Horizon walker doesn't do piercing damage with 3rd lvl ability, all turns into force damage.
Heh. Yeah, that was a cool ability.
One of the concepts I'd been fiddling with was having a Rogue who did 3 levels of Horizon Walker, turning all that Sneak Attack damage into Force damage.
He'd zoom around the battlefield with Cunning Action "Dash", and release the force-damage on impact...sort of like the electric-discharge from The Flash, for example.
About this... I'd like your opinion on a problem I'm having. My bf is the DM of a campaign that just started. As soon as I saw this subclass I fell in love, and I chose it right away. The thing is, DM tells me that this subclass is stupidly broken, and he wants to nerf it quite a bit. Especially Starry Form; he ruled that as soon as I use my Wild Shape feature I gain Temporary Hitpoints equal to 4 for each druid level. As soon as I lose those hitpoints, my Wild Shape drops (He wanted to make it similar to the Circle of the Spores's "Symbiotic Entity"). Last session I used my Starry Form before combat initiated, a monster got a really high initiative and dealt 8 damage on a single attack. Poof. No more Starry Form for me. Is it REALLY that broken? And if it's not, how can I explain to him that we should use it as it is?
Not by my take. It's no more broken than a Moon Druid. You just perform better at Range vs. Melee. Especially if he didn't let you try the original Starry Form.
About this... I'd like your opinion on a problem I'm having. My bf is the DM of a campaign that just started. As soon as I saw this subclass I fell in love, and I chose it right away. The thing is, DM tells me that this subclass is stupidly broken, and he wants to nerf it quite a bit. Especially Starry Form; he ruled that as soon as I use my Wild Shape feature I gain Temporary Hitpoints equal to 4 for each druid level. As soon as I lose those hitpoints, my Wild Shape drops (He wanted to make it similar to the Circle of the Spores's "Symbiotic Entity"). Last session I used my Starry Form before combat initiated, a monster got a really high initiative and dealt 8 damage on a single attack. Poof. No more Starry Form for me. Is it REALLY that broken? And if it's not, how can I explain to him that we should use it as it is?
I would consider asking them what aspects he specifically finds "broken" or "overpowered"...because as I view it, there are strong features here to help beef up combat, healing, or concentration...but not all three at once. Whatever advantages Starry Form provides, a clever DM can find creative ways to deal with it, I feel.
Respect the DM's worries, of course, but also convey that you wish to have fun with the character...perhaps allow the subclass "as written" to proceed, just to see if difficulties arise, and revert back to the temporary hp rule if encounters become too easy to overcome.
In my experience...encounters CAN always have their challenge increased, after all. ; )
About this... I'd like your opinion on a problem I'm having. My bf is the DM of a campaign that just started. As soon as I saw this subclass I fell in love, and I chose it right away. The thing is, DM tells me that this subclass is stupidly broken, and he wants to nerf it quite a bit. Especially Starry Form; he ruled that as soon as I use my Wild Shape feature I gain Temporary Hitpoints equal to 4 for each druid level. As soon as I lose those hitpoints, my Wild Shape drops (He wanted to make it similar to the Circle of the Spores's "Symbiotic Entity"). Last session I used my Starry Form before combat initiated, a monster got a really high initiative and dealt 8 damage on a single attack. Poof. No more Starry Form for me. Is it REALLY that broken? And if it's not, how can I explain to him that we should use it as it is?
Is a UA subclass more powerful than necessary? Yes. They always are. It's easier to throw too much in and walk back what doesn't work than to add more to move it up. That's just a basic of design and testing of any kind.
Star Map: 3-4 free castings of Guiding Bolt (or augury) per long rest. It's a great concept but I can see how this is very strong at the level it shows up. The power should fade off rather quickly as casting a level 1 spell for an offensive action becomes less and less viable over time. Perhaps delaying the guilding bolt until level 4 might be a good tradeoff.
Starry Form: none of the forms are particularly overpowered, but the Archer does stand out at low levels. The problem is that it's an average of 10 damage on a bonus action, always good, but without scaling it wont maintain it's viability past level 10. I'd consider dropping the +wisdom modifier and perhaps scaling it like a cantrip, getting an extra damage die at certain levels if you think it starts off too strong or scales too poorly.
Omens: Strong, but not so strong. Mathematically Advantage is a +5, this is an average of +4 but can stack with advantage and other modifiers (bane bless Bard). Most of the time it wont make a difference, occasionally it will have a moment to shine. Those moments are bound to be memorable.
Full of Stars: Resistance to physical attacks: Nice but I think I might add a 'From non-magical sources" to it.
Star Flare: Nice, flavorful, battle field control that can be mixed with other Stationary effects. Good for a capstone.
All in all, your BF is right. This class is VERY strong when you first get it. Just like Moon Druids. But those things that make it so strong at level 2 start to quickly fall behind starting as early as level 3 or 4. I'd recommend tweaking when the abilities come online or adjusting how they scale before I would start making major mechanical changes like temporary hit points.
Star Map: 3-4 free castings of Guiding Bolt (or augury) per long rest. It's a great concept but I can see how this is very strong at the level it shows up. The power should fade off rather quickly as casting a level 1 spell for an offensive action becomes less and less viable over time. Perhaps delaying the guilding bolt until level 4 might be a good tradeoff.
I mean, a cleric can already cast the spell when the druid gets it - it is like giving you 1-5 extra level 1 slots. Land druids could already do that. Wizards could already do that. Meh, strong when you get it and diminishes quickly. Allows you to spend slots on spells other than damage while giving you an ok but not excellent option.
Starry Form: none of the forms are particularly overpowered, but the Archer does stand out at low levels. The problem is that it's an average of 10 damage on a bonus action, always good, but without scaling it wont maintain it's viability past level 10. I'd consider dropping the +wisdom modifier and perhaps scaling it like a cantrip, getting an extra damage die at certain levels if you think it starts off too strong or scales too poorly.
It scales, albeit slowly on wis modifier, which means it isn't 10 when you get it, it is more like a 7.5 that scales to 9.5.
Omens: Strong, but not so strong. Mathematically Advantage is a +5, this is an average of +4 but can stack with advantage and other modifiers (bane bless Bard). Most of the time it wont make a difference, occasionally it will have a moment to shine. Those moments are bound to be memorable.
Mathematically, advantage is not +5, it is a lot more complicated than that generally. But a bonus is better than advantage every time because there are a ton of ways to get advantage (and a number of ways to force disadvantage, neither of which stack - though disadvantage negates all sources of advantage) and a bonus can get you a higher total (advantage cannot) and will stack with other sources of bonuses. I would choose a bonus of 1d6 over advantage any day.
Thank you all for your arguments for this class, you've assured me that my fears of this being OP are unfounded. I haven't played enough with other druids to compare how their damage, spell usage and utility compares, but the assessments provided here make sense :)
I personally think that stars druid is the most offensive not all the druid subclasses. The others are support, defense or tank. So it is difficult to judge at first when the other subclasses do different things. But, I love this and hope it gets made official. And the roleplaying aspect is great for these guys, making them really attractive for a druid lover. AKA - Me!
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I just wish that this subclass added Crown of Stars to the spell list for this subclass. I don’t need it for free, happy to spend the spell slot for it, but just for the thematics of it if nothing else.
I just wish that this subclass added Crown of Stars to the spell list for this subclass. I don’t need it for free, happy to spend the spell slot for it, but just for the thematics of it if nothing else.
Way I see it, the "Starry Form" can easily be flavored as having a "crown of stars"...just motes of stars hovering about your celestial form, or head.
Then, the "Archer" constellation can be you firing these hovering motes of radiant damage, much like "Crown of Stars".
An easy fix...and exactly what I had been looking for, as well!
I just wish that this subclass added Crown of Stars to the spell list for this subclass. I don’t need it for free, happy to spend the spell slot for it, but just for the thematics of it if nothing else.
Wasn't Crown of Stars on the Class Feature Variants druid spell list?
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I just wish that this subclass added Crown of Stars to the spell list for this subclass. I don’t need it for free, happy to spend the spell slot for it, but just for the thematics of it if nothing else.
Wasn't Crown of Stars on the Class Feature Variants druid spell list?
I just wish that this subclass added Crown of Stars to the spell list for this subclass. I don’t need it for free, happy to spend the spell slot for it, but just for the thematics of it if nothing else.
Wasn't Crown of Stars on the Class Feature Variants druid spell list?
The newest UA contains a design tip that I don't necessarily agree with. It says that subclass spell lists should only contain PHB spells. I think that if a subclass is printed in a particular source book, then spells in that source book should also be fair game.
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Heh. Yeah, that was a cool ability.
One of the concepts I'd been fiddling with was having a Rogue who did 3 levels of Horizon Walker, turning all that Sneak Attack damage into Force damage.
He'd zoom around the battlefield with Cunning Action "Dash", and release the force-damage on impact...sort of like the electric-discharge from The Flash, for example.
About this... I'd like your opinion on a problem I'm having. My bf is the DM of a campaign that just started. As soon as I saw this subclass I fell in love, and I chose it right away. The thing is, DM tells me that this subclass is stupidly broken, and he wants to nerf it quite a bit. Especially Starry Form; he ruled that as soon as I use my Wild Shape feature I gain Temporary Hitpoints equal to 4 for each druid level. As soon as I lose those hitpoints, my Wild Shape drops (He wanted to make it similar to the Circle of the Spores's "Symbiotic Entity"). Last session I used my Starry Form before combat initiated, a monster got a really high initiative and dealt 8 damage on a single attack. Poof. No more Starry Form for me. Is it REALLY that broken? And if it's not, how can I explain to him that we should use it as it is?
Not by my take. It's no more broken than a Moon Druid. You just perform better at Range vs. Melee. Especially if he didn't let you try the original Starry Form.
I would consider asking them what aspects he specifically finds "broken" or "overpowered"...because as I view it, there are strong features here to help beef up combat, healing, or concentration...but not all three at once. Whatever advantages Starry Form provides, a clever DM can find creative ways to deal with it, I feel.
Respect the DM's worries, of course, but also convey that you wish to have fun with the character...perhaps allow the subclass "as written" to proceed, just to see if difficulties arise, and revert back to the temporary hp rule if encounters become too easy to overcome.
In my experience...encounters CAN always have their challenge increased, after all. ; )
Is a UA subclass more powerful than necessary? Yes. They always are. It's easier to throw too much in and walk back what doesn't work than to add more to move it up. That's just a basic of design and testing of any kind.
Star Map: 3-4 free castings of Guiding Bolt (or augury) per long rest. It's a great concept but I can see how this is very strong at the level it shows up. The power should fade off rather quickly as casting a level 1 spell for an offensive action becomes less and less viable over time. Perhaps delaying the guilding bolt until level 4 might be a good tradeoff.
Starry Form: none of the forms are particularly overpowered, but the Archer does stand out at low levels. The problem is that it's an average of 10 damage on a bonus action, always good, but without scaling it wont maintain it's viability past level 10. I'd consider dropping the +wisdom modifier and perhaps scaling it like a cantrip, getting an extra damage die at certain levels if you think it starts off too strong or scales too poorly.
Omens: Strong, but not so strong. Mathematically Advantage is a +5, this is an average of +4 but can stack with advantage and other modifiers (bane bless Bard). Most of the time it wont make a difference, occasionally it will have a moment to shine. Those moments are bound to be memorable.
Full of Stars: Resistance to physical attacks: Nice but I think I might add a 'From non-magical sources" to it.
Star Flare: Nice, flavorful, battle field control that can be mixed with other Stationary effects. Good for a capstone.
All in all, your BF is right. This class is VERY strong when you first get it. Just like Moon Druids. But those things that make it so strong at level 2 start to quickly fall behind starting as early as level 3 or 4. I'd recommend tweaking when the abilities come online or adjusting how they scale before I would start making major mechanical changes like temporary hit points.
I mean, a cleric can already cast the spell when the druid gets it - it is like giving you 1-5 extra level 1 slots. Land druids could already do that. Wizards could already do that. Meh, strong when you get it and diminishes quickly. Allows you to spend slots on spells other than damage while giving you an ok but not excellent option.
It scales, albeit slowly on wis modifier, which means it isn't 10 when you get it, it is more like a 7.5 that scales to 9.5.
Mathematically, advantage is not +5, it is a lot more complicated than that generally. But a bonus is better than advantage every time because there are a ton of ways to get advantage (and a number of ways to force disadvantage, neither of which stack - though disadvantage negates all sources of advantage) and a bonus can get you a higher total (advantage cannot) and will stack with other sources of bonuses. I would choose a bonus of 1d6 over advantage any day.
Thank you all for your arguments for this class, you've assured me that my fears of this being OP are unfounded. I haven't played enough with other druids to compare how their damage, spell usage and utility compares, but the assessments provided here make sense :)
I personally think that stars druid is the most offensive not all the druid subclasses. The others are support, defense or tank. So it is difficult to judge at first when the other subclasses do different things. But, I love this and hope it gets made official. And the roleplaying aspect is great for these guys, making them really attractive for a druid lover. AKA - Me!
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
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Thank you guys so much for anwering to my problem! I'll see if I can talk with the DM and hopefully I'll get a good answer <3
I just wish that this subclass added Crown of Stars to the spell list for this subclass. I don’t need it for free, happy to spend the spell slot for it, but just for the thematics of it if nothing else.
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Way I see it, the "Starry Form" can easily be flavored as having a "crown of stars"...just motes of stars hovering about your celestial form, or head.
Then, the "Archer" constellation can be you firing these hovering motes of radiant damage, much like "Crown of Stars".
An easy fix...and exactly what I had been looking for, as well!
Wasn't Crown of Stars on the Class Feature Variants druid spell list?
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Nope, Symbol
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I stand corrected.
They should definitely get it though.
The problem is that it is in Xanathar's Guide to Everything.
The only problem that I have with XGtE is that it isn't in every book so they can reference anything from in it.
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Agreed
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Not to derail this, but Xanathar's Guide to Everything needs to made into a Core Rulebook.
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Never gonna happen. The core books have numbered 3 since the very beginning.
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Yeah, I get that. I wish that they'd do it, because it would open up their ability to add certain spells to new subclasses that they currently can't.
(I personally use Xanathar's way more than the DMG)
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I occasionally look something up in the DMG, I use it for magic items, I use Xanathar’s so much I forget what’s in it a not in the PHB.
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The newest UA contains a design tip that I don't necessarily agree with. It says that subclass spell lists should only contain PHB spells. I think that if a subclass is printed in a particular source book, then spells in that source book should also be fair game.