When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with the disguise kit and the poisoner's kit. Your disguise is indiscernible to the casual observer. If a wary creature suspects something is amiss, you have advantage on any Charisma (Deception) check you make to avoid detection.
Assassinate
Starting at 3rd level, You can Sneak Attack using Improvised Weapons, Unarmed Strikes and any melee weapon that lacks the heavy, special and two-handed property.
In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.
Ambush
Beginning at 9th level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies.You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a turn in the combat yet.
Moreover, if you are invisible or successfully stealthed at the start of combat you gain a surprise round.
Cloaked in Shadow
By 13th level, you have learned to become one with the shadows. When you are in an area of dim light or darkness, you can use your action to become invisible. You remain invisible until you make an attack, cast a spell, or are in an area of bright light.
Additionally, the amount of doses of potent poison now equal double your proficiency bonus.
Death Strike
Starting at 17th level, you become a master of instant death. When you attack and hit a creature that is surprised, it must make a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your Dexterity modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, double the damage of your attack against the creature.
Notes:
Moved the Assassinate feature to 9th to make this the Subclass that can Sneak Attack with almost all weapons.
Took out the worse Actor feat features and moved the only good part of it to 3rd level.
Added an invisibility feature to have an easier chance to sneak attack or surprise attack an enemy.
Made it so you get double the poison amount if you took the poisoner feat.
Edits:
Shuffled some words around splitting assassinate in half,added an extra bit to ambush and removed the extra weapon proficiencies.
I like the attempt but you took the iconic assassin feature, the crit, and moved it to 9th level. Instead it gets improvised weapons prof? While that’s nice in practice how often is it needed outside of very narrow specific situations that are almost once a campaign.
moving the disguise to earlier is a nice touch
the invisibility is cool but most games end before 13th. It’s a fun idea and honestly I nice thing, it doesn’t solve the assassins problems.
my main issues with this are the fact that assassinate still relies on wonky surprise mechanics. It’s now a 9th level feature. Not a fan of that. I would much rather it be a 3rd level with it being crit if you are not detected at the start of combat. It stops other people making the class feature useless.
the potent poisons I like the idea of and frankly I think part of the assassins kit should be a big old table of poisons it can make with gold cost or hours scavenging for herbs. Various effects, high damage, stuns, paralyse, blindness, muteness. they really should lean into that more
I moved it to 9th because of that Wonky mechanic, its such a niche situation that it would only work if you initiate it outside of combat before initiative is rolled.
Idk giving the ability to sneak attack with almost all weapons is pretty awesome imo, you could use your unarmed strikes,any simple weapon, most martial melee weapons like a Longsword or Battleaxe if you already had improvised weapon proficiency.
I am debating about removing the heavy,special and two handed restriction for Sneak attacks but sneak attacking with a greatsword or glaive feels a bit much.
I edited it so you can see the part that lets you Sneak Attack with almost all weapons more clearly.
I moved it to 9th because of that Wonky mechanic, its such a niche situation that it would only work if you initiate it outside of combat before initiative is rolled.
Idk giving the ability to sneak attack with almost all weapons is pretty awesome imo, you could use your unarmed strikes,any simple weapon, most martial melee weapons like a Longsword or Battleaxe if you already had improvised weapon proficiency.
I am debating about removing the heavy,special and two handed restriction for Sneak attacks but sneak attacking with a greatsword or glaive feels a bit much.
I edited it so you can see the part that lets you Sneak Attack with almost all weapons more clearly.
But when is using an improvised weapon the right choice? It’s great if you have no other choices. Sure I could sneak attack with a fist, a fork or whatever, but when is that better than just a rapier.
people play assassin for the assassinate. Delaying it delays the identity of the assassin. And I don’t think what’s given here gives it enough of an identity to match it. I like the ideas. But I think what you’ve got should be in addition to a de-janked assassinate at level 3. Moving it to level 9 doesn’t solve anything. It doesn’t fix the initiative set up
I moved it to 9th because of that Wonky mechanic, its such a niche situation that it would only work if you initiate it outside of combat before initiative is rolled.
