It seems like people are so against having a new system that they come up with bull crap reasons for why it wouldn't work.
Not dead set against a new system and wasn't giving "bull crap reasons". Just stating my preference and why.
Not referring to you, other posts. Not meaning to offend you in any way, you did bring up some good issues with a new system, but I think they can be solved if Wizards really tries.
You also aren't completely against the idea, like some other people are. I appreciate you being open minded about this topic, not like some others. I won't name them, because I don't want to personally attack them.
It seems like people are so against having a new system that they come up with bull crap reasons for why it wouldn't work.
Not dead set against a new system and wasn't giving "bull crap reasons". Just stating my preference and why.
Not referring to you, other posts. Not meaning to offend you in any way, you did bring up some good issues with a new system, but I think they can be solved if Wizards really tries.
No worries. Just wanted to clarify. All is cool sir.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some of my 5e homebrews on GM Binder for Dark Sun, Dark Sun Sub-classes. Feel free to message me with any questions, suggestions, or critiques.
In seriousness, I've mentioned it elsewhere but I'll bring it up again here: if WotC really wants to use an existing template as a springboard for psionics, I think Monk would be a better framework than any of the normal casters, just swap out their martial features to make room for spell or spell-like abilities instead.
As for what I personally think psionics should look like, I *really* liked what I saw in the Archivist UA, which had a cantrip-like ability that took on additional effects when you invested more resources into it (in that particular case, spell slots). Now obviously, Archivist had issues that needed smoothing, but none that were insurmountable or even that difficult to fix.
Please don't mistake me. I'm not *against* new systems. I simply don't see it happening.
So many existing spells are pretty much exactly what people think of when they think of psychic abilities. Telekinesis is a fifth-level spell that does exactly what it says on the tin. Detect Thoughts is a second-level spell that encompasses the core of telepathic ability pretty much all in one place. Wizards is not going to reinvent these effects with new names when they have governing language they already trust.
That doesn't mean that these things should be classic spellcasters. Bolt monk Ki progression into a class with an expanded Eldritch Invocation framework, use "Brain Points" to fuel said Invocations, and grant the class a set of six special psychic cantrips that act as the prerequisite for the Invocations. You gain one such cantrip at first level, and can potentially gain one or two more later on. The language for the abilities would use the spells because that's just inevitable, but such a framework would avoid the "spells, spell slots, and spell levels, oh my" issue.
Instead, choose your "Discipline" at first level. Since we're going to be restricting mentalists to only what they did thirty years ago, anyways. That discipline gives you access to a unique concentration cantrip only available to this class (or the inevitable weird subclasses). While that cantrip is active it lets you do a psychical thing related to your Discipline every turn. Psionic Invocations can either modify that base action or offer an entirely different ability usable while the cantrip is active. Other stuff that requires concentration, like Detect Thoughts or Telekinesis or what have you, ride on the cantrip's concentration instead. That base ability is free, but more advanced powers require the use of Brain Food/Ki Points/Sorcery Points/"Whateverpoints".
In this way, you take chunks of stuff Wizards has already agreed it's willing to allow to exist in the game and rearrange them into a framework that accomplishes the bulk of what some of you folks are looking for. Probably the best general shape of compromise people will find.
That’s actually not entirely far off from what I have been working on in many ways. the differences being that the “chosen discipline” is the subclass. I also used the Sorcery points instead of Ki because of the LR/SR difference. The Cantrip equivalents are “talents” which were never traditionally attached to the disciplines, but the invocationesque things are mechanically similar to Cantrips that can be fueled with “brain (psi) points.” Otherwise the major “powers” are a kindof Channel Divinity style mechanic that automatically scales in a manner to how the Warlock’s spell slots autoscale. Roughly, in a nutshell, sortakinda... ish.... It’s hard to articulate without just copying the whole thing over here.
That’s actually not entirely far off from what I have been working on in many ways. the differences being that the “chosen discipline” is the subclass. I also used the Sorcery points instead of Ki because of the LR/SR difference. The Cantrip equivalents are “talents” which were never traditionally attached to the disciplines, but the invocationesque things are mechanically similar to Cantrips that can be fueled with “brain (psi) points.” Otherwise the major “powers” are a kindof Channel Divinity style mechanic that automatically scales in a manner to how the Warlock’s spell slots autoscale. Roughly, in a nutshell, sortakinda... ish.... It’s hard to articulate without just copying the whole thing over here.
I agree, the Psion class should have 6 disciplines, each a subclass, and you get certain powers that scale based on level, can be enhanced with Psi Points, almost like Metamagic, but to deal more damage and just overall be more effective.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
I agree, the Psion class should have 6 disciplines, each a subclass, and you get certain powers that scale based on level, can be enhanced with Psi Points, almost like Metamagic, but to deal more damage and just overall be more effective.
I wouldn't want to see anything too crazy with increased damage. That was one of the dividing factors in 3.5 and got psionics labeled as being broken and OP. Would rather see options to switch between damage types like force and psychic damage.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Some of my 5e homebrews on GM Binder for Dark Sun, Dark Sun Sub-classes. Feel free to message me with any questions, suggestions, or critiques.
