. I do not mean that I want a 30 page chapter on psionics and how it works instead of spellcasting, but I would like something other than recycled features from other classes.
A lot of the classes are half way points between two other classes. You could argue that the Paladin is halfway between Clerics and Fighters, and Ranger is halfway between Fighters and Druids, and Artificers are halfway between Fighters and Wizards. Lots of subclasses have themes of other classes as well, Way of the Four Elements Monk and the Wizard, Eldritch Knight and Arcane Tricksters and Wizards, Colleges of Valor and Swords and the Battlemaster Fighter. A lot of class and subclass features are "shared" between classes, and I would like 5e to continue the theme. I think it would be a good idea to have the Psion to work similar to Warlocks and Sorcerers. I would like Psi Points instead of Spellcasting, a way to manipulate certain psionic abilities more than others like Metamagic or Eldritch Invocations, and psionic talents like cantrips.
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Sure, you want your character to be based on telekinesis, but have to wait until level 9 in order to actually be telekinetic. Sure, you can give them an invisible mage hand, but that won't let you lift people into the air like Eleven from Stranger Things.
2nd level Levitation spell: "Am I a joke to you?" 3rd level Fly spell: "What about me, am I also a joke?"
There are multiple telekinesis based spells that are lower level.
Telekinesis: moving objects remotely. Psychokinesis: moving objects by using only the mind.
Telekinesis is a type of Psychokinesis.
Yes, but not all Psychokinesis is Telekinesis. Levitation and Flying may in fact be Psychokinetic powers, but they are not Telekinetic since “Tele” means remotely while the character’s own body is as far from “remote” as can be.
All squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares.
Thank you, I agree, if they have to make Psionics being magic for balancing purposes I would be fine with it, it just doesn't make sense to me.
Telekinesis is making someone float up in the air for a little bit, it isn't being able to manipulate them intricately, not the ability to blast someone into a wall or off a cliff, they are very different abilities. Same with fly, they have to be willing, you don't choose where they go, the person you cast it on does. I mean essentially hold person in the air, or something of that nature, you grab them in the air, you manipulate them however you want, crush them into the ceiling, blast them into walls, so on. I don't want levitate, I've never found that spell too useful anyway, but I want picking up a rock that weighs around 50 pounds, and throwing it on someone, or blasting down a door with it.
Thank you, I agree, if they have to make Psionics being magic for balancing purposes I would be fine with it, it just doesn't make sense to me.
Telekinesis is making someone float up in the air for a little bit, it isn't being able to manipulate them intricately, not the ability to blast someone into a wall or off a cliff, they are very different abilities. Same with fly, they have to be willing, you don't choose where they go, the person you cast it on does. I mean essentially hold person in the air, or something of that nature, you grab them in the air, you manipulate them however you want, crush them into the ceiling, blast them into walls, so on. I don't want levitate, I've never found that spell too useful anyway, but I want picking up a rock that weighs around 50 pounds, and throwing it on someone, or blasting down a door with it.
Just to be clear, do you mean Telekinesis orTelekinesis? I want to make sure I don’t misunderstand again like SagaTympana pointed out.
My whole point is, I want to play a Character who can do this without having to learn how to “Cast” Bigby’s Hand just like every other Class in the game. That’s what Psionics should be to me. The abilities to do cool ass shit without writing it down in a book first. Cool @$$ stuff, no “Spells”.
Thank you, I agree, if they have to make Psionics being magic for balancing purposes I would be fine with it, it just doesn't make sense to me.
Telekinesis is making someone float up in the air for a little bit, it isn't being able to manipulate them intricately, not the ability to blast someone into a wall or off a cliff, they are very different abilities. Same with fly, they have to be willing, you don't choose where they go, the person you cast it on does. I mean essentially hold person in the air, or something of that nature, you grab them in the air, you manipulate them however you want, crush them into the ceiling, blast them into walls, so on. I don't want levitate, I've never found that spell too useful anyway, but I want picking up a rock that weighs around 50 pounds, and throwing it on someone, or blasting down a door with it.
Just to be clear, do you mean Telekinesis orTelekinesis? I want to make sure I don’t misunderstand again like SagaTympana pointed out.
I meant Telekinesis, the ability, not the spell, moving things with your mind.
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No, I do want the Telekinesis subclass to have those abilities in my dream Psionics class. I had been responding to a previous argument that they could just make the Psion a spellcaster class with the levitate spell as a telekinesis option. I don't want this, I want a different class mechanic that grants the ability to do any combination of the listed abilities above, instead of having to do spells for those abilities, some sort of discipline or psionic talent like that.
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Again, this is not the thread for discussing your dream Psionic class.
This is the thread for discussing the new UA subclasses. Which, being subclasses, cannot have whole completely new mechanics, they need to follow the mechanics they are being added to.
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Again, this is not the thread for discussing your dream Psionic class.
This is the thread for discussing the new UA subclasses. Which, being subclasses, cannot have whole completely new mechanics, they need to follow the mechanics they are being added to.
Sorry if it got slightly off topic, but I don't think that it is unwarranted on a forum about current 5e Psionic options to discuss what we'd rather have instead. It doesn't really matter if we're off topic though, because we've all made our positions on this UA clear, and now we've moved on to other things.
Us talking about this doesn't prevent others from discussing the UA, I liked the UA, didn't like their video on DnDBeyond about this UA basically confirming that this replaces the Mystic for now.
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Again, this is not the thread for discussing your dream Psionic class.
This is the thread for discussing the new UA subclasses. Which, being subclasses, cannot have whole completely new mechanics, they need to follow the mechanics they are being added to.
Yes, we were discussing the psionic class that we would want in place of their current strategy of getting psionics into 5e, the making of these subclasses and spells and feats, I have already remarked on those abilities and features, I was saying that I would rather have these features in an alternate class called the Psion or Mystic, and this relates back to the original point of mine that is that the current spellcasting system that most 5e classes have should not be the ones used in the future if the do make a Psion class, which these spells show they are currently leaning towards making psionics be mainly spell based.
If you have a problem with anything I said, confront my ideas, but don't you dare try to shut down my creativity by trying to make it seem like my points shouldn't even exist on this forum.
Site rules require posts to be kept to the topic of the thread they are in. It is better for me to remind you than a moderator sanctioning you.
You are perfectly free to discuss a Psionic class as much as you want: in a new thread in the appropriate forum. This thread is specifically for the US subclasses. It is not a thread about a Psion or Mystic class. There is a homebrew forum if you want to make a thread about how you would make a Psionic class, and there are other threads about the UA Mystic.
I came to this thread to read and discuss these subclasses - as per the thread's purpose, not your dream psion class, so please discuss that elsewhere as it's derailing the thread.
--
Anyway, I think the discussion has been focusing too heavily on the Wizard. I'm finding the Soulknife to be more alluring, personally, with the Psylocke style it grants and permanent invisibility. The Soul Rend looks promising but on realising a dual-wielder has better chance to just land sneak attacks, but it does present options if you manage to stun your opponent as you spring out from invisibility, then get your sneak attack on next turn. A few levels of Sorc and a weapon-attack cantrip could net you both the same turn if you really want to go for that assassin-type, especially if employing poison as well. With the right build it could be nasty.
I do think the permanent-no-cost invisibility anywhere is stepping hard on the toes of Shadow Monk's Cloak of Shadows.
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Again, this is not the thread for discussing your dream Psionic class.
This is the thread for discussing the new UA subclasses. Which, being subclasses, cannot have whole completely new mechanics, they need to follow the mechanics they are being added to.
Yes, we were discussing the psionic class that we would want in place of their current strategy of getting psionics into 5e, the making of these subclasses and spells and feats, I have already remarked on those abilities and features, I was saying that I would rather have these features in an alternate class called the Psion or Mystic, and this relates back to the original point of mine that is that the current spellcasting system that most 5e classes have should not be the ones used in the future if the do make a Psion class, which these spells show they are currently leaning towards making psionics be mainly spell based.
If you have a problem with anything I said, confront my ideas, but don't you dare try to shut down my creativity by trying to make it seem like my points shouldn't even exist on this forum.
Site rules require posts to be kept to the topic of the thread they are in. It is better for me to remind you than a moderator sanctioning you.
You are perfectly free to discuss a Psionic class as much as you want: in a new thread in the appropriate forum. This thread is specifically for the US subclasses. It is not a thread about a Psion or Mystic class. There is a homebrew forum if you want to make a thread about how you would make a Psionic class, and there are other threads about the UA Mystic.
I came to this thread to read and discuss these subclasses - as per the thread's purpose, not your dream psion class, so please discuss that elsewhere as it's derailing the thread.
--
Anyway, I think the discussion has been focusing too heavily on the Wizard. I'm finding the Soulknife to be more alluring, personally, with the Psylocke style it grants and permanent invisibility. The Soul Rend looks promising but on realising a dual-wielder has better chance to just land sneak attacks, but it does present options if you manage to stun your opponent as you spring out from invisibility, then get your sneak attack on next turn. A few levels of Sorc and a weapon-attack cantrip could net you both the same turn if you really want to go for that assassin-type, especially if employing poison as well. With the right build it could be nasty.
I do think the permanent-no-cost invisibility anywhere is stepping hard on the toes of Shadow Monk's Cloak of Shadows.
I don't think that we were off topic that much, we were discussing a replacement for what this UA aims to do, also you were participating in the discussion as well.
Anyway, I don't like the Soulknife too much, it seems to close to the spell Shadowblade spell, but I would like to see it official just for someone who wants to play this type of rogue without multiclassing or being the arcane trickster. I think the Psionic Enhance ability is not great, the one that most people will choose is the Hit point maximum increase, maybe the telepathy if the character you're playing doesn't have great intelligence. I like the Terrifying Blade feature, it fits perfectly into the 9th level rogue subclass stereotype of useful but not too useful, and I'd love to see a multiclass between Soulknife and Oath of Conquest paladin, that would be an interesting mix of mechanics.
Now the fighter, mage hand is good, but if you want the Telekinetic feat this will be redundant and a bit underwhelming. Psionic Armament isn't good enough, a level 3 battle master can use a superiority dice to deal an extra 1d8 damage to a creature when they hit while simultaneously knocking them prone or pushing them, or doing whatever their maneuver does. The ability everyone will choose at 3rd level is the extra damage, and it is only on one attack each turn, and only 1d4. Sure, it's psychic damage, but that isn't a great excuse for this being bad. I think that they should either make it 1d6 at level 3 and 1d8 at level 10, or make it 1d4 on each attack, which might turn out to be overpowered. This is similar to the Path of the Zealot barbarian, the first attack they hit with on each of their turns deals an extra 1d6 radiant. I think that this needs to be better. Augmented Defense is okay, I wish that it was a bit better, but this paired with the Protection Fighting Style is actually pretty good. I like Strength of Mind, it is definitely a Darth Vader ability, like Jeremy Crawford said. I wish it recharged on a short rest, not long rest, to go along with all the other fighter abilities that do, like Second Wind, Action Surge, Superiority Dice, Arcane Archer abilities, and Samurai abilities. I like Telekinetic Bulwark, it feels a lot like a Paladin ability, which I think is strange. It is an interesting ability, but I'd like to see it be used an amount of times per long rest equal to your Intelligence modifier. Agonizing Strikes is amazing and I love it, it does 2d10 extra damage, which can be saved for critical hits, and knocks them prone, and gives them disadvantage on ability checks for a round. I love this ability, I can just imagine a powerful fighter with a maul hitting a creature, knocking them down, and picking them up and throwing them off a cliff, or something like that. Psychic Dreadnaught also feels a lot like a Paladin ability, though it is interesting that it triggers as a reaction. Overall, I like the class, but I am not sure if this concept wouldn't do better as a paladin subclass. They said that it is themed around Darth Vader abilities, I think that Darth Vader would fit more into the paladin category as well, and these abilities all feel like paladin abilities, the aura ability, the extra damage on a hit, the capstone ability that is very similar to the level 20 paladin abilities. Also, mage hand for a paladin would be interesting and cool.
