So first, can you forgo the charisma save to be possessed by a magic jar? (Trying to use command undead to take over a Mummy Lord for that 24hr resurrection, it's like diet lich and completely legal)
Then can you use death ward to keep a magic jar possessed body? Take over body, find nearest 100+ft cliff, throw phylactery and your corpse off the cliff and back up, you die but you don't so now this is your body.
Anything else you guys wanna add for shenanigans, magic jar seems like an underrated spell? Couldn't be a lich without becoming an NPC so we're getting creative, I guess I can keep the majic jar and say it's my phylactery. (Otherwise it's my canopic jar body that makes a mummy for me to inhabit every day if I don't have one)
So first, can you forgo the charisma save to be possessed by a magic jar? (Trying to use command undead to take over a Mummy Lord for that 24hr resurrection, it's like diet lich and completely legal)
Then can you use death ward to keep a magic jar possessed body? Take over body, find nearest 100+ft cliff, throw phylactery and your corpse off the cliff and back up, you die but you don't so now this is your body.
Anything else you guys wanna add for shenanigans, magic jar seems like an underrated spell? Couldn't be a lich without becoming an NPC so we're getting creative, I guess I can keep the majic jar and say it's my phylactery. (Otherwise it's my canopic jar body that makes a mummy for me to inhabit every day if I don't have one)
You can't willingly fail a saving throw unless the spell or effect (or DM) says otherwise.
Mind control magic is not intended to cause creatures to be willing targets for spells. Imagine if this was turned on your character, and maybe you'll understand why.
If you go to 1 HP from Death Ward, you don't die. You've been warded against death. That's... The point.
There is no way to permanently become a monster without your DM explicitly choosing to help you. You're never going to find a fully player-facing RAW method to become a lich or whatever.
So first, can you forgo the charisma save to be possessed by a magic jar? (Trying to use command undead to take over a Mummy Lord for that 24hr resurrection, it's like diet lich and completely legal)
Then can you use death ward to keep a magic jar possessed body? Take over body, find nearest 100+ft cliff, throw phylactery and your corpse off the cliff and back up, you die but you don't so now this is your body.
Anything else you guys wanna add for shenanigans, magic jar seems like an underrated spell? Couldn't be a lich without becoming an NPC so we're getting creative, I guess I can keep the majic jar and say it's my phylactery. (Otherwise it's my canopic jar body that makes a mummy for me to inhabit every day if I don't have one)
You can't willingly fail a saving throw unless the spell or effect (or DM) says otherwise.
Mind control magic is not intended to cause creatures to be willing targets for spells. Imagine if this was turned on your character, and maybe you'll understand why.
If you go to 1 HP from Death Ward, you don't die. You've been warded against death. That's... The point.
There is no way to permanently become a monster without your DM explicitly choosing to help you. You're never going to find a fully player-facing RAW method to become a lich or whatever.
Shame about Command Undead but at least it won't be hostile while I do this buffoonerey. You seem to have misunderstood, let me reiterate.
Magic Jar "If the container is destroyed or the spell ends, your soul immediately returns to your body. If your body is more than 100 feet away from you, or if your body is dead when you attempt to return to it, you die. If another creature's soul is in the container when it is destroyed, the creature's soul returns to its body if the body is alive and within 100 feet. Otherwise, that creature dies."
I am is 100 ft way from the Jar and my comatose body. The spell has ended. The creature cannot return to its original body and I can't return to mine.
Death Ward "If the spell is still in effect when the target is subjected to an effect that would kill it instantaneously without dealing damage, that effect is instead negated against the target, and the spell ends."
So I am subjected to a death effect for not returning to my original body. But I can't die. So I'm alive and magic jar is over and this is my new body
(DM is working with me but I have to figure out how it works mechanically no homebrew, he's not just giving it to me. I could have taken Tenebrous' dark gift but that is where we have the issue of being an NPC by RAW. I'm an end game wizard my character has explored the inner workings of magic and comes up with a plan for Lichdom based on research into undead bla bla bla, I just gotta figure out what it is he learned and how to implement it as a player so my DM doesn't have to fudge anything just give me stats like magic jar and forgo that its a spell like described now I can't be dispelled)
Ah, I think I get it. The idea is to have the impact break the jar, forcing your soul back into your body, but since your body is at the bottom of the cliff and dead, your soul can't return to it. This would cause you to die, but you have Death Ward, so you don't.
I think this works as written. There's an argument to be made that the concept here is less that the spell kills you, and more that the spell is the thing keeping you alive, so after the Death Ward saves you momentarily you might just die again, but that's only going by implied fiction and even then it's debatable. If your DM is on your side, it seems like this ought to work.
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I declare shenanigans!
So first, can you forgo the charisma save to be possessed by a magic jar? (Trying to use command undead to take over a Mummy Lord for that 24hr resurrection, it's like diet lich and completely legal)
Then can you use death ward to keep a magic jar possessed body? Take over body, find nearest 100+ft cliff, throw phylactery and your corpse off the cliff and back up, you die but you don't so now this is your body.
Anything else you guys wanna add for shenanigans, magic jar seems like an underrated spell? Couldn't be a lich without becoming an NPC so we're getting creative, I guess I can keep the majic jar and say it's my phylactery. (Otherwise it's my canopic jar body that makes a mummy for me to inhabit every day if I don't have one)
Not sure I understand the Death Ward one, how would jumping off a cliff and not dying (instead dropping to 1 hitpoint) let you keep the body?
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You can't willingly fail a saving throw unless the spell or effect (or DM) says otherwise.
Mind control magic is not intended to cause creatures to be willing targets for spells. Imagine if this was turned on your character, and maybe you'll understand why.
If you go to 1 HP from Death Ward, you don't die. You've been warded against death. That's... The point.
There is no way to permanently become a monster without your DM explicitly choosing to help you. You're never going to find a fully player-facing RAW method to become a lich or whatever.
I think it's a bit more complicated to do a body swap. Here's an old thread about it:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/tips-tactics/67028-magic-jar-permanent-body-swap
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Shame about Command Undead but at least it won't be hostile while I do this buffoonerey. You seem to have misunderstood, let me reiterate.
Magic Jar "If the container is destroyed or the spell ends, your soul immediately returns to your body. If your body is more than 100 feet away from you, or if your body is dead when you attempt to return to it, you die. If another creature's soul is in the container when it is destroyed, the creature's soul returns to its body if the body is alive and within 100 feet. Otherwise, that creature dies."
I am is 100 ft way from the Jar and my comatose body. The spell has ended. The creature cannot return to its original body and I can't return to mine.
Death Ward "If the spell is still in effect when the target is subjected to an effect that would kill it instantaneously without dealing damage, that effect is instead negated against the target, and the spell ends."
So I am subjected to a death effect for not returning to my original body. But I can't die. So I'm alive and magic jar is over and this is my new body
(DM is working with me but I have to figure out how it works mechanically no homebrew, he's not just giving it to me. I could have taken Tenebrous' dark gift but that is where we have the issue of being an NPC by RAW. I'm an end game wizard my character has explored the inner workings of magic and comes up with a plan for Lichdom based on research into undead bla bla bla, I just gotta figure out what it is he learned and how to implement it as a player so my DM doesn't have to fudge anything just give me stats like magic jar and forgo that its a spell like described now I can't be dispelled)
Ah, I think I get it. The idea is to have the impact break the jar, forcing your soul back into your body, but since your body is at the bottom of the cliff and dead, your soul can't return to it. This would cause you to die, but you have Death Ward, so you don't.
I think this works as written. There's an argument to be made that the concept here is less that the spell kills you, and more that the spell is the thing keeping you alive, so after the Death Ward saves you momentarily you might just die again, but that's only going by implied fiction and even then it's debatable. If your DM is on your side, it seems like this ought to work.