Idk giving the ability to sneak attack with almost all weapons is pretty awesome imo, you could use your unarmed strikes,any simple weapon, most martial melee weapons like a Longsword or Battleaxe if you already had improvised weapon proficiency.
I am debating about removing the heavy,special and two handed restriction for Sneak attacks but sneak attacking with a greatsword or glaive feels a bit much.
I edited it so you can see the part that lets you Sneak Attack with almost all weapons more clearly.
But when is using an improvised weapon the right choice? It’s great if you have no other choices. Sure I could sneak attack with a fist, a fork or whatever, but when is that better than just a rapier.
people play assassin for the assassinate. Delaying it delays the identity of the assassin. And I don’t think what’s given here gives it enough of an identity to match it. I like the ideas. But I think what you’ve got should be in addition to a de-janked assassinate at level 3. Moving it to level 9 doesn’t solve anything. It doesn’t fix the initiative set up
Honestly If you're able to unjank the Assassinate feature put it back to 3rd level,then move the Impostor proficiencies to 9th with the double potent poison.
That way you get you that perfect Assassin, I'm just not able to figure out a not broken way to fix Assassinates Surprise crit thing outside of adding the invisibility.
Like I get the idea they were going for the Subclass as a whole,its like the Agent 47 subclass with its disguises but it ended up being underwhelming. Hence the sneak attack with almost any weapon was added to make it cooler.
Also there are other ways to get a crit outside of the Assassinate feature, you just need a poison that can render the target unconscious or paralyzed and for it to fail its save and then you can crit.
Also there are other ways to get a crit outside of the Assassinate feature, you just need a poison that can render the target unconscious or paralyzed and for it to fail its save and then you can crit.
Honestly I think the un-janking it could be as simple as “if you are unseen you get a surprise round at the start of combat”. None of this everyone needs to be stealthed. If you were at the start, you get it. Add the rest of your stuff and boom
I changed up so you still get the janky crit at 3rd level but it's jankiness gets reduced as you level.
Should Ambush be Swapped with Cloaked in Shadow as the 13th level feature 🤔
Edit:I ended putting what you said in the 9th level Ambush feature,since it's a beginning of combat feature and there's a possibility to have an outside source for invisibility.
Thematic for sure, but the total package feels too strong for me. At 13 being invisible is trivial, which means it's easy to get a surprise round which means you're going to be critting all the time. That crit feature was only included with the balancing factor that you wouldn't be able to use it often. Rogue subclasses generally don't add any damage to their SA target until level 17. The class just isn't designed with the intention of subs adding damage.
I think people want Assassin to be "rogue that can one-shot people," when it's actually just a subclass designed for a single-player campaign. Designing it around that feature that "everyone takes it for" just doubles down on that misunderstanding and pushes you to overbalance it.
That's what I was afraid of doing, could you break down the parts that make it too strong.
I intially wanted the original assassinate feature to be a 9th level feature since I just found itdifficult to proc in my own mind, but I bet others can find ways to trigger it better than I.
I just think the Assassin original 9th and 13th features felt superfluous since there are ways to accomplish those features without them, because of that I wanted to add some Agent 47 hitman flair to the subclass.
Thematic for sure, but the total package feels too strong for me. At 13 being invisible is trivial, which means it's easy to get a surprise round which means you're going to be critting all the time. That crit feature was only included with the balancing factor that you wouldn't be able to use it often. Rogue subclasses generally don't add any damage to their SA target until level 17. The class just isn't designed with the intention of subs adding damage.
I think people want Assassin to be "rogue that can one-shot people," when it's actually just a subclass designed for a single-player campaign. Designing it around that feature that "everyone takes it for" just doubles down on that misunderstanding and pushes you to overbalance it.
I STRONGLY disagree on all counts.
from second level spells onwards invisibility is trivial. By 13th level you could give an entire team a surprise round easily. Having built in invisibility dependant on lighting isn’t that bad at that level. A single torch and boom, no go zone.
the crit feature is not balanced full stop. Rogues get one attack. A single crit is rarely enough to one shot anyway unless you go some serious mid max level multi classing. Rogues are also fall behind on other classes damage most of the time even if the sneak attack each turn. It isn’t overpowered. It’s why they tend to be skill Monkeys. As soon as sneak attack isn’t applied they are incredibly weak, and they get a SINGLE shot per turn outside of niche cases
Once a combat is NOT a lot. Once a combat with the requirement that you get surprise AND roll better than them in initiative is not a lot. The assassin doesn’t need much. It just needs the jank sorted and to really be the rogue that benefits from stealth and poisons.
as for the whole designing around something makes it overpowered. No. That’s just bad design. You make things at later levels synergise with its early features. Things build on it. Assassinate is a fine, minus the jank. The rest of the current assassin is just ribbon features and that’s the problem until 17th. You could straight put half of the features of the class into something at 6, and give it extras at every point relating to poisons and it would be fine.
Imposter
When you choose this archetype at 3rd level, you gain proficiency with the disguise kit and the poisoner's kit. Your disguise is indiscernible to the casual observer. If a wary creature suspects something is amiss, you have advantage on any Charisma (Deception) check you make to avoid detection.
Assassinate
Starting at 3rd level, You can Sneak Attack using Improvised Weapons, Unarmed Strikes and any melee weapon that lacks the heavy, special and two-handed property.
In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.
Ambush
Beginning at 9th level, you are at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies.You have advantage on attack rolls against any creature that hasn't taken a turn in the combat yet.
Moreover, if you are invisible or successfully stealthed at the start of combat you gain a surprise round.
Cloaked in Shadow
By 13th level, you have learned to become one with the shadows. When you are in an area of dim light or darkness, you can use your action to become invisible. You remain invisible until you make an attack, cast a spell, or are in an area of bright light.
Additionally, the amount of doses of potent poison now equal double your proficiency bonus.
Death Strike
Starting at 17th level, you become a master of instant death. When you attack and hit a creature that is surprised, it must make a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your Dexterity modifier + your proficiency bonus). On a failed save, double the damage of your attack against the creature.
Notes:
Moved the Assassinate feature to 9th tomake this the Subclass that can Sneak Attack with almost all weapons.Edits:
Shuffled some words around splitting assassinate in half,added an extra bit to ambush and removed the extra weapon proficiencies.
I like the attempt but you took the iconic assassin feature, the crit, and moved it to 9th level. Instead it gets improvised weapons prof? While that’s nice in practice how often is it needed outside of very narrow specific situations that are almost once a campaign.
moving the disguise to earlier is a nice touch
the invisibility is cool but most games end before 13th. It’s a fun idea and honestly I nice thing, it doesn’t solve the assassins problems.
my main issues with this are the fact that assassinate still relies on wonky surprise mechanics. It’s now a 9th level feature. Not a fan of that. I would much rather it be a 3rd level with it being crit if you are not detected at the start of combat. It stops other people making the class feature useless.
the potent poisons I like the idea of and frankly I think part of the assassins kit should be a big old table of poisons it can make with gold cost or hours scavenging for herbs. Various effects, high damage, stuns, paralyse, blindness, muteness. they really should lean into that more
I moved it to 9th because of that Wonky mechanic, its such a niche situation that it would only work if you initiate it outside of combat before initiative is rolled.
Idk giving the ability to sneak attack with almost all weapons is pretty awesome imo, you could use your unarmed strikes,any simple weapon, most martial melee weapons like a Longsword or Battleaxe if you already had improvised weapon proficiency.
I am debating about removing the heavy,special and two handed restriction for Sneak attacks but sneak attacking with a greatsword or glaive feels a bit much.
I edited it so you can see the part that lets you Sneak Attack with almost all weapons more clearly.
But when is using an improvised weapon the right choice? It’s great if you have no other choices. Sure I could sneak attack with a fist, a fork or whatever, but when is that better than just a rapier.
people play assassin for the assassinate. Delaying it delays the identity of the assassin. And I don’t think what’s given here gives it enough of an identity to match it. I like the ideas. But I think what you’ve got should be in addition to a de-janked assassinate at level 3. Moving it to level 9 doesn’t solve anything. It doesn’t fix the initiative set up
Honestly If you're able to unjank the Assassinate feature put it back to 3rd level,then move the Impostor proficiencies to 9th with the double potent poison.
That way you get you that perfect Assassin, I'm just not able to figure out a not broken way to fix Assassinates Surprise crit thing outside of adding the invisibility.
Like I get the idea they were going for the Subclass as a whole,its like the Agent 47 subclass with its disguises but it ended up being underwhelming. Hence the sneak attack with almost any weapon was added to make it cooler.
Also there are other ways to get a crit outside of the Assassinate feature, you just need a poison that can render the target unconscious or paralyzed and for it to fail its save and then you can crit.
Honestly I think the un-janking it could be as simple as “if you are unseen you get a surprise round at the start of combat”. None of this everyone needs to be stealthed. If you were at the start, you get it. Add the rest of your stuff and boom
That seems like something you'd add to the cloaked in Shadow invisibility feature.
Gonna do exactly that, thanks for the inspiration.
I would just be careful about adding it too late. The main reason people took assassin ever was for the crit. And most games end pre level 13.
Have a think on where you think it would be best put.
no worries. Thanks for being open to discussion
I changed up so you still get the janky crit at 3rd level but it's jankiness gets reduced as you level.
Should Ambush be Swapped with Cloaked in Shadow as the 13th level feature 🤔
Edit:I ended putting what you said in the 9th level Ambush feature,since it's a beginning of combat feature and there's a possibility to have an outside source for invisibility.
Thematic for sure, but the total package feels too strong for me. At 13 being invisible is trivial, which means it's easy to get a surprise round which means you're going to be critting all the time. That crit feature was only included with the balancing factor that you wouldn't be able to use it often. Rogue subclasses generally don't add any damage to their SA target until level 17. The class just isn't designed with the intention of subs adding damage.
I think people want Assassin to be "rogue that can one-shot people," when it's actually just a subclass designed for a single-player campaign. Designing it around that feature that "everyone takes it for" just doubles down on that misunderstanding and pushes you to overbalance it.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
That's what I was afraid of doing, could you break down the parts that make it too strong.
I intially wanted the original assassinate feature to be a 9th level feature since I just found itdifficult to proc in my own mind, but I bet others can find ways to trigger it better than I.
I just think the Assassin original 9th and 13th features felt superfluous since there are ways to accomplish those features without them, because of that I wanted to add some Agent 47 hitman flair to the subclass.
I STRONGLY disagree on all counts.
from second level spells onwards invisibility is trivial. By 13th level you could give an entire team a surprise round easily. Having built in invisibility dependant on lighting isn’t that bad at that level. A single torch and boom, no go zone.
the crit feature is not balanced full stop. Rogues get one attack. A single crit is rarely enough to one shot anyway unless you go some serious mid max level multi classing. Rogues are also fall behind on other classes damage most of the time even if the sneak attack each turn. It isn’t overpowered. It’s why they tend to be skill Monkeys. As soon as sneak attack isn’t applied they are incredibly weak, and they get a SINGLE shot per turn outside of niche cases
Once a combat is NOT a lot. Once a combat with the requirement that you get surprise AND roll better than them in initiative is not a lot. The assassin doesn’t need much. It just needs the jank sorted and to really be the rogue that benefits from stealth and poisons.
as for the whole designing around something makes it overpowered. No. That’s just bad design. You make things at later levels synergise with its early features. Things build on it. Assassinate is a fine, minus the jank. The rest of the current assassin is just ribbon features and that’s the problem until 17th. You could straight put half of the features of the class into something at 6, and give it extras at every point relating to poisons and it would be fine.
I solved the assassinate feature in my game with if the assassin goes before the enemy at the start of combat he gets an automatic crit.
So assassinate isn't reliant on surprise just going before the foe in combat. He got to be the damage king for couple of levels until level 5