Now, the Wizard. I've already expressed my concern about this subclass, experienced backlash for my opinion on what should happen instead, but these are my new thoughts. I like the psychic focus ability, I think it is good and this makes magic missile and jim's magic missile a lot better. All of the Psychic devotion abilities are good, I think that some of them could be better, the Mage Hand might be redundant if you take the Telekinetic Feat. Thought Form is interesting, I'd like to see it twirked a bit, maybe used less often, maybe turn you invisible as well, though that would be overpowered, I can't imagine what thought looks like. Mental Discipline and Empowered Psionics are both good boosts. Thought Travel is good, but I'd like a different ability, I'm not sure what, maybe a static boost to all saving throws against psionic spells?
I like all the spells, some are a bit powerful, Id Insinuation just looks Witch Bolt in the face and laughs. Ego Whip is just mean, Intellect Fortress is great, I like the new version of Mind Sliver.
This is just my second review of the UA, any thoughts?
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So for those of us who are old school veterans, I can honestly say that while some of these sub class ideas could be interesting in some circumstances, dark sun will not be dark sun without defiler style mages and psionics as a separate system from magic. Literally the theme and story of the setting depends on it. Dark Sun would be somehow less interesting, vanilla, tame, whatever without it. It was literally a system evolved outside of magic for a brutal world that magic destroyed. A big RP element is in fact the differences between magic and psionics in world devoid of almost everything else.
so for me the change just simply doesn’t do it.
I get that developing a whole new system could be tricky from a balance stand point, so I sympathize a little bit. However, dark sun is dnd purist. After forgotton realms, you have dark sun. Pure and simple in my book. Eberron while cool and entertaining is new age, post Gygax invention. Mechanistically it was developed to fit dnd, but it is not the original. Given this, if Wotc can justify infusing the game with their own class, why can’t they justify a true original part of dnd?
this is sort of like taking the original concept of George Lucas, letting Disney buy it, then muddling everything up for the sake giving it the Disney treatment. (No offense wotc, but it is basically the same idea, still love mtg)
So for those of us who are old school veterans, I can honestly say that while some of these sub class ideas could be interesting in some circumstances, dark sun will not be dark sun without defiler style mages and psionics as a separate system from magic. Literally the theme and story of the setting depends on it. Dark Sun would be somehow less interesting, vanilla, tame, whatever without it. It was literally a system evolved outside of magic for a brutal world that magic destroyed. A big RP element is in fact the differences between magic and psionics in world devoid of almost everything else.
so for me the change just simply doesn’t do it.
I get that developing a whole new system could be tricky from a balance stand point, so I sympathize a little bit. However, dark sun is dnd purist. After forgotton realms, you have dark sun. Pure and simple in my book. Eberron while cool and entertaining is new age, post Gygax invention. Mechanistically it was developed to fit dnd, but it is not the original. Given this, if Wotc can justify infusing the game with their own class, why can’t they justify a true original part of dnd?
this is sort of like taking the original concept of George Lucas, letting Disney buy it, then muddling everything up for the sake giving it the Disney treatment. (No offense wotc, but it is basically the same idea, still love mtg)
I agree, this is a reason why I think the UA doesn't do Psionics justice, we need a new system, as seen above.
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I think that lore and mechanics are equal, sure you need good lore to support a mechanic, but you need great mechanics to support good lore. This goes for Psionics.
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I think that lore and mechanics are equal, sure you need good lore to support a mechanic, but you need great mechanics to support good lore. This goes for Psionics.
I’d agree with that, I guess I just think these new changes are done for the sake of mechanics only and completely ignore the reason why psionics matter.
I think that lore and mechanics are equal, sure you need good lore to support a mechanic, but you need great mechanics to support good lore. This goes for Psionics.
I’d agree with that, I guess I just think these new changes are done for the sake of mechanics only and completely ignore the reason why psionics matter.
I agree, I dislike how this new UA is not making Psionics be a different system, and just shoving it into the Wizard, Jeremy Crawford basically confirmed that this is what we're getting on Psionics for a while.
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I think that lore and mechanics are equal, sure you need good lore to support a mechanic, but you need great mechanics to support good lore. This goes for Psionics.
I’d agree with that, I guess I just think these new changes are done for the sake of mechanics only and completely ignore the reason why psionics matter.
I agree, I dislike how this new UA is not making Psionics be a different system, and just shoving it into the Wizard, Jeremy Crawford basically confirmed that this is what we're getting on Psionics for a while.
Well that is disappointing. I hope they change their minds or don’t do dark sun at all cuz that would really really diminish the setting in my mind.
I think that lore and mechanics are equal, sure you need good lore to support a mechanic, but you need great mechanics to support good lore. This goes for Psionics.
I’d agree with that, I guess I just think these new changes are done for the sake of mechanics only and completely ignore the reason why psionics matter.
I agree, I dislike how this new UA is not making Psionics be a different system, and just shoving it into the Wizard, Jeremy Crawford basically confirmed that this is what we're getting on Psionics for a while.
Well that is disappointing. I hope they change their minds or don’t do dark sun at all cuz that would really really diminish the setting in my mind.
I’m gonna go against the grain here and say I’m stoked we’ve got SOME psionics finally, in any format, even if they are just as 50/50 flavour/mechanics. JC hasn’t said they’re *never* revisiting Mystic or Psionics. So I’m stoked we’ve got ANYTHING resembling it *for now*. I’ve been getting bored of the same 5 or so Int save spells to theme a mentalist, this is good news. At least to me. :)
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I disagree that we need for psionics to be a different system in the game for Dark Sun, when the setting itself already differentiated between divine and arcane magic.
You just need to make variant setting rules for arcane magic and make the defile subclasses.
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Ahah, I understand now. Point taken.
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A lot of the classes are half way points between two other classes. You could argue that the Paladin is halfway between Clerics and Fighters, and Ranger is halfway between Fighters and Druids, and Artificers are halfway between Fighters and Wizards. Lots of subclasses have themes of other classes as well, Way of the Four Elements Monk and the Wizard, Eldritch Knight and Arcane Tricksters and Wizards, Colleges of Valor and Swords and the Battlemaster Fighter. A lot of class and subclass features are "shared" between classes, and I would like 5e to continue the theme. I think it would be a good idea to have the Psion to work similar to Warlocks and Sorcerers. I would like Psi Points instead of Spellcasting, a way to manipulate certain psionic abilities more than others like Metamagic or Eldritch Invocations, and psionic talents like cantrips.
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Thank you, I agree, if they have to make Psionics being magic for balancing purposes I would be fine with it, it just doesn't make sense to me.
Telekinesis is making someone float up in the air for a little bit, it isn't being able to manipulate them intricately, not the ability to blast someone into a wall or off a cliff, they are very different abilities. Same with fly, they have to be willing, you don't choose where they go, the person you cast it on does. I mean essentially hold person in the air, or something of that nature, you grab them in the air, you manipulate them however you want, crush them into the ceiling, blast them into walls, so on. I don't want levitate, I've never found that spell too useful anyway, but I want picking up a rock that weighs around 50 pounds, and throwing it on someone, or blasting down a door with it.
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Just to be clear, do you mean Telekinesis orTelekinesis? I want to make sure I don’t misunderstand again like SagaTympana pointed out.
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My whole point is, I want to play a Character who can do this without having to learn how to “Cast” Bigby’s Hand just like every other Class in the game. That’s what Psionics should be to me. The abilities to do cool ass shit without writing it down in a book first. Cool @$$ stuff, no “Spells”.
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I meant Telekinesis, the ability, not the spell, moving things with your mind.
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Then why could Telekinesis not include all of them?
In my mind it should include all of them.
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No, I do want the Telekinesis subclass to have those abilities in my dream Psionics class. I had been responding to a previous argument that they could just make the Psion a spellcaster class with the levitate spell as a telekinesis option. I don't want this, I want a different class mechanic that grants the ability to do any combination of the listed abilities above, instead of having to do spells for those abilities, some sort of discipline or psionic talent like that.
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Again, this is not the thread for discussing your dream Psionic class.
This is the thread for discussing the new UA subclasses. Which, being subclasses, cannot have whole completely new mechanics, they need to follow the mechanics they are being added to.
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Sorry if it got slightly off topic, but I don't think that it is unwarranted on a forum about current 5e Psionic options to discuss what we'd rather have instead. It doesn't really matter if we're off topic though, because we've all made our positions on this UA clear, and now we've moved on to other things.
Us talking about this doesn't prevent others from discussing the UA, I liked the UA, didn't like their video on DnDBeyond about this UA basically confirming that this replaces the Mystic for now.
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Site rules require posts to be kept to the topic of the thread they are in. It is better for me to remind you than a moderator sanctioning you.
You are perfectly free to discuss a Psionic class as much as you want: in a new thread in the appropriate forum. This thread is specifically for the US subclasses. It is not a thread about a Psion or Mystic class. There is a homebrew forum if you want to make a thread about how you would make a Psionic class, and there are other threads about the UA Mystic.
I came to this thread to read and discuss these subclasses - as per the thread's purpose, not your dream psion class, so please discuss that elsewhere as it's derailing the thread.
--
Anyway, I think the discussion has been focusing too heavily on the Wizard. I'm finding the Soulknife to be more alluring, personally, with the Psylocke style it grants and permanent invisibility. The Soul Rend looks promising but on realising a dual-wielder has better chance to just land sneak attacks, but it does present options if you manage to stun your opponent as you spring out from invisibility, then get your sneak attack on next turn. A few levels of Sorc and a weapon-attack cantrip could net you both the same turn if you really want to go for that assassin-type, especially if employing poison as well. With the right build it could be nasty.
I do think the permanent-no-cost invisibility anywhere is stepping hard on the toes of Shadow Monk's Cloak of Shadows.
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I don't think that we were off topic that much, we were discussing a replacement for what this UA aims to do, also you were participating in the discussion as well.
Anyway, I don't like the Soulknife too much, it seems to close to the spell Shadowblade spell, but I would like to see it official just for someone who wants to play this type of rogue without multiclassing or being the arcane trickster. I think the Psionic Enhance ability is not great, the one that most people will choose is the Hit point maximum increase, maybe the telepathy if the character you're playing doesn't have great intelligence. I like the Terrifying Blade feature, it fits perfectly into the 9th level rogue subclass stereotype of useful but not too useful, and I'd love to see a multiclass between Soulknife and Oath of Conquest paladin, that would be an interesting mix of mechanics.
Now the fighter, mage hand is good, but if you want the Telekinetic feat this will be redundant and a bit underwhelming. Psionic Armament isn't good enough, a level 3 battle master can use a superiority dice to deal an extra 1d8 damage to a creature when they hit while simultaneously knocking them prone or pushing them, or doing whatever their maneuver does. The ability everyone will choose at 3rd level is the extra damage, and it is only on one attack each turn, and only 1d4. Sure, it's psychic damage, but that isn't a great excuse for this being bad. I think that they should either make it 1d6 at level 3 and 1d8 at level 10, or make it 1d4 on each attack, which might turn out to be overpowered. This is similar to the Path of the Zealot barbarian, the first attack they hit with on each of their turns deals an extra 1d6 radiant. I think that this needs to be better. Augmented Defense is okay, I wish that it was a bit better, but this paired with the Protection Fighting Style is actually pretty good. I like Strength of Mind, it is definitely a Darth Vader ability, like Jeremy Crawford said. I wish it recharged on a short rest, not long rest, to go along with all the other fighter abilities that do, like Second Wind, Action Surge, Superiority Dice, Arcane Archer abilities, and Samurai abilities. I like Telekinetic Bulwark, it feels a lot like a Paladin ability, which I think is strange. It is an interesting ability, but I'd like to see it be used an amount of times per long rest equal to your Intelligence modifier. Agonizing Strikes is amazing and I love it, it does 2d10 extra damage, which can be saved for critical hits, and knocks them prone, and gives them disadvantage on ability checks for a round. I love this ability, I can just imagine a powerful fighter with a maul hitting a creature, knocking them down, and picking them up and throwing them off a cliff, or something like that. Psychic Dreadnaught also feels a lot like a Paladin ability, though it is interesting that it triggers as a reaction. Overall, I like the class, but I am not sure if this concept wouldn't do better as a paladin subclass. They said that it is themed around Darth Vader abilities, I think that Darth Vader would fit more into the paladin category as well, and these abilities all feel like paladin abilities, the aura ability, the extra damage on a hit, the capstone ability that is very similar to the level 20 paladin abilities. Also, mage hand for a paladin would be interesting and cool.
Now, the Wizard. I've already expressed my concern about this subclass, experienced backlash for my opinion on what should happen instead, but these are my new thoughts. I like the psychic focus ability, I think it is good and this makes magic missile and jim's magic missile a lot better. All of the Psychic devotion abilities are good, I think that some of them could be better, the Mage Hand might be redundant if you take the Telekinetic Feat. Thought Form is interesting, I'd like to see it twirked a bit, maybe used less often, maybe turn you invisible as well, though that would be overpowered, I can't imagine what thought looks like. Mental Discipline and Empowered Psionics are both good boosts. Thought Travel is good, but I'd like a different ability, I'm not sure what, maybe a static boost to all saving throws against psionic spells?
I like all the spells, some are a bit powerful, Id Insinuation just looks Witch Bolt in the face and laughs. Ego Whip is just mean, Intellect Fortress is great, I like the new version of Mind Sliver.
This is just my second review of the UA, any thoughts?
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
So for those of us who are old school veterans, I can honestly say that while some of these sub class ideas could be interesting in some circumstances, dark sun will not be dark sun without defiler style mages and psionics as a separate system from magic. Literally the theme and story of the setting depends on it. Dark Sun would be somehow less interesting, vanilla, tame, whatever without it. It was literally a system evolved outside of magic for a brutal world that magic destroyed. A big RP element is in fact the differences between magic and psionics in world devoid of almost everything else.
so for me the change just simply doesn’t do it.
I get that developing a whole new system could be tricky from a balance stand point, so I sympathize a little bit. However, dark sun is dnd purist. After forgotton realms, you have dark sun. Pure and simple in my book. Eberron while cool and entertaining is new age, post Gygax invention. Mechanistically it was developed to fit dnd, but it is not the original. Given this, if Wotc can justify infusing the game with their own class, why can’t they justify a true original part of dnd?
this is sort of like taking the original concept of George Lucas, letting Disney buy it, then muddling everything up for the sake giving it the Disney treatment. (No offense wotc, but it is basically the same idea, still love mtg)
I agree, this is a reason why I think the UA doesn't do Psionics justice, we need a new system, as seen above.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I think that lore and mechanics are equal, sure you need good lore to support a mechanic, but you need great mechanics to support good lore. This goes for Psionics.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I’d agree with that, I guess I just think these new changes are done for the sake of mechanics only and completely ignore the reason why psionics matter.
I agree, I dislike how this new UA is not making Psionics be a different system, and just shoving it into the Wizard, Jeremy Crawford basically confirmed that this is what we're getting on Psionics for a while.
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Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Well that is disappointing. I hope they change their minds or don’t do dark sun at all cuz that would really really diminish the setting in my mind.
I’m gonna go against the grain here and say I’m stoked we’ve got SOME psionics finally, in any format, even if they are just as 50/50 flavour/mechanics. JC hasn’t said they’re *never* revisiting Mystic or Psionics. So I’m stoked we’ve got ANYTHING resembling it *for now*. I’ve been getting bored of the same 5 or so Int save spells to theme a mentalist, this is good news. At least to me. :)
Hjalmar Gunderson, Vuman Alchemist Plague Doctor in a HB Campaign, Post Netherese Invasion Cormyr (lvl20 retired)
Godfrey, Autognome Butler in Ghosts of Saltmarsh into Spelljammer
Grímr Skeggisson, Goliath Rune Knight in Rime of the Frostmaiden
DM of two HB campaigns set in the same world.
I disagree that we need for psionics to be a different system in the game for Dark Sun, when the setting itself already differentiated between divine and arcane magic.
You just need to make variant setting rules for arcane magic and make the defile subclasses.