Hey all, curious again.

The thread title is an oft spoken maxim about the nature of power.

I was wondering if any of you ever apply any kind of price for those powers in your games?

If so, how do you apply it?

That's pretty much the warlock class description, isn't it?

But, aside from interventionist patrons, and gods/churches with agendas, I don't charge extra costs for the normal powers the PCs get. (Presumably, they're paid for with the hundreds, if not thousands, of blood sacrifices the PCs are making. :)

Special powers, on the other hand, are usually going to come with downsides or entanglements.

Personally, I think the game could do more with running powers/magic items by using hit dice. I gave my players one item that could be powered by burning hit dice, and, if you ran out, hit points, but they never did anything with it. :(

Not so much in this edition, but when I used to do more homebrew magic items, I’d get into drawbacks. Similar to a lot of video games I guess. Where there’s a +1 sword, or a +2 sword, but it, I don’t know, gives you disadvantage on charisma checks or something. Not quite cursed, just something that makes you think twice about whether you want to upgrade. 
But, again, this was for homebrew, so I’d really tailor it to the specific character, which isn’t really the sort of thing you can put in the DMG.

now that you mention it, it does sound like the whole point of the warlocks, lol.

Part of my curiosity was the whole earlier era way of thinking that a really great ability had a really annoying drawback -- the balance issue, and when I think about how many folks (myself included) say that 5e PCs are more like superheroes, I wonder if anyone has ever thought to create some homebrew prices...

Quote from Xalthu >>

Not so much in this edition, but when I used to do more homebrew magic items, I’d get into drawbacks. Similar to a lot of video games I guess. Where there’s a +1 sword, or a +2 sword, but it, I don’t know, gives you disadvantage on charisma checks or something. Not quite cursed, just something that makes you think twice about whether you want to upgrade. 
But, again, this was for homebrew, so I’d really tailor it to the specific character, which isn’t really the sort of thing you can put in the DMG.

 
yeah, magic items can be kinda annoying that way -- and I note that they include a whole detrimental properties thing for artifacts, so it isn't like they have skipped over it.

But I also agree that it works better when tied to something in the development of the PC stage.

Depends on the power, but yes. Many of my magic items have drawbacks.

Oh yes. I love doing this with potions. I had a planes-wandering merchant named Since who only deals in Faustian bargains. His potions are incredibly strong, and his price is incredibly vague. Potions he's made:

Something To Ease The Pain: Grants resistance to all damage for 1 minute, and stacks with other resistances. Side effects are that you do not know how injured you are. The barbarian bought it in return for "a moment of her time." Since yanked her from the Prime Material at a really inconvenient time just to chat with her.

Something To Liven The Senses: Advantage on all perception checks for ten minutes. Side effect of not being able to cast concentration spells due to the overstimulation. The divination wizard bought this in exchange for "a story." He told a story about a nickname he earned, and subsequently forgot that name, as Since took it for himself.

Something To Pass The Time: Haste spell benefits without concentration, minimized aftereffects and an ability to siphon vigor from 3 targets who fail a Wis save as you steal their reactions from them. No side effects beyond mild lethargy and reduced movement speed, but the price was higher. Cleric bought it for "ten minutes of silence." Since took his voice in the middle of a dungeon crawl. Player said it was absolutely worth it, though, to have what was effectively an action surge every round of the campaign's final combat.

That player really liked taking risks for power. He also made a deal with the evil god of wit and power (his deity) to become a super-werewolf - only he had no idea what he was agreeing to at the time. He loved the result, especially the darkvision, resistances and bonus hit die to roll per day that it came with. He also asked Since to create a potion to make him permanently resistant to psychic damage, which he knew the BBEG specialized in. The cost was "his perspective." For what was effectively a Wish spell at level 11, from a CN Faustian alchemist no less, I took the cleric's vision away, forever. All he has now is the darkvision his god gave to him.

I'm continuing the "potent potions with a price" motif in my current campaign, too. Nothing Faustian, but moreso "...where do these ingredients come from and who is exploited to get it?" The party has just uncovered the truth and is keen to knock some skulls around to fix a broken system.

Personally, I love everything about all of this.

Just to give a couple of brief examples from my current game:

One of the barbarians has an oversized +1 greatclub that originally came from a hill giant. When used normally, it's a standard 1d8+1 weapon, with the two-handed, and heavy features. However, it's so unbalanced that all attacks with it are made at disadvantage--unless the wielder rages. Once the wielder rages, they lose disadvantage and it does an extra d8 damage as well as gaining the reach property.

One of the clerics has a belt of frozen giant strength. This is basically a belt of frost giant strength, but is so cold that the wearer suffers disadvantage on any saves against cold damage.

Quote from jl8e >>

That's pretty much the warlock class description, isn't it?

 

 According to the lore, sure. But there's literally no downside coded into the rules, just as there's no rule for divine power being taken away if you break your oath or the tenets of your god.

I'd like to to hear how people have applied these concepts in game.

I'm deeply in love with the aesthetic that power comes with a price. Games like Changeling: The Lost do it better than D&D. I've added that theme to my homebrew world by making magic of any kind a sort of pact... learning it requires a teacher who's already initiated into the supernatural. Players have to give me an NPC to create problems with if they want spells...

Quote from Kotath >>

Quote from scatterbraind >>

Quote from jl8e >>

That's pretty much the warlock class description, isn't it?

 

 According to the lore, sure. But there's literally no downside coded into the rules, just as there's no rule for divine power being taken away if you break your oath or the tenets of your god.

I'd like to to hear how people have applied these concepts in game.

 

And IIRC, there are even official statements (or at least Dev statements) backing that up. I suppose the argument would be that the real price is that you get so few spells to work with, but it really encourages dips, since there is no real down side

This is mostly a product of Gameplay and Story Segregation; they've moved away from classes explicitly requiring or proscribing behaviors to avoid putting people and characters into boxes. That said, there's some secondary material in places like XGtE that offer hooks for things like Patron relationships, so it's not unsupported.

Regarding dips, it's important to remember that a dip is subject to DM approval in the first place; they're not an automatic right.

I sometimes do this with feats and items. My "Medium" feat gives one level of exhaustion to use Speak with Dead, "Aura Reading" has a -5 penalty on your (passive) perception for any other circumstance while you're using it.

Sinde D&D is the way it is, the price of power is measured in gold coins, and you pay it at the local Ye Olden Magic Item Shoppe brand store. Other than that you get the occasional power-for-inconvenience situation, where - for instance - Belt of Dwarvenkind makes you grow a beard you maybe didn't want. 

In terms of how I'd actually run the concept with players, I think I'd go with the classic game concept of "while you're there" optional objectives on a main campaign beat. Like, if the party is exploring a site of power, someone approaches either the group or certain members and offers something if they place this object/carve this sign/destroy this thing at a particular place in the location; if the party is getting ready to attack an enemy stronghold maybe a certain item is acquired/destroyed for the benefactor or a certain NPC escapes/is killed. The thing about this is that I don't think you want the requested actions to be overtly at cross-purposes with the larger party objective, because then you're starting to get into PvP dynamics which is generally not a good route to take. And the conventional blood sacrifice type bits are a) a bit too easy for PC's to achieve, particularly if it's just about the spilling of blood in general and b) going to be somewhat involved solo scenes unless most or all of the party is in on it, which can create a less than ideal dynamic as a recurring thing if most players have to just wait on the sidelines while one or a few people have their special scene every few fights. For rewards there's the Charms and Blessings from the DMG to use as options/examples, as well as things like the Draconic Gifts from Fizban's or the Archdevil Charms from DiA. Feats are an option too. Could eventually spin it out into a personal sidequest/character arc, depending on the campaign.

Granted, I'd obviously need to be judicious about how many and what kind of perks I offer so it doesn't start to shake out like one player is getting preferential treatment. And, of course, there's the inevitable point where the bill comes due, one way or another. If a player really wanted to lean into the angle in a long-running campaign, then I'd want to work out an eventual point where they either fully commit and ride off into the sunset having achieved more power than would be balanced for the campaign, fall victim to the fine print or other consequences and are forcibly removed from the board in some fashion, or have to fight their way free of those consequences but lose some of the better perks. Now, this would of course be a collaborative endeavor, particularly if this wasn't a part of the whole campaign's endgame, but the thing about "power for a price" is that conceptually the idea is to bypass a setting's "typical" power progression/limitations, whatever they might be, and so really playing it out almost inevitably means the participant(s) would eventually start outpacing the rest of the party in a hard RPG like this.