I have always the idea of the blind Monk or other character type in fantasy lore. However, in D&D being blind is an extreme hindrance and I can't seem to find any reliable ways to overcome it without spells being cast on the character.
Does anyone know of a way to overcome blindness in such a way that the character doesn't have to rely on magic?
If someone really wanted to do that, I’d let them take a feat that gave them 10’ blindsense. 10’ is still incredibly limited and blindsense is no where near a replacement for sight either.
I’d probably make being blind a prerequisite for taking the feat too.....
If someone really wanted to do that, I’d let them take a feat that gave them 10’ blindsense. 10’ is still incredibly limited and blindsense is no where near a replacement for sight either.
I’d probably make being blind a prerequisite for taking the feat too.....
I can understand this. Not to mention that you can't read, can't follow a map. Forget about casting spells except on yourself or Touch or ranged attacks as well.
Personally, I'd make it a homebrew subclass for the monk.
One that over the course of your leveling removes associated penalties (probably first the advantage opponents have, then your disadvantage?) in a variety of ways. And eventually get benefits out of the class as well (we don't want an entire subclass that ends up about as powerful as a sub-class-less monk, do we?), like empathic bonuses, sixth sense kind of alertness, etc.
You would have to start with penalties (because you are blind), but wouldn't it be interesting as you see the character overcome the serious hindrance, and perhaps by the end of his career has turned it into an unparalleled benefit?
Personally, I'd make it a homebrew subclass for the monk.
One that over the course of your leveling removes associated penalties (probably first the advantage opponents have, then your disadvantage?) in a variety of ways. And eventually get benefits out of the class as well (we don't want an entire subclass that ends up about as powerful as a sub-class-less monk, do we?), like empathic bonuses, sixth sense kind of alertness, etc.
You would have to start with penalties (because you are blind), but wouldn't it be interesting as you see the character overcome the serious hindrance, and perhaps by the end of his career has turned it into an unparalleled benefit?
I can see a lot of potential here.
Annnnnnnnnnd now I have writing to do. Thanks, gang!
A Way of Shadow monk can make this work with the Alert feat, using Darkness to blind the enemy. The monk's advantage and disadvantage cancel out but the enemy gets disadvantage. This requires some buy-in from the party though, since Darkness can interfere with the Light cantrip and other party member's preferred tactics.
A homebrew approach that requires less work than a full subclass is to give them a magic item that gives them blindsight up to a short distance; enough to not be penalized at melee range but still be blind to ranged attackers.
Yeah, being blind isn't THAT much of a disadvantage (heh), since mostly all it does is give disadvantage on attacks and give attackers advantage against you. The first part of that, disadvantage on all attacks, is pretty much shared by viable PC races such as drow, duergar, koboolds, and snifverblin in a lot of common adventuring scenarios. Normally, one way to get around that is to play a class that focuses on save-based spells which don't need an attack roll... but many of those require a "target you can see," which just straight up cannot ever be used by a blind character. If you're looking for custom racial ability or feat to compensate a blind spellcasting character, something that allows you to target allies and enemies within 30 feet with "see" based spells (but not remove the disadvantage on attack rolls) might be a necessary to keep the class performing as intended. For a melee character, like Coder pointed out, zone effects that take everyone's vision away are your friend and will largely be sufficient to level the playing ground. Fog Cloud, Darkness, those are going to be your friend, so a racial or class ability to summon those a certain number of times per short rest will be a big help.
The second part is kind of a kick in the pants, but isn't too bad if you a) play a super-high AC build in melee, or b) play a back line character that isn't often attacked. As far as abilities to counter that, rather than feat chains or racial abilities that "undo" those penalties, I think it might be cool to give different sorts of defenses that balance it out, like limited immunity to illusion, charm, or frighten based effects.
In all seriousness, why should there be a compensation for being blind? The trope of the blind warrior (warning - TVTropes link!) is someone who is awesome despite being blind, not someone who is awesome because they are blind.
The best way to overcome blindness is just to be really, really good at what you do. Either get really good before being blinded or hope for a lot of luck.
On the other hand, a few of the examples in that TVTropes page have supernatural help (for example, Chirrut Îmwe from Star Wars Rogue One) so some game feature or magical item is not unreasonable.
The Way of the Blind Warrior teaches techniques that enable the practitioner to use their other senses, as well as a form of 'sixth sense', to detect their targets. In the early stages, the warrior must still rely on their other senses, mainly hearing, to get close enough to strike their target. However, by 3rd level the practitioner is adept enough to select their target and strike at them as well as if they could see them.
The Sound of the World
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you can use your Ki to sense targets close to you. As a Bonus Action you may spend 1 Ki Point and gain the Blind Sense ability. While this ability is active, you can detect foes within 10' well enough to attack without disadvantage. This ability lasts 1 minute and ends if you are Stunned, knocked unconscious or killed.
Note that this ability WILL allow you to effectively fight only opponents that you can detect in some other way such as hearing them by use of the Perception Skill. If you cannot hear the target for some reason (such as a Silence Spell being active in the area) then your Blind Sense will not work.
Also note that this allows you to effectively fight an enemy even if they are invisible as long as you can hear them.
The Touch of the Earth
At 6th level, you gain the ability to extend your Blind Sense out to 30' from you. All of the other conditions of The Sound of the World still apply.
The Breath of the Air
By 11th level, you have learned to detect subtle changes in the air caused by the passage of your target. You gain Advantage on all of your Perception rolls involving Hearing. Also, your Blind Sense can track a target out to 60'. Note that you must still have detected the target by use of your Blind Sense within 30' but now if they move away from you they can still be tracked, and targeted, as far away as 60'.
The Flow of Water
At 17th level, you can exploit a creature’s momentary distraction when it is hit by an attack. Whenever a creature within 5 feet of you is hit by an attack made by a creature other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee attack against that creature.
If I was the DM I think I would be willing to give the blind monk a Blindsight radius of 30 feet in exchange for his vision. While Blindsight is powerful both in and out of combat, so is normal vision. Simply being blind and not being able to perceive your surroundings is going to be very difficult both in and out of combat I think.
The Way of the Blind Warrior teaches techniques that enable the practitioner to use their other senses, as well as a form of 'sixth sense', to detect their targets. In the early stages, the warrior must still rely on their other senses, mainly hearing, to get close enough to strike their target. However, by 3rd level the practitioner is adept enough to select their target and strike at them as well as if they could see them.
As a whole, the sub-class suggestion is extremely unbalanced and not in the favour of the monk. Normally (as I see it) sub-classes work as a way to specialise your character, making them extraordinary in one aspect. This sub-class does not do that, as it is still weaker than an ordinary monk with no specialisation (in my opinion). The abilities you gain at 3rd, 6th, and 11th level do not make up for your vision loss, not even collectively. The way this subclass is written right now, every attack against the monk is still made with advantage. And no matter your level you can still only attack creatures without disadvantage within 10 feet of you, unless you make it clear that you simply don't have disadvantage on attack rolls within your Blindsense radius. Your monk would also be completely blind until level 3 if this is the way you want to make up for your blindness.
Might make more sense that the character becomes blind at 3rd level when taking the subclass, but provides some really cool bonuses to trade off, to avoid the problem of levels 1 and 2 being unplayable.... and right now the class largely just lets you target things further and further out, which isn't really that relevant (or thematic) for a monks abilities. I agree with greenstone_walker above that it's more interesting to balance against blindness rather than undo the blindness, so I'd be interested in 1) keeping the regular disadvantage on attacks and advantage against you, 2) providing an ability that lets you target things despite not being able to see them (blindsight 30', which as we're all arguing over in the other thread, I don't believe does anything in and of itself to counter the disadvantage situation Blindness provides, just gives you a way to "perceive" and target things), 3) providing cool bonuses other monks don't get, like... unlimited free attacks of opportunity without using your reaction? immunity against fear/charmed/illusion school effects? huge bonuses to perception (non-sight), insight, initiative, and/or will saves? Getting to add an additional wisdom bonus to attack rolls so as to compensate for disadvantage? Being able to use your reaction to negate hits against you?
I am against throwing out powerful bonuses that negate the penalty for being blind.That's asking to not be blind.
Mechanically if you wanted to build a character best suited to deal with being blind I would go with barbarian, ALWAYS reckless attack, because that bumps you up to normal attacks, and they were getting advantage against you anyways.
Alternately, a wizard could have a familiar and use its power to see through its eyes, and use its telepathic bond to help guide him in combat.
Getting a lot of levels in rogue grants blindsense..
Magic items also would work around the issue, a robe of eyes I would rule would allow sight again.
But yeah, don't tell me "I Want to play a full blooded orc!" And in the next sentence say " But I want all the civilized people to be nice to me and not hold centuries of war with my kind against me."
providing an ability that lets you target things despite not being able to see them (blindsight 30', which as we're all arguing over in the other thread, I don't believe does anything in and of itself to counter the disadvantage situation Blindness provides, just gives you a way to "perceive" and target things)
I don't want to start a big discussion about this again, but if the situation is that the monk is born blind and instead has the Blindsight ability, perhaps it would make sense that he would be immune to the Blinded condition as with other creatures born blind.
And I definitely think the "negate hit" reaction would suit the Blindsight style, considering the monk's "6th sense". I feel this happens in every other Asian martial arts movie out there.
I agree that "Blinded" is better suited to temporary disorientation than to represent long-term blindness, either from birth or a past injury. So a blind character might not actually be "Blinded" at all, especially if they have Blindsight.... But putting that question aside, I think that a class that always has disadvantage on attacks, but gets a way higher attack bonus than is normally allowed (by adding both dex and wisdom to hits) would be an interesting mechanical spin that some players would find attractive without being obviously better or worse than other monk options. As is, Wisdom actually feels kind of wasted on a monk, since they don't really have that many save DC abilities, and it basically just gets used for AC. A monk subclass that lets them use WIS for more stuff, like paladins get to with CHA, would be cool.
I gave it a go as well, using Darkaiser and Chicken_Champ's suggestions as inspiration.
Veiled Warrior - Monk Subclass
Blind Since Birth (level 1 free feat)
You are blind (Blinded condition) Blindsense 30’ (loses Blindsense if Deafened)
The Sound of the World
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, your Blindsense radius is extended by 30 feet. Moreover you gain the Blindsight ability within a 30 feet radius of yourself.Additionally, you become immune to the Blind condition.
Heart Sight
At 6th level, your ki-enhanced perception now allows you to pick up nuances of the ki in creatures around you. Using an action, you can focus on a creature within your Blindsight radius and discern the creature's current emotional state. If the target fails a DC 10 Charisma saving throw, you also know the creature's alignment. Celestials, fiends, and undead automatically fail the saving throw.
Additionally, you can no longer be surprised by creatures within your Blindsight radius, and you become proficient in the Perception skill within your Blindsense radius. If you are already proficient in this skill, your proficiency bonus is doubled.
Insightful Soul
When you reach your 11th level, your heightened senses make you receptive to subtle changes around you. You gain +2 to Insight rolls. You also gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature within your Blindsight radius that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you gain advantage on your attacks against the creature until the end of your next turn.
Sixth Sense
At your 17th level, your training has taught you to truly harness your Blindsight against the world around you. You gain +2 Wisdom. Moreover, you can as a reaction spend 3 ki points to completely negate a single attack. You can use this ability once every turn.
If the intention is that an already blind character with this feat isn't "Blinded" and disoriented, I would change Blind Since Birth to say:
- You are naturally blind, meaning you cannot see, and automatically fail any ability check that requires sight. - You have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing, smell, touch, or taste. - You have Blindsight 10', which you lose if Deafened. Attacks you make against foes outside of this radius or within a zone of silence suffer disadvantage, and attacks against you made by foes outside of this radius or in a zone of silence gain advantage. Attacks you make against and which are made against you by foes within this radius function as if you could see your foe. - You are immune to the Blinded condition.
At 3rd level, I would not increase Blindsight, or if so, not past 15'... I think that seeing in such a small "bubble" is thematic and will balance some powerful melee bonuses by requiring the Monk to basically hug single targets instead of zip around and punch multiple targets per round. Also, I would move that entire Insightful Soul ability up to 3rd level. Insight feels like a defining part of this class, so it should be up front instead of buried so far down the line. None of it is too strong for level 3, because a) its gated behind a skill check, and b) burning your bonus for advantage (especially at low level when you don't have Extra Attack yet) is a pretty big trade off for a monk that can normally get one or two more attacks with that bonus every round. I would change that +2 bonus to advantage, however, to come in line with the way better senses are treated on monsters (and the Blind Since Birth feat). Also, 5e doesn't really like feat prerequisites for subclasses... but this subclass really needs a blind character to balance it out, so hand it out for free at 3 to force someone to become blind if they aren't a variant human who started with it at level 1.
At 6th level, the first part of Heart Sight is unnecessary, reading emotions is pretty m uch already covered by regular Insight skill checks and we got good at those back at 3. And detecting alignment isn't really a thing any more, even "Detect Good and Evil" only picks up creature types, I would drop it. I would keep the no surprise within radius bonus, keep the bonus Perception proficiency (but drop the expertise if you already have it line, instead give choice of Insight or Investigation), and add "You may add your Wisdom bonus as an additional bonus to all attack rolls against targets within your Blindsight radius." I would have liked to have stuck that in at 3, but it a) would be a little strong on such a light dip into the class, especially if we're interpreting the blindness to not come with disadvantage against foes within Blindsight radius, and b) a bonus to attacks isn't as defining as the Insightful Soul stuff was, which makes Insightful Soul a better gateway into describing what's cool about the class for someone first joining it.
11th... I dunno, I stole Insightful Soul and stuck it earlier. Could hand out a bunch of immunities against Charmed and Frightened? Its better than what Monks picked up at 7 (can end those conditions with an action), so it would still feel nice to get. Also, advantage on saves vs. Illusion spells? 11th level capstones often feel boring, so no big deal.
17th, I would clarify that the +2 Wisdom can raise you above your racial cap and give you a 22. That might be enough on its own right there, but I don't think the 3 ki point ability is too powerful, could keep that too.
What we're left with is a character that has a) received some cool social bonuses, by being the party "lie detector", b) isn't the "scout" of the group, but is a real asset in encounters that involve darkness/fog or against invisible creatures, c) has better-than-normal accuracy against melee targets, and d) is the character of the group that you can count on not to be charmed/frightened/tricked by an illusion. None of this feels unbalanced against the Open Hand or Way of Shadows, although it is probably better than the other five in a group where he's got other people to compensate for his cluelessness beyond 10' or 15'.
The intention behind Blind by Birth is not that the character doesn't suffer from the Blinded condition. He does suffer from this condition from level 1, but his sense of hearing is better than normal, hence he get Blindsense 30'. This doesn't get rid of the disadvantages from the Blinded condition. As a character normally wouldn't start with the Blinded condition or with Blindsense ability, I am thinking that this is something the player should talk over with his DM first. Also I am not sure what you mean by "- You have Blindsight 10', which you lose if Deafened", "- You are immune to the Blinded condition". I'm guessing that you would lose your immunity to the Blinded condition if Deafened as well? Either way, what I had in mind was a character who did not only rely on his hearing for his Blindsight ability starting level 3 (but he would be relying on his hearing for his Blindsense ability), hence the immunity to the Blinded condition. While he has his Blindsense ability though his hearing, his Blindsight comes through is ability to perceive his surroundings through the flow of ki, or ripples in the air or some such.
As I see it, the point of the subclass is that you are not trained in the use of your senses until you choose the subclass, meaning that Blinded immunity and Blindsight is not something you gain until level 3. But perhaps Blindsight should be lowered to 20'.
Insightful Soul could be moved to level 3 with advantage on Insight checks instead of +2.
As I see the Heart Sight ability (level 6) it is not entirely redundant. While it works as an Insight check to a certain degree, it doesn't tell the character whether or not the creature is lying or hiding something, or whether your character believes him or not. It gives the character clues, such as "he is completely calm" or "he is very agitated", which the character then can hold up against the context. The alignment detection can still be useful in cases where you have to judge whether or not a creature is likely to be a foe at some point. There are also creatures that can change shape, such as Werewolfs, Onis, and the Night Hag, and if a small girl was revealed to be evil I would certainly think twice about why that is. I think the Heart Sightability is a nice and subtle touch. It should probably cost a ki point though. Regarding the Perception proficiency, I think it is vital that this skill gets enhanced as this sub-class is revolving around the character's senses.
At level 11 the monk could get immunity to magic from the school of illusion, as well as "you may add your Wisdom bonus as an additional bonus to all attack rolls against targets within your Blindsight radius."
The +2 Wisdom at level 17 should be able to go above 20 and yes this should probably be clarified.
This is my suggestion so far. I noticed that I had misunderstood the Blinsense ability (taken from the Rogue class). I had forgotten the specific rules and in this context simply understood it as perception relying on hearing. That is not the case and I have made adjustments accordingly. It did make me question one thing though. Should a blind character's perception rolls be treated the same way as a non-blind character's perception rolls? I am going to make another thread regarding that question so we can keep the focus on the question at hand.
Veiled Warrior - Subclass (Blind Since Birth feat required)
Blind Since Birth (level 1 free feat)
Blindsight 10’ (blind beyond this radius. Your Blindsight radius is reduced to 0 if Deafened). Condition Immunity: Blinded
The Sound of the World
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, your Blindsight radius is extended to 15 feet and this radius cannot be reduced. Additionally, you gain the Blindsense ability within a 15 feet radius of yourself and you cannot lose this sense.
Insightful Soul
From your 3rd level, your heightened senses make you receptive to subtle changes around you. You gain advantage on Insight rolls within your Blindsense radius. You also gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature within your Blindsight radius that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you gain advantage on your attacks against the creature until the end of your next turn.
Heart Sight
At 6th level, your ki-enhanced perception now allows you to pick up nuances of the ki in creatures around you. Using an action, you can spend 1 ki point to focus on a creature within your Blindsight radius and discern the creature's current emotional state. If the target fails a DC 10 Charisma saving throw, you also know the creature's alignment. Celestials, fiends, and undead automatically fail the saving throw.
Moreover, you become proficient with the Perception skill. If you are already proficient with this skill, your proficiency bonus is doubled.
Mind over Matter
When you reach your 11th level, your training has effectively strengthened your mind. You become immune to spells from the Illusion school, and you can add your Wisdom bonus as an additional bonus to all attack rolls against targets within your Blindsight radius.
Sixth Sense
At your 17th level, you have learned to truly harness your Blindsight against the world around you. You gain +2 Wisdom (this ability is not limited by your Wisdom cap). Moreover, you can as a reaction spend 3 ki points to completely negate a single attack. You can use this ability once every turn.
Problem is, at level 3 you're not Blinded any more the way you've written that, so you can see normally and have Blindsight on top of that. That's why I had written up the Blind Since Birth feat in a way that made clear that the vision restrictions it imposes do not spring from the Blinded condition, and that you are also immune to the Blinded condition so that you are protected from it overwriting the way the feat "works." Also, if Blind Since Birth is just the Blinded condition, it can be cured with a level 2 spell, leaving you free blindsense. Being born blind =/= the "Blinded" condition.
I have always the idea of the blind Monk or other character type in fantasy lore. However, in D&D being blind is an extreme hindrance and I can't seem to find any reliable ways to overcome it without spells being cast on the character.
Does anyone know of a way to overcome blindness in such a way that the character doesn't have to rely on magic?
If someone really wanted to do that, I’d let them take a feat that gave them 10’ blindsense. 10’ is still incredibly limited and blindsense is no where near a replacement for sight either.
I’d probably make being blind a prerequisite for taking the feat too.....
Professional computer geek
I can understand this. Not to mention that you can't read, can't follow a map. Forget about casting spells except on yourself or Touch or ranged attacks as well.
Personally, I'd make it a homebrew subclass for the monk.
One that over the course of your leveling removes associated penalties (probably first the advantage opponents have, then your disadvantage?) in a variety of ways. And eventually get benefits out of the class as well (we don't want an entire subclass that ends up about as powerful as a sub-class-less monk, do we?), like empathic bonuses, sixth sense kind of alertness, etc.
You would have to start with penalties (because you are blind), but wouldn't it be interesting as you see the character overcome the serious hindrance, and perhaps by the end of his career has turned it into an unparalleled benefit?
I can see a lot of potential here.
I agree Onyx, subclass that slowly negates penalties while giving other bonuses is the way to go
Annnnnnnnnnd now I have writing to do. Thanks, gang!
A Way of Shadow monk can make this work with the Alert feat, using Darkness to blind the enemy. The monk's advantage and disadvantage cancel out but the enemy gets disadvantage. This requires some buy-in from the party though, since Darkness can interfere with the Light cantrip and other party member's preferred tactics.
A homebrew approach that requires less work than a full subclass is to give them a magic item that gives them blindsight up to a short distance; enough to not be penalized at melee range but still be blind to ranged attackers.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Yeah, being blind isn't THAT much of a disadvantage (heh), since mostly all it does is give disadvantage on attacks and give attackers advantage against you. The first part of that, disadvantage on all attacks, is pretty much shared by viable PC races such as drow, duergar, koboolds, and snifverblin in a lot of common adventuring scenarios. Normally, one way to get around that is to play a class that focuses on save-based spells which don't need an attack roll... but many of those require a "target you can see," which just straight up cannot ever be used by a blind character. If you're looking for custom racial ability or feat to compensate a blind spellcasting character, something that allows you to target allies and enemies within 30 feet with "see" based spells (but not remove the disadvantage on attack rolls) might be a necessary to keep the class performing as intended. For a melee character, like Coder pointed out, zone effects that take everyone's vision away are your friend and will largely be sufficient to level the playing ground. Fog Cloud, Darkness, those are going to be your friend, so a racial or class ability to summon those a certain number of times per short rest will be a big help.
The second part is kind of a kick in the pants, but isn't too bad if you a) play a super-high AC build in melee, or b) play a back line character that isn't often attacked. As far as abilities to counter that, rather than feat chains or racial abilities that "undo" those penalties, I think it might be cool to give different sorts of defenses that balance it out, like limited immunity to illusion, charm, or frighten based effects.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
In all seriousness, why should there be a compensation for being blind? The trope of the blind warrior (warning - TVTropes link!) is someone who is awesome despite being blind, not someone who is awesome because they are blind.
The best way to overcome blindness is just to be really, really good at what you do. Either get really good before being blinded or hope for a lot of luck.
On the other hand, a few of the examples in that TVTropes page have supernatural help (for example, Chirrut Îmwe from Star Wars Rogue One) so some game feature or magical item is not unreasonable.
The Way of the Blind Warrior teaches techniques that enable the practitioner to use their other senses, as well as a form of 'sixth sense', to detect their targets. In the early stages, the warrior must still rely on their other senses, mainly hearing, to get close enough to strike their target. However, by 3rd level the practitioner is adept enough to select their target and strike at them as well as if they could see them.
The Sound of the World
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, you can use your Ki to sense targets close to you. As a Bonus Action you may spend 1 Ki Point and gain the Blind Sense ability. While this ability is active, you can detect foes within 10' well enough to attack without disadvantage. This ability lasts 1 minute and ends if you are Stunned, knocked unconscious or killed.
Note that this ability WILL allow you to effectively fight only opponents that you can detect in some other way such as hearing them by use of the Perception Skill. If you cannot hear the target for some reason (such as a Silence Spell being active in the area) then your Blind Sense will not work.
Also note that this allows you to effectively fight an enemy even if they are invisible as long as you can hear them.
The Touch of the Earth
At 6th level, you gain the ability to extend your Blind Sense out to 30' from you. All of the other conditions of The Sound of the World still apply.
The Breath of the Air
By 11th level, you have learned to detect subtle changes in the air caused by the passage of your target. You gain Advantage on all of your Perception rolls involving Hearing. Also, your Blind Sense can track a target out to 60'. Note that you must still have detected the target by use of your Blind Sense within 30' but now if they move away from you they can still be tracked, and targeted, as far away as 60'.
The Flow of Water
At 17th level, you can exploit a creature’s momentary distraction when it is hit by an attack. Whenever a creature within 5 feet of you is hit by an attack made by a creature other than you, you can use your reaction to make a melee attack against that creature.
If I was the DM I think I would be willing to give the blind monk a Blindsight radius of 30 feet in exchange for his vision. While Blindsight is powerful both in and out of combat, so is normal vision. Simply being blind and not being able to perceive your surroundings is going to be very difficult both in and out of combat I think.
As a whole, the sub-class suggestion is extremely unbalanced and not in the favour of the monk. Normally (as I see it) sub-classes work as a way to specialise your character, making them extraordinary in one aspect. This sub-class does not do that, as it is still weaker than an ordinary monk with no specialisation (in my opinion).
The abilities you gain at 3rd, 6th, and 11th level do not make up for your vision loss, not even collectively.
The way this subclass is written right now, every attack against the monk is still made with advantage. And no matter your level you can still only attack creatures without disadvantage within 10 feet of you, unless you make it clear that you simply don't have disadvantage on attack rolls within your Blindsense radius.
Your monk would also be completely blind until level 3 if this is the way you want to make up for your blindness.
Might make more sense that the character becomes blind at 3rd level when taking the subclass, but provides some really cool bonuses to trade off, to avoid the problem of levels 1 and 2 being unplayable.... and right now the class largely just lets you target things further and further out, which isn't really that relevant (or thematic) for a monks abilities. I agree with greenstone_walker above that it's more interesting to balance against blindness rather than undo the blindness, so I'd be interested in 1) keeping the regular disadvantage on attacks and advantage against you, 2) providing an ability that lets you target things despite not being able to see them (blindsight 30', which as we're all arguing over in the other thread, I don't believe does anything in and of itself to counter the disadvantage situation Blindness provides, just gives you a way to "perceive" and target things), 3) providing cool bonuses other monks don't get, like... unlimited free attacks of opportunity without using your reaction? immunity against fear/charmed/illusion school effects? huge bonuses to perception (non-sight), insight, initiative, and/or will saves? Getting to add an additional wisdom bonus to attack rolls so as to compensate for disadvantage? Being able to use your reaction to negate hits against you?
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I am against throwing out powerful bonuses that negate the penalty for being blind.That's asking to not be blind.
Mechanically if you wanted to build a character best suited to deal with being blind I would go with barbarian, ALWAYS reckless attack, because that bumps you up to normal attacks, and they were getting advantage against you anyways.
Alternately, a wizard could have a familiar and use its power to see through its eyes, and use its telepathic bond to help guide him in combat.
Getting a lot of levels in rogue grants blindsense..
Magic items also would work around the issue, a robe of eyes I would rule would allow sight again.
But yeah, don't tell me "I Want to play a full blooded orc!" And in the next sentence say " But I want all the civilized people to be nice to me and not hold centuries of war with my kind against me."
I don't want to start a big discussion about this again, but if the situation is that the monk is born blind and instead has the Blindsight ability, perhaps it would make sense that he would be immune to the Blinded condition as with other creatures born blind.
And I definitely think the "negate hit" reaction would suit the Blindsight style, considering the monk's "6th sense". I feel this happens in every other Asian martial arts movie out there.
I agree that "Blinded" is better suited to temporary disorientation than to represent long-term blindness, either from birth or a past injury. So a blind character might not actually be "Blinded" at all, especially if they have Blindsight.... But putting that question aside, I think that a class that always has disadvantage on attacks, but gets a way higher attack bonus than is normally allowed (by adding both dex and wisdom to hits) would be an interesting mechanical spin that some players would find attractive without being obviously better or worse than other monk options. As is, Wisdom actually feels kind of wasted on a monk, since they don't really have that many save DC abilities, and it basically just gets used for AC. A monk subclass that lets them use WIS for more stuff, like paladins get to with CHA, would be cool.
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I gave it a go as well, using Darkaiser and Chicken_Champ's suggestions as inspiration.
Veiled Warrior - Monk Subclass
Blind Since Birth (level 1 free feat)
You are blind (Blinded condition)
Blindsense 30’ (loses Blindsense if Deafened)
The Sound of the World
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, your Blindsense radius is extended by 30 feet. Moreover you gain the Blindsight ability within a 30 feet radius of yourself.Additionally, you become immune to the Blind condition.
Heart Sight
At 6th level, your ki-enhanced perception now allows you to pick up nuances of the ki in creatures around you. Using an action, you can focus on a creature within your Blindsight radius and discern the creature's current emotional state. If the target fails a DC 10 Charisma saving throw, you also know the creature's alignment. Celestials, fiends, and undead automatically fail the saving throw.
Additionally, you can no longer be surprised by creatures within your Blindsight radius, and you become proficient in the Perception skill within your Blindsense radius. If you are already proficient in this skill, your proficiency bonus is doubled.
Insightful Soul
When you reach your 11th level, your heightened senses make you receptive to subtle changes around you. You gain +2 to Insight rolls. You also gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature within your Blindsight radius that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you gain advantage on your attacks against the creature until the end of your next turn.
Sixth Sense
At your 17th level, your training has taught you to truly harness your Blindsight against the world around you. You gain +2 Wisdom. Moreover, you can as a reaction spend 3 ki points to completely negate a single attack. You can use this ability once every turn.
If the intention is that an already blind character with this feat isn't "Blinded" and disoriented, I would change Blind Since Birth to say:
- You are naturally blind, meaning you cannot see, and automatically fail any ability check that requires sight.
- You have advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks that rely on hearing, smell, touch, or taste.
- You have Blindsight 10', which you lose if Deafened. Attacks you make against foes outside of this radius or within a zone of silence suffer disadvantage, and attacks against you made by foes outside of this radius or in a zone of silence gain advantage. Attacks you make against and which are made against you by foes within this radius function as if you could see your foe.
- You are immune to the Blinded condition.
At 3rd level, I would not increase Blindsight, or if so, not past 15'... I think that seeing in such a small "bubble" is thematic and will balance some powerful melee bonuses by requiring the Monk to basically hug single targets instead of zip around and punch multiple targets per round. Also, I would move that entire Insightful Soul ability up to 3rd level. Insight feels like a defining part of this class, so it should be up front instead of buried so far down the line. None of it is too strong for level 3, because a) its gated behind a skill check, and b) burning your bonus for advantage (especially at low level when you don't have Extra Attack yet) is a pretty big trade off for a monk that can normally get one or two more attacks with that bonus every round. I would change that +2 bonus to advantage, however, to come in line with the way better senses are treated on monsters (and the Blind Since Birth feat). Also, 5e doesn't really like feat prerequisites for subclasses... but this subclass really needs a blind character to balance it out, so hand it out for free at 3 to force someone to become blind if they aren't a variant human who started with it at level 1.
At 6th level, the first part of Heart Sight is unnecessary, reading emotions is pretty m uch already covered by regular Insight skill checks and we got good at those back at 3. And detecting alignment isn't really a thing any more, even "Detect Good and Evil" only picks up creature types, I would drop it. I would keep the no surprise within radius bonus, keep the bonus Perception proficiency (but drop the expertise if you already have it line, instead give choice of Insight or Investigation), and add "You may add your Wisdom bonus as an additional bonus to all attack rolls against targets within your Blindsight radius." I would have liked to have stuck that in at 3, but it a) would be a little strong on such a light dip into the class, especially if we're interpreting the blindness to not come with disadvantage against foes within Blindsight radius, and b) a bonus to attacks isn't as defining as the Insightful Soul stuff was, which makes Insightful Soul a better gateway into describing what's cool about the class for someone first joining it.
11th... I dunno, I stole Insightful Soul and stuck it earlier. Could hand out a bunch of immunities against Charmed and Frightened? Its better than what Monks picked up at 7 (can end those conditions with an action), so it would still feel nice to get. Also, advantage on saves vs. Illusion spells? 11th level capstones often feel boring, so no big deal.
17th, I would clarify that the +2 Wisdom can raise you above your racial cap and give you a 22. That might be enough on its own right there, but I don't think the 3 ki point ability is too powerful, could keep that too.
What we're left with is a character that has a) received some cool social bonuses, by being the party "lie detector", b) isn't the "scout" of the group, but is a real asset in encounters that involve darkness/fog or against invisible creatures, c) has better-than-normal accuracy against melee targets, and d) is the character of the group that you can count on not to be charmed/frightened/tricked by an illusion. None of this feels unbalanced against the Open Hand or Way of Shadows, although it is probably better than the other five in a group where he's got other people to compensate for his cluelessness beyond 10' or 15'.
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The intention behind Blind by Birth is not that the character doesn't suffer from the Blinded condition. He does suffer from this condition from level 1, but his sense of hearing is better than normal, hence he get Blindsense 30'. This doesn't get rid of the disadvantages from the Blinded condition. As a character normally wouldn't start with the Blinded condition or with Blindsense ability, I am thinking that this is something the player should talk over with his DM first.
Also I am not sure what you mean by "- You have Blindsight 10', which you lose if Deafened", "- You are immune to the Blinded condition". I'm guessing that you would lose your immunity to the Blinded condition if Deafened as well?
Either way, what I had in mind was a character who did not only rely on his hearing for his Blindsight ability starting level 3 (but he would be relying on his hearing for his Blindsense ability), hence the immunity to the Blinded condition. While he has his Blindsense ability though his hearing, his Blindsight comes through is ability to perceive his surroundings through the flow of ki, or ripples in the air or some such.
As I see it, the point of the subclass is that you are not trained in the use of your senses until you choose the subclass, meaning that Blinded immunity and Blindsight is not something you gain until level 3. But perhaps Blindsight should be lowered to 20'.
Insightful Soul could be moved to level 3 with advantage on Insight checks instead of +2.
As I see the Heart Sight ability (level 6) it is not entirely redundant. While it works as an Insight check to a certain degree, it doesn't tell the character whether or not the creature is lying or hiding something, or whether your character believes him or not. It gives the character clues, such as "he is completely calm" or "he is very agitated", which the character then can hold up against the context. The alignment detection can still be useful in cases where you have to judge whether or not a creature is likely to be a foe at some point. There are also creatures that can change shape, such as Werewolfs, Onis, and the Night Hag, and if a small girl was revealed to be evil I would certainly think twice about why that is. I think the Heart Sight ability is a nice and subtle touch. It should probably cost a ki point though. Regarding the Perception proficiency, I think it is vital that this skill gets enhanced as this sub-class is revolving around the character's senses.
At level 11 the monk could get immunity to magic from the school of illusion, as well as "you may add your Wisdom bonus as an additional bonus to all attack rolls against targets within your Blindsight radius."
The +2 Wisdom at level 17 should be able to go above 20 and yes this should probably be clarified.
This is my suggestion so far. I noticed that I had misunderstood the Blinsense ability (taken from the Rogue class). I had forgotten the specific rules and in this context simply understood it as perception relying on hearing. That is not the case and I have made adjustments accordingly. It did make me question one thing though. Should a blind character's perception rolls be treated the same way as a non-blind character's perception rolls? I am going to make another thread regarding that question so we can keep the focus on the question at hand.
Veiled Warrior - Subclass (Blind Since Birth feat required)
Blind Since Birth (level 1 free feat)
Blindsight 10’ (blind beyond this radius. Your Blindsight radius is reduced to 0 if Deafened).
Condition Immunity: Blinded
The Sound of the World
Starting when you choose this tradition at 3rd level, your Blindsight radius is extended to 15 feet and this radius cannot be reduced. Additionally, you gain the Blindsense ability within a 15 feet radius of yourself and you cannot lose this sense.
Insightful Soul
From your 3rd level, your heightened senses make you receptive to subtle changes around you. You gain advantage on Insight rolls within your Blindsense radius. You also gain the ability to decipher an opponent’s tactics and develop a counter to them. As a bonus action, you can make a Wisdom (Insight) check against a creature within your Blindsight radius that isn’t incapacitated, contested by the target’s Charisma (Deception) check. If you succeed, you gain advantage on your attacks against the creature until the end of your next turn.
Heart Sight
At 6th level, your ki-enhanced perception now allows you to pick up nuances of the ki in creatures around you. Using an action, you can spend 1 ki point to focus on a creature within your Blindsight radius and discern the creature's current emotional state. If the target fails a DC 10 Charisma saving throw, you also know the creature's alignment. Celestials, fiends, and undead automatically fail the saving throw.
Moreover, you become proficient with the Perception skill. If you are already proficient with this skill, your proficiency bonus is doubled.
Mind over Matter
When you reach your 11th level, your training has effectively strengthened your mind. You become immune to spells from the Illusion school, and you can add your Wisdom bonus as an additional bonus to all attack rolls against targets within your Blindsight radius.
Sixth Sense
At your 17th level, you have learned to truly harness your Blindsight against the world around you. You gain +2 Wisdom (this ability is not limited by your Wisdom cap). Moreover, you can as a reaction spend 3 ki points to completely negate a single attack. You can use this ability once every turn.
Problem is, at level 3 you're not Blinded any more the way you've written that, so you can see normally and have Blindsight on top of that. That's why I had written up the Blind Since Birth feat in a way that made clear that the vision restrictions it imposes do not spring from the Blinded condition, and that you are also immune to the Blinded condition so that you are protected from it overwriting the way the feat "works." Also, if Blind Since Birth is just the Blinded condition, it can be cured with a level 2 spell, leaving you free blindsense. Being born blind =/= the "Blinded" condition.
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