I was looking at the new Satyr race when I started thinking of an issue that could arise in non-Theros games with Satyrs.
Being the the Satyr has creature type (Fey) rather than humanoid is a Satyr PC considered a native of the Feywild/Beastlands/Arborea?
After all, the Satyr is one of the examples stated in the Fey creature type rules immediately after these planes are listed.
If it is, doesn't this mean can a Satyr have a party member (or even a charmed/tricked/coerced foe) cast banishment on them as a cheap n' nasty plane shift?
Or more troubling, would if be possible for a low-level Satyr be effectively banished out of a campaign on the strength of one (well okay two, with that handy magic resistance) dice roll?
After all, the Satyr is one of the examples stated in the Fey creature type rules immediately after these planes are listed.
It is only the racial trait that makes Satyr (and centaur) PCs fey. Where you normally find creatures doesn't manifest on PC race rules. For example, PC minotaurs are humanoids, not monstrosities.
As to how that interacts with banishment, I guess you should discuss with your DM if there are any satyrs native to the material plane that your character could come from before you choose the race, or where/how you crossed into the material plane.
Aha! I may be a Satyr, but you see I was born in Neverwinter.
The problem with this is that it means the effectiveness of a spell mechanic hangs on a backstory element, that generally doesn't happen.
Also it opens up weird (somewhat uncomfortable) questions about how long a fiend/elemental/celestial etc... and/or their lineage can live on the prime material before ceasing to be a native of their type's home plane.
This is complicated by how Eladrin became Humanoids over time even though they live in the Feywild.
The problem with this is that it means the effectiveness of a spell mechanic hangs on a backstory element, that generally doesn't happen.
The game has a long history of doing that. Many of the game's spells are drawn from myths and folklore where magic often worked in very specific (and often inconvenient) ways. The 2nd edition version of the spell (it wasn't in the 1e Player's Handbook as far as I know) was far more stringent:
A banishment spell enables the caster to force some extraplanar creature out of the caster’s home plane. The effect is instantaneous, and the subject cannot come back without some special summoning or means of egress from its own plane to the one from which it was banished. Up to 2 Hit Dice or levels of creature per caster level can be banished. The caster must both name the type of creature(s) to be sent away and give its name and title as well, if any.
The 5e version is generous enough to be usable on any plane, and if the creature is already from the plane you're on it'll remove it from combat for 10 rounds, which is very often a death sentence.
If Banishment was meant to send creatures of type X to plane Y indiscriminately it would just say that. There are blink dogs, sprites, pixies, satyrs and dryads in the forests of the Material Plane and they were most likely born there. Fey crossings are a thing, but they're rare. Likewise, the unicorn guarding the forest was probably born there as well even though it's a celestial.
Also it opens up weird (somewhat uncomfortable) questions about how long a fiend/elemental/celestial etc... and/or their lineage can live on the prime material before ceasing to be a native of their type's home plane.
Your home plane is your home plane. A devil can squat all it wants in the Material Plane; if it was born in the Nine Hells, that's where it goes when banished. On the other hand a Shadow Demon is never born in the Abyss.
Anyone from Ebberon that happens to be visiting Greyhawk can be banished back to their home plane. Even if they are Humanoid, Beast, or Giant.
Creature Type does not in any way indicate plane of origin. It is true that most Elementals, Fiends and Celestials are not from this plane. But despite the fact that Abberations originated on "The Far Realm", they have successfully colonized most Material Planes, and as such are 'native'. Banishing them does not send them to the Far Realm, but instead a random plane.
Anyone from Ebberon that happens to be visiting Greyhawk can be banished back to their home plane. Even if they are Humanoid, Beast, or Giant.
Creature Type does not in any way indicate plane of origin. It is true that most Elementals, Fiends and Celestials are not from this plane. But despite the fact that Abberations originated on "The Far Realm", they have successfully colonized most Material Planes, and as such are 'native'. Banishing them does not send them to the Far Realm, but instead a random plane.
Anyone from Ebberon that happens to be visiting Greyhawk can be banished back to their home plane. Even if they are Humanoid, Beast, or Giant.
You're confusing worlds with planes though. Eberron isn't the best example because it was originally its own thing and didn't use the standard D&D cosmology, but if you assume it coexists with Greyhawk, they'd both be in the Material Plane along with Krynn and Athas and Faerun.
Anyone from Ebberon that happens to be visiting Greyhawk can be banished back to their home plane. Even if they are Humanoid, Beast, or Giant.
You're confusing worlds with planes though. Eberron isn't the best example because it was originally its own thing and didn't use the standard D&D cosmology, but if you assume it coexists with Greyhawk, they'd both be in the Material Plane along with Krynn and Athas and Faerun.
They moved Eberron to the Prime Material plane?!? I missed that.
If regular humans are born there, it's Prime Material. Where on the Prime Material is up for debate, but it's Prime Material. All current campaign settings for D&D, and most non-current ones, are Prime Material. Even Spelljammer. Sort of.
It's still officially mostly closed off in its own little pocket universe, but Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron gives some suggestions for ways to connect it to rest of the multiverse if that's a thing you want to do as DM. I assumed the latter is being done since as far as I know Eberron's always been a standalone setting and normally it wouldn't make sense to speak of visitors from Greyhawk.
Eberron has always been a part of the multiverse. Eberron is surrounded by its thirteen planes...But the Astral and Ethereal Planes surround and enfold Eberron, and if someone ventures into the Deep Ethereal it’s possible to pass beyond Eberron’s closed system and step into the Great Wheel or the World Tree.
As a DM, it’s up to you to decide whether such travel is trivially easy or all but impossible… and whether threats from other settings will make their way into Eberron...The Ring of Siberys could in fact be a shield: a defense that has hidden Eberron since it was first created...If you’re not interested in connecting Eberron to other settings, then that shield is still intact. But if you do want to incorporate elements from other realms, this shield is starting to fail.
If regular humans are born there, it's Prime Material. Where on the Prime Material is up for debate, but it's Prime Material. All current campaign settings for D&D, and most non-current ones, are Prime Material. Even Spelljammer. Sort of.
Humans are born in Sigil, it don’t get less “prime material” than Planescape. And Eberron used to not be prime material.
The problem with this is that the Fey creature type makes them immune to spells that specifically target Humanoids, such as Hold Person. If they can't be targeted by those spells because they are fey, they should also get the downfalls of being Fey
Being fey gives satyrs and centaurs immunity to Hold Person and Charm Person, but it also makes them vulnerable to effects like Protection From Good and Evil and the Oath of the Ancients Paladin's Turn the Faithless. They don't need an extra vulnerability that functionally kills the character, which is what being banished to another plane amounts to unless the PC has access to planeshifting magic themselves.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Being fey gives satyrs and centaurs immunity to Hold Person and Charm Person, but it also makes them vulnerable to effects like Protection From Good and Evil and the Oath of the Ancients Paladin's Turn the Faithless. They don't need an extra vulnerability that functionally kills the character, which is what being banished to another plane amounts to unless the PC has access to planeshifting magic themselves.
You’ll get no argument from me. Why “Re:” me with this?
I was looking at the new Satyr race when I started thinking of an issue that could arise in non-Theros games with Satyrs.
Being the the Satyr has creature type (Fey) rather than humanoid is a Satyr PC considered a native of the Feywild/Beastlands/Arborea?
After all, the Satyr is one of the examples stated in the Fey creature type rules immediately after these planes are listed.
If it is, doesn't this mean can a Satyr have a party member (or even a charmed/tricked/coerced foe) cast banishment on them as a cheap n' nasty plane shift?
Or more troubling, would if be possible for a low-level Satyr be effectively banished out of a campaign on the strength of one (well okay two, with that handy magic resistance) dice roll?
Aha! I may be a Satyr, but you see I was born in Neverwinter.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
The problem with this is that it means the effectiveness of a spell mechanic hangs on a backstory element, that generally doesn't happen.
Also it opens up weird (somewhat uncomfortable) questions about how long a fiend/elemental/celestial etc... and/or their lineage can live on the prime material before ceasing to be a native of their type's home plane.
This is complicated by how Eladrin became Humanoids over time even though they live in the Feywild.
The game has a long history of doing that. Many of the game's spells are drawn from myths and folklore where magic often worked in very specific (and often inconvenient) ways. The 2nd edition version of the spell (it wasn't in the 1e Player's Handbook as far as I know) was far more stringent:
The 5e version is generous enough to be usable on any plane, and if the creature is already from the plane you're on it'll remove it from combat for 10 rounds, which is very often a death sentence.
If Banishment was meant to send creatures of type X to plane Y indiscriminately it would just say that. There are blink dogs, sprites, pixies, satyrs and dryads in the forests of the Material Plane and they were most likely born there. Fey crossings are a thing, but they're rare. Likewise, the unicorn guarding the forest was probably born there as well even though it's a celestial.
Your home plane is your home plane. A devil can squat all it wants in the Material Plane; if it was born in the Nine Hells, that's where it goes when banished. On the other hand a Shadow Demon is never born in the Abyss.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
You are confusing creature type with plane.
Anyone from Ebberon that happens to be visiting Greyhawk can be banished back to their home plane. Even if they are Humanoid, Beast, or Giant.
Creature Type does not in any way indicate plane of origin. It is true that most Elementals, Fiends and Celestials are not from this plane. But despite the fact that Abberations originated on "The Far Realm", they have successfully colonized most Material Planes, and as such are 'native'. Banishing them does not send them to the Far Realm, but instead a random plane.
This^
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You're confusing worlds with planes though. Eberron isn't the best example because it was originally its own thing and didn't use the standard D&D cosmology, but if you assume it coexists with Greyhawk, they'd both be in the Material Plane along with Krynn and Athas and Faerun.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
They moved Eberron to the Prime Material plane?!? I missed that.
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If regular humans are born there, it's Prime Material. Where on the Prime Material is up for debate, but it's Prime Material. All current campaign settings for D&D, and most non-current ones, are Prime Material. Even Spelljammer. Sort of.
Please do not contact or message me.
It's still officially mostly closed off in its own little pocket universe, but Wayfinder's Guide to Eberron gives some suggestions for ways to connect it to rest of the multiverse if that's a thing you want to do as DM. I assumed the latter is being done since as far as I know Eberron's always been a standalone setting and normally it wouldn't make sense to speak of visitors from Greyhawk.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
The fact that most worlds exist on the Prime Material Plane means that you can also Teleport between them, if you know about them at least.
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Humans are born in Sigil, it don’t get less “prime material” than Planescape. And Eberron used to not be prime material.
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The problem with this is that the Fey creature type makes them immune to spells that specifically target Humanoids, such as Hold Person. If they can't be targeted by those spells because they are fey, they should also get the downfalls of being Fey
Being fey gives satyrs and centaurs immunity to Hold Person and Charm Person, but it also makes them vulnerable to effects like Protection From Good and Evil and the Oath of the Ancients Paladin's Turn the Faithless. They don't need an extra vulnerability that functionally kills the character, which is what being banished to another plane amounts to unless the PC has access to planeshifting magic themselves.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
You’ll get no argument from me. Why “Re:” me with this?
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Weird, because I didn't select anyone when I posted, I used the normal Post Reply button only.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
🤷♂️ Like my old coworker Angelo used to say: “is no bigga deal.”
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And it's telling me that you used the Reply to me in both of your posts just now, too. The forum must be glitching again.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I just figured it out. Look at the title of the thread. 🤣😂🤣
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