It is EXACTLY what I wanted in a bard subclass...becoming a conduit for all the epic tales heard about in story & song, briefly manifesting them in a spiritual stage-play.
Think "The Chanter" class from Pillars of Eternity, and you pretty much conjure this subclass.
But I LOVE the implications of this from a roleplaying perspective...you are allowing these foreign spirits to invade your conciousness to bestow their effects...does your character remember this happening? Or are they "collecting" these spirits for their own ambition?
The customization with the spellcasting focus is cool, too...the gothic eeriness of the candle? The grim Shakespearan-ness of the skull? The carnival fortune-teller with a Tarot deck...?
The randomness is a bit peculiar...but fun from the roleplaying perspective.
Mechanically, perhaps it would be cool to select a fixed number of "tales" (similiar to the Battlemaster Fighter), and "learn" additional tales upon reaching a higher level, or being able to swap tales upon leveling up...it helps that these "tales" have no real negative repercussions for your party.
The "Undead" Warlock...yeah, we had an Undying Warlock already...
...but this subclass just screams "villain".
I find villains DELIGHTFUL.
Of course, the prospect of being a warlock with a direct line to a majorly evil being can provide interesting roleplaying...but it's more interesting when your Patron is perhaps a rival to your DM's major villain.
If your patron is Larloch, for example...maybe he's maneuvering your Warlock into opposing Vecna, who he considers to be a disruptive upstart.
Likewise, maybe your Patron is Orcus, and he is tasking your Warlock with sowing chaos within Asmodeus's ranks, knowing it will turn the tide of the Blood Wars...great for a Descent into Avernus campaign.
More than anything...the fact that they can be IMMUNE to fear, and potentially instill fear every round, is quite the debuff & image...it makes sense, too.
I mean...if your master is one of the most terrifying entities in the universe...nothing else should really scare you, right?
I adore the spirits Bard. Its kinda spooky, but only if you want it to be, and a bard that has abilities that allow you to focus on supporting is what i have always wanted. (And the fact that you aren’t required to focus on being a support is super awesome) Although 12 option things might be a little bit much.
I am severely underwhelmed in comparison by the Undead warlock, not to mention they couldn’t even have tried to be more creative in naming something at least a little but different sounding than Undying. I also am kind of confused as to why they are still doing the proficiency bonus thing in the play test. I was under the assumption that people didn't like it for class features?
I was also kind of expecting a but more content considering how long we have been waiting recently.
I adore the spirits Bard. Its kinda spooky, but only if you want it to be, and a bard that has abilities that allow you to focus on supporting is what i have always wanted. (And the fact that you aren’t required to focus on being a support is super awesome) Although 12 option things might be a little bit much.
I am severely underwhelmed in comparison by the Undead warlock, not to mention they couldn’t even have tried to be more creative in naming something at least a little but different sounding than Undying. I also am kind of confused as to why they are still doing the proficiency bonus thing in the play test. I was under the assumption that people didn't like it for class features?
I was also kind of expecting a but more content considering how long we have been waiting recently.
I love these subclasses, though both cross over: spirits and whispers bards, undead and undying. However, undying needs help. This new subclass will hopefully fix it, though it is very powerful. I think that spirits bard is very frontloaded, and that it drops off a bit at higher levels, but does still keep its potency. I love this UA, and I am hoping for a big book of subclasses.
On another note: who else wants some UA races? Satyr and leonin didn't get playtest time, and it would be cool for some new stuff.
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I mean, if any Warlock subclass was going to get animate dead, you would think this would be the one. (yeah I know CFV) On the upside, the dude who wanted to sleep in his bag of holding would be able to pull it off with this subclass.
Feature resets on 1d4 long rests... is that a new mechanism?
This has probably already been Said but the genie warlock used the same mechanic for its limited wish feature
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I like the idea of using the spirit form thing to regain 100% of hit points dealt from eneveration or vampiric touch, i donno just Think that might be neat
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Yes, Iamsposta is right. It would be 8d10, but I'm not sure if the Hex's damage dice would be doubled. Any thoughts?
Definitely agree that there's no reason for the Hex dice to also double. There are still only 4 attacks, each originally 1d10 force, and Hex adds 1d6 necrotic while the new feature adds 1d10 necrotic and changes the original damage type.
With the addition of Agonising Blast, each beam is 2d10 + 1d6 + Chamod, maxing out at a 4-beam attack dealing 8d10 + 4d6 + 20 with E[X] = 78 necrotic damage.
I really like this new Warlock subclass as kind of an alternative to the Undying (because this basically is just that). I definitely think the extra die of damage needs to be dropped. It could be turned into adding Charisma to the damage modifier of 1 roll of a spell you cast while still letting you turn things into necrotic (which isn't as good as force damage anyway and is much more thematic for Eldritch Blast).
I think the bard's balance off the back is really solid. The chart has some powerful higher rolls and if you reach level 14 you have to decide between using a resource to try to get a higher result or just spamming d6 until you get the low level one of your choice. Adding a d6 to healing and damage spells is fairly stronge, but I think that the ability to gain a Necromancy or Divination spell is limited enough that having both is fine.
Final note, I love the idea that this Warlock gets knocked down and just explodes. The they reappear. I'm imagining this grisly corpse explosion leading into your spirit reforming as you slowly regrow your flesh. I'm not sure why its limited to 1d4 long rests when other similar abilities aren't (Circle of Wildfire as an example). I guess because of the necrotic resistance.
Not liking the "exploding body" phrasing. Seems like it should be a shockwave of necrotic energy (maybe one that looks like a miniature mushroom cloud resembling spectral faces and bodies?) or something more thematically consistent than the warlock magically exploding and reassembling themselves.
And I could be missing the applications, but the 14th level feature "Spirit Projection" feels underwhelming.
Ideally, they'd "fix" the Undying patron by melding it with this new patron, taking the best of both and lessons from playtesting and feedback.
ETA: I also think they should scale back the Grave Touched feature to one additional die per turn, not per attack.
Final note, I love the idea that this Warlock gets knocked down and just explodes. The they reappear. I'm imagining this grisly corpse explosion leading into your spirit reforming as you slowly regrow your flesh. I'm not sure why its limited to 1d4 long rests when other similar abilities aren't (Circle of Wildfire as an example). I guess because of the necrotic resistance.
Right?
It sort of brings home this idea that you are the embodiment of a sheer force of terror...just when they think they're about to bring you down...you just release this horrible necrotic force. You're a real monster.
Or...maybe your Patron just (violently) won't let you die...don't wanna lose that mortal tool they've invested their time in, eh?
That sort of implication makes this subclass VERY interesting.
Okay i just made an pretty important Discovery on the 6th level spiritual focus feature: you can apply the bonus to rolls other than just damage and healing rolls, you could for instance apply it to the attack roll for fire bolt, and the bonus to the d8 roll for prismatic Ray to make an Target be hit by 2 rays, possibly add it to the percentile roll for the teleport spell, the grapple check from bigby's hand maybe, potentially maybe you could are the bonus to the intelegence saving throw you make against Contact other plane, or maybe it might work to influence where the victim of the infestation spell moves, the limits are nearly endless!!
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Am I reading this right that they want a Warlock subclass that spams Eldritch Blast *more*?
Also, that lvl14 ability needs a bit of tweaking I think, or at least some more explanation. Can your body AND spirit be targeted? If an enemy hits both with a fireball, do you take double damage? And literally what is the point of this ability beyond giving yourself a fly speed? You're still visible and targetable, so it sucks for scouting. Concentration means you need someone to drag your body along, otherwise one attack could result in you snapping back to wherever you stashed it (unless you are LITERALLY supposed to get into a bag of holding before using this). Resistance to 3 damage types seems pointless at level 14 because every non-trivial enemy is going to have better options anyway. It just seems dumb that the ultimate feature of the subclass is "gain a fly speed and massively inconvenience your party once per long rest."
Spiritual Focus 3rd- and 6th-level College of Spirits feature Your practice of contacting spirits can employ special tools. You can use the following objects as a spellcasting focus for your bard spells: a candle, a crystal ball, a talking board, a tarokka deck, or a skull. At 6th level, when you cast a bard spell that deals damage or restores hit points through the Spiritual Focus, roll a d6, and you gain a bonus to one roll of the spell equal to the number rolled.
And I could be missing the applications, but the 14th level feature "Spirit Projection" feels underwhelming.
Kind of like an at will casting of Etherealness that lasts for up to an hour at a time. Plus you get the subtle spell metamagic (including 0 gp material components) for free. Plus resistance to bludgeoning/slashing/piercing (including magical). And you can heal once per turn with any damaging cantrip, in this case Toll the Dead would be better than Eldritch Blast as it would cause 5d12 in a single damage roll as opposed to 4 rolls of 2d10.
Although when combined with a spell like Enervation, or Vampiric Touch you instead heal for 100% of necrotic damage dealt and with resistance to bludgeoning/slashing/piercing and with temporary HP granted by Form of Dread you're well suited to be right up in melee range.
Also: Class feature variants grants Warlocks access to Life Transference. Since "when you deal necrotic damage to a creature" doesn't exclude yourself the 6d8 necrotic damage which "can't be reduced in any way" (thus ignores resistance) is nevertheless effectively reduced because you get half of that necrotic damage right back to your HP a healing and can heal a party member for 12d8 points of healing. Actually that's 7d8 necrotic damage due to the Grave Touched feature, so you can heal a party member for 14d8.
This particular use might be broken as hell because I think you could technically reduce yourself to 0 HP with the initial necrotic damage from Life Transferrence, explode and come back with 1 hp, heal a party member and then be healed a bit yourself due to your 14th level feature.
Although the healing might prevent you from being considered reduced to 0 hp so you might not have enough "time" to explode. Still, even without exploding that's some good healing there.
Edit: It does have somewhat of a hidden cost though:
Your spirit and body gain resistance to bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage.
It sounds like both parts of you can be damaged independently, and I'm assuming share the same HP pool so I guess technically you're now "vulnerable" to AOE damage if both your body and spirit are hit with a fireball? Or would it still only count as a single instance of damage?
once during each of your turns when you deal necrotic damage to a creature, you regain hit points equal to half the amount of necrotic damage dealt.
..how would this work if you targeted a single creature with Eldritch Blast? Does the warlock regain hit points equal to half the amount of damage from one of the beams or all of them?
The Undead warlock definitely needs some work. at first glance, it feels like it's meant to be an offensive counter to undying, but it feels like it'd be much weaker than other patrons currently available. also, the expanded spell list doesn't really feel like it fits. I tried to think of what might be a better fit for this patron and came up with these spells:
also, as far as the abilities go, if they remain the same, there are quite a few places that need clarification on the number of times the ability can be used. but, it might be fun to have the abilities be more in line to ones available to higher level undead (such as charm, energy drain, or dreadful glare), albeit limited use or only shadows of the full power. Think of it like the patron giving the warlock a taste of the power that could be available to them. I'm not sure if something like this would make it overpowered, but it might be fun to roleplay.
The Undead warlock definitely needs some work. at first glance, it feels like it's meant to be an offensive counter to undying, but it feels like it'd be much weaker than other patrons currently available.
Are we really looking at the same subclass? It's easily one of the strongest warlock choices...
2 to 6 times per day 1d10+warlock levels temp hp (that alone is really good)
nearly unlimited ways to frighten enemies
immune to frightened condition
one damage die to every attack (Eldritch Blast or weapon attack if you choose Pact of Blade)
better Death Ward effect with aoe damage (once every 1d4 days)
The spells are good too... why do you think this class is underpowered? Perhaps hexblade is stronger... in my opinion it's one of the top 3 strongest subclasses for warlocks.
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Yes, Iamsposta is right. It would be 8d10, but I'm not sure if the Hex's damage dice would be doubled. Any thoughts?
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I LOVE the "College of Spirits" Bard.
It is EXACTLY what I wanted in a bard subclass...becoming a conduit for all the epic tales heard about in story & song, briefly manifesting them in a spiritual stage-play.
Think "The Chanter" class from Pillars of Eternity, and you pretty much conjure this subclass.
But I LOVE the implications of this from a roleplaying perspective...you are allowing these foreign spirits to invade your conciousness to bestow their effects...does your character remember this happening? Or are they "collecting" these spirits for their own ambition?
The customization with the spellcasting focus is cool, too...the gothic eeriness of the candle? The grim Shakespearan-ness of the skull? The carnival fortune-teller with a Tarot deck...?
The randomness is a bit peculiar...but fun from the roleplaying perspective.
Mechanically, perhaps it would be cool to select a fixed number of "tales" (similiar to the Battlemaster Fighter), and "learn" additional tales upon reaching a higher level, or being able to swap tales upon leveling up...it helps that these "tales" have no real negative repercussions for your party.
The "Undead" Warlock...yeah, we had an Undying Warlock already...
...but this subclass just screams "villain".
I find villains DELIGHTFUL.
Of course, the prospect of being a warlock with a direct line to a majorly evil being can provide interesting roleplaying...but it's more interesting when your Patron is perhaps a rival to your DM's major villain.
If your patron is Larloch, for example...maybe he's maneuvering your Warlock into opposing Vecna, who he considers to be a disruptive upstart.
Likewise, maybe your Patron is Orcus, and he is tasking your Warlock with sowing chaos within Asmodeus's ranks, knowing it will turn the tide of the Blood Wars...great for a Descent into Avernus campaign.
More than anything...the fact that they can be IMMUNE to fear, and potentially instill fear every round, is quite the debuff & image...it makes sense, too.
I mean...if your master is one of the most terrifying entities in the universe...nothing else should really scare you, right?
I adore the spirits Bard. Its kinda spooky, but only if you want it to be, and a bard that has abilities that allow you to focus on supporting is what i have always wanted. (And the fact that you aren’t required to focus on being a support is super awesome) Although 12 option things might be a little bit much.
I am severely underwhelmed in comparison by the Undead warlock, not to mention they couldn’t even have tried to be more creative in naming something at least a little but different sounding than Undying.
I also am kind of confused as to why they are still doing the proficiency bonus thing in the play test. I was under the assumption that people didn't like it for class features?
I was also kind of expecting a but more content considering how long we have been waiting recently.
I totally agree on all counts.
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I love these subclasses, though both cross over: spirits and whispers bards, undead and undying. However, undying needs help. This new subclass will hopefully fix it, though it is very powerful. I think that spirits bard is very frontloaded, and that it drops off a bit at higher levels, but does still keep its potency. I love this UA, and I am hoping for a big book of subclasses.
On another note: who else wants some UA races? Satyr and leonin didn't get playtest time, and it would be cool for some new stuff.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
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This has probably already been Said but the genie warlock used the same mechanic for its limited wish feature
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I like the idea of using the spirit form thing to regain 100% of hit points dealt from eneveration or vampiric touch, i donno just Think that might be neat
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Definitely agree that there's no reason for the Hex dice to also double. There are still only 4 attacks, each originally 1d10 force, and Hex adds 1d6 necrotic while the new feature adds 1d10 necrotic and changes the original damage type.
With the addition of Agonising Blast, each beam is 2d10 + 1d6 + Chamod, maxing out at a 4-beam attack dealing 8d10 + 4d6 + 20 with E[X] = 78 necrotic damage.
I really like this new Warlock subclass as kind of an alternative to the Undying (because this basically is just that). I definitely think the extra die of damage needs to be dropped. It could be turned into adding Charisma to the damage modifier of 1 roll of a spell you cast while still letting you turn things into necrotic (which isn't as good as force damage anyway and is much more thematic for Eldritch Blast).
I think the bard's balance off the back is really solid. The chart has some powerful higher rolls and if you reach level 14 you have to decide between using a resource to try to get a higher result or just spamming d6 until you get the low level one of your choice. Adding a d6 to healing and damage spells is fairly stronge, but I think that the ability to gain a Necromancy or Divination spell is limited enough that having both is fine.
Final note, I love the idea that this Warlock gets knocked down and just explodes. The they reappear. I'm imagining this grisly corpse explosion leading into your spirit reforming as you slowly regrow your flesh. I'm not sure why its limited to 1d4 long rests when other similar abilities aren't (Circle of Wildfire as an example). I guess because of the necrotic resistance.
Not liking the "exploding body" phrasing. Seems like it should be a shockwave of necrotic energy (maybe one that looks like a miniature mushroom cloud resembling spectral faces and bodies?) or something more thematically consistent than the warlock magically exploding and reassembling themselves.
And I could be missing the applications, but the 14th level feature "Spirit Projection" feels underwhelming.
Ideally, they'd "fix" the Undying patron by melding it with this new patron, taking the best of both and lessons from playtesting and feedback.
ETA: I also think they should scale back the Grave Touched feature to one additional die per turn, not per attack.
Right?
It sort of brings home this idea that you are the embodiment of a sheer force of terror...just when they think they're about to bring you down...you just release this horrible necrotic force. You're a real monster.
Or...maybe your Patron just (violently) won't let you die...don't wanna lose that mortal tool they've invested their time in, eh?
That sort of implication makes this subclass VERY interesting.
Okay i just made an pretty important Discovery on the 6th level spiritual focus feature: you can apply the bonus to rolls other than just damage and healing rolls, you could for instance apply it to the attack roll for fire bolt, and the bonus to the d8 roll for prismatic Ray to make an Target be hit by 2 rays, possibly add it to the percentile roll for the teleport spell, the grapple check from bigby's hand maybe, potentially maybe you could are the bonus to the intelegence saving throw you make against Contact other plane, or maybe it might work to influence where the victim of the infestation spell moves, the limits are nearly endless!!
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Am I reading this right that they want a Warlock subclass that spams Eldritch Blast *more*?
Also, that lvl14 ability needs a bit of tweaking I think, or at least some more explanation. Can your body AND spirit be targeted? If an enemy hits both with a fireball, do you take double damage? And literally what is the point of this ability beyond giving yourself a fly speed? You're still visible and targetable, so it sucks for scouting. Concentration means you need someone to drag your body along, otherwise one attack could result in you snapping back to wherever you stashed it (unless you are LITERALLY supposed to get into a bag of holding before using this). Resistance to 3 damage types seems pointless at level 14 because every non-trivial enemy is going to have better options anyway. It just seems dumb that the ultimate feature of the subclass is "gain a fly speed and massively inconvenience your party once per long rest."
You’re gonna hafta explain that one to me:
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Kind of like an at will casting of Etherealness that lasts for up to an hour at a time.
Plus you get the subtle spell metamagic (including 0 gp material components) for free.
Plus resistance to bludgeoning/slashing/piercing (including magical).
And you can heal once per turn with any damaging cantrip, in this case Toll the Dead would be better than Eldritch Blast as it would cause 5d12 in a single damage roll as opposed to 4 rolls of 2d10.
Although when combined with a spell like Enervation, or Vampiric Touch you instead heal for 100% of necrotic damage dealt and with resistance to bludgeoning/slashing/piercing and with temporary HP granted by Form of Dread you're well suited to be right up in melee range.
Also: Class feature variants grants Warlocks access to Life Transference. Since "when you deal necrotic damage to a creature" doesn't exclude yourself the 6d8 necrotic damage which "can't be reduced in any way" (thus ignores resistance) is nevertheless effectively reduced because you get half of that necrotic damage right back to your HP a healing and can heal a party member for 12d8 points of healing. Actually that's 7d8 necrotic damage due to the Grave Touched feature, so you can heal a party member for 14d8.
This particular use might be broken as hell because I think you could technically reduce yourself to 0 HP with the initial necrotic damage from Life Transferrence, explode and come back with 1 hp, heal a party member and then be healed a bit yourself due to your 14th level feature.
Although the healing might prevent you from being considered reduced to 0 hp so you might not have enough "time" to explode. Still, even without exploding that's some good healing there.
Edit: It does have somewhat of a hidden cost though:
It sounds like both parts of you can be damaged independently, and I'm assuming share the same HP pool so I guess technically you're now "vulnerable" to AOE damage if both your body and spirit are hit with a fireball? Or would it still only count as a single instance of damage?
So this part of Spirit Projection:
..how would this work if you targeted a single creature with Eldritch Blast? Does the warlock regain hit points equal to half the amount of damage from one of the beams or all of them?
One of them. Each attack is resolved individually RAW.
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The Undead warlock definitely needs some work. at first glance, it feels like it's meant to be an offensive counter to undying, but it feels like it'd be much weaker than other patrons currently available. also, the expanded spell list doesn't really feel like it fits. I tried to think of what might be a better fit for this patron and came up with these spells:
1st: bane, inflict wounds
2nd: blindness/deafness, alter self
3rd: animate dead, revivify
4th: greater invisibility, phantasmal killer
5th: raise dead, dominate person
also, as far as the abilities go, if they remain the same, there are quite a few places that need clarification on the number of times the ability can be used. but, it might be fun to have the abilities be more in line to ones available to higher level undead (such as charm, energy drain, or dreadful glare), albeit limited use or only shadows of the full power. Think of it like the patron giving the warlock a taste of the power that could be available to them. I'm not sure if something like this would make it overpowered, but it might be fun to roleplay.
I like that list of spells, but Revivify seems out of place
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Are we really looking at the same subclass? It's easily one of the strongest warlock choices...
The spells are good too... why do you think this class is underpowered? Perhaps hexblade is stronger... in my opinion it's one of the top 3 strongest subclasses for warlocks.