I guess that’s what bores me about 5e, everything is so predictable. This genuinely has me excited about something other than homebrew for the first time in a while.
I know this is going to sound dismissive, but having read the last two pages of your replies, have you considered that maybe 5e may not be the game for you?
One thing you have to realize is I started playing a Psionicist in 2e. Back then, you had to make “contact” with a target (that might take up to three tries) and then you could use your power, and then you rolled just to see if the power went off or if it fizzled out and you wasted your Psi Points. Back then, your power might not work at all and still cost you your resource. This Talent die reminds me of that, but without anywhere near the same downside. It feels right to me as an old guard player.
Exactly. In 2e psionics you needed to roll low in order for the power to go off. The talent die is trying to recapture that in a way.
I guess that’s what bores me about 5e, everything is so predictable. This genuinely has me excited about something other than homebrew for the first time in a while.
I know this is going to sound dismissive, but having read the last two pages of your replies, have you considered that maybe 5e may not be the game for you?
I have. Unfortunately it is the “Lingua Franca.” Don’t get me wrong, 5e is the cleanest version of D&D to date. But it is also the most predictable. PCs are expected to survive to the end of the story. If you knew who was gonna survive to the end of GoT, it wouldn’t have been exciting. I never feel like my character is in real risk of death. Where is the fun in succeeding when failure was never a possibility?
IMHO, the only real drawback to 5e is that it is too streamlined. I like a little grit and crunch and risk in a game. I’m one of those “legendary no saves” kind of players. For me, that’s the one thing most lacking in 5e.
I have a habit of adding complexity in my homebrews. I think it's just a tendency to want to balance the scales between the streamlined rule set of 5e and some of the more granular customization options of previous editions. There's certainly nothing wrong with moving in that direction--it's just that we are going to have to lean on homebrew most of the time to bridge the gap. Who knows? Maybe this is a turning point for 5e. It's not like a paradigm shift or anything, but if they were to add psionics as it appears here, it would add complexity to the game in a way that is a departure from five years of structural precedent. That will please some and upset others.
Or they may just throw a big old "These are optional rules" disclaimer on it and let the chips fall where they may.
Everything you hate about it is exactly everything I love about it. This is the most interesting mechanic in all of 5e.
If I were to take that opinion at face value, I do not like what that implies about 5e.
Oh?
What I mean is, did we reach a point where 5e has gone too far in trying to make the game as accessible as possible?
I honestly think 5e reached that point quite a while ago, that’s why the Artificer turned into yet another half-caster. Anytime a UA comes out with anything even remotely innovative the bulk of the responses are about how it’s “too complicated” and doesn’t “fit the 5e design philosophy” and so WotC waters it down to the lowest common denominator of “expend a spell slot” or “uses per [BLANK] Rest according to your [BLANK] modifier.”
Why can’t players like me, or Yurei, or Levi have at least this one class/mechanic that breaks that mold? Pretty please? With sprinkles and whipped cream on top? 🙏
One thing you have to realize is I started playing a Psionicist in 2e. Back then, you had to make “contact” with a target (that might take up to three tries) and then you could use your power, and then you rolled just to see if the power went off or if it fizzled out and you wasted your Psi Points. Back then, your power might not work at all and still cost you your resource. This Talent die reminds me of that, but without anywhere near the same downside. It feels right to me as an old guard player.
Exactly. In 2e psionics you needed to roll low in order for the power to go off. The talent die to trying to recapture that in a way.
I have a habit of adding complexity in my homebrews. I think it's just a tendency to want to balance the scales between the streamlined rule set of 5e and some of the more granular customization options of previous editions. There's certainly nothing wrong with moving in that direction--it's just that we are going to have to lean on homebrew most of the time to bridge the gap. Who knows? Maybe this is a turning point for 5e. It's not like a paradigm shift or anything, but if they were to add psionics as it appears here, it would add complexity to the game in a way that is a departure from five years of structural precedent. That will please some and upset others.
Or they may just throw a big old "These are optional rules" disclaimer on it and let the chips fall where they may.
I hope it is that turning point, at least to a degree. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want a return to 2e or anything (THAC0 *shudders*) but just a little more gris for the mill would be a refreshing change of pace.
"Changing the Die’s Size. If you roll the highest number on your Psionic Talent die, it decreases by one die size after the roll. This represents you burning through your psionic energy. For example, if the die is a d6 and you roll a 6, it becomes a d4. If it’s a d4 and you roll a 4, it becomes unusable until you finish a long rest. Conversely, if you roll a 1 on your Psionic Talent die, it increases by one die size after the roll, up to its starting size. This represents you conserving psionic energy for later use. For example, if you roll a 1 on a d4, the die then becomes a d6."
I don't know what this means. The psionics features should be simplified and not be complicated.
Pretty godawful savage nerf to anything that wasn't slaughtered altogether. The 'Psionic Talent' mechanic punishing you for rolling well feels jank as hell. I get that they were looking for a unifying mechanic, but this is a weird and unintuitive unifying mechanic. They destroyed the poor Aberrant Mind, no more psychic-modeled spells, and now you need to take two separate feats before you can gain any off-class benefit from psionic ability?
Feels bad. Feels really bad, like a severe Stop-Having-Fun-Guys edict. Which...means we're probably pretty close to the eventual release version of psionic abilities. Sadness.
Pretty godawful savage nerf to anything that wasn't slaughtered altogether. The 'Psionic Talent' mechanic punishing you for rolling well feels jank as hell. I get that they were looking for a unifying mechanic, but this is a weird and unintuitive unifying mechanic. They destroyed the poor Aberrant Mind, no more psychic-modeled spells, and now you need to take two separate feats before you can gain any off-class benefit from psionic ability?
Feels bad. Feels really bad, like a severe Stop-Having-Fun-Guys edict. Which...means we're probably pretty close to the eventual release version of psionic abilities. Sadness.
"I honestly think 5e reached that point quite a while ago, that’s why the Artificer turned into yet another half-caster. Anytime a UA comes out with anything even remotely innovative the bulk of the responses are about how it’s “too complicated” and doesn’t “fit the 5e design philosophy” and so WotC waters it down to the lowest common denominator of “expend a spell slot” or “uses per [BLANK] Rest according to your [BLANK] modifier.”
Why can’t players like me, or Yurei, or Levi have at least this one class/mechanic that breaks that mold? Pretty please? With sprinkles and whipped cream on top? 🙏"
I guess I saw this part and thought you were insinuating they liked the system. Overall I think mixing Success with Failure and Failure with Success feels weird.
Pretty godawful savage nerf to anything that wasn't slaughtered altogether. The 'Psionic Talent' mechanic punishing you for rolling well feels jank as hell. I get that they were looking for a unifying mechanic, but this is a weird and unintuitive unifying mechanic. They destroyed the poor Aberrant Mind, no more psychic-modeled spells, and now you need to take two separate feats before you can gain any off-class benefit from psionic ability?
Feels bad. Feels really bad, like a severe Stop-Having-Fun-Guys edict. Which...means we're probably pretty close to the eventual release version of psionic abilities. Sadness.
Like, I can kinda get what they were going for. They have severely overused the "you can use this thing a number of times equal to your Whatever modifier per rest" mechanic.
"Psionic Talent" Die: This is a decent idea executed horribly. The notion of having what basically amounts to a sub-stat that tells you how powerful your psionic abilities are, which you can directly roll to influence many of those abilities, is not a bad one. It also allows psionic abilities to be stat-agnostic, for all those people who think psionic power/talent shouldn't revolve around Intelligence (you're wrong and you should feel bad, but now you're allowed to be wrong and feel bad and still psychic). Having played a bunch of Savage Worlds lately, using the evolving die steps (d4, d6, d8...) to represent growing power is an elegant solution I approve of.
Having that power burn out and die when you roll really well is hornswoggle. It's also super obnoxious to keep track of on a digital sheet like DDB's - "what, what size was my Psydie at again? Did I get down to a d4 or am I still at a d6? ****in'...I dunno, just tell me what my PsyDie is, DM". The fact that the psychic never has any control over when this happens, no ability whatsoever to learn to control or moderate their power and pace themselves throughout the day, freaking bothers me.A nine thousand year old gith supergoober with four hundred levels of everything psionic and a d100 Talent die still has no more control over when his stuff 'burns out' than the rawest freaking rookie.
To say nothing of attaching the "punishment" aspect of the roll to the HIGH result, so that every time you roll your Psionic Talent thingus you're hoping and praying you don't get that max number...what the shit? How are you supposed to enjoy those moments when a clutch-ass PsyDie roll saves your moment when those same rolls are the ones that burn out your entire freaking subclass for THE ENTIRE DAY? Yeah okay, everybody gets that once-a-day refresh, but man...even if I know better than to write it off without playing it, I cannot say the idea fills me with glee.
Some of the ideas in here are good. Just...man. I hate it when the Idea Guy at Wizards has to turn their shit over to whichever evil-souled bridge troll does their second-pass work on shit like this...
I think what they wanted to do was get the idea of exertion without using slots or the times per rest mechanic. Personally I think it's rather elegant.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I think what they wanted to do was get the idea of exertion without using slots or the times per rest mechanic. Personally I think it's rather elegant.
There was obviously a lot of creative effort spent on this UA, which makes me wonder why it feels so lackluster to me. For example, I appreciate the creativity behind the dice, though I suspect I won't like the gameplay experience.
There was obviously a lot of creative effort spent on this UA, which makes me wonder why it feels so lackluster to me. For example, I appreciate the creativity behind the dice, though I suspect I won't like the gameplay experience.
They have overused that system, but it doesn't mean that you have to invent a new complicated system.
I don't like the new dice mechanic, agreeing with Yurei and the few others. It feels very not 5e, and not in a good way. It isn't a refreshing version of weird to me, more of a bad weird.
Like, if they want to introduce new mechanics, why did they abandon the Mystic, who's abilities are easier to understand than this.
I just don't like it.
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To each their own. For me, the “unknown and the potential negative outcome” are what has me so excited for this.
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I know this is going to sound dismissive, but having read the last two pages of your replies, have you considered that maybe 5e may not be the game for you?
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Exactly. In 2e psionics you needed to roll low in order for the power to go off. The talent die is trying to recapture that in a way.
Some of my 5e homebrews on GM Binder for Dark Sun, Dark Sun Sub-classes. Feel free to message me with any questions, suggestions, or critiques.
I have. Unfortunately it is the “Lingua Franca.” Don’t get me wrong, 5e is the cleanest version of D&D to date. But it is also the most predictable. PCs are expected to survive to the end of the story. If you knew who was gonna survive to the end of GoT, it wouldn’t have been exciting. I never feel like my character is in real risk of death. Where is the fun in succeeding when failure was never a possibility?
IMHO, the only real drawback to 5e is that it is too streamlined. I like a little grit and crunch and risk in a game. I’m one of those “legendary no saves” kind of players. For me, that’s the one thing most lacking in 5e.
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I have a habit of adding complexity in my homebrews. I think it's just a tendency to want to balance the scales between the streamlined rule set of 5e and some of the more granular customization options of previous editions. There's certainly nothing wrong with moving in that direction--it's just that we are going to have to lean on homebrew most of the time to bridge the gap. Who knows? Maybe this is a turning point for 5e. It's not like a paradigm shift or anything, but if they were to add psionics as it appears here, it would add complexity to the game in a way that is a departure from five years of structural precedent. That will please some and upset others.
Or they may just throw a big old "These are optional rules" disclaimer on it and let the chips fall where they may.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I honestly think 5e reached that point quite a while ago, that’s why the Artificer turned into yet another half-caster. Anytime a UA comes out with anything even remotely innovative the bulk of the responses are about how it’s “too complicated” and doesn’t “fit the 5e design philosophy” and so WotC waters it down to the lowest common denominator of “expend a spell slot” or “uses per [BLANK] Rest according to your [BLANK] modifier.”
Why can’t players like me, or Yurei, or Levi have at least this one class/mechanic that breaks that mold? Pretty please? With sprinkles and whipped cream on top? 🙏
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Yeah, someone is seeing what I see. Thank you. 🙏
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I hope it is that turning point, at least to a degree. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want a return to 2e or anything (THAC0 *shudders*) but just a little more gris for the mill would be a refreshing change of pace.
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"Changing the Die’s Size. If you roll the highest number on your Psionic Talent die, it decreases by one die size after the roll. This represents you burning through your psionic energy. For example, if the die is a d6 and you roll a 6, it becomes a d4. If it’s a d4 and you roll a 4, it becomes unusable until you finish a long rest. Conversely, if you roll a 1 on your Psionic Talent die, it increases by one die size after the roll, up to its starting size. This represents you conserving psionic energy for later use. For example, if you roll a 1 on a d4, the die then becomes a d6."
I don't know what this means. The psionics features should be simplified and not be complicated.
What part of it don’t you understand? It seems extremely straightforward.
^See what I mean?
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Wow. Harsh.
Pretty godawful savage nerf to anything that wasn't slaughtered altogether. The 'Psionic Talent' mechanic punishing you for rolling well feels jank as hell. I get that they were looking for a unifying mechanic, but this is a weird and unintuitive unifying mechanic. They destroyed the poor Aberrant Mind, no more psychic-modeled spells, and now you need to take two separate feats before you can gain any off-class benefit from psionic ability?
Feels bad. Feels really bad, like a severe Stop-Having-Fun-Guys edict. Which...means we're probably pretty close to the eventual release version of psionic abilities. Sadness.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Yueri hates it by the way....
That’s okay. Individuals are allowed to have their own opinions.
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I guess I saw this part and thought you were insinuating they liked the system. Overall I think mixing Success with Failure and Failure with Success feels weird.
Yurei also said this too:
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I think what they wanted to do was get the idea of exertion without using slots or the times per rest mechanic. Personally I think it's rather elegant.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I couldn’t agree more.
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There was obviously a lot of creative effort spent on this UA, which makes me wonder why it feels so lackluster to me. For example, I appreciate the creativity behind the dice, though I suspect I won't like the gameplay experience.
Partway through the quest for absolute truth.
Don’t knock it ‘til you’ve tried it.
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They have overused that system, but it doesn't mean that you have to invent a new complicated system.
I don't like the new dice mechanic, agreeing with Yurei and the few others. It feels very not 5e, and not in a good way. It isn't a refreshing version of weird to me, more of a bad weird.
Like, if they want to introduce new mechanics, why did they abandon the Mystic, who's abilities are easier to understand than this.
I just don't like it.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms