Hey, I'm playing in a battle royale with several other people. My rogue is really good against melee and ranged attackers, but I'm worried about his effectiveness against spellcasters. Does anyone have advice on to fix this?
Details:
Everyone's level 20.
Everybody gets 3 common, 3 uncommon, 2 rare and 1 very rare magic items as long as it can match their backstory.
I don't have access to spells.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
Take the Mage Slayer feat. If you’re effective against ranged attackers, then you’re decently effective against spellcasters. Mage Slayer will help break your opponents’ concentration on their spells.
I'm effective against ranged attackers because of the gloves of missile snaring, not my build.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
Battle Royale is going to be pretty tough for a rogue. You won't have any allies letting you trigger Sneak Attack, and will have to find ways to get advantage. I'd really keep that in mind. Find ways to be invisible/hide a lot, I guess.
I'll still be able to get sneak attack because it says "if an enemy of the target is within 5 feet", not an ally.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
Hey, I'm playing in a battle royale with several other people. My rogue is really good against melee and ranged attackers, but I'm worried about his effectiveness against spellcasters. Does anyone have advice on to fix this?
Details:
Everyone's level 20.
Everybody gets 3 common, 3 uncommon, 2 rare and 1 very rare magic items as long as it can match their backstory.
I don't have access to spells.
A battle royale is a substantial number of your abilities being shut down, this is a tough fight. The odds of you being able to take down a Moon Druid are so low they can be basically ignored, and you can't take down a Zealot Barbarian. Your other posts imply you're a pure Swashbuckler. so along with the usual Rogue abilities a battle royale utterly ignores, your L9 and L13 benefits may as well not exist.
Your only hope is that the arena hasn't also been designed to shut down the Rogue kit - Hide in the arena and stay hidden. Let everyone else fight while you stay hidden. For your magic items, invest in things like an amulet of proof against detection and location and a ring of mind shielding. Ideally, the fight will come down to you and the last survivor, who will be as spent as possible from becoming the last survivor. You can safely assume they'll find a way to be impossible to ambush, even if you take sensible steps like bringing a broom of flying to the party, but get as close as you can, rush in, and hope you can drop your target in one round.
I just kill them. Multiple peer reviewed double-blind studies have shown that dead spellcasters cast less spells on average.
We don't know the rules of this battle royale, but a substantial number of spellcasters have access to health pools of functionally infinite size. You may want a slightly better plan.
High elf or half elf using high elf variant race. Pick booming blade.
rogue subclass scout.
feat choice elven accuracy.
use steady aim feature to generate advantage when your target has no adjacent enemies within 5ft of them to allow you sneak attack while using a heavy crossbow. The triple d20s allow you to be slightly more consistent with your crit on the single attack.
use your level 17 scout feature to have the chance use your sneak attack against two separate targets while they are next to each other. If you miss the first shot you can use your bonus action to attempt a second shot vs the first or attempt to target the other creature. Since the two attacks aren’t using the same actions, you aren’t limited by the loading weapon trait.
if an enemy decides to close the distance on you to melee, you can choose between trying to tank with your uncanny dodge or moving half your distance without provoking an opportunity attack as a reaction when that creature ends its turn next to you. You can make use of the reaction movement even on a round you use steady aim.
Ambush master gives you advantage on your initiative with compliments your dexterity investment, this gives you a very high likelihood of taking the first turn in combat. You can use the steady aim feature to give yourself advantage on that first heavy crossbow shot vs the mage so long as they are in range. That’s roughly 43 damage on average vs an 18 AC that probably increases to around 23 AC with shield. That’s a good portion of their maximum hitpoints, and every other creature in the royale will have advantage on all attacks vs that target until the start of your next turn. This will make it difficult for other characters to give up the opportunity of taking that mage out. This is an important turn and attack which will probably set the tide of the encounter. It’s unlikely that you will miss with 3d20s, but if you do you can make use of the stroke of luck feature to turn that miss into a hit.
If you find yourself one on one with a melee combat you can make use of your booming blade cantrip, steady aim, and your skirmisher feature to have a reliable 60 damage a turn on them for your initial attack and using your reaction to move yourself away at the end of their turn making them choose to take the 18 thunder damage or not.
if you find yourself next to two other combatants in a triangle, you can use your action and bonus action to try and attack both of them for double sneak attack damage, and then use your reaction to move away at the end of the first enemy creatures turn. This places confusion on the second creature who may have to choose between attacking the 1st enemy you left behind, or potentially risking an opportunity attack by moving to go after you.
3 common magic items: 3 spellwrought tattoos containing 1st level spells. 1 Gift of alacrity and 2 zephyr strikes.
3 uncommon magic items: eversmoking bottle, dust of disappearance, cloak of protection(attunement)
2 rare magic items: mantle of spells resistance and dagger of blind sight, both req attunement. 1 very rare magic item: +2 studded leather
dust of disappearance gives you an invisibility option at the cost of an action that can’t be dispelled or counterspelled. It’s duration is long enough that you could use your bonus action and hide the majority of the battle if that doesn’t feel too cheesy. The invisibility only ends after the duration, you make an attack, or you cast a spell. You could even run up and use the help action to give a friend-enemy advantage without breaking your invisibility. You’d maybe have to use your bonus action to hide again though.
I specifically made this build to be good against melee attackers, Barbarians in particular. I am a Wood Elf Rogue (scout) with the feat Mobility. This gives me really good movement and the ability to disengage without taking an action or a bonus action. I can jump in, attack and be out of range with my bonus action before they can hit me. I will be using a cloak of displacement, so that if they do get in range they aren't likely to hit me. This build by itself is terrible against ranged attackers with a longbow. So I will be using Gloves of Missile Snaring to solve that problem. I'm focusing more on avoiding damage rather then taking it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
This bad boy may be the best thing I ever found for defense against what you need. Just pop 5 until the problem resolves itself and you can take out the last one or pop the 4 and be imune to any magic outside of your melee reach.
3 common magic items: 3 spellwrought tattoos containing 1st level spells. 1 Gift of alacrity and 2 zephyr strikes.
Gift of alacrity, combined with the Alert feat, gives you a potential of +13 on every initiative roll. Assuming that your dex is maxed out by level 20 (which seems a reasonable assumption), you could have a potential +18 on your initiative roll. And being able to act quickly and first is going to be extremely important to surviving this fight.
Multiclass 3 levels into Battlemaster to get Disarming Attack. Disarm them of their spellcasting focus. GG.
A spellcaster who actually wields their focus instead of wearing it on a strap so they can hold it when they cast deserves what they get. This is like disarming one of their component pouch - if they didn't bring a shoulder strap to the fight, it's their own fault.
Multiclass 3 levels into Battlemaster to get Disarming Attack. Disarm them of their spellcasting focus. GG.
A spellcaster who actually wields their focus instead of wearing it on a strap so they can hold it when they cast deserves what they get. This is like disarming one of their component pouch - if they didn't bring a shoulder strap to the fight, it's their own fault.
For this battle royale, I wonder how many of the other players will think to add multiple arcane focuses?
Adding a strap to your weapon won't stop a Battlemaster from disarming you of it. Either the loop is pulled free, or if there's something attaching it tightly I'd say that it gets cut as part of the attack - it doesn't matter if they chained the weapon to themselves or anything short of using sovereign glue to attach it to their hand, the ability overrides it as it states specifically where it lands.
When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to disarm the target, forcing it to drop one item of your choice that it’s holding. You add the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll, and the target must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, it drops the object you choose. The object lands at its feet.
Alternately; sneak up on them, grapple them, hold their hands down and bind them (if you can) to stop them from casting spells with somatic/material components, and then if you can, gag them to stop them from casting spells with verbal components. Ask the DM if you can have shackles in your inventory to start with (I promise it's not for something kinky I swear!), maybe even ask if they'll allow a gag (again, nothing kinky!). I feel like a lot of players forget about components when they're playing spellcasters, so you could try and use that against them.
Though, a sorcerer's subtle spell as well as an aberrant mind sorcerer's psionic sorcery ability might still get in the way. You'd also want to watch out for class abilities that aren't actually spells and therefore don't require components, like Wild Shape for example.
Multiclass 3 levels into Battlemaster to get Disarming Attack. Disarm them of their spellcasting focus. GG.
A spellcaster who actually wields their focus instead of wearing it on a strap so they can hold it when they cast deserves what they get. This is like disarming one of their component pouch - if they didn't bring a shoulder strap to the fight, it's their own fault.
This just sounds like kids playing make believe in the back yard.
"I shot you with my lazer!"
"Nuh, uh I have a super lazer deflector shield!"
You can't negate a legitimate mechanical feature with a made up description of your gear. If you could, every barbarian would carry around a massive shield that gave them full cover from all ranged spells and attacks until they close at melee range. There is a mechanic for disarming. There is no mechanic for preventing disarming outside of what is detailed in the disarming rules.
Multiclass 3 levels into Battlemaster to get Disarming Attack. Disarm them of their spellcasting focus. GG.
A spellcaster who actually wields their focus instead of wearing it on a strap so they can hold it when they cast deserves what they get. This is like disarming one of their component pouch - if they didn't bring a shoulder strap to the fight, it's their own fault.
This just sounds like kids playing make believe in the back yard.
"I shot you with my lazer!"
"Nuh, uh I have a super lazer deflector shield!"
You can't negate a legitimate mechanical feature with a made up description of your gear. If you could, every barbarian would carry around a massive shield that gave them full cover from all ranged spells and attacks until they close at melee range. There is a mechanic for disarming. There is no mechanic for preventing disarming outside of what is detailed in the disarming rules.
How to tell me you haven't read the disarming rules without telling me you haven't read the disarming rules.
Disarming attack causes the target to drop one object it's holding. It doesn't:
Force a target to hold anything.
A caster has no reason to hold a material component or focus outside of the relevant cast a spell action.
During the cast, they only need to hold the material component, not the entire component pouch.
So even if you Ready an attack to interrupt a cast of a caster using a material component from a pouch, all you'll do is cause them to drop the component.
Force the "drop" to drop the object to the floor.
Component pouches, as written, are belt pouches. Even if the target is holding the pouch and drops it, it won't phase through the belt.
Meanwhile, if you force them to drop the component, they'll just drop it back into the pouch, not necessarily to the ground.
Foci work like material components in every way. You can carry one inside a container and reach into the container each time you need to hold the focus to cast, exactly like casting with a material component.
So yes, you can Ready an action to make a single attack, and if you hit, apply Disarming Attack, forcing the target to make a Strength saving throw or drop the item they're holding. You have no magical way to force them to hold the object outside of the cast, and during the cast, you have no way to force them to hold the object outside of a container. So you just have no practical way to make this a real, genuine problem.
And I haven't invented any of these items, only used their in-game description:
Hey, I'm playing in a battle royale with several other people. My rogue is really good against melee and ranged attackers, but I'm worried about his effectiveness against spellcasters. Does anyone have advice on to fix this?
Details:
Everyone's level 20.
Everybody gets 3 common, 3 uncommon, 2 rare and 1 very rare magic items as long as it can match their backstory.
I don't have access to spells.
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
Take the Mage Slayer feat. If you’re effective against ranged attackers, then you’re decently effective against spellcasters. Mage Slayer will help break your opponents’ concentration on their spells.
I'm effective against ranged attackers because of the gloves of missile snaring, not my build.
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
Battle Royale is going to be pretty tough for a rogue. You won't have any allies letting you trigger Sneak Attack, and will have to find ways to get advantage. I'd really keep that in mind. Find ways to be invisible/hide a lot, I guess.
I'll still be able to get sneak attack because it says "if an enemy of the target is within 5 feet", not an ally.
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
Speaking as someone who loves to play spellcasters…..
Get into melee with them. That’s where they’re at their weakest.
Professional computer geek
A battle royale is a substantial number of your abilities being shut down, this is a tough fight. The odds of you being able to take down a Moon Druid are so low they can be basically ignored, and you can't take down a Zealot Barbarian. Your other posts imply you're a pure Swashbuckler. so along with the usual Rogue abilities a battle royale utterly ignores, your L9 and L13 benefits may as well not exist.
Your only hope is that the arena hasn't also been designed to shut down the Rogue kit - Hide in the arena and stay hidden. Let everyone else fight while you stay hidden. For your magic items, invest in things like an amulet of proof against detection and location and a ring of mind shielding. Ideally, the fight will come down to you and the last survivor, who will be as spent as possible from becoming the last survivor. You can safely assume they'll find a way to be impossible to ambush, even if you take sensible steps like bringing a broom of flying to the party, but get as close as you can, rush in, and hope you can drop your target in one round.
I just kill them. Multiple peer reviewed double-blind studies have shown that dead spellcasters cast less spells on average.
We don't know the rules of this battle royale, but a substantial number of spellcasters have access to health pools of functionally infinite size. You may want a slightly better plan.
High elf or half elf using high elf variant race. Pick booming blade.
rogue subclass scout.
feat choice elven accuracy.
use steady aim feature to generate advantage when your target has no adjacent enemies within 5ft of them to allow you sneak attack while using a heavy crossbow. The triple d20s allow you to be slightly more consistent with your crit on the single attack.
use your level 17 scout feature to have the chance use your sneak attack against two separate targets while they are next to each other. If you miss the first shot you can use your bonus action to attempt a second shot vs the first or attempt to target the other creature. Since the two attacks aren’t using the same actions, you aren’t limited by the loading weapon trait.
if an enemy decides to close the distance on you to melee, you can choose between trying to tank with your uncanny dodge or moving half your distance without provoking an opportunity attack as a reaction when that creature ends its turn next to you. You can make use of the reaction movement even on a round you use steady aim.
Ambush master gives you advantage on your initiative with compliments your dexterity investment, this gives you a very high likelihood of taking the first turn in combat. You can use the steady aim feature to give yourself advantage on that first heavy crossbow shot vs the mage so long as they are in range. That’s roughly 43 damage on average vs an 18 AC that probably increases to around 23 AC with shield. That’s a good portion of their maximum hitpoints, and every other creature in the royale will have advantage on all attacks vs that target until the start of your next turn. This will make it difficult for other characters to give up the opportunity of taking that mage out. This is an important turn and attack which will probably set the tide of the encounter. It’s unlikely that you will miss with 3d20s, but if you do you can make use of the stroke of luck feature to turn that miss into a hit.
If you find yourself one on one with a melee combat you can make use of your booming blade cantrip, steady aim, and your skirmisher feature to have a reliable 60 damage a turn on them for your initial attack and using your reaction to move yourself away at the end of their turn making them choose to take the 18 thunder damage or not.
if you find yourself next to two other combatants in a triangle, you can use your action and bonus action to try and attack both of them for double sneak attack damage, and then use your reaction to move away at the end of the first enemy creatures turn. This places confusion on the second creature who may have to choose between attacking the 1st enemy you left behind, or potentially risking an opportunity attack by moving to go after you.
3 common magic items: 3 spellwrought tattoos containing 1st level spells. 1 Gift of alacrity and 2 zephyr strikes.
3 uncommon magic items: eversmoking bottle, dust of disappearance, cloak of protection(attunement)
2 rare magic items: mantle of spells resistance and dagger of blind sight, both req attunement.
1 very rare magic item: +2 studded leather
dust of disappearance gives you an invisibility option at the cost of an action that can’t be dispelled or counterspelled. It’s duration is long enough that you could use your bonus action and hide the majority of the battle if that doesn’t feel too cheesy. The invisibility only ends after the duration, you make an attack, or you cast a spell. You could even run up and use the help action to give a friend-enemy advantage without breaking your invisibility. You’d maybe have to use your bonus action to hide again though.
I specifically made this build to be good against melee attackers, Barbarians in particular. I am a Wood Elf Rogue (scout) with the feat Mobility. This gives me really good movement and the ability to disengage without taking an action or a bonus action. I can jump in, attack and be out of range with my bonus action before they can hit me. I will be using a cloak of displacement, so that if they do get in range they aren't likely to hit me. This build by itself is terrible against ranged attackers with a longbow. So I will be using Gloves of Missile Snaring to solve that problem. I'm focusing more on avoiding damage rather then taking it.
I love drow, rogues and Chinese weapons. I mean come on, rope darts are awesome.
My current character is a drow shadow monk, with a "unique" honor code (give him some time, he's working through some stuff). He also sucks on the socialization side of interacting with all other living creatures. which is very fun to RP.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/cube-of-force
This bad boy may be the best thing I ever found for defense against what you need. Just pop 5 until the problem resolves itself and you can take out the last one or pop the 4 and be imune to any magic outside of your melee reach.
Hide, stay hidden, let other players exhaust their resources.
If they kill each other off, you win.
If not, you’re at full strength while the last opponent standing is exhausted.
Multiclass 3 levels into Battlemaster to get Disarming Attack. Disarm them of their spellcasting focus. GG.
Gift of alacrity, combined with the Alert feat, gives you a potential of +13 on every initiative roll. Assuming that your dex is maxed out by level 20 (which seems a reasonable assumption), you could have a potential +18 on your initiative roll. And being able to act quickly and first is going to be extremely important to surviving this fight.
A spellcaster who actually wields their focus instead of wearing it on a strap so they can hold it when they cast deserves what they get. This is like disarming one of their component pouch - if they didn't bring a shoulder strap to the fight, it's their own fault.
For this battle royale, I wonder how many of the other players will think to add multiple arcane focuses?
Adding a strap to your weapon won't stop a Battlemaster from disarming you of it. Either the loop is pulled free, or if there's something attaching it tightly I'd say that it gets cut as part of the attack - it doesn't matter if they chained the weapon to themselves or anything short of using sovereign glue to attach it to their hand, the ability overrides it as it states specifically where it lands.
When you hit a creature with a weapon attack, you can expend one superiority die to attempt to disarm the target, forcing it to drop one item of your choice that it’s holding. You add the superiority die to the attack’s damage roll, and the target must make a Strength saving throw. On a failed save, it drops the object you choose. The object lands at its feet.
Alternately; sneak up on them, grapple them, hold their hands down and bind them (if you can) to stop them from casting spells with somatic/material components, and then if you can, gag them to stop them from casting spells with verbal components. Ask the DM if you can have shackles in your inventory to start with (I promise it's not for something kinky I swear!), maybe even ask if they'll allow a gag (again, nothing kinky!). I feel like a lot of players forget about components when they're playing spellcasters, so you could try and use that against them.
Though, a sorcerer's subtle spell as well as an aberrant mind sorcerer's psionic sorcery ability might still get in the way. You'd also want to watch out for class abilities that aren't actually spells and therefore don't require components, like Wild Shape for example.
So it's not airtight, but it's not nothing.
This just sounds like kids playing make believe in the back yard.
"I shot you with my lazer!"
"Nuh, uh I have a super lazer deflector shield!"
You can't negate a legitimate mechanical feature with a made up description of your gear. If you could, every barbarian would carry around a massive shield that gave them full cover from all ranged spells and attacks until they close at melee range. There is a mechanic for disarming. There is no mechanic for preventing disarming outside of what is detailed in the disarming rules.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
How to tell me you haven't read the disarming rules without telling me you haven't read the disarming rules.
Disarming attack causes the target to drop one object it's holding. It doesn't:
So yes, you can Ready an action to make a single attack, and if you hit, apply Disarming Attack, forcing the target to make a Strength saving throw or drop the item they're holding. You have no magical way to force them to hold the object outside of the cast, and during the cast, you have no way to force them to hold the object outside of a container. So you just have no practical way to make this a real, genuine problem.
And I haven't invented any of these items, only used their in-game description: