For me my favourite villains are the Nazgûl for obvious reasons, Smaug (his movie incarnation is straight out of the book, but he somehow manages to be even more terrifying in the movie so I’d have to say I like that better then the book), and most specifically the Witch King. He is just the coolest. Read his backstory. The dude is the one who destroyed Arnor beyond repair, broke the line of kings in Gondor, and is secretly responsible for virtually everything bad that has happened to the Dunadain and their kingdoms.
It’s basically like:
Sauron: “Imma kill the Dunadain kings and break their kingdoms.” He promptly gets killed by said kings.
Witch King: “Imma kill the Dunadain kings and break their kingdoms.” Promptly reduces Arnor to ruins and not only kills the kings but wipes out 90% of the Dunadain just to be sure. Then moves in next door to Gondor, wipes out all the Dunadain kings there, and proceeds to make war on Gondor for a thousand years as an afterthought.
Yeah, there’s a reason Sauron just sat on his ass in LotR and let the Witch King run everything.
That’s also the reason as to which Sauron is not on my list. Although he is the bbeg, the witch king is the one who does the work. It’s like Beerus and Frieza, or Goldfinger and Oddjob. He gets more screen time and is outright badass.
The Witch King does the work because he’s categorically stronger then Sauron, who loses every fight he ever gets into. Besides having complete invincibility against virtually all his enemies, the Witch King is simply more powerful. He created a plague that wiped out nearly half the world (I’m not kidding. It spread across nearly every settlement of the Free Peoples and wiped out massive amounts of their populations). He summoned the worst winter in history that halved those populations again a century later, and is the reason the North is so cold. He created the greatest amount of undead in history (the Barrow-Wights). He didn’t just kill his enemies, he tortured and destroyed them so completely they ceased to exist. Arnor is the perfect example of what happens when the Witch King wants to kill you.
You have to take a second to realize: The reason settlements are so few, the reason Gondor is an iota of its former strength, the reason the world is so dark and dangerous, in fact every single problem with Middle Earth in LotR is solely due to the Witch King. While Sauron is playing around with his Rings to try and destroy the world, the Witch King actually did it. Without being under Sauron’s control, might I add. Sauron was down for the count while the Witch King did all this.
You are the MAN Lego. Like dam, you know you’re stuff. I also like your point that Sauron was out of order while the witch king was rampaging through middle earth and dealing 4 times the amount of damage Sauron ever did.
Thanks man :). Here’s a thought, what would the Witch-King do if Sauron lost control of him. Would he oust Sauron? Co-lead with him? Continue serving him? The Witch-King could kick Sauron’s ass in a fight, no problem.
I think considering the fact that because of Sauron he’s stuck in this halfway through death kind of plane of existence, and that he has been enslaved and controlled for thousands of years, I think he’d kick his ass and take the throne. Oh and hed make Sauron what he used to be.
Yeah, I think even fully powered Sauron wouldn’t be able to take the Witch-King. I mean, he gets his ass kicked by a large greyhound in the Silmarillion. There’s literally never been a single fight Sauron has got into without losing.
You misunderstand. Sauron doesn't win battles. He wins wars. He single-handedly forced all elves from Middle Earth, lead to the demise of the dwarven kingdoms, crippled Gondor, and did this while in command of Angmar. Witch King is a powerful fighter, but he's not Sauron - he could never be half as smart or a quarter as tactical as the Lord of Mordor, who directed the Witch King's power.
If the Witch King was a government assassin, Sauron would be the entire intelligence organisation they work for.
Uhhh, I have no recollection of Sauron forcing elves to leave Middle Earth. And actually, he wasn’t in command of Angmar, he simply told the Witch-King to do it, and it was exclusively the Witch-King who crippled Gondor. He killed the king, led the war, Sauron was actually hiding in the east at the time cause he was terrified Gandalf was gonna get him and had no contact with the Witch-King at all. The Witch-King did all his stuff under his own direction. Sauron said “destroy the Dunadain and screw up Middle Earth” and left it at that. Tolkien is explicit on this.
Honestly I see this all the time and it annoys me. Sauron has done basically nothing to Middle Earth. The Witch-King has done virtually everything. Gondor, Arnor, the north, they’re all the Witch-King. Sauron’s biggest impact was making Mirkwood dark and scary.
If you say so
Tolkien says that it’s possible that Sauron told the Witch-King to go to Angmar, but said nothing about him having any continued influence over it. And we know for a fact that Sauron was in hiding far away in the East when the Witch-King took Minas Ithil and started breaking Gondor. So if the Witch-King did all that under his own steam, and Tolkien said nothing about Sauron directing Angmar, we can be pretty confident Angmar was all the Witch-King too. Which means 90% of Middle Earth’s issues are due to the Witch-King.
I’ve got a theory that the Dead Marshes were created by the Witch-King, as they came into existence just after he took Minas Ithil and created Minas Morgul and they seem very, very similar to the Barrow-Wights the Witch-King created in the North (corpses of his enemies filled with fell spirits, they’re both literally the same thing in concept, if different in terms of power. But there’s a lot more Dead then Barrow-Wights so it makes sense they’d be weaker). It certainly wasn’t Sauron who created them, he was hiding far away from Mordor at the time and undead don’t exactly create themselves, so I don’t see how it could be anything else.
Today’s the 20th anniversary of the Two Towers movie! What’s everyone’s likes, dislikes, and thoughts on it?
It's the best film because it is the hardest to make work, but it is still satisfactory.
I like it but the two things I don’t like are 1, Arwen, and 2, Sam’s character getting butchered when he is a jerk to Gollum. He is suspicious of Gollum in the book, but he doesn’t bully, belittle, abuse, and generally be awful to Gollum like the movie. Book Sam would never do that even to an orc, he simply couldn’t be that cruel. And because of Sam’s atrocious behaviour, he keeps getting into fights with Frodo that never happened in the book. This is actually the biggest complaint I have with the LotR movies.
Otherwise I’m generally happy with TT, it ties with RotK in terms of my favourite Tolkien movies. I still like Fellowship, Unexpected Journey, and Desolation of Smaug (if you hit skip on all the Tauriel and Kili bits, anyway) better, but it’s still my favourite movie ever next to those three.
Today’s the 20th anniversary of the Two Towers movie! What’s everyone’s likes, dislikes, and thoughts on it?
It's the best film because it is the hardest to make work, but it is still satisfactory.
I like it but the two things I don’t like are 1, Arwen, and 2, Sam’s character getting butchered when he is a jerk to Gollum. He is suspicious of Gollum in the book, but he doesn’t bully, belittle, abuse, and generally be awful to Gollum like the movie. Book Sam would never do that even to an orc, he simply couldn’t be that cruel. And because of Sam’s atrocious behaviour, he keeps getting into fights with Frodo that never happened in the book. This is actually the biggest complaint I have with the LotR movies.
Otherwise I’m generally happy with TT, it ties with RotK in terms of my favourite Tolkien movies. I still like Fellowship, Unexpected Journey, and Desolation of Smaug (if you hit skip on all the Tauriel and Kili bits, anyway) better, but it’s still my favourite movie ever next to those three.
I actually thought Sam's behaviour was in character and made Frodo's sympathy more alluring and interesting. I loved it! Arwen tho... Have to agree, she was terrible.
It seemed far more realistic, that Sam would hate a twisted creature that tries to kill him repeatedly.
Yeah, it’s still ridiculously out of character for him to be mean. Frodo sympathized with Gollum in the book and I have no problem with that part of the movie, it’s great. Just don’t have Sam be cruel. It’s the last thing his character would do.
Forgot to mention in the original rant, it’s also selfish. In the book Sam basically becomes Gandalf in that he watches over Frodo and protects him. He’d never burden him with his own personal problems.
Today’s the 20th anniversary of the Two Towers movie! What’s everyone’s likes, dislikes, and thoughts on it?
My personal favorite.
Rohan's battle with both the Uruk army and their own inner darkness is so great to watch. Also, that's where you get to see so much of the world on display. Fellowship establishes it but then in TT everyone is off doing their own thing in a different neck of the woods. Return brings everything together. But TT is great because you get to see so much of Middle Earth happening at once. Superb worldbuilding on screen that I think does justice to what Tolkien was best at.
Also...When Gimli tells Aragorn to toss him...that's just masterful character development at its finest.
Yeah, that’s my favourite part too. The world building is just great.
Tbh my exposure to LotR is literally just reading The Hobbit and hearing about the Aragorn toe thing.
Go watch the movies, they’re good.
I plan to, but I haven't read the books yet. Does it make much of a difference whether you watch the films or read the books first?
Honestly I’d recommend watching the films first, the book is not an easy read and it’s extremely complicated. The movie gives you a stripped down version of the book, managing to keep nearly all of the book but making it a bit simpler and more digestible. And then reading the books after watching will expand and enhance your experience.
Oh yeah and DO NOT watch the Hobbit theatrical editions. Watch the extended, or don’t watch it at all. The theatricals are awful and don’t even feel Tolkien.
Tbh my exposure to LotR is literally just reading The Hobbit and hearing about the Aragorn toe thing.
Go watch the movies, they’re good.
I plan to, but I haven't read the books yet. Does it make much of a difference whether you watch the films or read the books first?
Honestly I’d recommend watching the films first, the book is not an easy read and it’s extremely complicated. The movie gives you a stripped down version of the book, managing to keep nearly all of the book but making it a bit simpler and more digestible. And then reading the books after watching will expand and enhance your experience.
Oh yeah and DO NOT watch the Hobbit theatrical editions. Watch the extended, or don’t watch it at all. The theatricals are awful and don’t even feel Tolkien.
I've seen the Hobbit films. They're really very good standalone films, but not the most faithful of adaptations.
Tolkien's writing style isn't complicated at all. It can be somewhat hard to follow at times, but it's by no means complicated. I'm probably going to read the books first.
Tbh my exposure to LotR is literally just reading The Hobbit and hearing about the Aragorn toe thing.
Go watch the movies, they’re good.
I plan to, but I haven't read the books yet. Does it make much of a difference whether you watch the films or read the books first?
Honestly I’d recommend watching the films first, the book is not an easy read and it’s extremely complicated. The movie gives you a stripped down version of the book, managing to keep nearly all of the book but making it a bit simpler and more digestible. And then reading the books after watching will expand and enhance your experience.
Oh yeah and DO NOT watch the Hobbit theatrical editions. Watch the extended, or don’t watch it at all. The theatricals are awful and don’t even feel Tolkien.
I've seen the Hobbit films. They're really very good standalone films, but not the most faithful of adaptations.
Tolkien's writing style isn't complicated at all. It can be somewhat hard to follow at times, but it's by no means complicated. I'm probably going to read the books first.
Actually, virtually every change in them is completely Tolkien, he wrote that he wanted to rewrite the Hobbit and most changes were following what he outlined. So everyone screaming that it’s not Tolkien just doesn’t know Tolkien enough.
Actually, no. It’s got nothing to do with his style. LotR is ridiculously complex, with dozens upon dozens of characters, plots, events, and all. I didn’t even understand half of it when I first read it cause it was so hard to follow. The introduction of LotR is more complex the the entire Hobbit book.
Tolkien says that it’s possible that Sauron told the Witch-King to go to Angmar, but said nothing about him having any continued influence over it. And we know for a fact that Sauron was in hiding far away in the East when the Witch-King took Minas Ithil and started breaking Gondor. So if the Witch-King did all that under his own steam, and Tolkien said nothing about Sauron directing Angmar, we can be pretty confident Angmar was all the Witch-King too. Which means 90% of Middle Earth’s issues are due to the Witch-King.
I'm the Valar (leader and creator) of The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit/Anything Tolkien Cult!
Member of the Cult of Cats, High Elf of the Elven Guild, and Sauce Priest & Sauce Smith of the Supreme Court of Sauce.
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I’ve got a theory that the Dead Marshes were created by the Witch-King, as they came into existence just after he took Minas Ithil and created Minas Morgul and they seem very, very similar to the Barrow-Wights the Witch-King created in the North (corpses of his enemies filled with fell spirits, they’re both literally the same thing in concept, if different in terms of power. But there’s a lot more Dead then Barrow-Wights so it makes sense they’d be weaker). It certainly wasn’t Sauron who created them, he was hiding far away from Mordor at the time and undead don’t exactly create themselves, so I don’t see how it could be anything else.
I'm the Valar (leader and creator) of The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit/Anything Tolkien Cult!
Member of the Cult of Cats, High Elf of the Elven Guild, and Sauce Priest & Sauce Smith of the Supreme Court of Sauce.
If you want some casual roleplay/adventures in Middle Earth, check out The Wild's Edge Tavern, a LotR/Middle Earth tavern!
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Bilbo was a commoner who rolled too many nat 20s
[REDACTED]
….
Why would you come here just to say that.
Back in black baby
Anything goes, right?
[REDACTED]
I mean, it’s new people joining so we can’t complain, we haven’t got many of those lately. Welcome and all the rest.
I'm the Valar (leader and creator) of The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit/Anything Tolkien Cult!
Member of the Cult of Cats, High Elf of the Elven Guild, and Sauce Priest & Sauce Smith of the Supreme Court of Sauce.
If you want some casual roleplay/adventures in Middle Earth, check out The Wild's Edge Tavern, a LotR/Middle Earth tavern!
JOIN TIAMAT'S CONGA LINE!
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Today’s the 20th anniversary of the Two Towers movie! What’s everyone’s likes, dislikes, and thoughts on it?
I'm the Valar (leader and creator) of The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit/Anything Tolkien Cult!
Member of the Cult of Cats, High Elf of the Elven Guild, and Sauce Priest & Sauce Smith of the Supreme Court of Sauce.
If you want some casual roleplay/adventures in Middle Earth, check out The Wild's Edge Tavern, a LotR/Middle Earth tavern!
JOIN TIAMAT'S CONGA LINE!
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It's the best film because it is the hardest to make work, but it is still satisfactory.
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
I like it but the two things I don’t like are 1, Arwen, and 2, Sam’s character getting butchered when he is a jerk to Gollum. He is suspicious of Gollum in the book, but he doesn’t bully, belittle, abuse, and generally be awful to Gollum like the movie. Book Sam would never do that even to an orc, he simply couldn’t be that cruel. And because of Sam’s atrocious behaviour, he keeps getting into fights with Frodo that never happened in the book. This is actually the biggest complaint I have with the LotR movies.
Otherwise I’m generally happy with TT, it ties with RotK in terms of my favourite Tolkien movies. I still like Fellowship, Unexpected Journey, and Desolation of Smaug (if you hit skip on all the Tauriel and Kili bits, anyway) better, but it’s still my favourite movie ever next to those three.
I'm the Valar (leader and creator) of The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit/Anything Tolkien Cult!
Member of the Cult of Cats, High Elf of the Elven Guild, and Sauce Priest & Sauce Smith of the Supreme Court of Sauce.
If you want some casual roleplay/adventures in Middle Earth, check out The Wild's Edge Tavern, a LotR/Middle Earth tavern!
JOIN TIAMAT'S CONGA LINE!
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Tbh my exposure to LotR is literally just reading The Hobbit and hearing about the Aragorn toe thing.
[REDACTED]
Go watch the movies, they’re good.
I'm the Valar (leader and creator) of The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit/Anything Tolkien Cult!
Member of the Cult of Cats, High Elf of the Elven Guild, and Sauce Priest & Sauce Smith of the Supreme Court of Sauce.
If you want some casual roleplay/adventures in Middle Earth, check out The Wild's Edge Tavern, a LotR/Middle Earth tavern!
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I actually thought Sam's behaviour was in character and made Frodo's sympathy more alluring and interesting. I loved it!
Arwen tho... Have to agree, she was terrible.
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
It seemed far more realistic, that Sam would hate a twisted creature that tries to kill him repeatedly.
Frequent Eladrin || They/Them, but accept all pronouns
Luz Noceda would like to remind you that you're worth loving!
I plan to, but I haven't read the books yet. Does it make much of a difference whether you watch the films or read the books first?
[REDACTED]
Yeah, it’s still ridiculously out of character for him to be mean. Frodo sympathized with Gollum in the book and I have no problem with that part of the movie, it’s great. Just don’t have Sam be cruel. It’s the last thing his character would do.
Forgot to mention in the original rant, it’s also selfish. In the book Sam basically becomes Gandalf in that he watches over Frodo and protects him. He’d never burden him with his own personal problems.
I'm the Valar (leader and creator) of The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit/Anything Tolkien Cult!
Member of the Cult of Cats, High Elf of the Elven Guild, and Sauce Priest & Sauce Smith of the Supreme Court of Sauce.
If you want some casual roleplay/adventures in Middle Earth, check out The Wild's Edge Tavern, a LotR/Middle Earth tavern!
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Yeah, that’s my favourite part too. The world building is just great.
I'm the Valar (leader and creator) of The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit/Anything Tolkien Cult!
Member of the Cult of Cats, High Elf of the Elven Guild, and Sauce Priest & Sauce Smith of the Supreme Court of Sauce.
If you want some casual roleplay/adventures in Middle Earth, check out The Wild's Edge Tavern, a LotR/Middle Earth tavern!
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Honestly I’d recommend watching the films first, the book is not an easy read and it’s extremely complicated. The movie gives you a stripped down version of the book, managing to keep nearly all of the book but making it a bit simpler and more digestible. And then reading the books after watching will expand and enhance your experience.
Oh yeah and DO NOT watch the Hobbit theatrical editions. Watch the extended, or don’t watch it at all. The theatricals are awful and don’t even feel Tolkien.
I'm the Valar (leader and creator) of The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit/Anything Tolkien Cult!
Member of the Cult of Cats, High Elf of the Elven Guild, and Sauce Priest & Sauce Smith of the Supreme Court of Sauce.
If you want some casual roleplay/adventures in Middle Earth, check out The Wild's Edge Tavern, a LotR/Middle Earth tavern!
JOIN TIAMAT'S CONGA LINE!
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I've seen the Hobbit films. They're really very good standalone films, but not the most faithful of adaptations.
Tolkien's writing style isn't complicated at all. It can be somewhat hard to follow at times, but it's by no means complicated. I'm probably going to read the books first.
[REDACTED]
Actually, virtually every change in them is completely Tolkien, he wrote that he wanted to rewrite the Hobbit and most changes were following what he outlined. So everyone screaming that it’s not Tolkien just doesn’t know Tolkien enough.
Actually, no. It’s got nothing to do with his style. LotR is ridiculously complex, with dozens upon dozens of characters, plots, events, and all. I didn’t even understand half of it when I first read it cause it was so hard to follow. The introduction of LotR is more complex the the entire Hobbit book.
I'm the Valar (leader and creator) of The Lord of the Rings/The Hobbit/Anything Tolkien Cult!
Member of the Cult of Cats, High Elf of the Elven Guild, and Sauce Priest & Sauce Smith of the Supreme Court of Sauce.
If you want some casual roleplay/adventures in Middle Earth, check out The Wild's Edge Tavern, a LotR/Middle Earth tavern!
JOIN TIAMAT'S CONGA LINE!
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