The dual creature type in these lineages seems to accomplish nothing but give you a bunch of new vulnerabilities.
That might be an intentional semi-balancing factor against some of strengths of the lineage. The price a Dhampir pays for always on spider climb, etc.
Could be, but it still makes me twitchy.
If it wasn’t enough to make you twitchy, it wouldn’t be balanced. If it was automatic a good choice, it would be no choice at all.
I will say, I don’t hate the floating ASBs nearly as much with these races because of these additional vulnerabilities. Honestly, I probably wouldn’t hate this UA nearly so much if it weren’t for the the official announcement about the future of D&D. This is the first place I have actually liked the PB scaling on an ability. And these Races don’t necessarily need “cultural features” of their own, but I do wish it said that they take the cultural traits of their non-vampire heritage.* I also wish that the Ability Score Bonuses were the main Ability from the non-vampire heritage and a floating +1. That would have at least made these compatible with the PHB RAW.
*(Or, if they were raised in a different comunity then that culture’s traits. I mean, if your an Elf raised in a Dwarvish comunity then of course you should have Dwarvish cultural traits. That’s part of why I hate this lineage system so much, it could have been both simpler and better.)
Honestly, I don't find any of these character options really interesting even without taking the vulnerabilities into account.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I find Gothic Horror to be terminally dull, and Dhamphyrs in particular are such a freaking cliche. If I wanted a game with that stuff in it, I'd play World of Darkness.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I find Gothic Horror to be terminally dull, and Dhamphyrs in particular are such a freaking cliche. If I wanted a game with that stuff in it, I'd play World of Darkness.
I feel kind of similarly ambivalent about Gothic horror, but I appreciate the concepts. It'll be cool if they adapt this further for other "genres" of character. Maybe we can get like, an updated genasi lineage, or like a lineage from each of the planes for different flavors of plane-touched beyond tiefling, aasimar, or genasi.
Some kind of lycanthrope lineage would be cool too since the monster manual opens up players to catching lycanthropy without providing rules for it, though that's taking us back in the direction of Gothic horror.
I could also see them doing something like a Simic Hybrid as a lineage, but make it non-setting specific and you're just the result of crazy Mage experiments.
I find Gothic Horror to be terminally dull, and Dhamphyrs in particular are such a freaking cliche. If I wanted a game with that stuff in it, I'd play World of Darkness.
I feel kind of similarly ambivalent about Gothic horror, but I appreciate the concepts. It'll be cool if they adapt this further for other "genres" of character. Maybe we can get like, an updated genasi lineage, or like a lineage from each of the planes for different flavors of plane-touched beyond tiefling, aasimar, or genasi.
Some kind of lycanthrope lineage would be cool too since the monster manual opens up players to catching lycanthropy without providing rules for it, though that's taking us back in the direction of Gothic horror.
I could also see them doing something like a Simic Hybrid as a lineage, but make it non-setting specific and you're just the result of crazy Mage experiments.
There's also Eladrin and the other planar elves as plane-touched, but why couldn't we have Fey Dwarves?
I find Gothic Horror to be terminally dull, and Dhamphyrs in particular are such a freaking cliche. If I wanted a game with that stuff in it, I'd play World of Darkness.
I feel kind of similarly ambivalent about Gothic horror, but I appreciate the concepts. It'll be cool if they adapt this further for other "genres" of character. Maybe we can get like, an updated genasi lineage, or like a lineage from each of the planes for different flavors of plane-touched beyond tiefling, aasimar, or genasi.
Some kind of lycanthrope lineage would be cool too since the monster manual opens up players to catching lycanthropy without providing rules for it, though that's taking us back in the direction of Gothic horror.
I could also see them doing something like a Simic Hybrid as a lineage, but make it non-setting specific and you're just the result of crazy Mage experiments.
There's also Eladrin and the other planar elves as plane-touched, but why couldn't we have Fey Dwarves?
I don't get why people are complaining so much about this.
With Humans and Dragons making half-races out of nearly everything that has a pulse, and the Planetouched races being a thing, this Lineage concept just feels like the natural next step.
As Yurei1453 wrote, munchkins are gonna munchkin. Could this be used to make an OP character? Sure, but D&D is not the type of game where that matters that much, anyways. If anything, it could make work a little harder on the DM to balance encounters... And even then there's some monsters that are outright broken imo, so even then is not that big of a deal.
D&D should be about the character and the journey you make with them, not how powerful that character is or not. If a player want to play a Shounen Anime Protagonist, that's on them, and if that player finds a DM and the rest of the table are cool with it, then sure why not. It's just harmless fun, let them be. It's all about the experience and what the group want out of the game.
The D&D you like playing is not going to stop existing just because there's this person wanting to have silly fun with their min-maxed Half-Orc/Half-Elf Dhampir (who's also quarter Hag on their maternal grandmother side. Somehow.). Relax.
Yeah, this has brought about a very divisive topic for some of the Forum goers.
And it sucks because it's not the first time it happens. People can get really intense about things like this and I just don't get it.
Play/DM your games however you want: That's what I believe, period. Problems only start when there's this one jerk or more who's ruining the fun for everyone else, or when people at the table have different ideas on how they want to play.
I'm not going to be wasting my time with that flame war, I'd rather be happy.
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Active Campaigns:
Raiketsu's Princes of the Apocalypse (DM: Raiketsu) - Shautha: Half-Orc, Level 3 Druid (Circle of Land: Mountain) ⟆ Monster Misfits Adventures (DM: ShadIn) - Vrakskan Onyxadyn: Dragonborn, Level 3 Barbarian (Path of the Ancestral Guardian) ⟆ Rime of the Frostmaiden (DM: Sarvaeth) - Rildayne Uln'hyrr: Drow Elf, Level 1 Warlock of the Archfey
Yeah the main issue I can actually see people upset about is the fact the "optional" way of handling race/linage is no longer going to be optional for new material.
I personally LOVE the way they are going and fully support it but I can also see people point to this and be like "See?? They said it would be optional but its not!"
And....they are right. Its not optional anymore. Which is kinda going against what they said....but you could always lock ASI changes if you wanted as a DM but I can understand the frustration on their end.
Yeah, this has brought about a very divisive topic for some of the Forum goers.
And it sucks because it's not the first time it happens. People can get really intense about things like this and I just don't get it.
Play/DM your games however you want: That's what I believe, period. Problems only start when there's this one jerk or more who's ruining the fun for everyone else, or when people at the table have different ideas on how they want to play.
I'm not going to be wasting my time with that flame war, I'd rather be happy.
It's unfortunately the way things go in a community, especially one as large and as varied as D&D. People have opinions, sometimes very strong ones. Some can debate respectfully, others get to heated and it devolves into a shouting match.
I have my issues with these lineages and WotC's implementation on this new direction of theirs that I have posted in that thread, but I also don't take issue with those who are happy because I understand that not everything WotC releases is for me. I'm at least willing to wait and see how things progress.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Its like opposing sports teams fighting. Except instead of liking opposing teams, we're basically edition warring (Tasha being, like, 5.5e versus vanilla 5.0e). There's always hate with new editions.
Yeah the main issue I can actually see people upset about is the fact the "optional" way of handling race/linage is no longer going to be optional for new material.
There's a difference between 'optional for players' and 'optional for writers'. This will be the new paradigm for how they write things up.
Yeah the main issue I can actually see people upset about is the fact the "optional" way of handling race/linage is no longer going to be optional for new material.
There's a difference between 'optional for players' and 'optional for writers'. This will be the new paradigm for how they write things up.
Yeah thats the thing...if you want use future linages you will have to homebrew what ASI locks you have in place as they will not assign them in the future.
This makes it not "optional" for DMs/Players either as they do have to make changes to counter act the new system.
Granted literally everything is tech. optional in this game and I do not argue against that....more that it's the new norm and Tasha's rules on ASI are not "optional" but the norm.
Yeah the main issue I can actually see people upset about is the fact the "optional" way of handling race/linage is no longer going to be optional for new material.
There's a difference between 'optional for players' and 'optional for writers'. This will be the new paradigm for how they write things up.
Unfortunately, that only gives off the impression that these optional rules aren't really optional if every piece of UA and published material going forward references Tasha's as the foundation for them. I'm not against Tasha's being the standard but they went out of their way to say these rules and features were optional and won't affect normal content because they are optional. So seeing this new UA for lineages with the text box in the Design Note: Changes to Racial Traits saying that they will be using Tasha's model for future racial/lineage/cultural content in all future UA is hard to ignore.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Honestly, I don't find any of these character options really interesting even without taking the vulnerabilities into account.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Really?!? I actually like them all. I like these three Races, it’s their statements about the future of D&D that I object to.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
I find Gothic Horror to be terminally dull, and Dhamphyrs in particular are such a freaking cliche. If I wanted a game with that stuff in it, I'd play World of Darkness.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I feel kind of similarly ambivalent about Gothic horror, but I appreciate the concepts. It'll be cool if they adapt this further for other "genres" of character. Maybe we can get like, an updated genasi lineage, or like a lineage from each of the planes for different flavors of plane-touched beyond tiefling, aasimar, or genasi.
Some kind of lycanthrope lineage would be cool too since the monster manual opens up players to catching lycanthropy without providing rules for it, though that's taking us back in the direction of Gothic horror.
I could also see them doing something like a Simic Hybrid as a lineage, but make it non-setting specific and you're just the result of crazy Mage experiments.
There's also Eladrin and the other planar elves as plane-touched, but why couldn't we have Fey Dwarves?
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
Muchanus-touched Dwarves would be rad
Woo! Vampires, witches and frankensteins! Bad a@#$. Couple that with tieflings and shifters, and we're hitting the big horror races! I'm loving it!
super stoked for this! Hope itll be available to try out on this platform, or someone makes it and puts it out for everyone to use haha either or
Silly question!
Inspired by all these two-types...
Dwarves as Constructs / Humanoids and elves as Fey / Humanoids. Would there be hate?
Yes. There will be hate for anything and everything that exists.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
I don't get why people are complaining so much about this.
With Humans and Dragons making half-races out of nearly everything that has a pulse, and the Planetouched races being a thing, this Lineage concept just feels like the natural next step.
As Yurei1453 wrote, munchkins are gonna munchkin. Could this be used to make an OP character? Sure, but D&D is not the type of game where that matters that much, anyways. If anything, it could make work a little harder on the DM to balance encounters... And even then there's some monsters that are outright broken imo, so even then is not that big of a deal.
D&D should be about the character and the journey you make with them, not how powerful that character is or not. If a player want to play a Shounen Anime Protagonist, that's on them, and if that player finds a DM and the rest of the table are cool with it, then sure why not. It's just harmless fun, let them be. It's all about the experience and what the group want out of the game.
The D&D you like playing is not going to stop existing just because there's this person wanting to have silly fun with their min-maxed Half-Orc/Half-Elf Dhampir (who's also quarter Hag on their maternal grandmother side. Somehow.). Relax.
Active Campaigns:
Raiketsu's Princes of the Apocalypse (DM: Raiketsu) - Shautha: Half-Orc, Level 3 Druid (Circle of Land: Mountain) ⟆ Monster Misfits Adventures (DM: ShadIn) - Vrakskan Onyxadyn: Dragonborn, Level 3 Barbarian (Path of the Ancestral Guardian) ⟆ Rime of the Frostmaiden (DM: Sarvaeth) - Rildayne Uln'hyrr: Drow Elf, Level 1 Warlock of the Archfey
RachelEvening's Tyranny of the Dragon Queen - DM
RachelEvening's Tomb of Annihilation - DM
If you want to know why people are angry, go to General Discussion and find the flame war.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Yeah, this has brought about a very divisive topic for some of the Forum goers.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
And it sucks because it's not the first time it happens. People can get really intense about things like this and I just don't get it.
Play/DM your games however you want: That's what I believe, period. Problems only start when there's this one jerk or more who's ruining the fun for everyone else, or when people at the table have different ideas on how they want to play.
I'm not going to be wasting my time with that flame war, I'd rather be happy.
Active Campaigns:
Raiketsu's Princes of the Apocalypse (DM: Raiketsu) - Shautha: Half-Orc, Level 3 Druid (Circle of Land: Mountain) ⟆ Monster Misfits Adventures (DM: ShadIn) - Vrakskan Onyxadyn: Dragonborn, Level 3 Barbarian (Path of the Ancestral Guardian) ⟆ Rime of the Frostmaiden (DM: Sarvaeth) - Rildayne Uln'hyrr: Drow Elf, Level 1 Warlock of the Archfey
RachelEvening's Tyranny of the Dragon Queen - DM
RachelEvening's Tomb of Annihilation - DM
Yeah the main issue I can actually see people upset about is the fact the "optional" way of handling race/linage is no longer going to be optional for new material.
I personally LOVE the way they are going and fully support it but I can also see people point to this and be like "See?? They said it would be optional but its not!"
And....they are right. Its not optional anymore. Which is kinda going against what they said....but you could always lock ASI changes if you wanted as a DM but I can understand the frustration on their end.
It's unfortunately the way things go in a community, especially one as large and as varied as D&D. People have opinions, sometimes very strong ones. Some can debate respectfully, others get to heated and it devolves into a shouting match.
I have my issues with these lineages and WotC's implementation on this new direction of theirs that I have posted in that thread, but I also don't take issue with those who are happy because I understand that not everything WotC releases is for me. I'm at least willing to wait and see how things progress.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills
Its like opposing sports teams fighting. Except instead of liking opposing teams, we're basically edition warring (Tasha being, like, 5.5e versus vanilla 5.0e). There's always hate with new editions.
There's a difference between 'optional for players' and 'optional for writers'. This will be the new paradigm for how they write things up.
Yeah thats the thing...if you want use future linages you will have to homebrew what ASI locks you have in place as they will not assign them in the future.
This makes it not "optional" for DMs/Players either as they do have to make changes to counter act the new system.
Granted literally everything is tech. optional in this game and I do not argue against that....more that it's the new norm and Tasha's rules on ASI are not "optional" but the norm.
Unfortunately, that only gives off the impression that these optional rules aren't really optional if every piece of UA and published material going forward references Tasha's as the foundation for them. I'm not against Tasha's being the standard but they went out of their way to say these rules and features were optional and won't affect normal content because they are optional. So seeing this new UA for lineages with the text box in the Design Note: Changes to Racial Traits saying that they will be using Tasha's model for future racial/lineage/cultural content in all future UA is hard to ignore.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
Characters for Tenebris Sine Fine
RoughCoronet's Greater Wills