I wouldn't want to see anything too crazy with increased damage. That was one of the dividing factors in 3.5 and got psionics labeled as being broken and OP. Would rather see options to switch between damage types like force and psychic damage.
The scope of damage scaling I’m talking about would fall in line comparable to the way a Monk’s Martial Arts die increases (I’m actually calling it Psi Arts) or how Cantrips scale at higher levels. The range for the major Powers would be in line with casting a 1st-level spell like Burning Hands using higher level spell slots. In fact, I’m trying to be so careful about game balance that quite literally have a screenshot of the guideline table on p184 of the DMG (the spell damage by level table in the Creating a Spell section of chapter 9) up at all times so I can double-triple check for balance against D&D’s Vancian spellcasting whenever I’m working on it just to make sure it stays level appropriate.
Feeling late to this conversation, I just want to add that making the "core" psionic class a Sorcerer is a great disservice to this class. I'm allright with the Fighter and Rogue archetypes, and I'm ok with sorcerers having aberrant blood, but...
Psionics belong to Intelligence, not Charisma. It also should be its own class. The second psionic UA was OK. The archetypes were fine. They were just overpowered: tweak down a little the power creep an it is a fine class. Mostly, the complaints about them was with their interaction with magic, specially spells like Detect and Dispel Magic or Counterspell. Which is bonkers: the shapeshifting of the druids cannot be counterspelled, detected or dispeled in any way, and it is way more broken. The correct way to "dispel" psionics is to tie it to clear and conscious mind: you cannot be poisoned or stunned, and you need to mantain concentration on most effects.
I've even expanded it further in a file in the DMs Guild. I've even make it free to invite the developers to sack my work shamelessly
Feeling late to this conversation, I just want to add that making the "core" psionic class a Sorcerer is a great disservice to this class. I'm allright with the Fighter and Rogue archetypes, and I'm ok with sorcerers having aberrant blood, but...
Agreed.
Psionics belong to Intelligence, not Charisma. It also should be its own class.
Agreed.
The second psionic UA was OK. The archetypes were fine. They were just overpowered: tweak down a little the power creep an it is a fine class. Mostly, the complaints about them was with their interaction with magic, specially spells like Detect and Dispel Magic or Counterspell. Which is bonkers: the shapeshifting of the druids cannot be counterspelled, detected or dispeled in any way, and it is way more broken. The correct way to "dispel" psionics is to tie it to clear and conscious mind: you cannot be poisoned or stunned, and you need to mantain concentration on most effects.
I partially agree, but I think that Antimagic should get rid of psionic effects. It's magic, just a different source.
I've even expanded it further in a file in the DMs Guild. I've even make it free to invite the developers to sack my work shamelessly
There's a ton of psionic homebrew on DMs Guild and other places. None of them do it well, IMO.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
what is the disposition towards the mystic class in this thread? I personally think the system it uses was really interesting, yes it can be seen as just a disguised/ obfuscated version of the regular casting system in the sense that it is based off spell points and a disiplince effect that costs 3 psi points will be about as powerful as a 2nd level spell, but at the same time it gets the basics right. In it spellcasting is not the same as psionics, they use different systems, they feel different, and the various disiplinces do wildly different things. People criticized it for somehow being too flexible or stepping at too many toes but it had a pretty clear niche set out for itself, most abillities were either some kind of self-buff gish nonsense or leaned quite heavily towards control, debuffs and a random assortment of strange utillity effects
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Not dead set against a new system and wasn't giving "bull crap reasons". Just stating my preference and why.
Some of my 5e homebrews on GM Binder for Dark Sun, Dark Sun Sub-classes. Feel free to message me with any questions, suggestions, or critiques.
Not referring to you, other posts. Not meaning to offend you in any way, you did bring up some good issues with a new system, but I think they can be solved if Wizards really tries.
You also aren't completely against the idea, like some other people are. I appreciate you being open minded about this topic, not like some others. I won't name them, because I don't want to personally attack them.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
No worries. Just wanted to clarify. All is cool sir.
Some of my 5e homebrews on GM Binder for Dark Sun, Dark Sun Sub-classes. Feel free to message me with any questions, suggestions, or critiques.
My butt is ready, Yurei...
...That came out wrong, didn't it?
In seriousness, I've mentioned it elsewhere but I'll bring it up again here: if WotC really wants to use an existing template as a springboard for psionics, I think Monk would be a better framework than any of the normal casters, just swap out their martial features to make room for spell or spell-like abilities instead.
As for what I personally think psionics should look like, I *really* liked what I saw in the Archivist UA, which had a cantrip-like ability that took on additional effects when you invested more resources into it (in that particular case, spell slots). Now obviously, Archivist had issues that needed smoothing, but none that were insurmountable or even that difficult to fix.
Please don't mistake me. I'm not *against* new systems. I simply don't see it happening.
So many existing spells are pretty much exactly what people think of when they think of psychic abilities. Telekinesis is a fifth-level spell that does exactly what it says on the tin. Detect Thoughts is a second-level spell that encompasses the core of telepathic ability pretty much all in one place. Wizards is not going to reinvent these effects with new names when they have governing language they already trust.
That doesn't mean that these things should be classic spellcasters. Bolt monk Ki progression into a class with an expanded Eldritch Invocation framework, use "Brain Points" to fuel said Invocations, and grant the class a set of six special psychic cantrips that act as the prerequisite for the Invocations. You gain one such cantrip at first level, and can potentially gain one or two more later on. The language for the abilities would use the spells because that's just inevitable, but such a framework would avoid the "spells, spell slots, and spell levels, oh my" issue.
Instead, choose your "Discipline" at first level. Since we're going to be restricting mentalists to only what they did thirty years ago, anyways. That discipline gives you access to a unique concentration cantrip only available to this class (or the inevitable weird subclasses). While that cantrip is active it lets you do a psychical thing related to your Discipline every turn. Psionic Invocations can either modify that base action or offer an entirely different ability usable while the cantrip is active. Other stuff that requires concentration, like Detect Thoughts or Telekinesis or what have you, ride on the cantrip's concentration instead. That base ability is free, but more advanced powers require the use of Brain Food/Ki Points/Sorcery Points/"Whateverpoints".
In this way, you take chunks of stuff Wizards has already agreed it's willing to allow to exist in the game and rearrange them into a framework that accomplishes the bulk of what some of you folks are looking for. Probably the best general shape of compromise people will find.
Please do not contact or message me.
That’s actually not entirely far off from what I have been working on in many ways. the differences being that the “chosen discipline” is the subclass. I also used the Sorcery points instead of Ki because of the LR/SR difference. The Cantrip equivalents are “talents” which were never traditionally attached to the disciplines, but the invocationesque things are mechanically similar to Cantrips that can be fueled with “brain (psi) points.” Otherwise the major “powers” are a kindof Channel Divinity style mechanic that automatically scales in a manner to how the Warlock’s spell slots autoscale. Roughly, in a nutshell, sortakinda... ish.... It’s hard to articulate without just copying the whole thing over here.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I agree, the Psion class should have 6 disciplines, each a subclass, and you get certain powers that scale based on level, can be enhanced with Psi Points, almost like Metamagic, but to deal more damage and just overall be more effective.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I wouldn't want to see anything too crazy with increased damage. That was one of the dividing factors in 3.5 and got psionics labeled as being broken and OP. Would rather see options to switch between damage types like force and psychic damage.
Some of my 5e homebrews on GM Binder for Dark Sun, Dark Sun Sub-classes. Feel free to message me with any questions, suggestions, or critiques.
The scope of damage scaling I’m talking about would fall in line comparable to the way a Monk’s Martial Arts die increases (I’m actually calling it Psi Arts) or how Cantrips scale at higher levels. The range for the major Powers would be in line with casting a 1st-level spell like Burning Hands using higher level spell slots. In fact, I’m trying to be so careful about game balance that quite literally have a screenshot of the guideline table on p184 of the DMG (the spell damage by level table in the Creating a Spell section of chapter 9) up at all times so I can double-triple check for balance against D&D’s Vancian spellcasting whenever I’m working on it just to make sure it stays level appropriate.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Feeling late to this conversation, I just want to add that making the "core" psionic class a Sorcerer is a great disservice to this class. I'm allright with the Fighter and Rogue archetypes, and I'm ok with sorcerers having aberrant blood, but...
Psionics belong to Intelligence, not Charisma. It also should be its own class. The second psionic UA was OK. The archetypes were fine. They were just overpowered: tweak down a little the power creep an it is a fine class. Mostly, the complaints about them was with their interaction with magic, specially spells like Detect and Dispel Magic or Counterspell. Which is bonkers: the shapeshifting of the druids cannot be counterspelled, detected or dispeled in any way, and it is way more broken. The correct way to "dispel" psionics is to tie it to clear and conscious mind: you cannot be poisoned or stunned, and you need to mantain concentration on most effects.
I've even expanded it further in a file in the DMs Guild. I've even make it free to invite the developers to sack my work shamelessly
Agreed.
Agreed.
I partially agree, but I think that Antimagic should get rid of psionic effects. It's magic, just a different source.
There's a ton of psionic homebrew on DMs Guild and other places. None of them do it well, IMO.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
what is the disposition towards the mystic class in this thread? I personally think the system it uses was really interesting, yes it can be seen as just a disguised/ obfuscated version of the regular casting system in the sense that it is based off spell points and a disiplince effect that costs 3 psi points will be about as powerful as a 2nd level spell, but at the same time it gets the basics right. In it spellcasting is not the same as psionics, they use different systems, they feel different, and the various disiplinces do wildly different things. People criticized it for somehow being too flexible or stepping at too many toes but it had a pretty clear niche set out for itself, most abillities were either some kind of self-buff gish nonsense or leaned quite heavily towards control, debuffs and a random assortment of strange utillity effects
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes