First off I'm only on my 4th campaign and have little knowledge of the game. BUT... I have this interesting idea I would love to play out I want to play as a neutral evil necromancer wizard who is secretly building an undead army (probably while my party takes long rests) But I pretend to be a lawful good cleric who just wants to play his part in achieving his ranks in a city run by a church (maybe something similar) The end game is to unleash my undead onto the city and take control of it allowing party members to have the option of joining the ranks of my city If they accept then that could lead into another campaign of sorts about conquering the world/realm Pretty far fetch idea but I think its just a really interesting idea. Tips or opinions about how to go about this would be appreciated!
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First off I'm only on my 4th campaign and have little knowledge of the game. BUT... I have this interesting idea I would love to play out I want to play as a neutral evil necromancer wizard who is secretly building an undead army (probably while my party takes long rests) But I pretend to be a lawful good cleric who just wants to play his part in achieving his ranks in a city run by a church (maybe something similar) The end game is to unleash my undead onto the city and take control of it allowing party members to have the option of joining the ranks of my city If they accept then that could lead into another campaign of sorts about conquering the world/realm Pretty far fetch idea but I think its just a really interesting idea. Tips or opinions about how to go about this would be appreciated!
First off I'm only on my 4th campaign and have little knowledge of the game. BUT... I have this interesting idea I would love to play out I want to play as a neutral evil necromancer wizard who is secretly building an undead army (probably while my party takes long rests) But I pretend to be a lawful good cleric who just wants to play his part in achieving his ranks in a city run by a church (maybe something similar) The end game is to unleash my undead onto the city and take control of it allowing party members to have the option of joining the ranks of my city If they accept then that could lead into another campaign of sorts about conquering the world/realm Pretty far fetch idea but I think its just a really interesting idea. Tips or opinions about how to go about this would be appreciated!
How much room are you leaving for other players to have their own stories along with yours?
It might be because I skipped lunch, but I'm not able to imagine other players with their own stories able to coexist unless their stories align with yours.
Are you willing to be completely derailed from your character's original intentions thanks to the party's collective story? If so, this is a fine starting point as long as you're okay with the possibility that it'll end up completely different and in a way you can't imagine.
(I know a CE character who only wanted power and has, over time, come to like the party more than her original goal of dominating everything and has all but forgotten about controlling the world.)
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
While party members usually share their character sheets with each other pretty freely, there isn't really a mechanical in-game way to evaluate class type or level, outside of some specific abilities for certain classes like Fighter (Battlemaster) 7's Know Your Enemy or Rogue (Mastermind) 9's Insightful Manipulator. And neither of those would tell you if a character was a wizard vs. a cleric. Certainly one can imagine that the Insight might come in to play, if a player is trying to tell if "something is up" with an NPC... but even an amazing score on Insight probably isn't going to result in the DM telling you "this guy is a level 12 Wizard (Necromancer)". Spellcasting, again there's no guarantee that a player is entitled to know the name of a spell when it's cast, identifying a spell is suggested to be something that takes your reaction and an Arcana check to do in Xanathar's... much less whether that spell is being cast "as a Wizard spell" or "as a Cleric spell". And finally.... NPCs don't actually have class levels, the Necromancer is not a "Wizard" or a "Cleric," he's just a Necromancer!
So all together? Yeah, sounds very doable. Don't just lie to your players with no way for them to receive hints, that doesn't feel like a surprise, just poor storytelling. He's introduced as a cleric, but seems awfully protective of his scripture book, clutching it and acting tense when others try to read over his shoulder. Maybe he's seen interacting with small animals now and again (his familiar), when he doesn't know anyone is watching him. When eavesdropped on while he's praying, an astute character notices that he's actually muttering and drawing little notes in the margins of his scripture book, not behaving like other priests of his faith do when they pray. He wears a holy symbol, but doesn't often touch it like other priests do, and maybe even occasionally forgets it on his table or pulpet in a way that signals it isn't that important to him. That kind of stuff.
You wouldn't be able to pass yourself off as a cleric because you wouldn't be able to be the healer and wouldn't have cleric spells. Not unless every other player decided to roleplay with the knowledge that your character was putting on a facade but their characters didn't know that.
It's a neat idea but mechanically doesn't work.
Now, if you wanted to be a Death Domain cleric, that would be another matter altogether!
Yeah, I think it could be fun, but it'll depend what the other players want out of a campaign; if they're darker characters themselves (a warlock for example), or grey characters (rogues, mercenaries etc.) then it could end up meshing well if you think they'd all be on side, or could be convinced somehow (perhaps their own goals and yours mesh in an unexpected way, like if they're seeking revenge against someone).
The difficulty with one player having an ultimatum ending is going to be if it throws them into conflict with the party; fighting other player characters can be fun, but if you end up in a situation where it's them or you, then someone is going to end up losing a character they might care about, or else it might be completely out of character for them to join you, in which case it may not be fun for them (or you) at all.
So it's definitely one you want to discuss with the DM, maybe let them sound out the other players in terms of where they want the campaign to go, and what type of alignment they're leaning towards, so that you don't have to do it (and can maybe keep your twist a surprise). I'd probably go a trickster or grave cleric though so it's not a total u-turn. Could be interesting if the DM can work in some foreshadowing of a villain that the party's never met, only to find it's one of their own.
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In and of itself the lack of healing shouldn't be an issue, you just need to be really creative and lie your backside off! The easiest way to do that? Pretend to be a Divine Soul Sorcerer, not a cleric or wizard, that way you can just explain away the lack of healing spells as "your innate magic did not manifest into healing spells" and you don't need to justify lack of armour proficiencies. maybe take Magic Initiate: cleric and/or Ritual Caster: Cleric to give a bit more flavour.
A bit of careful spell selection should help: Rope Trick so you get own place to go study your spell book for an hour, Nondetection to be immune to those pesky divination spells etc.And if anyone does see you reading from a spell book, well this is just the arcane versin of your churches holy book.
You might find the skills: Arcana, Religion, Decpetion and Insight to be your go to skills as well.
Yeah it's a super long shot. Death domain cleric is going to be your best bet; it's basically built to be an evil necromantic cleric.
If you're really set on being a wizard, you might be able to pass yourself off as a healer (not a cleric, just a healer) with Gentle Repose and Life Transference, with a side of Dispel Magic and Remove Curse. The lack of Revivify, Raise Dead, and other major divine healing spells will give away you're no cleric, but you can spin it as being a more secular healer--the arcane over the divine. A mortician, perhaps ;)
But still, the truth will be obvious once you start raising the dead. Which raises questions of if your party/group would be cool with this scheme in the first place but that's another story.
I did this for a one-shot as an Arcane Trickster pretending to be a Cleric. He also took a level of Artificer in order to get access to some Cleric spells like Cure Wounds, then just pretended to be a lower-level Cleric.
I think you would have an easier time with a death/cleric then a necro/wizard. Wizards don't get healing spells under normal circumstances. Death/clerics do get raise dead so your undead army is still possible.
'I want to play as a neutral evil necromancer wizard who is secretly building an undead army (probably while my party takes long rests)'
'...But I pretend to be a lawful good cleric who just wants to play his part in achieving his ranks in a city run by a church (maybe something similar)'
Sounds like a really cool idea!
Before continuing this concept however, I would check in with your players and DM very quickly; have you guys discussed beforehand if it's ok to have evil player characters in your campaign? In the story, how would your allies feel if they discover that they have been lied to by their companion? Would the party Paladin have issues with you raising the dead? And what happens when they learn of your evil aims? If they feel wronged, now you suddenly have 2-10 other players who are not happy that they've been played, potentially resulting in Player vs Player. Is everyone ok with that? Is everyone ok if someone dies because of this?
You want to try and avoid spoiling your character but these are discussions that need to be had. Unless discussed beforehand, D&D is usually played as a co-operative team game. Inter party conflict can be great when done well and everyone is on board, but you should definitely talk to everyone in your group about these kind of things beforehand - there's a big difference between leaving a bucket of glue outside your monk's tent and threatening to drop your Bard down a bottomless pit if they don't agree with your characters aims. Basically, you don't want bad vibes at your table if someone gets upset.
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I would still want to have private sessions with a dm working towards my character original plan, but the idea of him actually turning good for the party would be fun in its self!
Maybe still keeping his undead army hidden away until absolutely necessary, like when Gandalf the white showed up with his surprise army in lotr (2 I think)
Beyond the subterfuge of passing yourself off as a cleric, how will you be building the undead army? Having to go to your "undead storage area" every 24 hours to re-assert control over them will raise suspicions. It isn't until you can cast Finger off Death that you get permanently controlled undead as far as I am aware.
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First off I'm only on my 4th campaign and have little knowledge of the game.
BUT...
I have this interesting idea I would love to play out
I want to play as a neutral evil necromancer wizard who is secretly building an undead army (probably while my party takes long rests)
But I pretend to be a lawful good cleric who just wants to play his part in achieving his ranks in a city run by a church (maybe something similar)
The end game is to unleash my undead onto the city and take control of it allowing party members to have the option of joining the ranks of my city
If they accept then that could lead into another campaign of sorts about conquering the world/realm
Pretty far fetch idea but I think its just a really interesting idea.
Tips or opinions about how to go about this would be appreciated!
First off I'm only on my 4th campaign and have little knowledge of the game.
BUT...
I have this interesting idea I would love to play out
I want to play as a neutral evil necromancer wizard who is secretly building an undead army (probably while my party takes long rests)
But I pretend to be a lawful good cleric who just wants to play his part in achieving his ranks in a city run by a church (maybe something similar)
The end game is to unleash my undead onto the city and take control of it allowing party members to have the option of joining the ranks of my city
If they accept then that could lead into another campaign of sorts about conquering the world/realm
Pretty far fetch idea but I think its just a really interesting idea.
Tips or opinions about how to go about this would be appreciated!
First off I'm only on my 4th campaign and have little knowledge of the game.
BUT...
I have this interesting idea I would love to play out
I want to play as a neutral evil necromancer wizard who is secretly building an undead army (probably while my party takes long rests)
But I pretend to be a lawful good cleric who just wants to play his part in achieving his ranks in a city run by a church (maybe something similar)
The end game is to unleash my undead onto the city and take control of it allowing party members to have the option of joining the ranks of my city
If they accept then that could lead into another campaign of sorts about conquering the world/realm
Pretty far fetch idea but I think its just a really interesting idea.
Tips or opinions about how to go about this would be appreciated!
Talk to the DM and other players and make sure they think it’s fun too.
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How much room are you leaving for other players to have their own stories along with yours?
It might be because I skipped lunch, but I'm not able to imagine other players with their own stories able to coexist unless their stories align with yours.
Are you willing to be completely derailed from your character's original intentions thanks to the party's collective story? If so, this is a fine starting point as long as you're okay with the possibility that it'll end up completely different and in a way you can't imagine.
(I know a CE character who only wanted power and has, over time, come to like the party more than her original goal of dominating everything and has all but forgotten about controlling the world.)
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
While party members usually share their character sheets with each other pretty freely, there isn't really a mechanical in-game way to evaluate class type or level, outside of some specific abilities for certain classes like Fighter (Battlemaster) 7's Know Your Enemy or Rogue (Mastermind) 9's Insightful Manipulator. And neither of those would tell you if a character was a wizard vs. a cleric. Certainly one can imagine that the Insight might come in to play, if a player is trying to tell if "something is up" with an NPC... but even an amazing score on Insight probably isn't going to result in the DM telling you "this guy is a level 12 Wizard (Necromancer)". Spellcasting, again there's no guarantee that a player is entitled to know the name of a spell when it's cast, identifying a spell is suggested to be something that takes your reaction and an Arcana check to do in Xanathar's... much less whether that spell is being cast "as a Wizard spell" or "as a Cleric spell". And finally.... NPCs don't actually have class levels, the Necromancer is not a "Wizard" or a "Cleric," he's just a Necromancer!
So all together? Yeah, sounds very doable. Don't just lie to your players with no way for them to receive hints, that doesn't feel like a surprise, just poor storytelling. He's introduced as a cleric, but seems awfully protective of his scripture book, clutching it and acting tense when others try to read over his shoulder. Maybe he's seen interacting with small animals now and again (his familiar), when he doesn't know anyone is watching him. When eavesdropped on while he's praying, an astute character notices that he's actually muttering and drawing little notes in the margins of his scripture book, not behaving like other priests of his faith do when they pray. He wears a holy symbol, but doesn't often touch it like other priests do, and maybe even occasionally forgets it on his table or pulpet in a way that signals it isn't that important to him. That kind of stuff.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
A Necromancer has no clerical spells. A apple tree has no thorns. I do not think you would be able to fool the wise.
You wouldn't be able to pass yourself off as a cleric because you wouldn't be able to be the healer and wouldn't have cleric spells. Not unless every other player decided to roleplay with the knowledge that your character was putting on a facade but their characters didn't know that.
It's a neat idea but mechanically doesn't work.
Now, if you wanted to be a Death Domain cleric, that would be another matter altogether!
Yeah, I think it could be fun, but it'll depend what the other players want out of a campaign; if they're darker characters themselves (a warlock for example), or grey characters (rogues, mercenaries etc.) then it could end up meshing well if you think they'd all be on side, or could be convinced somehow (perhaps their own goals and yours mesh in an unexpected way, like if they're seeking revenge against someone).
The difficulty with one player having an ultimatum ending is going to be if it throws them into conflict with the party; fighting other player characters can be fun, but if you end up in a situation where it's them or you, then someone is going to end up losing a character they might care about, or else it might be completely out of character for them to join you, in which case it may not be fun for them (or you) at all.
So it's definitely one you want to discuss with the DM, maybe let them sound out the other players in terms of where they want the campaign to go, and what type of alignment they're leaning towards, so that you don't have to do it (and can maybe keep your twist a surprise). I'd probably go a trickster or grave cleric though so it's not a total u-turn. Could be interesting if the DM can work in some foreshadowing of a villain that the party's never met, only to find it's one of their own.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
There is one thing you might need to consider. You cannot fool the god in whose temple you are a false brother.
In and of itself the lack of healing shouldn't be an issue, you just need to be really creative and lie your backside off! The easiest way to do that? Pretend to be a Divine Soul Sorcerer, not a cleric or wizard, that way you can just explain away the lack of healing spells as "your innate magic did not manifest into healing spells" and you don't need to justify lack of armour proficiencies. maybe take Magic Initiate: cleric and/or Ritual Caster: Cleric to give a bit more flavour.
A bit of careful spell selection should help: Rope Trick so you get own place to go study your spell book for an hour, Nondetection to be immune to those pesky divination spells etc.And if anyone does see you reading from a spell book, well this is just the arcane versin of your churches holy book.
You might find the skills: Arcana, Religion, Decpetion and Insight to be your go to skills as well.
Yeah it's a super long shot. Death domain cleric is going to be your best bet; it's basically built to be an evil necromantic cleric.
If you're really set on being a wizard, you might be able to pass yourself off as a healer (not a cleric, just a healer) with Gentle Repose and Life Transference, with a side of Dispel Magic and Remove Curse. The lack of Revivify, Raise Dead, and other major divine healing spells will give away you're no cleric, but you can spin it as being a more secular healer--the arcane over the divine. A mortician, perhaps ;)
But still, the truth will be obvious once you start raising the dead. Which raises questions of if your party/group would be cool with this scheme in the first place but that's another story.
The hardest part would be convincing the party that you were a cleric. Stock up as much as possible on healing spells.
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I did this for a one-shot as an Arcane Trickster pretending to be a Cleric. He also took a level of Artificer in order to get access to some Cleric spells like Cure Wounds, then just pretended to be a lower-level Cleric.
I think you would have an easier time with a death/cleric then a necro/wizard. Wizards don't get healing spells under normal circumstances. Death/clerics do get raise dead so your undead army is still possible.
Sounds like a really cool idea!
Before continuing this concept however, I would check in with your players and DM very quickly; have you guys discussed beforehand if it's ok to have evil player characters in your campaign? In the story, how would your allies feel if they discover that they have been lied to by their companion? Would the party Paladin have issues with you raising the dead? And what happens when they learn of your evil aims? If they feel wronged, now you suddenly have 2-10 other players who are not happy that they've been played, potentially resulting in Player vs Player. Is everyone ok with that? Is everyone ok if someone dies because of this?
You want to try and avoid spoiling your character but these are discussions that need to be had. Unless discussed beforehand, D&D is usually played as a co-operative team game. Inter party conflict can be great when done well and everyone is on board, but you should definitely talk to everyone in your group about these kind of things beforehand - there's a big difference between leaving a bucket of glue outside your monk's tent and threatening to drop your Bard down a bottomless pit if they don't agree with your characters aims. Basically, you don't want bad vibes at your table if someone gets upset.
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Have the Physical Books? Confused as to why you're not allowed to redeem them for free on D&D Beyond? Questions answered here at the Hardcover Books, D&D Beyond and You FAQ
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That would actually be a really fun plot point!
I would still want to have private sessions with a dm working towards my character original plan, but the idea of him actually turning good for the party would be fun in its self!
Maybe still keeping his undead army hidden away until absolutely necessary, like when Gandalf the white showed up with his surprise army in lotr (2 I think)
Beyond the subterfuge of passing yourself off as a cleric, how will you be building the undead army? Having to go to your "undead storage area" every 24 hours to re-assert control over them will raise suspicions. It isn't until you can cast Finger off Death that you get permanently controlled undead as far as I am aware.