I would change Chromatic orb to something else, possibly thunderous smite, I'm not sure.
Dispel Magic would be a better choice than Counterspell.
Banishment is strange, I would just have it be Banishing Smite at 17th level. I understand this will give you a banishing spell 4 levels earlier, I just think that banishing smite is better for the paladin.
I think that the Aura is too strange to be an aura, I'd change it to a Channel Divinity ability, and make the Aura be more of an extraplanar debuff ability.
The current Channel Divinities are okay, I prefer Abjure the Extraplanar instead of the Watcher's Will.
I love Vigilant Rebuke, as far as I know there is nothing like this in the game. You will fail whether or not you succeed, I will still punish you. I love combining this with Banishment or Banishing Smite. "GO AWAY! Oh, you don't want to? THEN DIE!"
I love their capstone ability, but it is pretty Niche. Great if the Blood War ever comes to the Material Plane, terrible if you're fighting goblins or other creatures native to your plane.
I'm really not concerned about the Capstone level 20 ability. Realistically if your playing characters that have grown to 20 this ability is showing up at the end of the narrative. And if you have a Watcher at the table things likely took an extraplanar turn long before now.
Vigilant Rebuke: I had to read the ability twice to really get it. You Rebuke the SPELL CASTER who attempted to CAST A SPELL on a creature THAT RESISTS the spell. So if Boblin the Goblin Warlock casts Hold Person on Todd the Rogue and Todd Resists, Bobby the Watcher can Rebuke Boblin. If Bobby casts Banishment on Boblin and Boblin resists, then Bobby would rebuke himself. (I was writing that I wished the ability worked differently because, like you said, there's nothing like that out there.)
I'm ok with the Aura, tying it to the Channel Divinity would be interesting, but ultimately would be like a Tax on the paladin since he would want to use it anytime the DM says "Roll Initiative" there's literally no reason not to. So for simplicity sake its just an always on Aura that really only comes into play at that exact moment.
I was mistaken in that definition, but please understand that actual "psychic" stuff is SO MUCH MORE than Jean Grey type stuff. Putting psionics down to "Read minds, control people, telekinesis, and hurt minds" is, in my mind, the equivalent to putting alchemy to "potion brewing". Actual, real psychic, not invented by D&D, has had a history of this manipulation and powers that go far beyond the scope of Jean Grey. I provided a simplified list in another post.
Having a Watcher character in the party does not imply that things have taken an extraplanar turn, it means that a character is a Watcher. They might correlate, but it is rare.
Having a Watcher character in the party does not imply that things have taken an extraplanar turn, it means that a character is a Watcher. They might correlate, but it is rare.
If there’s a Watcher in the party and the DM hasn’t introduced some extraplanar stuff by level 20 then the DM hasn’t done it right.
If the DM is having to entirely build and design encounters to fit a subclass one of their players is playing, then it is a bad subclass. I feel much the same about the Assassin subclass.
They don’t have to, but it’s a missed opportunity. Clearly that player wants to fight planar beings or else they wouldn’t have chosen that subclass. If a DM does not add elements into a campaign specifically designed for the stuff their players want to do then they did it wrong. It has nothing to do with the subclass, it has everything to do with the player’s desires. This is basic “Session 0” info that absolutely should influence the DM’s decisions on what stuff to include in the campaign.
And I’m going to head off the “that doesn’t help the AL players” argument by stating the simple fact that at least half of the existing subclasses are suboptimal for AL and that not all D&D has to cater to AL.
I was mistaken in that definition, but please understand that actual "psychic" stuff is SO MUCH MORE than Jean Grey type stuff. Putting psionics down to "Read minds, control people, telekinesis, and hurt minds" is, in my mind, the equivalent to putting alchemy to "potion brewing". Actual, real psychic, not invented by D&D, has had a history of this manipulation and powers that go far beyond the scope of Jean Grey. I provided a simplified list in another post.
Considering how very long and strenuously you yourself personally argued for the Alchemist to be nothing but a "potion brewer" - and how that viewpoint ultimately ended up successful, to the ENORMOUS detriment of the Alchemist subclass and the Artificer as a whole, you'll pardon me for maybe not buying it in this case.
I never argued for the Alchemist to be only a potion brewer, I argued that the Homonculus feature felt out of place compared to the rest of the Alchemists features. I stressed this multiple times, but apparently the message did not get through.
In either case, do you want me to source my claims? Do you want me to find evidence of these types of psionics that actually have a history? Or does the fact I made a point months ago that you are misrepresenting and disagreeing with mean that anything I have to say on any matter even remotely relevant to it automatically false, even if it actually has a basis in fact?
I never argued for the Alchemist to be only a potion brewer, I argued that the Homonculus feature felt out of place compared to the rest of the Alchemists features. I stressed this multiple times, but apparently the message did not get through.
Which is funny considering in actual, real world mythos a Homunculus is the alchemical equivalent to a familiar.
In either case, do you want me to source my claims? Do you want me to find evidence of these types of psionics that actually have a history? Or does the fact I made a point months ago that you are misrepresenting and disagreeing with mean that anything I have to say on any matter even remotely relevant to it automatically false, even if it actually has a basis in fact?
The source I sighted explicitly states that “The word ‘psionics’ began as, and always remained, a term of art within the science fiction community and [sic] it never achieved general currency, even among academic parapsychologists. In the years after the term was coined in 1951, it became increasingly evident that no scientific evidence supports the existence of ’psionic’ abilities.“
So regardless of whatever Yurei wants, I would greatly appreciate you presenting actual evidence to support your claim against my cited source.
If the DM is having to entirely build and design encounters to fit a subclass one of their players is playing, then it is a bad subclass. I feel much the same about the Assassin subclass.
The DM doesn't have to design an encounter or BBEG around one player's subclass. The DM can and should make encounters that play on the character's strengths and weaknesses. This is true not just for Watcher Paladins, but all classes and subclasses. If your party has a Mastermind Rogue the DM better have some mysteries for them to solve, or else they are missing out on some great opportunities to not only make the characters feel awesome but to also make your game better by them being more excited with the abilities they have.
The same applies to Oath of the Watchers. If the DM doesn't have ANY EXTRAPLANAR threats in a campaign that went all the way to level 20, they are obviously doing something wrong. How many games that you've run or played have had encounters with elementals, or mind flayers, or demons/devils? I know that all of the campaigns I have ever run have had extraplanar themes and creatures.
The DM doesn't have to design a campaign or villain around one player's subclass, but they should design encounters, traps, and other challenges around the strengths of all of the classes and subclasses at your table.
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I never argued for the Alchemist to be only a potion brewer, I argued that the Homonculus feature felt out of place compared to the rest of the Alchemists features. I stressed this multiple times, but apparently the message did not get through.
Which is funny considering in actual, real world mythos a Homunculus is the alchemical equivalent to a familiar.
Yes, homunculi are very present in historical alchemist lore.
Back to topic now, please, no need to reawaken month old arguments.
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What are some abilities that should be in the Monk Way of Mercy? I do like the idea of a Yin-Yang, death and life monk subclass, but I don't think they executed that correctly in this subclass.
What are some ideas?
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What are some abilities that should be in the Monk Way of Mercy? I do like the idea of a Yin-Yang, death and life monk subclass, but I don't think they executed that correctly in this subclass.
What are some ideas?
I think if they just add a "life focused" options to the miasma and they'd have pretty much nailed it.
I just think the poison is weird. If they wanted to make it life and death they should have the Hands of Harming be necrotic or radiant damage, make the Astral Projection be force or psychic damage just to differentiate between them if they were to do this. Hands of Mercy is just weird. This seems like it should be an ability for a time-shifter subclass, not this one.
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What are some abilities that should be in the Monk Way of Mercy? I do like the idea of a Yin-Yang, death and life monk subclass, but I don't think they executed that correctly in this subclass.
What are some ideas?
I think if they just add a "life focused" options to the miasma and they'd have pretty much nailed it.
I have to agree with The_Runner_Who_Runs on this one.
I actually have an idea for this. Take the level 11 feature "healing technique", and move it down to level 6, make it an Aura of Positive Ki. When this aura is active, when you use your healing hands on a creature within 5ft you can remove one of the following conditions: Blinded, Deafened, paralyzed, poisoned.
My thought is, the Healing Techinique is very much inline with Lesser Restoration, but coming online at level 11 when spell casters can start at level 3 is just too much of a gap. I'm ok with some gap, but that's crazy, especially if you are thinking of running this monk as a 'healer role' for recovering after the fight.
Then at level 11, upgrade the techniques, Let the Miasma bypass poison resistance and immunity (it starts to attack the Ki itself, not just the body) and the healing technique upgrades to affect status conditions associated with Greater Restoration.
It's still coming online a bit later than a spell caster, but not so much longer that you can't fill the role in the party.
Also, regarding the 'Healing/Poison' theme, I have to say I find it quite interesting. Far more interesting than the 'radiant/necrotic' thing that's been frankly done to death, and I feel like it would thematically encroach on the Way of the Long Death in an unnecessary fashion (side note: dndbeyonds monk page doesn't actually include that Subclass from the Swordcoast Adventurer's Guide! HA)
I'm really not concerned about the Capstone level 20 ability. Realistically if your playing characters that have grown to 20 this ability is showing up at the end of the narrative. And if you have a Watcher at the table things likely took an extraplanar turn long before now.
Vigilant Rebuke: I had to read the ability twice to really get it. You Rebuke the SPELL CASTER who attempted to CAST A SPELL on a creature THAT RESISTS the spell. So if Boblin the Goblin Warlock casts Hold Person on Todd the Rogue and Todd Resists, Bobby the Watcher can Rebuke Boblin. If Bobby casts Banishment on Boblin and Boblin resists, then Bobby would rebuke himself. (I was writing that I wished the ability worked differently because, like you said, there's nothing like that out there.)
I'm ok with the Aura, tying it to the Channel Divinity would be interesting, but ultimately would be like a Tax on the paladin since he would want to use it anytime the DM says "Roll Initiative" there's literally no reason not to. So for simplicity sake its just an always on Aura that really only comes into play at that exact moment.
I was mistaken in that definition, but please understand that actual "psychic" stuff is SO MUCH MORE than Jean Grey type stuff. Putting psionics down to "Read minds, control people, telekinesis, and hurt minds" is, in my mind, the equivalent to putting alchemy to "potion brewing". Actual, real psychic, not invented by D&D, has had a history of this manipulation and powers that go far beyond the scope of Jean Grey. I provided a simplified list in another post.
Having a Watcher character in the party does not imply that things have taken an extraplanar turn, it means that a character is a Watcher. They might correlate, but it is rare.
If there’s a Watcher in the party and the DM hasn’t introduced some extraplanar stuff by level 20 then the DM hasn’t done it right.
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If the DM is having to entirely build and design encounters to fit a subclass one of their players is playing, then it is a bad subclass. I feel much the same about the Assassin subclass.
They don’t have to, but it’s a missed opportunity. Clearly that player wants to fight planar beings or else they wouldn’t have chosen that subclass. If a DM does not add elements into a campaign specifically designed for the stuff their players want to do then they did it wrong. It has nothing to do with the subclass, it has everything to do with the player’s desires. This is basic “Session 0” info that absolutely should influence the DM’s decisions on what stuff to include in the campaign.
And I’m going to head off the “that doesn’t help the AL players” argument by stating the simple fact that at least half of the existing subclasses are suboptimal for AL and that not all D&D has to cater to AL.
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Considering how very long and strenuously you yourself personally argued for the Alchemist to be nothing but a "potion brewer" - and how that viewpoint ultimately ended up successful, to the ENORMOUS detriment of the Alchemist subclass and the Artificer as a whole, you'll pardon me for maybe not buying it in this case.
Please do not contact or message me.
I never argued for the Alchemist to be only a potion brewer, I argued that the Homonculus feature felt out of place compared to the rest of the Alchemists features. I stressed this multiple times, but apparently the message did not get through.
In either case, do you want me to source my claims? Do you want me to find evidence of these types of psionics that actually have a history? Or does the fact I made a point months ago that you are misrepresenting and disagreeing with mean that anything I have to say on any matter even remotely relevant to it automatically false, even if it actually has a basis in fact?
Which is funny considering in actual, real world mythos a Homunculus is the alchemical equivalent to a familiar.
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The source I sighted explicitly states that “The word ‘psionics’ began as, and always remained, a term of art within the science fiction community and [sic] it never achieved general currency, even among academic parapsychologists. In the years after the term was coined in 1951, it became increasingly evident that no scientific evidence supports the existence of ’psionic’ abilities.“
So regardless of whatever Yurei wants, I would greatly appreciate you presenting actual evidence to support your claim against my cited source.
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The DM doesn't have to design an encounter or BBEG around one player's subclass. The DM can and should make encounters that play on the character's strengths and weaknesses. This is true not just for Watcher Paladins, but all classes and subclasses. If your party has a Mastermind Rogue the DM better have some mysteries for them to solve, or else they are missing out on some great opportunities to not only make the characters feel awesome but to also make your game better by them being more excited with the abilities they have.
The same applies to Oath of the Watchers. If the DM doesn't have ANY EXTRAPLANAR threats in a campaign that went all the way to level 20, they are obviously doing something wrong. How many games that you've run or played have had encounters with elementals, or mind flayers, or demons/devils? I know that all of the campaigns I have ever run have had extraplanar themes and creatures.
The DM doesn't have to design a campaign or villain around one player's subclass, but they should design encounters, traps, and other challenges around the strengths of all of the classes and subclasses at your table.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Yes, homunculi are very present in historical alchemist lore.
Back to topic now, please, no need to reawaken month old arguments.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
https://ascensionglossary.com/index.php/Psionic
https://indigolifecenter.wordpress.com/2008/01/06/list-of-metaphysical-and-psionic-abilities/
to name a few
Not what I meant when I said back to topic.
What are some abilities that should be in the Monk Way of Mercy? I do like the idea of a Yin-Yang, death and life monk subclass, but I don't think they executed that correctly in this subclass.
What are some ideas?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Assessing the comparative reputability of our sources....
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I think if they just add a "life focused" options to the miasma and they'd have pretty much nailed it.
I just think the poison is weird. If they wanted to make it life and death they should have the Hands of Harming be necrotic or radiant damage, make the Astral Projection be force or psychic damage just to differentiate between them if they were to do this. Hands of Mercy is just weird. This seems like it should be an ability for a time-shifter subclass, not this one.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I have to agree with The_Runner_Who_Runs on this one.
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I actually have an idea for this. Take the level 11 feature "healing technique", and move it down to level 6, make it an Aura of Positive Ki. When this aura is active, when you use your healing hands on a creature within 5ft you can remove one of the following conditions: Blinded, Deafened, paralyzed, poisoned.
My thought is, the Healing Techinique is very much inline with Lesser Restoration, but coming online at level 11 when spell casters can start at level 3 is just too much of a gap. I'm ok with some gap, but that's crazy, especially if you are thinking of running this monk as a 'healer role' for recovering after the fight.
Then at level 11, upgrade the techniques, Let the Miasma bypass poison resistance and immunity (it starts to attack the Ki itself, not just the body) and the healing technique upgrades to affect status conditions associated with Greater Restoration.
It's still coming online a bit later than a spell caster, but not so much longer that you can't fill the role in the party.
Also, regarding the 'Healing/Poison' theme, I have to say I find it quite interesting. Far more interesting than the 'radiant/necrotic' thing that's been frankly done to death, and I feel like it would thematically encroach on the Way of the Long Death in an unnecessary fashion (side note: dndbeyonds monk page doesn't actually include that Subclass from the Swordcoast Adventurer's Guide! HA)