I have tried to search for this answer on google to no avail.
I understand the spell casting rules bonus spell means cantrips only, but what if?
So i want to allow my table to be able to cast both a leveled spell as a bonus action and regular action. This would cause them to burn through spells if their careless or pull out a clutch combo of spells when needed. I also have a number of new bonus actions available. Example: bonus to steady aim and gain adv of ranged attack/spell attack or bracing to be hit giving a +2 to ac and saving throws.
So they may find it better to use one of these new bonus actions (i have 5 or 6 of them) instead of multi casting spells. That said is it terribly broken If both PCs and enemies can cast 2 leveled spells per turn?
Tldr: is it broken for both players and NPCs to be able to cast leveled spell as bonus action and action in same turn?
This isn't a rules question at all. This belongs in DM or Homebrew. If this is something you and your players want to do and will enjoy, it's not terribly broken. Why not repost to the proper forum(s) for opinions, test it out with your group and let us know how it goes? And, please list you Bonus Action ideas if you wish!
Most Bonus action spells are meant to be paired with the attack action on the same turn (granting benefits to the attack(s) made with that action), so using an action to cast a spell instead is probably not in the best interest of the player for 75-80% of those spells. The few that aren't that (the "step" spells, healing word, a few others) might have a few "unintended combos" with other spells that might have overpowered results, but if you want to houserule that this is possible, then go for it! (It won't be RAW or RAI, but it might be RAF for your table)
Sorcerers with quickened spell will love this. Martial characters will be screwed, doubling the number of saves they need to make, not to mention they don’t get any extra attacks out of this.
NPCs will be the real beneficiaries. They’re only going to have one fight a day, so there’s no reason for them to hold back, while PCs never know how many encounters they’ll have, and so will need to keep things in reserve. Of course, that’s meta gaming for both the DM and the players.
Sorcerers with quickened spell will love this. Martial characters will be screwed, doubling the number of saves they need to make, not to mention they don’t get any extra attacks out of this.
NPCs will be the real beneficiaries. They’re only going to have one fight a day, so there’s no reason for them to hold back, while PCs never know how many encounters they’ll have, and so will need to keep things in reserve. Of course, that’s meta gaming for both the DM and the players.
You are absolutely right for Sorcerers, I missed that one...two fireballs per turn (as opposed to fireball/fire bolt or something similar) or similar leveled spell combos is an insane increase in damage potential. And it gets worse depending on the spells quickened.
I think your bonus actions are more broken than the spell limitation TBH. Steady Aim on artillery classes that can sit in one place for an entire fight is very strong. So is the defensive one.
If you do decide to implement this sort of thing, I'd suggest adding some kind of cost. Personally, I love making use of the Exhaustion mechanic when creating a cost. If I had to implement your idea, I'd probably have them succeed on a DC10 + spell level CON save or take a level of Exhaustion.
Thank you for the advice. I really couldnt wrap my head around the original rule as to why it was in place. Now with sorcerers in mind (ive never played or made one) i see the issue.
I really love the con save vs exhaustion and may increase the dc a little (we dont have a sorcerer in the party .... yet). As for the bonuses being over powered... i know... but its not fun having a lot of turns where you just never use your bonus action. Besides enemies will do the same and most humanoid/inteligent enemies will focus archers and casters if possible.
Thank you for the advice. I really couldnt wrap my head around the original rule as to why it was in place. Now with sorcerers in mind (ive never played or made one) i see the issue.
I really love the con save vs exhaustion and may increase the dc a little (we dont have a sorcerer in the party .... yet). As for the bonuses being over powered... i know... but its not fun having a lot of turns where you just never use your bonus action. Besides enemies will do the same and most humanoid/inteligent enemies will focus archers and casters if possible.
Thank you all!
I totally get where you're coming from! Making the game more dynamic without throwing away the balance completely can add a lot to the experience.
Regarding the Exhaustion cost, remember that it is a powerful mechanic that lasts a whole day (consider what else they might be doing outside the combat at hand). The simple risk of getting Exhausted might keep your players away from using the bonus action spell, and it sounds like you do want them to use it. Keep this in mind when setting the DC.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I have tried to search for this answer on google to no avail.
I understand the spell casting rules bonus spell means cantrips only, but what if?
So i want to allow my table to be able to cast both a leveled spell as a bonus action and regular action. This would cause them to burn through spells if their careless or pull out a clutch combo of spells when needed. I also have a number of new bonus actions available. Example: bonus to steady aim and gain adv of ranged attack/spell attack or bracing to be hit giving a +2 to ac and saving throws.
So they may find it better to use one of these new bonus actions (i have 5 or 6 of them) instead of multi casting spells. That said is it terribly broken If both PCs and enemies can cast 2 leveled spells per turn?
Tldr: is it broken for both players and NPCs to be able to cast leveled spell as bonus action and action in same turn?
This isn't a rules question at all. This belongs in DM or Homebrew. If this is something you and your players want to do and will enjoy, it's not terribly broken. Why not repost to the proper forum(s) for opinions, test it out with your group and let us know how it goes? And, please list you Bonus Action ideas if you wish!
Most Bonus action spells are meant to be paired with the attack action on the same turn (granting benefits to the attack(s) made with that action), so using an action to cast a spell instead is probably not in the best interest of the player for 75-80% of those spells. The few that aren't that (the "step" spells, healing word, a few others) might have a few "unintended combos" with other spells that might have overpowered results, but if you want to houserule that this is possible, then go for it! (It won't be RAW or RAI, but it might be RAF for your table)
Sorcerers with quickened spell will love this. Martial characters will be screwed, doubling the number of saves they need to make, not to mention they don’t get any extra attacks out of this.
NPCs will be the real beneficiaries. They’re only going to have one fight a day, so there’s no reason for them to hold back, while PCs never know how many encounters they’ll have, and so will need to keep things in reserve. Of course, that’s meta gaming for both the DM and the players.
You are absolutely right for Sorcerers, I missed that one...two fireballs per turn (as opposed to fireball/fire bolt or something similar) or similar leveled spell combos is an insane increase in damage potential. And it gets worse depending on the spells quickened.
I think your bonus actions are more broken than the spell limitation TBH. Steady Aim on artillery classes that can sit in one place for an entire fight is very strong. So is the defensive one.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
If you do decide to implement this sort of thing, I'd suggest adding some kind of cost. Personally, I love making use of the Exhaustion mechanic when creating a cost. If I had to implement your idea, I'd probably have them succeed on a DC10 + spell level CON save or take a level of Exhaustion.
Thank you for the advice. I really couldnt wrap my head around the original rule as to why it was in place. Now with sorcerers in mind (ive never played or made one) i see the issue.
I really love the con save vs exhaustion and may increase the dc a little (we dont have a sorcerer in the party .... yet). As for the bonuses being over powered... i know... but its not fun having a lot of turns where you just never use your bonus action. Besides enemies will do the same and most humanoid/inteligent enemies will focus archers and casters if possible.
Thank you all!
I totally get where you're coming from! Making the game more dynamic without throwing away the balance completely can add a lot to the experience.
Regarding the Exhaustion cost, remember that it is a powerful mechanic that lasts a whole day (consider what else they might be doing outside the combat at hand). The simple risk of getting Exhausted might keep your players away from using the bonus action spell, and it sounds like you do want them to use it. Keep this in mind when setting the DC.