I've searched for it online and can't find a concrete decision about how the new 'self' targeting works with war caster and opportunity attacks. I'm fine with whatever official decision it is, I just need to know so I can work with it.
I heard about a nerf to Booming Blade and a couple other cantrips that changed the range from 5 ft to Self (5 ft) in the new Tasha's book. I believe it also affected Green-Flame Blade, lightning lure and maybe one other.
They've also changed the errata in DnD Beyond for the spell. Supposedly it changes whether or not it can be used for opportunity attacks.
I do recall hearing about that now that you mention it. I was under the impression it was to subdue twinspell metamagic with those single target spells. Asummeing the spell's range is now self, then you would not be able to use it with Warcaster Opportunity attack.
" When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature."
Range of self is not targeting that creature, so unfortunately it would seem RAW it is no longer possible.
The reason it still works is that War Caster doesn't care about a spell range, it cares about a spell's targets. Booming Blade has a range of self (5 feet), but in the spell description the target is "one creature within 5 feet of you."
I admit I don't know why the range was changed to self (range), since as far as I'm aware that's supposed to be for area attacks that don't have specific targets.
The reason it still works is that War Caster doesn't care about a spell range, it cares about a spell's targets. Booming Blade has a range of self (5 feet), but in the spell description the target is "one creature within 5 feet of you."
I admit I don't know why the range was changed to self (range), since as far as I'm aware that's supposed to be for area attacks that don't have specific targets.
Best guess is that this is solely to prevent it from being used with sorcerer’s Twinned Spell metamagic.
Best guess is that this is solely to prevent it from being used with sorcerer’s Twinned Spell metamagic.
I doubt twinning those spells was ever intended but I'd be surprised if that was the main motivation. They usually don't bother with balance changes like that unless something is really broken, like Healing Spirit or the Polymorph + Power Word Kill combo. My guess is they wanted to emphasize that the caster is the source of the effect and bring it in line with Smite spells. They changed the range of a few Elemental Evil spells when they were reprinted in Xanathar's Guide too.
Another nerf is that the blade cantrips no longer work with spells like shadowblade because the cantrips now require a weapon with a value, which I guess shadowblade does not have.
Personally I'm really not a fan of these nerfs because I love the idea of a melee sorc... Hopefully we'll see an actual melee sorc subclass one day to compensate for this loss.
Best guess is that this is solely to prevent it from being used with sorcerer’s Twinned Spell metamagic.
I doubt twinning those spells was ever intended but I'd be surprised if that was the main motivation. They usually don't bother with balance changes like that unless something is really broken, like Healing Spirit or the Polymorph + Power Word Kill combo. My guess is they wanted to emphasize that the caster is the source of the effect and bring it in line with Smite spells. They changed the range of a few Elemental Evil spells when they were reprinted in Xanathar's Guide too.
It wasn't just twinned spell. Players were using its 5 ft range to justify stacking it with spell sniper so they could use it with polearms. Spell sniper is clearly intended to double the range of ranged spell attacks while booming blade uses a melee weapon attack. The change removes any ambiguity so that RAW now matches RAI, and a lot of people are unhappy about it.
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Frankly, my dear, I'd rather be listening to Rehn Stillnight.
Best guess is that this is solely to prevent it from being used with sorcerer’s Twinned Spell metamagic.
I doubt twinning those spells was ever intended but I'd be surprised if that was the main motivation. They usually don't bother with balance changes like that unless something is really broken, like Healing Spirit or the Polymorph + Power Word Kill combo. My guess is they wanted to emphasize that the caster is the source of the effect and bring it in line with Smite spells. They changed the range of a few Elemental Evil spells when they were reprinted in Xanathar's Guide too.
It wasn't just twinned spell. Players were using its 5 ft range to justify stacking it with spell sniper so they could use it with polearms. Spell sniper is clearly intended to double the range of ranged spell attacks while booming blade uses a melee weapon attack. The change removes any ambiguity so that RAW now matches RAI, and a lot of people are unhappy about it.
Except it doesn't actually remove that ambiguity, because it still clearly has a 5 foot range.
Best guess is that this is solely to prevent it from being used with sorcerer’s Twinned Spell metamagic.
I doubt twinning those spells was ever intended but I'd be surprised if that was the main motivation. They usually don't bother with balance changes like that unless something is really broken, like Healing Spirit or the Polymorph + Power Word Kill combo. My guess is they wanted to emphasize that the caster is the source of the effect and bring it in line with Smite spells. They changed the range of a few Elemental Evil spells when they were reprinted in Xanathar's Guide too.
It wasn't just twinned spell. Players were using its 5 ft range to justify stacking it with spell sniper so they could use it with polearms. Spell sniper is clearly intended to double the range of ranged spell attacks while booming blade uses a melee weapon attack. The change removes any ambiguity so that RAW now matches RAI, and a lot of people are unhappy about it.
Except it doesn't actually remove that ambiguity, because it still clearly has a 5 foot range.
Hey, to me it wasn't even ambiguous. I would never have let a player use booming blade or green-flame blade with polearms.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Frankly, my dear, I'd rather be listening to Rehn Stillnight.
Best guess is that this is solely to prevent it from being used with sorcerer’s Twinned Spell metamagic.
I doubt twinning those spells was ever intended but I'd be surprised if that was the main motivation. They usually don't bother with balance changes like that unless something is really broken, like Healing Spirit or the Polymorph + Power Word Kill combo. My guess is they wanted to emphasize that the caster is the source of the effect and bring it in line with Smite spells. They changed the range of a few Elemental Evil spells when they were reprinted in Xanathar's Guide too.
It wasn't just twinned spell. Players were using its 5 ft range to justify stacking it with spell sniper so they could use it with polearms. Spell sniper is clearly intended to double the range of ranged spell attacks while booming blade uses a melee weapon attack. The change removes any ambiguity so that RAW now matches RAI, and a lot of people are unhappy about it.
Except it doesn't actually remove that ambiguity, because it still clearly has a 5 foot range.
Hey, to me it wasn't even ambiguous. I would never have let a player use booming blade or green-flame blade with polearms.
There's literally no reason not to, but okay? The only problem was that it even required a feat.
Best guess is that this is solely to prevent it from being used with sorcerer’s Twinned Spell metamagic.
I doubt twinning those spells was ever intended but I'd be surprised if that was the main motivation. They usually don't bother with balance changes like that unless something is really broken, like Healing Spirit or the Polymorph + Power Word Kill combo. My guess is they wanted to emphasize that the caster is the source of the effect and bring it in line with Smite spells. They changed the range of a few Elemental Evil spells when they were reprinted in Xanathar's Guide too.
It wasn't just twinned spell. Players were using its 5 ft range to justify stacking it with spell sniper so they could use it with polearms. Spell sniper is clearly intended to double the range of ranged spell attacks while booming blade uses a melee weapon attack. The change removes any ambiguity so that RAW now matches RAI, and a lot of people are unhappy about it.
Except it doesn't actually remove that ambiguity, because it still clearly has a 5 foot range.
Hey, to me it wasn't even ambiguous. I would never have let a player use booming blade or green-flame blade with polearms.
There's literally no reason not to, but okay? The only problem was that it even required a feat.
I agree. As far as I’m concerned it still works the way I always ruled it to work. The caster is the Target, the effect automatically works with reach weapons without Spell Sniper, and they are ineligible for use with War Caster as a Reaction.
Best guess is that this is solely to prevent it from being used with sorcerer’s Twinned Spell metamagic.
I doubt twinning those spells was ever intended but I'd be surprised if that was the main motivation. They usually don't bother with balance changes like that unless something is really broken, like Healing Spirit or the Polymorph + Power Word Kill combo. My guess is they wanted to emphasize that the caster is the source of the effect and bring it in line with Smite spells. They changed the range of a few Elemental Evil spells when they were reprinted in Xanathar's Guide too.
It wasn't just twinned spell. Players were using its 5 ft range to justify stacking it with spell sniper so they could use it with polearms. Spell sniper is clearly intended to double the range of ranged spell attacks while booming blade uses a melee weapon attack. The change removes any ambiguity so that RAW now matches RAI, and a lot of people are unhappy about it.
Except it doesn't actually remove that ambiguity, because it still clearly has a 5 foot range.
Hey, to me it wasn't even ambiguous. I would never have let a player use booming blade or green-flame blade with polearms.
There's literally no reason not to, but okay? The only problem was that it even required a feat.
Sorry, I didn't put that last comment very well. Used with a polearm against an enemy up to 5 ft away, that's fine. From all the screams of outrage I'm seeing online it seems a lot of players were prepared to take that feat.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Frankly, my dear, I'd rather be listening to Rehn Stillnight.
Best guess is that this is solely to prevent it from being used with sorcerer’s Twinned Spell metamagic.
I doubt twinning those spells was ever intended but I'd be surprised if that was the main motivation. They usually don't bother with balance changes like that unless something is really broken, like Healing Spirit or the Polymorph + Power Word Kill combo. My guess is they wanted to emphasize that the caster is the source of the effect and bring it in line with Smite spells. They changed the range of a few Elemental Evil spells when they were reprinted in Xanathar's Guide too.
It wasn't just twinned spell. Players were using its 5 ft range to justify stacking it with spell sniper so they could use it with polearms. Spell sniper is clearly intended to double the range of ranged spell attacks while booming blade uses a melee weapon attack. The change removes any ambiguity so that RAW now matches RAI, and a lot of people are unhappy about it.
Except it doesn't actually remove that ambiguity, because it still clearly has a 5 foot range.
Hey, to me it wasn't even ambiguous. I would never have let a player use booming blade or green-flame blade with polearms.
I can't see why restricting it to targets within 5' of you is so important. Is it really so OP to allow someone to use a polearm with it and hit someone in that 5-10' range? I wish they'd changed the wording to just let the attack be made against a creature within the reach of the weapon being used. As for ambiguity, honestly if they were trying to be more clear about things with the new wording, epic fail.
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I've searched for it online and can't find a concrete decision about how the new 'self' targeting works with war caster and opportunity attacks. I'm fine with whatever official decision it is, I just need to know so I can work with it.
Anyone care to enlighten me? Thanks!
I'm confused about what you are referring to. Could you please elaborate?
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I heard about a nerf to Booming Blade and a couple other cantrips that changed the range from 5 ft to Self (5 ft) in the new Tasha's book. I believe it also affected Green-Flame Blade, lightning lure and maybe one other.
They've also changed the errata in DnD Beyond for the spell. Supposedly it changes whether or not it can be used for opportunity attacks.
I do recall hearing about that now that you mention it. I was under the impression it was to subdue twinspell metamagic with those single target spells. Asummeing the spell's range is now self, then you would not be able to use it with Warcaster Opportunity attack.
" When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. The spell must have a casting time of 1 action and must target only that creature."
Range of self is not targeting that creature, so unfortunately it would seem RAW it is no longer possible.
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According to Jeremy Crawford, Booming Blade still works with War Caster: https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1326598236937674752
That's counterintuitive considering the wording, but there you go. It still works.
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"Play the game however you want to play the game. After all, your fun doesn't threaten my fun."
I must have bad googling skills. I guess that was what I was most worried about. Thanks!
The reason it still works is that War Caster doesn't care about a spell range, it cares about a spell's targets. Booming Blade has a range of self (5 feet), but in the spell description the target is "one creature within 5 feet of you."
I admit I don't know why the range was changed to self (range), since as far as I'm aware that's supposed to be for area attacks that don't have specific targets.
I agree, hence why I made the post.
Interestingly, Booming Blade appears to be literally the only 'self' spell with a range but no area.
Best guess is that this is solely to prevent it from being used with sorcerer’s Twinned Spell metamagic.
I doubt twinning those spells was ever intended but I'd be surprised if that was the main motivation. They usually don't bother with balance changes like that unless something is really broken, like Healing Spirit or the Polymorph + Power Word Kill combo. My guess is they wanted to emphasize that the caster is the source of the effect and bring it in line with Smite spells. They changed the range of a few Elemental Evil spells when they were reprinted in Xanathar's Guide too.
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Another nerf is that the blade cantrips no longer work with spells like shadowblade because the cantrips now require a weapon with a value, which I guess shadowblade does not have.
Personally I'm really not a fan of these nerfs because I love the idea of a melee sorc... Hopefully we'll see an actual melee sorc subclass one day to compensate for this loss.
It wasn't just twinned spell. Players were using its 5 ft range to justify stacking it with spell sniper so they could use it with polearms. Spell sniper is clearly intended to double the range of ranged spell attacks while booming blade uses a melee weapon attack. The change removes any ambiguity so that RAW now matches RAI, and a lot of people are unhappy about it.
Frankly, my dear, I'd rather be listening to Rehn Stillnight.
Except it doesn't actually remove that ambiguity, because it still clearly has a 5 foot range.
Hey, to me it wasn't even ambiguous. I would never have let a player use booming blade or green-flame blade with polearms.
Frankly, my dear, I'd rather be listening to Rehn Stillnight.
There's literally no reason not to, but okay? The only problem was that it even required a feat.
I agree. As far as I’m concerned it still works the way I always ruled it to work. The caster is the Target, the effect automatically works with reach weapons without Spell Sniper, and they are ineligible for use with War Caster as a Reaction.
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Sorry, I didn't put that last comment very well. Used with a polearm against an enemy up to 5 ft away, that's fine. From all the screams of outrage I'm seeing online it seems a lot of players were prepared to take that feat.
Frankly, my dear, I'd rather be listening to Rehn Stillnight.
I can't see why restricting it to targets within 5' of you is so important. Is it really so OP to allow someone to use a polearm with it and hit someone in that 5-10' range? I wish they'd changed the wording to just let the attack be made against a creature within the reach of the weapon being used. As for ambiguity, honestly if they were trying to be more clear about things with the new wording, epic fail.