First post here so apologies if it's in the wrong place.
I'm a very new and recent DM to D&D5e, currently working our way though LMOP and then probably Out Of The Abyss.
We are mainly playing for my partner's 13 year old son who is autistic.
He has an incredible imagination in describing things, events, what he wants to do and what he'd like to do. However, we have found that when it comes to understanding where he is and the results of his actions, he works best with a visual representation.
I drew up some inch square maps and bought some cheap "Ludo" type makers for PC's and NPCs that have really added so much to our campaign. It's clear we should go for miniatures and, with some experience already with 3d printing, Im going to sort out a set of OpenForge tiles.
Im all good with the pros and cons of OpenForge tiles and printing, however I do have one big question...
How much of the the dungeon do I show at any point?
Im currently playing with a large, physical dungeon map, that I've covered with post-it and glue tacked sheets. As the PCs explore, we peel off more and more of the map that they would then be able to see.
I like this format. It adds to the storyline and with the young lad having a brilliant imagination as well as an inquisitve and resourceful mind, it saves him running ahead and trying to out think the dungeon with too much information.
So for those who use dungeon tiles, how much do you show your players and how practical is it to "slot in" rooms as they are discovered, or is there a way of "fogging" or masking each room that you have worked out?
All thoughts and comments gratefully recieved. Thank you!
At a glance it feels like a build as you go situation since unintentional metagaming is actively a concern. For context, I've never used terrain and have only done the dry erase on a mat style of map.
If there is a major set piece location it may be worth building what I'll call boss arenas ahead of time.
When using dungeon tiles which are pre-printed 6"x6" images of dungeon rooms and corridors (and similar tiles for wilderness and such), I would lay out only what the characters have seen in larger dungeons. As they move around the area, stuff that would "slide off the table" generally gets removed until the characters go back that way in a form that would actually need the tiles on the table.
As an example of what I mean by that last bit, if the party had skipped a section of the east part of the dungeon and wanted to head back there after finishing the west side, if I knew nothing interesting was going to happen on the route between, there's no need to place down tiles that are only going to be picked up. I just place the tiles that matter on the east part of the dungeon.
It worked well with me placing down one or more tiles to represent how far they could see in a corridor, or the room whose door they just entered. Because of how the tiles are printed, I sometimes revealed some extra information, like that the players could see that the room beyond a door was small or round or whatever because it was partially printed on the tile. If your physical prints are not tied together like the tiles are, you won't have that problem.
For a small dungeon that will fit on the the table (which I often aim for now as we don't enjoy huge dungeons as much), I will put all of the tiles on the table face down. I flip them up when the part opens the door. If there isn't dungeon in an area, I will still put something face down so that the whole space is full and the players don't know for sure where rooms are. I will also do things like have a boss or secret area off the main section which is not represented by face-down tiles, and is only revealed if discovered.
You can't do that with physical scenery, but I saw a setup where the DM was stepping away and then returning with each new room or section. They had them on either thick cardboard or thin wood. I believe the DM was stepping into another room off camera where they had either the pieces or just the whole dungeon set up, but it could have been that they had parts in a closet or cabinet.
Given a choice, with the bulk of physical miniatures, I would aim to create smaller dungeons which fit on the table. This simplifies setup, how much is revealed, and how many pieces you have to print. If your group wants to be exploring large, labyrinth dungeons, you are probably going to have to set up and tear down as you go.
Or just sketch out or theater of the mind the map except when it comes to encounters, and then have set pieces built for just those areas.
(Most of my tiles are from Skeleton Key Games on drivethrurpg.com. I printed them on card stock in color. I use thumbnails of the tiles in an art program to create some maps, otherwise I just doodle it out on a piece of paper. In both cases I note which tiles I need where.)
I use a mix of 3d printed terrain and Dwarven Forge for my "battle scenes" but I only bring out a map when it is time to roll initiative. I find that a lot of players get too distracted with moving the little figures around like it is a board game.
We have done the "hide map areas with paper" thing before, but personally I like to stick to smaller maps that I switch in and out based on where the party is at a given point. I do think the different approaches have a very different psychological/meta impact on the players - for instance appearing in the corner of a huge covered map still conveys an idea of the size of the dungeon, which you may or may not want the players to know.
As for how much detail on the maps, that tends to just be limited by how much prep time I have. I love big set pieces, and have constructed walls, stairs, bridges, ships, etc. out of cardboard or wood. I guess the other limitation can be view lines - I love a forest full of miniature trees, but it can be difficult for players to move/see their own minis in a dense forest.
Online play has made most of this irrelevant lately, but I'm looking forward to being able to play in person again in the not-too-distant future.
I heard about a fellow with dungeon terrain that used a "lazy Susan" (rotating table about 10" in diameter) to show the active room. The players and the DM could turn it around for any point of view. I believe showing the active room sounds like a good approach. I don't have terrain myself. I use a dry erase mat when we can get together in person. I also think your peel off posts its is a good approach. Good luck.
I rarely show players a whole dungeon map. I sort of believe in the old school idea that players need to draw their own map if they want one.
But if I were to, I'd probably use battle maps on the scale of rooms, and a "minimap" on a smaller scale, and cover it with sheets of paper until explored. Parts of the dungeon where combat isn't likely to occur don't need detail down to the 5' x 5' square.
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Hi folks,
First post here so apologies if it's in the wrong place.
I'm a very new and recent DM to D&D5e, currently working our way though LMOP and then probably Out Of The Abyss.
We are mainly playing for my partner's 13 year old son who is autistic.
He has an incredible imagination in describing things, events, what he wants to do and what he'd like to do.
However, we have found that when it comes to understanding where he is and the results of his actions, he works best with a visual representation.
I drew up some inch square maps and bought some cheap "Ludo" type makers for PC's and NPCs that have really added so much to our campaign.
It's clear we should go for miniatures and, with some experience already with 3d printing, Im going to sort out a set of OpenForge tiles.
Im all good with the pros and cons of OpenForge tiles and printing, however I do have one big question...
How much of the the dungeon do I show at any point?
Im currently playing with a large, physical dungeon map, that I've covered with post-it and glue tacked sheets.
As the PCs explore, we peel off more and more of the map that they would then be able to see.
I like this format. It adds to the storyline and with the young lad having a brilliant imagination as well as an inquisitve and resourceful mind, it saves him running ahead and trying to out think the dungeon with too much information.
So for those who use dungeon tiles, how much do you show your players and how practical is it to "slot in" rooms as they are discovered, or is there a way of "fogging" or masking each room that you have worked out?
All thoughts and comments gratefully recieved. Thank you!
At a glance it feels like a build as you go situation since unintentional metagaming is actively a concern. For context, I've never used terrain and have only done the dry erase on a mat style of map.
If there is a major set piece location it may be worth building what I'll call boss arenas ahead of time.
When using dungeon tiles which are pre-printed 6"x6" images of dungeon rooms and corridors (and similar tiles for wilderness and such), I would lay out only what the characters have seen in larger dungeons. As they move around the area, stuff that would "slide off the table" generally gets removed until the characters go back that way in a form that would actually need the tiles on the table.
As an example of what I mean by that last bit, if the party had skipped a section of the east part of the dungeon and wanted to head back there after finishing the west side, if I knew nothing interesting was going to happen on the route between, there's no need to place down tiles that are only going to be picked up. I just place the tiles that matter on the east part of the dungeon.
It worked well with me placing down one or more tiles to represent how far they could see in a corridor, or the room whose door they just entered. Because of how the tiles are printed, I sometimes revealed some extra information, like that the players could see that the room beyond a door was small or round or whatever because it was partially printed on the tile. If your physical prints are not tied together like the tiles are, you won't have that problem.
For a small dungeon that will fit on the the table (which I often aim for now as we don't enjoy huge dungeons as much), I will put all of the tiles on the table face down. I flip them up when the part opens the door. If there isn't dungeon in an area, I will still put something face down so that the whole space is full and the players don't know for sure where rooms are. I will also do things like have a boss or secret area off the main section which is not represented by face-down tiles, and is only revealed if discovered.
You can't do that with physical scenery, but I saw a setup where the DM was stepping away and then returning with each new room or section. They had them on either thick cardboard or thin wood. I believe the DM was stepping into another room off camera where they had either the pieces or just the whole dungeon set up, but it could have been that they had parts in a closet or cabinet.
Given a choice, with the bulk of physical miniatures, I would aim to create smaller dungeons which fit on the table. This simplifies setup, how much is revealed, and how many pieces you have to print. If your group wants to be exploring large, labyrinth dungeons, you are probably going to have to set up and tear down as you go.
Or just sketch out or theater of the mind the map except when it comes to encounters, and then have set pieces built for just those areas.
(Most of my tiles are from Skeleton Key Games on drivethrurpg.com. I printed them on card stock in color. I use thumbnails of the tiles in an art program to create some maps, otherwise I just doodle it out on a piece of paper. In both cases I note which tiles I need where.)
I use a mix of 3d printed terrain and Dwarven Forge for my "battle scenes" but I only bring out a map when it is time to roll initiative. I find that a lot of players get too distracted with moving the little figures around like it is a board game.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
We have done the "hide map areas with paper" thing before, but personally I like to stick to smaller maps that I switch in and out based on where the party is at a given point. I do think the different approaches have a very different psychological/meta impact on the players - for instance appearing in the corner of a huge covered map still conveys an idea of the size of the dungeon, which you may or may not want the players to know.
As for how much detail on the maps, that tends to just be limited by how much prep time I have. I love big set pieces, and have constructed walls, stairs, bridges, ships, etc. out of cardboard or wood. I guess the other limitation can be view lines - I love a forest full of miniature trees, but it can be difficult for players to move/see their own minis in a dense forest.
Online play has made most of this irrelevant lately, but I'm looking forward to being able to play in person again in the not-too-distant future.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I heard about a fellow with dungeon terrain that used a "lazy Susan" (rotating table about 10" in diameter) to show the active room. The players and the DM could turn it around for any point of view. I believe showing the active room sounds like a good approach. I don't have terrain myself. I use a dry erase mat when we can get together in person. I also think your peel off posts its is a good approach. Good luck.
I rarely show players a whole dungeon map. I sort of believe in the old school idea that players need to draw their own map if they want one.
But if I were to, I'd probably use battle maps on the scale of rooms, and a "minimap" on a smaller scale, and cover it with sheets of paper until explored. Parts of the dungeon where combat isn't likely to occur don't need detail down to the 5' x 5' square.