One of my players wants to put a clone in a bag of holding, so that if they die, the clone comes out of the bag of holding. The clone spell says "It remains inert and endures indefinitely, as long as its vessel remains undisturbed." Would the clone survive in the bag of holding, and if it did, would it have max HP and Spell slots?
See this thread, where folks appear split on whether a Clone is a "creature" or an "object."
The Bag of Holding does have specific rules about killing breathingcreatures:
Breathing creatures inside the bag can survive up to a number of minutes equal to 10 divided by the number of creatures (minimum 1 minute), after which time they begin to suffocate.
If a Clone is (1) not a creature, or (2) not a breathing creature, it should be fine.
I do believe that a Clone is a creature. However, the wording of the spell suggests that the creature may not be a "breathing" creature, depending on how you interpret "inert."
It remains inert and endures indefinitely, as long as its vessel remains undisturbed.
Is inert just motionless? Or more like suspended animation, where it has no biological processes (breathing, heartbeat, thoughts, etc.)? I think suspended animation makes more sense narratively and mechanically.
Finally, even if a Clone is "breathing," the spell does suggest that it should "endure indefinitely" as long as its vessel remains undisturbed. Folks could debate whether "endure indefinitely" clause is more or less specific than the bag's "suffocate" clause, but again, I'd think it's more likely that the Clone "endures indefinitely" even if the bag is trying to suffocate it and it would ordinarily need to breathe.
Your mileage may vary, there's a couple forks in the road there where your DM might disagree.
Finally, re: HP and Spell Slots... even if the Clone is a creature, it is probably not a creature with your features until you die and activate it with your soul. Until then, it doesn't have any hit points, spell slots, ability scores, etc. because it can't meaningfully participate in combat or exploration and doesn't need any of that.
The clone is in a vessel of a size capable of supporting a medium sized creature. The bag can hold only 500 pounds and has 64 cubic feet of space. A 3’x3’x7’ vessel would barely fit in the bag, and the vessel plus the weight of the clone couldn’t exceed 500 pounds. Given that the value of the vessel is exceptional, it would be highly likely that the vessel is quite heavy, and even a simple wooden coffin weighs 150-250 pounds (and certainly wouldn’t be worth 2000 gp without a buttload of ornament which would add to the weight)
basically, it might be impossible to use the bag in this way, even before the clone activates
vessel remains undisturbed (it is already in a sealed vessel)
Asking if there is enough air to breath doesn't matter. Even if it did need to breathe, which it doesn't, and even if there wasn't any air in the bag, the clone would be fine. The vessel is sealed. And, while in the vessel it lasts forever.
Edit: Now, if you're asking can you take the clone out of the vessel and dump just the body into the bag? Sure but now it's just a rotting body since you took it out of its vessel.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I'm with Farling. I don't think the vessel is supposed to be portable. If you think a vessel inside the bag would be undisturbed, try putting a can of soda in a backpack, put it on and jog around for 30 sec, and then open the soda. You could rule that the extradimensional space is not affected by outside forces at all, but that's a DM call and this DM would rule the other way.
I'm with Farling. I don't think the vessel is supposed to be portable. If you think a vessel inside the bag would be undisturbed, try putting a can of soda in a backpack, put it on and jog around for 30 sec, and then open the soda. You could rule that the extradimensional space is not affected by outside forces at all, but that's a DM call and this DM would rule the other way.
The space inside the bag isn't actually inthe bag. extradimensional space isn't interactable by things in the material plane unless something says otherwise.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I'm with Farling. I don't think the vessel is supposed to be portable. If you think a vessel inside the bag would be undisturbed, try putting a can of soda in a backpack, put it on and jog around for 30 sec, and then open the soda. You could rule that the extradimensional space is not affected by outside forces at all, but that's a DM call and this DM would rule the other way.
The space inside the bag isn't actually inthe bag. extradimensional space isn't interactable by things in the material plane unless something says otherwise.
My issue is that the vessel and clone might exceed the volume and/or weight limits of the bag, even if it were the only thing in it. And on scatter/farlings point, the act of placing the vessel into the bag might be enough to consider a "disturbance" by some DMs
2) What does "undisturbed" mean in this context? It could mean just moving the vessel. It could mean touching or breathing on the vessel. However, it could also just mean damaging or opening the vessel. Ask the DM how they interpret "It remains inert and endures indefinitely, as long as its vessel remains undisturbed."
3) If the wizard is in a situation where they have already died then having their survival mechanism in the same place would seem to be a bad idea. A character consumed by a sphere of annihilation with their bag on them will lose themselves and the clone. There are a lot of situations where coming back to life, in a dangerous situation, without any gear or equipment is not going to help the situation.
4) If a wizard wants to survive then they should have the clone on a demiplane that includes a copy of their spell books and backup gear. Considering the character will have likely seen the location where they died, if they really want to get back then planeshift + teleport should get them there within 12 seconds.
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One of my players wants to put a clone in a bag of holding, so that if they die, the clone comes out of the bag of holding. The clone spell says "It remains inert and endures indefinitely, as long as its vessel remains undisturbed." Would the clone survive in the bag of holding, and if it did, would it have max HP and Spell slots?
See this thread, where folks appear split on whether a Clone is a "creature" or an "object."
The Bag of Holding does have specific rules about killing breathing creatures:
If a Clone is (1) not a creature, or (2) not a breathing creature, it should be fine.
I do believe that a Clone is a creature. However, the wording of the spell suggests that the creature may not be a "breathing" creature, depending on how you interpret "inert."
Is inert just motionless? Or more like suspended animation, where it has no biological processes (breathing, heartbeat, thoughts, etc.)? I think suspended animation makes more sense narratively and mechanically.
Finally, even if a Clone is "breathing," the spell does suggest that it should "endure indefinitely" as long as its vessel remains undisturbed. Folks could debate whether "endure indefinitely" clause is more or less specific than the bag's "suffocate" clause, but again, I'd think it's more likely that the Clone "endures indefinitely" even if the bag is trying to suffocate it and it would ordinarily need to breathe.
Your mileage may vary, there's a couple forks in the road there where your DM might disagree.
Finally, re: HP and Spell Slots... even if the Clone is a creature, it is probably not a creature with your features until you die and activate it with your soul. Until then, it doesn't have any hit points, spell slots, ability scores, etc. because it can't meaningfully participate in combat or exploration and doesn't need any of that.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The clone is in a vessel of a size capable of supporting a medium sized creature. The bag can hold only 500 pounds and has 64 cubic feet of space. A 3’x3’x7’ vessel would barely fit in the bag, and the vessel plus the weight of the clone couldn’t exceed 500 pounds. Given that the value of the vessel is exceptional, it would be highly likely that the vessel is quite heavy, and even a simple wooden coffin weighs 150-250 pounds (and certainly wouldn’t be worth 2000 gp without a buttload of ornament which would add to the weight)
basically, it might be impossible to use the bag in this way, even before the clone activates
Asking if there is enough air to breath doesn't matter. Even if it did need to breathe, which it doesn't, and even if there wasn't any air in the bag, the clone would be fine. The vessel is sealed. And, while in the vessel it lasts forever.
Edit: Now, if you're asking can you take the clone out of the vessel and dump just the body into the bag? Sure but now it's just a rotting body since you took it out of its vessel.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Storing the vessel inside the bag would also invalidate the Clone since you are "disturbing" the vessel to move it.
I'm with Farling. I don't think the vessel is supposed to be portable. If you think a vessel inside the bag would be undisturbed, try putting a can of soda in a backpack, put it on and jog around for 30 sec, and then open the soda. You could rule that the extradimensional space is not affected by outside forces at all, but that's a DM call and this DM would rule the other way.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
The space inside the bag isn't actually in the bag. extradimensional space isn't interactable by things in the material plane unless something says otherwise.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Bag of holding might not be big enough, but a Portable Hole probably is -- 10' deep x 6' diameter.
My issue is that the vessel and clone might exceed the volume and/or weight limits of the bag, even if it were the only thing in it. And on scatter/farlings point, the act of placing the vessel into the bag might be enough to consider a "disturbance" by some DMs
Several DM rulings involved.
1) Does a vessel fit in a bag of holding?
2) What does "undisturbed" mean in this context? It could mean just moving the vessel. It could mean touching or breathing on the vessel. However, it could also just mean damaging or opening the vessel. Ask the DM how they interpret "It remains inert and endures indefinitely, as long as its vessel remains undisturbed."
3) If the wizard is in a situation where they have already died then having their survival mechanism in the same place would seem to be a bad idea. A character consumed by a sphere of annihilation with their bag on them will lose themselves and the clone. There are a lot of situations where coming back to life, in a dangerous situation, without any gear or equipment is not going to help the situation.
4) If a wizard wants to survive then they should have the clone on a demiplane that includes a copy of their spell books and backup gear. Considering the character will have likely seen the location where they died, if they really want to get back then planeshift + teleport should get them there within 12 seconds.