I've been perusing the forums for a while and it's pretty universally agreed that mobile and crusher are damn near mandatory on monks if they want to take full advantage of their mobility (without way of the open hand). Tough and lucky are just universally good. But is fey touched in the running? It's rarely discussed.
I think fey touched with hex might be getting sorely overlooked. Sure it's once per day (or is it short rest?) But hex adding a d6 to every landed attack I think could stack up quite quickly. Even on any monk subclass that gets I think 4 attacks per turn in the mid to late game but even more with the astral self monk who gets 5.
Looking at way of the astral self, you already get that 10 ft range with your attacks which could help you get in and out of combat without having to take mobile or crusher (though you might want to take it anyhow) to avoid opportunity attacks. In a pinch you can misty step if need be to get range, and then with flurry of blows you're getting 4 attacks per turn, each with an added d6. (5 at later levels).. 5d6 per turn seems pretty respectable to me.
Meanwhile you could, with hex, on an astral self monk, give the opponent disadvantage on strength checks or dex checks they might make to break any grapples you impose.
Being a half feat that can increase wisdom (which you can stack early as an astral self monk) is just the cherry on top.
The only downside I see is that it cuts into your already stretched bonus action economy but I think in fights expected to run more than 3 or 4 rounds it pays for itself.. 1 bonus to summon your arms, 1 bonus to hex. The 3rd round of flurrys adds 4d6 so, fair enough for me anyhow.
While Fey Touched is a good feat to take, there are some issues for an Astral Self Monk:
The components for Hex are V,S,M, since you are attacking with your Astral Arms most of the time, you could have the bag of components on yourself, so it's no problem. Alternatively, you could simply use Hunter's Mark, since that only has a V component.
You already mentioned that it will take until the 3rd turn to have all your attacks benefit for the spell, sure your 2nd turn will at least get 2 or 3 attacks (at lvl 5 and 17). This isn't a problem if combat lasts longer that just 3 rounds (which should be the norm, but apparently a single short combat per day seems to be trending on most tables, making players spend all resources on their first turns).
Keep in mind that to grapple you use your real arms, not the Astral Self ones, the feature lets you use Wisdom instead of Strength while the Arms are present, but the Astral Arms do not make the grapple, they can only be used to make unarmed strikes and nothing more.
There is too much bonus action going on, too much risk of losing concentration, and too limited a use. Hunter's Mark/Hex could be a fun way to give monks an oomph, but it doesn't work out so well in reality.
Keep in mind that to grapple you use your real arms, not the Astral Self ones, the feature lets you use Wisdom instead of Strength while the Arms are present, but the Astral Arms do not make the grapple, they can only be used to make unarmed strikes and nothing more.
Hmmmm... it seems that way but idk if it was intended that way... rai vs raw I think... a grapple is an unarmed attack. But not a strike.. and everything else about the ability seems to imply the arms are making it easier for you to grapple so they should probably be capable of initating a grapple.
Keep in mind that to grapple you use your real arms, not the Astral Self ones, the feature lets you use Wisdom instead of Strength while the Arms are present, but the Astral Arms do not make the grapple, they can only be used to make unarmed strikes and nothing more.
Hmmmm... it seems that way but idk if it was intended that way... rai vs raw I think... a grapple is an unarmed attack. But not a strike.. and everything else about the ability seems to imply the arms are making it easier for you to grapple so they should probably be capable of initating a grapple.
RAW you can’t. RAI? Who knows. And with 1D&D changes to unarmed strikes, it may be possible but won’t know for sure until Astral Self is revised.
I've been perusing the forums for a while and it's pretty universally agreed that mobile and crusher are damn near mandatory on monks if they want to take full advantage of their mobility (without way of the open hand). Tough and lucky are just universally good. But is fey touched in the running? It's rarely discussed.
I think fey touched with hex might be getting sorely overlooked. Sure it's once per day (or is it short rest?) But hex adding a d6 to every landed attack I think could stack up quite quickly. Even on any monk subclass that gets I think 4 attacks per turn in the mid to late game but even more with the astral self monk who gets 5.
Looking at way of the astral self, you already get that 10 ft range with your attacks which could help you get in and out of combat without having to take mobile or crusher (though you might want to take it anyhow) to avoid opportunity attacks. In a pinch you can misty step if need be to get range, and then with flurry of blows you're getting 4 attacks per turn, each with an added d6. (5 at later levels).. 5d6 per turn seems pretty respectable to me.
Meanwhile you could, with hex, on an astral self monk, give the opponent disadvantage on strength checks or dex checks they might make to break any grapples you impose.
Being a half feat that can increase wisdom (which you can stack early as an astral self monk) is just the cherry on top.
The only downside I see is that it cuts into your already stretched bonus action economy but I think in fights expected to run more than 3 or 4 rounds it pays for itself.. 1 bonus to summon your arms, 1 bonus to hex. The 3rd round of flurrys adds 4d6 so, fair enough for me anyhow.
I've been perusing the forums for a while and it's pretty universally agreed that mobile and crusher are damn near mandatory on monks if they want to take full advantage of their mobility (without way of the open hand). Tough and lucky are just universally good. But is fey touched in the running? It's rarely discussed.
I think fey touched with hex might be getting sorely overlooked. Sure it's once per day (or is it short rest?) But hex adding a d6 to every landed attack I think could stack up quite quickly. Even on any monk subclass that gets I think 4 attacks per turn in the mid to late game but even more with the astral self monk who gets 5.
Looking at way of the astral self, you already get that 10 ft range with your attacks which could help you get in and out of combat without having to take mobile or crusher (though you might want to take it anyhow) to avoid opportunity attacks. In a pinch you can misty step if need be to get range, and then with flurry of blows you're getting 4 attacks per turn, each with an added d6. (5 at later levels).. 5d6 per turn seems pretty respectable to me.
Meanwhile you could, with hex, on an astral self monk, give the opponent disadvantage on strength checks or dex checks they might make to break any grapples you impose.
Being a half feat that can increase wisdom (which you can stack early as an astral self monk) is just the cherry on top.
The only downside I see is that it cuts into your already stretched bonus action economy but I think in fights expected to run more than 3 or 4 rounds it pays for itself.. 1 bonus to summon your arms, 1 bonus to hex. The 3rd round of flurrys adds 4d6 so, fair enough for me anyhow.
Has anyone ever tried this? Thoughts?
Some consider Hex as a trap. YMMV.
And what kronzypantz said above.
Yeah I watched the video but the guy doesn't really account for effectiveness over multiple rounds of combat. I'm on the fence as to weather a monk can afford the bonus action economy but a d10 average damage is 5.5 and a d6 average damage is 3.5 so you're looking at a 65% increase on the damage of your dice per round that it's up (at higher levels, on lower levels its a much higher) I don't think that's inefficient.
So you're sacrificing a flurry to do that, up until level 11 the missed damage is equal to the added damage because they're both d6s. Post level 11 it only takes one round after applying hex to recoup and get gains from the missed flurry.
Edit: misses are misses. If you miss the attack you miss the hex roll too so the success rate on each attack is negligible when comparing the actual damage difference per hit.
It all depends on a variety of factors, which most things do, but BA to cast, BA to move if your target dies, concentration that you may lose does pose a problem. The extra damage, while nice, does interfere with other things your Monk could be doing. And lets face it, you're going to get hit from time to time, and without proficiency in CON saves you could very well lose it before you get much from it.
It's a gamble either way. The Misty Step is nice, but there are other feats, like you mentioned, that are top contenders for a reason.
It all depends on a variety of factors, which most things do, but BA to cast, BA to move if your target dies, concentration that you may lose does pose a problem. The extra damage, while nice, does interfere with other things your Monk could be doing. And lets face it, you're going to get hit from time to time, and without proficiency in CON saves you could very well lose it before you get much from it.
It's a gamble either way. The Misty Step is nice, but there are other feats, like you mentioned, that are top contenders for a reason.
I agree with all of that. It's definitely not going to work the way I want it to every time and even still, in fights that go less than 4 rounds its useless..
The hypothetical build I had in mind takes a 1 level dip into cleric (light domain) for the reactive disadvantage and 2 spell slots in case I want to use those spells more than once each..
I love playing a monk with Hex. What you need to realized is that you can start the spell way ahead of combat starting (i.e. when starting an argument) and keep it going. It could even help you win the argument/feat of strength/etc. and make it so you don't need to fight at all. My character points at the target with one hand, says " you are a bad person", then crushes the newt eye secretly in the other. Hexed. That makes you first combat turn bonus action still available to use.
I love playing a monk with Hex. What you need to realized is that you can start the spell way ahead of combat starting (i.e. when starting an argument) and keep it going. It could even help you win the argument/feat of strength/etc. and make it so you don't need to fight at all. My character points at the target with one hand, says " you are a bad person", then crushes the newt eye secretly in the other. Hexed. That makes you first combat turn bonus action still available to use.
Depends on your DM if this works. Usually casting a spell starts combat for those types of things, unless possibly if it’s a subtle spell meta magic cast (or other way with no components) If it was just a V spell maybe. But having S & M components as well? I wouldn’t allow it. Pretty much by the component rules any component is obvious enough to know you are casting for creatures to react to, like counterspell or other reactions.
Yeah, casting a spell is casting a spell. If you could just creatively hide your use of spell components, game elements like Subtle Spell lose all value.
If I start casting a harmful spell outside of combat, most DMs I know will call for initiative right there and my cast "finishes" on my turn. Casting ahead can still work, like casting right before you bust a door down, but it's not a reliable solution.
Also in my experience with Hex/HM it's the bonus action to move it to a new target that really kills the spells. Things just die too fast in most combats. Honestly a houserule that allowed it to jump to the next closest target without an action would probably bring the spells utility back up without making it overpowered.
I've been perusing the forums for a while and it's pretty universally agreed that mobile and crusher are damn near mandatory on monks if they want to take full advantage of their mobility (without way of the open hand). Tough and lucky are just universally good. But is fey touched in the running? It's rarely discussed.
I think fey touched with hex might be getting sorely overlooked. Sure it's once per day (or is it short rest?) But hex adding a d6 to every landed attack I think could stack up quite quickly. Even on any monk subclass that gets I think 4 attacks per turn in the mid to late game but even more with the astral self monk who gets 5.
Looking at way of the astral self, you already get that 10 ft range with your attacks which could help you get in and out of combat without having to take mobile or crusher (though you might want to take it anyhow) to avoid opportunity attacks. In a pinch you can misty step if need be to get range, and then with flurry of blows you're getting 4 attacks per turn, each with an added d6. (5 at later levels).. 5d6 per turn seems pretty respectable to me.
Meanwhile you could, with hex, on an astral self monk, give the opponent disadvantage on strength checks or dex checks they might make to break any grapples you impose.
Being a half feat that can increase wisdom (which you can stack early as an astral self monk) is just the cherry on top.
The only downside I see is that it cuts into your already stretched bonus action economy but I think in fights expected to run more than 3 or 4 rounds it pays for itself.. 1 bonus to summon your arms, 1 bonus to hex. The 3rd round of flurrys adds 4d6 so, fair enough for me anyhow.
Has anyone ever tried this? Thoughts?
While Fey Touched is a good feat to take, there are some issues for an Astral Self Monk:
There is too much bonus action going on, too much risk of losing concentration, and too limited a use. Hunter's Mark/Hex could be a fun way to give monks an oomph, but it doesn't work out so well in reality.
Hmmmm... it seems that way but idk if it was intended that way... rai vs raw I think... a grapple is an unarmed attack. But not a strike.. and everything else about the ability seems to imply the arms are making it easier for you to grapple so they should probably be capable of initating a grapple.
RAW you can’t. RAI? Who knows. And with 1D&D changes to unarmed strikes, it may be possible but won’t know for sure until Astral Self is revised.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Some consider Hex as a trap. YMMV.
And what kronzypantz said above.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Yeah I watched the video but the guy doesn't really account for effectiveness over multiple rounds of combat. I'm on the fence as to weather a monk can afford the bonus action economy but a d10 average damage is 5.5 and a d6 average damage is 3.5 so you're looking at a 65% increase on the damage of your dice per round that it's up (at higher levels, on lower levels its a much higher) I don't think that's inefficient.
So you're sacrificing a flurry to do that, up until level 11 the missed damage is equal to the added damage because they're both d6s. Post level 11 it only takes one round after applying hex to recoup and get gains from the missed flurry.
Edit: misses are misses. If you miss the attack you miss the hex roll too so the success rate on each attack is negligible when comparing the actual damage difference per hit.
It all depends on a variety of factors, which most things do, but BA to cast, BA to move if your target dies, concentration that you may lose does pose a problem. The extra damage, while nice, does interfere with other things your Monk could be doing. And lets face it, you're going to get hit from time to time, and without proficiency in CON saves you could very well lose it before you get much from it.
It's a gamble either way. The Misty Step is nice, but there are other feats, like you mentioned, that are top contenders for a reason.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I agree with all of that. It's definitely not going to work the way I want it to every time and even still, in fights that go less than 4 rounds its useless..
The hypothetical build I had in mind takes a 1 level dip into cleric (light domain) for the reactive disadvantage and 2 spell slots in case I want to use those spells more than once each..
I love playing a monk with Hex. What you need to realized is that you can start the spell way ahead of combat starting (i.e. when starting an argument) and keep it going. It could even help you win the argument/feat of strength/etc. and make it so you don't need to fight at all. My character points at the target with one hand, says " you are a bad person", then crushes the newt eye secretly in the other. Hexed. That makes you first combat turn bonus action still available to use.
Depends on your DM if this works. Usually casting a spell starts combat for those types of things, unless possibly if it’s a subtle spell meta magic cast (or other way with no components) If it was just a V spell maybe. But having S & M components as well? I wouldn’t allow it. Pretty much by the component rules any component is obvious enough to know you are casting for creatures to react to, like counterspell or other reactions.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Yeah, casting a spell is casting a spell. If you could just creatively hide your use of spell components, game elements like Subtle Spell lose all value.
If I start casting a harmful spell outside of combat, most DMs I know will call for initiative right there and my cast "finishes" on my turn. Casting ahead can still work, like casting right before you bust a door down, but it's not a reliable solution.
Also in my experience with Hex/HM it's the bonus action to move it to a new target that really kills the spells. Things just die too fast in most combats. Honestly a houserule that allowed it to jump to the next closest target without an action would probably bring the spells utility back up without making it overpowered.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm