Another thing, in our games we do attunement differently. It usually doesn't take a long rest to attune to most objects. Many magic items that we put in our games are there to be used in the moment or are part of a sort of puzzle, so it doesn't always work to have them wait. They still can only attune to 3 items at a time, but it doesn't take a long time to attune to them.
To be clear, not every magic item even requires attunement. Typically only specific (and a little more powerful than your Longsword +1 are types of things that require attunement). So if it's for a puzzle, and like a magic thing made just for it - I'd just (if they're homebrewing it?) remove the Attunement requirement.
Another thing, in our games we do attunement differently. It usually doesn't take a long rest to attune to most objects. Many magic items that we put in our games are there to be used in the moment or are part of a sort of puzzle, so it doesn't always work to have them wait. They still can only attune to 3 items at a time, but it doesn't take a long time to attune to them.
To be clear, not every magic item even requires attunement. Typically only specific (and a little more powerful than your Longsword +1 are types of things that require attunement). So if it's for a puzzle, and like a magic thing made just for it - I'd just (if they're homebrewing it?) remove the Attunement requirement.
Yeah, I know that not all magic items require attunement, but some do and we usually ignore it. If it was a really big item though, and it was received as a reward for a fight and not used as a tool in it, then I might create a challenge that if accomplished would allow the character to attune to it. I think it would be cool if certain powerful items had some sort of skill challenge needed to master it, but I ain't certain what that would be.
I am a complete idiot when it comes to throwing fair combat encounters at low-level parties. When running a game for a new group last summer, one of the players was using their out-of-world game knowledge to their advantage, so I decided to give the manticore they were facing a fire-breath attack, dealing 2d6 damage in a 15-foot cone on a failed save, or half on a success. The manticore downed all but one member of the party, who survived because the player scared off the manticore by yelling at it in Orcish.
Another time, I had the absolutely genius idea of throwing 5 kobolds and a gelatinous cube at a party of two 1st-level adventurers. Guess how that ended?
There's a reason why I mostly stick to encounters that other people have written
Well, first - for the person using their player knowledge vs their character knowledge.
One thing to do - if you feel as the DM, that the character(s) would not know this is say, "Hey, Bob. Just so you know, the information you're using wouldn't be common knowledge to your character Asporgatus the Apostate, because manticores are not commonly known. I'd appreciate if you separate player knowledge from character knowledge."
If they continue? The Manticore, sensing that Asporgatus seems to be quite wise at knowing its weakness - begins targeting him only.
As for your other encounter... 5 kobolds and a gelatinous cube... against TWO level one characters? That's going to murder them and murder them quickly.
First, the kobolds out number the two players. No matter what combo they are - even fighter + cleric would be hard pressed against 5 kobolds.
Add a gelatinous cube as well?
Probably at level 1, keep it 1:1 ratio with low level monsters. A pair of scouting kobolds would have been better suited.
Yes, a Polymorphed elf would be unable to maintain attunement to a sword that can only be attuned to an elf. RAW, that's how it works, but... I dunno, that seems kinda stupid, and kinda more bookkeeping than I want to deal with necessarily, so I would ignore it.
Now death on the other hand..! Well, people often complain that death is too consequence-free. Did you know that death ends your attunement to an item? It does! Is this penalty significant enough to now say that death has real consequences? ... No! It's another fairly pointless delay, in my opinion.
As for fire-breathing manticores... So we have at least one round of meta-gaming, then one round of "don't do it again," and only on the third round would the monster start targeting only that character? That fight is about to end either way. We're talking like one attack, probably, which he might have even taken anyway. This is not a useful tool. Instead, finish the fight, maybe even finish the session, and then explain to the player the issue again. This is their second strike, and we know what happens on the third. (Or, just get over it -- as I've discussed before, players learning things is cool and good, actually.)
One of the problems I see with encounters is the need to adapt them to party size, and the structure of the CR table. A single CR 1 should be slightly overmatching a single Level 1 — say about 1.25 to 1.
enough to be a challenge but not to much. A CR 1/2 should be about 3 to 2 players, a CR 1/4 a 2:1 ratio. I mean, basically, use CR like a level for monsters, only give them up to like level 40 to keep it challenging.
sadly, they opted not to do that, and to this day I don’t understand why. I can find not one decent reason for it, and it makes it far more complex for DMs to create encounters.
I am trying out a new set up this next campaign that does that. So far it seems to be really good and simple-ish.
this last time, I did a 1:1 plus 1 per 5 PCs, trying to balance it out as I went. Large parties create some issues, lol. But it seems to have worked out. Then, at the end, I just let them have all the AoE crap they could stand since it was in the area of a 20 to 1 ratio, low level demons to party.
1 cube to 3 party members, lol. I still use that one. But then I also use the trap door into a cube, still, so maybe I break that rule…
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
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I allow up to seven items to be attuned at a time, you can attune on a short rest, but only two short rests in a day give benefit. The catch is that you can attune no more than two of any given kind of item. But I am also known to give out cantrip wands, lol. And I allow players to turn their focus into magical items. Takes a bit, lol.
potions and balms and salves don’t need it, but most items, even “typical” require attunement if the spell is over 1st level. So, like, nearly everything. Legendary and Artifacts take up more than one slot, depending on their power level — they may have sets of abilities you have to unlock using a slot. They are also all very intelligent.
other things: all magic costs at least spell point, lol. So even cantrips.
um, I use a dice chain. Because I rewrote all the elemental spells, I have a way to increase damage by “putting more into it” and either adding an additional die, extending range, radius, or duration, or moving to a higher damage die, or combinations.
a lot of people will be mad at me outside my regulars because fireball isn’t as damaging on the surface and is higher level. Then they will realize that cantrip called “match” can be upped from a d4 to a d24, lol. And then when they do get fireball, they can burn small villages to ash with one spell. 9th level Elemental spells are able to fry a half mile radius.
*shrugs* I wanted magic to be magical.
wait until they visit the Village that has a Wizard who is retired and keeps it safe by casting levitation over the whole place. Then find out he will give them the spell for it for free. (It is just levitate.)
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
As for fire-breathing manticores... So we have at least one round of meta-gaming, then one round of "don't do it again," and only on the third round would the monster start targeting only that character? That fight is about to end either way. We're talking like one attack, probably, which he might have even taken anyway. This is not a useful tool. Instead, finish the fight, maybe even finish the session, and then explain to the player the issue again. This is their second strike, and we know what happens on the third. (Or, just get over it -- as I've discussed before, players learning things is cool and good, actually.)
Thankfully, for myself, no joke - the three games I run - all of my players are brand new to D&D. And the 4th game I ran (on hold since COVID, because people fear technology!) - all but one person was brand new and that one person had only been playing for about 6 months. So I am quite fortunate, for myself, to not have to deal with "player knowledge vs character knowledge."
I wouldn't go the fire breathing route, myself - I would, however, definitely mention player knowledge vs character knowledge. And if it continued, I probably would target the player's character; or at the very least make the party roll a Knowledge check of some kind (Nature, Survival) to see if they know anything. If they don't (and looking at the Manticore, I am not sure what weakness it has that can be exploited?) - then I'd assume the character should not know it and behave accordingly. Have the manticore throw a few more spikes, staying at that 200 foot range (which it can do) which is out of range of most spells (so arrows). And then either fly off, bored - to circle back later and keep the party panicking - following, and swopping down and tearing up their tent or bags, and flying off. And become a pain in the arse to the party to deal with. ;)
question: while we’re on the subject of encounter balance, two players versus four goblins. Fair?
Depends on what skills the players have and whether they have modern weapons.
Also depends on environment. If the players are in a Macy's tough shit for them. If they are in a Cabela's or even a Home Depot, their chances go way up.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
They’re a level 1 wizard and fighter. I don’t exactly know how dangerous I want it to be, for I merely wish to know how difficult it is. It’s located in a forest where the goblins surprise attack the players.
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Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
They’re a level 1 wizard and fighter. I don’t exactly know how dangerous I want it to be, for I merely wish to know how difficult it is. It’s located in a forest where the goblins surprise attack the players.
Surprise makes it a very dangerous encounter, with a couple lucky rolls those gobbos could easily drop the Wiz before the Wiz even gets to act. Then the Fighter is a sitting duck. Without surprise, if the Wiz rolls higher than the goblins in initiative and has the right spell, like sleep or burning hands, they could potentially take down 3-4 gobbos singlehandedly.
They’re a level 1 wizard and fighter. I don’t exactly know how dangerous I want it to be, for I merely wish to know how difficult it is. It’s located in a forest where the goblins surprise attack the players.
Surprise attack is going to turn it against the heroes.
They’re a level 1 wizard and fighter. I don’t exactly know how dangerous I want it to be, for I merely wish to know how difficult it is. It’s located in a forest where the goblins surprise attack the players.
Surprise attack is going to turn it against the heroes.
Are you DMing Lost Mines of Phandalen?
Yeah
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Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
They’re a level 1 wizard and fighter. I don’t exactly know how dangerous I want it to be, for I merely wish to know how difficult it is. It’s located in a forest where the goblins surprise attack the players.
Surprise makes it a very dangerous encounter, with a couple lucky rolls those gobbos could easily drop the Wiz before the Wiz even gets to act. Then the Fighter is a sitting duck. Without surprise, if the Wiz rolls higher than the goblins in initiative and has the right spell, like sleep or burning hands, they could potentially take down 3-4 gobbos singlehandedly.
Good to know.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
They’re a level 1 wizard and fighter. I don’t exactly know how dangerous I want it to be, for I merely wish to know how difficult it is. It’s located in a forest where the goblins surprise attack the players.
Surprise attack is going to turn it against the heroes.
Are you DMing Lost Mines of Phandalen?
Yeah
Yeah - you're going to have to modify that whole encounter and all the encounters therein.
They’re a level 1 wizard and fighter. I don’t exactly know how dangerous I want it to be, for I merely wish to know how difficult it is. It’s located in a forest where the goblins surprise attack the players.
Surprise attack is going to turn it against the heroes.
Are you DMing Lost Mines of Phandalen?
Yeah
Yeah - you're going to have to modify that whole encounter and all the encounters therein.
Ok. More work for me. Yayyyy….
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
They’re a level 1 wizard and fighter. I don’t exactly know how dangerous I want it to be, for I merely wish to know how difficult it is. It’s located in a forest where the goblins surprise attack the players.
Surprise attack is going to turn it against the heroes.
Are you DMing Lost Mines of Phandalen?
Yeah
Yeah - you're going to have to modify that whole encounter and all the encounters therein.
Ok. More work for me. Yayyyy….
Yeah because...
there's a whole cave full of goblins... there's a bugbear who has a wolf who has advantage when a companion is within 5 feet - which would be the bugbear... there's the brigands...
Definitely would be beyond lethal. Either that or start them at Level 3, to give them a better chance. An edge over a lot of the fights - but the numbers will be against them.
To be clear, not every magic item even requires attunement. Typically only specific (and a little more powerful than your Longsword +1 are types of things that require attunement). So if it's for a puzzle, and like a magic thing made just for it - I'd just (if they're homebrewing it?) remove the Attunement requirement.
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
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Yeah, I know that not all magic items require attunement, but some do and we usually ignore it. If it was a really big item though, and it was received as a reward for a fight and not used as a tool in it, then I might create a challenge that if accomplished would allow the character to attune to it. I think it would be cool if certain powerful items had some sort of skill challenge needed to master it, but I ain't certain what that would be.
Well, first - for the person using their player knowledge vs their character knowledge.
One thing to do - if you feel as the DM, that the character(s) would not know this is say, "Hey, Bob. Just so you know, the information you're using wouldn't be common knowledge to your character Asporgatus the Apostate, because manticores are not commonly known. I'd appreciate if you separate player knowledge from character knowledge."
If they continue? The Manticore, sensing that Asporgatus seems to be quite wise at knowing its weakness - begins targeting him only.
As for your other encounter... 5 kobolds and a gelatinous cube... against TWO level one characters? That's going to murder them and murder them quickly.
First, the kobolds out number the two players. No matter what combo they are - even fighter + cleric would be hard pressed against 5 kobolds.
Add a gelatinous cube as well?
Probably at level 1, keep it 1:1 ratio with low level monsters. A pair of scouting kobolds would have been better suited.
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
Yes, a Polymorphed elf would be unable to maintain attunement to a sword that can only be attuned to an elf. RAW, that's how it works, but... I dunno, that seems kinda stupid, and kinda more bookkeeping than I want to deal with necessarily, so I would ignore it.
Now death on the other hand..! Well, people often complain that death is too consequence-free. Did you know that death ends your attunement to an item? It does! Is this penalty significant enough to now say that death has real consequences? ... No! It's another fairly pointless delay, in my opinion.
As for fire-breathing manticores... So we have at least one round of meta-gaming, then one round of "don't do it again," and only on the third round would the monster start targeting only that character? That fight is about to end either way. We're talking like one attack, probably, which he might have even taken anyway. This is not a useful tool. Instead, finish the fight, maybe even finish the session, and then explain to the player the issue again. This is their second strike, and we know what happens on the third. (Or, just get over it -- as I've discussed before, players learning things is cool and good, actually.)
One of the problems I see with encounters is the need to adapt them to party size, and the structure of the CR table. A single CR 1 should be slightly overmatching a single Level 1 — say about 1.25 to 1.
enough to be a challenge but not to much. A CR 1/2 should be about 3 to 2 players, a CR 1/4 a 2:1 ratio. I mean, basically, use CR like a level for monsters, only give them up to like level 40 to keep it challenging.
sadly, they opted not to do that, and to this day I don’t understand why. I can find not one decent reason for it, and it makes it far more complex for DMs to create encounters.
I am trying out a new set up this next campaign that does that. So far it seems to be really good and simple-ish.
this last time, I did a 1:1 plus 1 per 5 PCs, trying to balance it out as I went. Large parties create some issues, lol. But it seems to have worked out. Then, at the end, I just let them have all the AoE crap they could stand since it was in the area of a 20 to 1 ratio, low level demons to party.
1 cube to 3 party members, lol. I still use that one. But then I also use the trap door into a cube, still, so maybe I break that rule…
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Ah, attunement and house rule thing!
I allow up to seven items to be attuned at a time, you can attune on a short rest, but only two short rests in a day give benefit. The catch is that you can attune no more than two of any given kind of item. But I am also known to give out cantrip wands, lol. And I allow players to turn their focus into magical items. Takes a bit, lol.
potions and balms and salves don’t need it, but most items, even “typical” require attunement if the spell is over 1st level. So, like, nearly everything. Legendary and Artifacts take up more than one slot, depending on their power level — they may have sets of abilities you have to unlock using a slot. They are also all very intelligent.
other things: all magic costs at least spell point, lol. So even cantrips.
um, I use a dice chain. Because I rewrote all the elemental spells, I have a way to increase damage by “putting more into it” and either adding an additional die, extending range, radius, or duration, or moving to a higher damage die, or combinations.
a lot of people will be mad at me outside my regulars because fireball isn’t as damaging on the surface and is higher level. Then they will realize that cantrip called “match” can be upped from a d4 to a d24, lol. And then when they do get fireball, they can burn small villages to ash with one spell. 9th level Elemental spells are able to fry a half mile radius.
*shrugs* I wanted magic to be magical.
wait until they visit the Village that has a Wizard who is retired and keeps it safe by casting levitation over the whole place. Then find out he will give them the spell for it for free. (It is just levitate.)
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
question: while we’re on the subject of encounter balance, two players versus four goblins. Fair?
Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
I am The Grand Envisioner!
What level(s) are the characters, and how hard do you want the fight to be?
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Thankfully, for myself, no joke - the three games I run - all of my players are brand new to D&D. And the 4th game I ran (on hold since COVID, because people fear technology!) - all but one person was brand new and that one person had only been playing for about 6 months. So I am quite fortunate, for myself, to not have to deal with "player knowledge vs character knowledge."
I wouldn't go the fire breathing route, myself - I would, however, definitely mention player knowledge vs character knowledge. And if it continued, I probably would target the player's character; or at the very least make the party roll a Knowledge check of some kind (Nature, Survival) to see if they know anything. If they don't (and looking at the Manticore, I am not sure what weakness it has that can be exploited?) - then I'd assume the character should not know it and behave accordingly. Have the manticore throw a few more spikes, staying at that 200 foot range (which it can do) which is out of range of most spells (so arrows). And then either fly off, bored - to circle back later and keep the party panicking - following, and swopping down and tearing up their tent or bags, and flying off. And become a pain in the arse to the party to deal with. ;)
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
Depends on what skills the players have and whether they have modern weapons.
Also depends on environment. If the players are in a Macy's tough shit for them. If they are in a Cabela's or even a Home Depot, their chances go way up.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
They’re a level 1 wizard and fighter. I don’t exactly know how dangerous I want it to be, for I merely wish to know how difficult it is.
Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
I am The Grand Envisioner!
And what is the mixture of classes?
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
I am The Grand Envisioner!
Surprise makes it a very dangerous encounter, with a couple lucky rolls those gobbos could easily drop the Wiz before the Wiz even gets to act. Then the Fighter is a sitting duck. Without surprise, if the Wiz rolls higher than the goblins in initiative and has the right spell, like sleep or burning hands, they could potentially take down 3-4 gobbos singlehandedly.
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Surprise attack is going to turn it against the heroes.
Are you DMing Lost Mines of Phandalen?
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
Yeah
Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
I am The Grand Envisioner!
Good to know.
Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
I am The Grand Envisioner!
Yeah - you're going to have to modify that whole encounter and all the encounters therein.
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up
Ok. More work for me. Yayyyy….
Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
I am The Grand Envisioner!
Yeah because...
there's a whole cave full of goblins... there's a bugbear who has a wolf who has advantage when a companion is within 5 feet - which would be the bugbear... there's the brigands...
Definitely would be beyond lethal. Either that or start them at Level 3, to give them a better chance. An edge over a lot of the fights - but the numbers will be against them.
Check out my publication on DMs Guild: https://www.dmsguild.com/browse.php?author=Tawmis%20Logue
Check out my comedy web series - Neverending Nights: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Wr4-u9-zw0&list=PLbRG7dzFI-u3EJd0usasgDrrFO3mZ1lOZ
Need a character story/background written up? I do it for free (but also take donations!) - https://forums.giantitp.com/showthread.php?591882-Need-a-character-background-written-up