Bear with me, this will be a fairly long post. The backstory of the character is that he was a deactivated Warforged, whose inert body was found in an archeological dig. Over the course of several years, the body exchanged hands, and ended up in the hands of a Gnome Tinkerer, who after experimentation managed to reanimate the Warforged, using a combination of a Modron power unit, and Pixie Dust. Some kind of weird interaction occured, and the Warforged awoke, memory and knowledge completely wiped clean, but powered by a strong connection to the Plane of Order. Slowly he studied with his Gnome Tinkerer mentor and developed his innate connection to the Plane of Order and became a Clockwork Soul Sorceror.
I used custom lineage to create the character using Warforged as the template for the race, and took the Fey Touched feat (the Pixie Dust left him with some residue connection to the Feywild), and used the standard array
Str 8 Dex 14 Con 12 Int 13 Wis 10 Cha 18 (15, +1 from Fey Touched, +2 from custom lineage).
Currently at 4th level, having just taken the Metamagic Adept feat.
Due to his connection to the Fey, having been activated using Pixie Dust, and for campaign and story reasons, I am considering taking a 3 level dip into Warlock, Arch-Fey patron. I'd go pact of the Tome specifically so that I can replicate the two feats I would like using invocations as substitutes, Eldritch Mind (to give advantage on Con saves for concentration) and Book of Ancient Secrets (which gives me Ritual Casting) to replace having to take Warcaster and Ritual Caster.
The advice I am looking for is regarding the timing of taking the 3 level dip. I'm assuming the campaign isn't going to be played any higher than 14th-15th level at maximum, so would it be better to bite the bullet now, take the 3 level dip immediately, then progress as a Sorc the rest of the way, or wait until I get my second ASI at 8th level as a Sorc, then take the 3 level dip?
Now would be better. Starting at approximately level 10-11, the challenges the party faces will be very difficult, probably. You won't want to be waiting for anything to "come online" at that point - it's generally best to get as much multiclassing as possible out of the way by level 9, with some exceptions.
Appreciate the reply. I was thinking of doing it either once I hit 5th level and get 3rd level spells, then taking the multiclass at that point. I appreciate it does delay accessing higher level spells, but I think the benefits of getting two feats effectively from 3 levels of Warlock outweigh the negative of not getting access to 4th level spells until I hit 10th level.
Sounds like the bulk of what you want is from the invocations. I'd go Sorc 8 first and you'll get your invocations by level 10. Then at 11 I'd probably go Sorc 9 and finish up the warlock after that. Higher level spells are key for harder content in my experience, and I think they'd be more useful than rituals unless there's one that's super important to you. By high levels you often have enough lower level slots that ritual casting is not as big of a deal as it was early on.
I just realised something, whilst you are right I get the 2 invocations at 2nd level of Warlock, I can't take Book of Ancient Secrets as an invocation until I hit 3rd level of Warlock, as I need to have Pact of the Tome, which I don't get until 3rd level.
I do agree with you that delaying access to higher level spells could be problematic at higher levels, but I do think that the benefits of effectively getting two feats which most Sorcerors would love to have (Warcaster and Ritual Casting) without having to sacrifice either the ASI to your Cha, or any other feat which you would want to take, like Metamagic Adept (which I think is a feat that the earlier you take it as a Sorc, the more value it has to you), or half-feats like Fey Touched or Shadow Touched, if you have an odd number in Charisma, and want something that will boost your Cha by +1 and give you additional spell options.
Storywise, if it would suit your preferred story arc to start with warlock but with the full intention of multiclassing with sorcerer, it might be possible to ask your DM if you could start with or later acquire the sorcerer saving throws. In this case, it may not hurt to ask a question.
If your preference, in any case, would be to start with sorcerer then no matter.
In this particular campaign, due to the character's backstory it made more sense to pick Sorceror first, then multiclass, but in future, I agree that going Warlock first would normally make more sense. I've spoken with the GM regarding this, and he has already bought into the idea, and is going to weave it into the storyline. That's also something I would always recommend doing, taking about multiclassing with your GM before you actually do it, or if you plan to make a multi-class character, let the GM know in advance so it can be part of your story as to why you are developing new talents and skills, rather than, "I'm going to take a dip in Cleric this level", without any RP or previous religious leanings or behaviour simply for a mechanical benefit.
In terms of multi-classing, my own personal rule is, I don't multiclass a character unless there are compelling story reasons (either backstory or campaign) that make it a logical and reasonable choice for any character. I love to munchkin, don't get me wrong, but that is more from an intellectual exercise perspective, rather in many cases, an intent to actually play the character.
Nowadays, I normally have the idea for who the character is first, then build race and class from there. That's just me though, and there are a multitude of different ways of building a character, all of which are valid, so long as the player is enjoying playing the character. What I'd never recommend is watching some videos on YT or Twitch, and seeing an optimised build of some kind and decide to play that on the basis of 1.5 DPR more than anyone else... Play whomever you want, and just have fun....
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Hi folks.
Bear with me, this will be a fairly long post. The backstory of the character is that he was a deactivated Warforged, whose inert body was found in an archeological dig. Over the course of several years, the body exchanged hands, and ended up in the hands of a Gnome Tinkerer, who after experimentation managed to reanimate the Warforged, using a combination of a Modron power unit, and Pixie Dust. Some kind of weird interaction occured, and the Warforged awoke, memory and knowledge completely wiped clean, but powered by a strong connection to the Plane of Order. Slowly he studied with his Gnome Tinkerer mentor and developed his innate connection to the Plane of Order and became a Clockwork Soul Sorceror.
I used custom lineage to create the character using Warforged as the template for the race, and took the Fey Touched feat (the Pixie Dust left him with some residue connection to the Feywild), and used the standard array
Str 8
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 18 (15, +1 from Fey Touched, +2 from custom lineage).
Currently at 4th level, having just taken the Metamagic Adept feat.
Due to his connection to the Fey, having been activated using Pixie Dust, and for campaign and story reasons, I am considering taking a 3 level dip into Warlock, Arch-Fey patron. I'd go pact of the Tome specifically so that I can replicate the two feats I would like using invocations as substitutes, Eldritch Mind (to give advantage on Con saves for concentration) and Book of Ancient Secrets (which gives me Ritual Casting) to replace having to take Warcaster and Ritual Caster.
The advice I am looking for is regarding the timing of taking the 3 level dip. I'm assuming the campaign isn't going to be played any higher than 14th-15th level at maximum, so would it be better to bite the bullet now, take the 3 level dip immediately, then progress as a Sorc the rest of the way, or wait until I get my second ASI at 8th level as a Sorc, then take the 3 level dip?
Now would be better. Starting at approximately level 10-11, the challenges the party faces will be very difficult, probably. You won't want to be waiting for anything to "come online" at that point - it's generally best to get as much multiclassing as possible out of the way by level 9, with some exceptions.
Appreciate the reply. I was thinking of doing it either once I hit 5th level and get 3rd level spells, then taking the multiclass at that point. I appreciate it does delay accessing higher level spells, but I think the benefits of getting two feats effectively from 3 levels of Warlock outweigh the negative of not getting access to 4th level spells until I hit 10th level.
Sounds like the bulk of what you want is from the invocations. I'd go Sorc 8 first and you'll get your invocations by level 10. Then at 11 I'd probably go Sorc 9 and finish up the warlock after that. Higher level spells are key for harder content in my experience, and I think they'd be more useful than rituals unless there's one that's super important to you. By high levels you often have enough lower level slots that ritual casting is not as big of a deal as it was early on.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I just realised something, whilst you are right I get the 2 invocations at 2nd level of Warlock, I can't take Book of Ancient Secrets as an invocation until I hit 3rd level of Warlock, as I need to have Pact of the Tome, which I don't get until 3rd level.
I do agree with you that delaying access to higher level spells could be problematic at higher levels, but I do think that the benefits of effectively getting two feats which most Sorcerors would love to have (Warcaster and Ritual Casting) without having to sacrifice either the ASI to your Cha, or any other feat which you would want to take, like Metamagic Adept (which I think is a feat that the earlier you take it as a Sorc, the more value it has to you), or half-feats like Fey Touched or Shadow Touched, if you have an odd number in Charisma, and want something that will boost your Cha by +1 and give you additional spell options.
Storywise, if it would suit your preferred story arc to start with warlock but with the full intention of multiclassing with sorcerer, it might be possible to ask your DM if you could start with or later acquire the sorcerer saving throws. In this case, it may not hurt to ask a question.
If your preference, in any case, would be to start with sorcerer then no matter.
In this particular campaign, due to the character's backstory it made more sense to pick Sorceror first, then multiclass, but in future, I agree that going Warlock first would normally make more sense. I've spoken with the GM regarding this, and he has already bought into the idea, and is going to weave it into the storyline. That's also something I would always recommend doing, taking about multiclassing with your GM before you actually do it, or if you plan to make a multi-class character, let the GM know in advance so it can be part of your story as to why you are developing new talents and skills, rather than, "I'm going to take a dip in Cleric this level", without any RP or previous religious leanings or behaviour simply for a mechanical benefit.
In terms of multi-classing, my own personal rule is, I don't multiclass a character unless there are compelling story reasons (either backstory or campaign) that make it a logical and reasonable choice for any character. I love to munchkin, don't get me wrong, but that is more from an intellectual exercise perspective, rather in many cases, an intent to actually play the character.
Nowadays, I normally have the idea for who the character is first, then build race and class from there. That's just me though, and there are a multitude of different ways of building a character, all of which are valid, so long as the player is enjoying playing the character. What I'd never recommend is watching some videos on YT or Twitch, and seeing an optimised build of some kind and decide to play that on the basis of 1.5 DPR more than anyone else... Play whomever you want, and just have fun....