So i have recently started playing dnd 5e and my first charcter is a oathbreaker paladin, but i have already encountered a huge flaw in the campaign i'm playing.
I have dived into a baulders gate hell type campaign without knowing much about it or my class and have now learned that most enemies i'm encountering are fiend and demon or undead types and as of lv7 a oathbreaker paladin gets aura of hate which buffs all fiend and undead types around my charcter regardless if they are friendly or not, so i am having to rework my charcter and change my class as i progress through game.
So im looking for a new class/ multiclass working with paladin as its base if anyone has any suggestions for best oath for paladin and which would be the best multiclass to work with, my charcter is currently lv 5 and im not sure if until i can change / renew my oath which i havent yet chosen because i chose to start out as a oathbreaker paladin at lv3 my current multiclass choice ideas are echo knight, warlock or sorcerer but im not sure which would be the best choice, all advice welcome if anyone has any tips or ideas.
I have to say, I'd bail out of paladin altogether if you're not especially interested in the role-playing part embodied by the oath. The character is kind of built around the Oath. That's why they're paladins and not fighters. Rather than worry about the most efficient oath for the specific story, I'd move into fighter.
That might be a idea, unfortunately i cant change my character now other than multiclass so thats a bit problematic as such, i was orginally drawn to the paladin class cause it was a combo of melee and magic and the oathbreaker class was as close as i could find to being a deathknight type build cause my dm didnt want homebrew classes in this particular campaign so i need to find a new oath / multiclass as a work around for this campaign
That might be a idea, unfortunately i cant change my character now other than multiclass so thats a bit problematic as such, i was orginally drawn to the paladin class cause it was a combo of melee and magic and the oathbreaker class was as close as i could find to being a deathknight type build cause my dm didnt want homebrew classes in this particular campaign so i need to find a new oath / multiclass as a work around for this campaign
Conquest or vengeance might be a good replacement for oathbreaker for a death knight feel. Going a few levels of warlock could help, hexblade being a good melee basis.
You'll probably want to explain the flavor that you are looking for a little better to help others with suggestions for you. What makes the character that you are envisioning?
Probably the two Oath's that could even come close to being Oath Breaker-adjacent are Conquest and Vengeance. Conquest is all about making people terrified of you and Vengeance is obvious. Out of the two - I think a Conquest paladin could be themed to be Death Knight-like - you just wouldn't get animate dead.
Well its a fire genasi paladin with a chaotic nutural play style, i'm currently stuck using a sword and shield play style after obtaining a legendary shield which i need to use / equip to use its effects, im trying to figure out a way to do more dps cause i feel my charcter falls kinda lackluster compared with the other players, paladin is meant to be quiet powerful early game a lot of people said but it seems its being outdone easily, my playstyle is to be in the middle of the fight hacking and slashing my way through the enemies while also being able to use magic
Hexblade Warlock/Paladin is always a solid choice. It lets you focus hard on CHA as your primary stat going forward, and pairs well with the Sword-and-Board fighting style carrying a shield (since the Hex Warrior feature only applies to one-handed weapons). Hexblade's Curse can really boost your damage potential against a single target and doesn't take concentration, so you can combine it with other spells like Hex, which gives a straight damage boost on every attack you make. After getting deep enough into the class to get your pact boons, if you take Pact of the Blade you can also grab the Life Drinker invocation, which adds a +CHA necrotic damage to every attack you make with your pact weapon, so you could potentially deal 1d8+CHA+Proficiency+CHA Necrotic + 1d6 Necrotic with every attack, assuming the fight lasts long enough for you to hit your target with Hexblade's Curse and the Hex spell.
The basic method of doing a lot of damage as a Paladin is waiting until you get a critical hit and dumping your highest level spell slot into a Divine Smite - because it gets doubled too. Paladin's can do an absolutely obscene amount of damage in a single hit that way.
Besides - as a Paladin your role is more than a simple damage dispenser. You can soak more damage than most others - you can heal a bit - you can cast spells to affect enemies or friends. Focussing on purely damage is doing yourself a disservice.
Well you can atone. Whatever you did to become an oath breaker (or if you didnt role play what u did thats fine, just make up something.) Atoning will allow you to chose a different non evil oath. You can only atone once with an oath breaker paladin according to lore but the DM can always change that if they feel its neccesary. So if you feel like you want to go back to an oathbreaker then you wont be able to go back to good with that character unless you have your DM's approval.
Id say vengeance pally would really mesh well with a chaotic neutral fire genasi. The main thing you need to do to get that damage up is remember to use your Smites. Nine times out of ten, that's what you wanna use your spell slots on.
That might be a idea, unfortunately i cant change my character now other than multiclass so thats a bit problematic as such, i was orginally drawn to the paladin class cause it was a combo of melee and magic and the oathbreaker class was as close as i could find to being a deathknight type build cause my dm didnt want homebrew classes in this particular campaign so i need to find a new oath / multiclass as a work around for this campaign
You can always change your character, some DMs just require that your current character has to die first. Sounds like those buffed fiends/undead should be able to take care of it... It's not even a bad bit of story for the oathbreaking paladin to be consumed by his vices.
But really, a new player should be given some leeway to adjust their character as they learn the game. It's not unreasonable for you to ask for that.
So seems that the oath of vengence is probably the way to go but now the only question is what to multi class into with about 3 levels until i can change my oath back and compliment my character, both sorcerer and warlock give extra spell slots and have their benefits to compliment the charcter , also the lv20 oath of vengeance ability isint worth it, so its better to find something that's more useful unless there is a better option to multiclass with that anyone could suggest
Sorry but to me it sounds more like a style of play issue rather than wrong class, I say this because I had the same problem :) It took an few trips to 0 Hit points for me to learn.
Bare in mind that a Paladin can take the hits better than most, so makes an ideal tank. 1stly maximise AC (Plate armour, Shield, Defensive fighting style). Next, this is situational, instead of just wading in, try to find a bottle neck to funnel your enemies towards you and that stops you being surrounded (doorway, gap between rocks, narrowing of the street, etc) its not retreating its picking your battle ground. The rest of your party goes behind you, unless you have another Tank (Circle of the Moon Druid in Bear Shape for example). Distance fighter (archers, wizards etc) go at the back preferably behind full cover so they can pop out shoot and pop back in on their turn, mid weight fighters go in between to mop up any that get past you looking for softer targets (set up a reaction to take a swing at anything that comes past so that they hopefully get to the mid weight fighters damaged). Then it is just a case of conserving your spell slots to be used for Devine Smite and Shield of Faith as required and topping up health whilst you and the distance fighters mop them up.
Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the Aura of Hate problem, if its not undead or fiends it's a great benefit, if it isn't then as you probably have a higher AC than those you are fighting, its still weighted in your favour. Also, you have used Control Undead to have their biggest and badest fighting for you, haven't you?
If you are going to multiclass look at warlock (Hexblade, Pact of the Blade) it meshes in very well. if you do pick up the Devils Sight Invocation as combined with the Darkness spell you get from Oathbreaker it's devastating. (drop darkness over you so you are fighting in a bubble of darkness that even darkvision can not see in, the Devils Sight allows you to see, then you are fighting enemies when you have advantage to every attack roll and they have disadvantage on all of theirs; add to that how hard a Paladin is to hit in the first place ....)
Best Advice, if you are not enjoying it change it so you are, what ever it takes :)
Yeah i havent made it to hell yeah so no undead to control yet, but been lots of fiend enemies so im a tad scared whats going to happen when i do, and yeah warlock is definitely a good choice from the sounds, extra spell slots and spells as well as i regain spell slots from a short rest
Paladin / Warlock is a great combo - check out the Undead patron, pact of the Blade - if you're going for a Deathknight, it's the way to go. I think it's better than Hex Blade, frankly. See if your DM will let you go Vengeance.
I'm building my first Paladin/Sorcerer (first time multi-classing as well) in a 3 player party in which we are all vampires. The other two are a Rogue and a Warlock. I'm using the dhampir race and Aberrant Mind Sorcerer for the cool flavour of walking on walls and talking telepathically, and I think the features are generally pretty solid.
I want to play an Oathbreaker Paladin but the Aura of Hate helping enemies is freaking me out a bit. Do you have any other tips or suggestions as to how to avoid that blowing up in my face?
I'm building my first Paladin/Sorcerer (first time multi-classing as well) in a 3 player party in which we are all vampires. The other two are a Rogue and a Warlock. I'm using the dhampir race and Aberrant Mind Sorcerer for the cool flavour of walking on walls and talking telepathically, and I think the features are generally pretty solid.
I want to play an Oathbreaker Paladin but the Aura of Hate helping enemies is freaking me out a bit. Do you have any other tips or suggestions as to how to avoid that blowing up in my face?
Before I begin I'd like to congratulate you on a rather fascinating idea and your execution of it thus far.
There's two ways you can go about this: one is to accept that your evil nature (whether you want to fight it or not) is going to feed other creatures willingly or otherwise, so you can either defeat your foes or subjugate them, and use your Aura of Hate to improve yourself and your newfound followers. Alternatively, you can take another Oath that are probably easier for evil characters to play than good/neutral ones, such as Conquest or Vengeance, which provide their own roleplay to tie into your vampiric origins.
There is also the question of if your characters are going to reach 7th level. You could always speak to your DM about homebrewing a similar Oath that's more in line with your vampiric tenets and powers.
I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do!
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Thank you! I think I'm feeling a bit more comfortable with it. Part of my PCs background is that he was a paladin commander before turning, so I figure that might play well into the idea that his undead foes are bolstered by their hatred for him as a known legendary fiend/undead slayer. His history as a commander works well with the Oathbreaker ability to fear and control undead too. Reminds me of Talion from LOTR Shadow of War if you've played that. Then my PC becoming a dhampir himself and breaking his oath.. plays nicely to the idea of a crazy (aberrant mind) and conflicted neutral/evil player.
After reading about Polearm Master I'm really tempted to push for that in my build too. It seems crazy good combined with the 11+ modifier damage I'll be doing at 7th/8th lvl. That also makes improved divine smite look great too, potentially adding a further 4d8 to a potential 4 attacks a turn. Huge reliable damage. I kind of want to get rid of my sorc dip to make that happen sooner but that might kill a lot of my flavour and versatility.
What do you think?
I'd take a warlock dip instead of sorc as it seems I'd get more mechanical value out of a small hex dip, but I don't want to step on toes in my party so I'd better stick with sorc if I do multi-class. I have a little too much fun min-maxing haha I never thought I'd like paladins but they seem awesome!
I'm not the expert so I couldn't say, but I think that all sounds good. Talk to your DM about what kinds of feats they'll allow; if a +11 seems too good to be true, it probably is. And it'd be a shame to get rid of the Sorcerer dip that will give you so much flavour and base abilities, as well as your metamagic points to buy spell slots for smites. I wish you luck with whatever you choose in the end, and a great game thereafter!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
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So i have recently started playing dnd 5e and my first charcter is a oathbreaker paladin, but i have already encountered a huge flaw in the campaign i'm playing.
I have dived into a baulders gate hell type campaign without knowing much about it or my class and have now learned that most enemies i'm encountering are fiend and demon or undead types and as of lv7 a oathbreaker paladin gets aura of hate which buffs all fiend and undead types around my charcter regardless if they are friendly or not, so i am having to rework my charcter and change my class as i progress through game.
So im looking for a new class/ multiclass working with paladin as its base if anyone has any suggestions for best oath for paladin and which would be the best multiclass to work with, my charcter is currently lv 5 and im not sure if until i can change / renew my oath which i havent yet chosen because i chose to start out as a oathbreaker paladin at lv3 my current multiclass choice ideas are echo knight, warlock or sorcerer but im not sure which would be the best choice, all advice welcome if anyone has any tips or ideas.
I have to say, I'd bail out of paladin altogether if you're not especially interested in the role-playing part embodied by the oath. The character is kind of built around the Oath. That's why they're paladins and not fighters. Rather than worry about the most efficient oath for the specific story, I'd move into fighter.
That might be a idea, unfortunately i cant change my character now other than multiclass so thats a bit problematic as such, i was orginally drawn to the paladin class cause it was a combo of melee and magic and the oathbreaker class was as close as i could find to being a deathknight type build cause my dm didnt want homebrew classes in this particular campaign so i need to find a new oath / multiclass as a work around for this campaign
Conquest or vengeance might be a good replacement for oathbreaker for a death knight feel. Going a few levels of warlock could help, hexblade being a good melee basis.
You'll probably want to explain the flavor that you are looking for a little better to help others with suggestions for you. What makes the character that you are envisioning?
Probably the two Oath's that could even come close to being Oath Breaker-adjacent are Conquest and Vengeance. Conquest is all about making people terrified of you and Vengeance is obvious. Out of the two - I think a Conquest paladin could be themed to be Death Knight-like - you just wouldn't get animate dead.
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Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Well its a fire genasi paladin with a chaotic nutural play style, i'm currently stuck using a sword and shield play style after obtaining a legendary shield which i need to use / equip to use its effects, im trying to figure out a way to do more dps cause i feel my charcter falls kinda lackluster compared with the other players, paladin is meant to be quiet powerful early game a lot of people said but it seems its being outdone easily, my playstyle is to be in the middle of the fight hacking and slashing my way through the enemies while also being able to use magic
Hexblade Warlock/Paladin is always a solid choice. It lets you focus hard on CHA as your primary stat going forward, and pairs well with the Sword-and-Board fighting style carrying a shield (since the Hex Warrior feature only applies to one-handed weapons). Hexblade's Curse can really boost your damage potential against a single target and doesn't take concentration, so you can combine it with other spells like Hex, which gives a straight damage boost on every attack you make. After getting deep enough into the class to get your pact boons, if you take Pact of the Blade you can also grab the Life Drinker invocation, which adds a +CHA necrotic damage to every attack you make with your pact weapon, so you could potentially deal 1d8+CHA+Proficiency+CHA Necrotic + 1d6 Necrotic with every attack, assuming the fight lasts long enough for you to hit your target with Hexblade's Curse and the Hex spell.
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The basic method of doing a lot of damage as a Paladin is waiting until you get a critical hit and dumping your highest level spell slot into a Divine Smite - because it gets doubled too. Paladin's can do an absolutely obscene amount of damage in a single hit that way.
Besides - as a Paladin your role is more than a simple damage dispenser. You can soak more damage than most others - you can heal a bit - you can cast spells to affect enemies or friends. Focussing on purely damage is doing yourself a disservice.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Well you can atone. Whatever you did to become an oath breaker (or if you didnt role play what u did thats fine, just make up something.) Atoning will allow you to chose a different non evil oath. You can only atone once with an oath breaker paladin according to lore but the DM can always change that if they feel its neccesary. So if you feel like you want to go back to an oathbreaker then you wont be able to go back to good with that character unless you have your DM's approval.
Id say vengeance pally would really mesh well with a chaotic neutral fire genasi. The main thing you need to do to get that damage up is remember to use your Smites. Nine times out of ten, that's what you wanna use your spell slots on.
You can always change your character, some DMs just require that your current character has to die first. Sounds like those buffed fiends/undead should be able to take care of it... It's not even a bad bit of story for the oathbreaking paladin to be consumed by his vices.
But really, a new player should be given some leeway to adjust their character as they learn the game. It's not unreasonable for you to ask for that.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
So seems that the oath of vengence is probably the way to go but now the only question is what to multi class into with about 3 levels until i can change my oath back and compliment my character, both sorcerer and warlock give extra spell slots and have their benefits to compliment the charcter , also the lv20 oath of vengeance ability isint worth it, so its better to find something that's more useful unless there is a better option to multiclass with that anyone could suggest
Sorry but to me it sounds more like a style of play issue rather than wrong class, I say this because I had the same problem :) It took an few trips to 0 Hit points for me to learn.
Bare in mind that a Paladin can take the hits better than most, so makes an ideal tank. 1stly maximise AC (Plate armour, Shield, Defensive fighting style). Next, this is situational, instead of just wading in, try to find a bottle neck to funnel your enemies towards you and that stops you being surrounded (doorway, gap between rocks, narrowing of the street, etc) its not retreating its picking your battle ground. The rest of your party goes behind you, unless you have another Tank (Circle of the Moon Druid in Bear Shape for example). Distance fighter (archers, wizards etc) go at the back preferably behind full cover so they can pop out shoot and pop back in on their turn, mid weight fighters go in between to mop up any that get past you looking for softer targets (set up a reaction to take a swing at anything that comes past so that they hopefully get to the mid weight fighters damaged). Then it is just a case of conserving your spell slots to be used for Devine Smite and Shield of Faith as required and topping up health whilst you and the distance fighters mop them up.
Also, I wouldn't worry too much about the Aura of Hate problem, if its not undead or fiends it's a great benefit, if it isn't then as you probably have a higher AC than those you are fighting, its still weighted in your favour. Also, you have used Control Undead to have their biggest and badest fighting for you, haven't you?
If you are going to multiclass look at warlock (Hexblade, Pact of the Blade) it meshes in very well. if you do pick up the Devils Sight Invocation as combined with the Darkness spell you get from Oathbreaker it's devastating. (drop darkness over you so you are fighting in a bubble of darkness that even darkvision can not see in, the Devils Sight allows you to see, then you are fighting enemies when you have advantage to every attack roll and they have disadvantage on all of theirs; add to that how hard a Paladin is to hit in the first place ....)
Best Advice, if you are not enjoying it change it so you are, what ever it takes :)
Dum Vivimus vivamus
Yeah i havent made it to hell yeah so no undead to control yet, but been lots of fiend enemies so im a tad scared whats going to happen when i do, and yeah warlock is definitely a good choice from the sounds, extra spell slots and spells as well as i regain spell slots from a short rest
Paladin / Warlock is a great combo - check out the Undead patron, pact of the Blade - if you're going for a Deathknight, it's the way to go. I think it's better than Hex Blade, frankly. See if your DM will let you go Vengeance.
You may want to take a look at this build by Treatmonk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeTYXJNzbqM&t=8s
Watch your back, conserve your ammo,
and NEVER cut a deal with a dragon!
I'm building my first Paladin/Sorcerer (first time multi-classing as well) in a 3 player party in which we are all vampires. The other two are a Rogue and a Warlock. I'm using the dhampir race and Aberrant Mind Sorcerer for the cool flavour of walking on walls and talking telepathically, and I think the features are generally pretty solid.
I want to play an Oathbreaker Paladin but the Aura of Hate helping enemies is freaking me out a bit. Do you have any other tips or suggestions as to how to avoid that blowing up in my face?
Before I begin I'd like to congratulate you on a rather fascinating idea and your execution of it thus far.
There's two ways you can go about this: one is to accept that your evil nature (whether you want to fight it or not) is going to feed other creatures willingly or otherwise, so you can either defeat your foes or subjugate them, and use your Aura of Hate to improve yourself and your newfound followers. Alternatively, you can take another Oath that are probably easier for evil characters to play than good/neutral ones, such as Conquest or Vengeance, which provide their own roleplay to tie into your vampiric origins.
There is also the question of if your characters are going to reach 7th level. You could always speak to your DM about homebrewing a similar Oath that's more in line with your vampiric tenets and powers.
I wish you luck with whatever you decide to do!
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
Thank you! I think I'm feeling a bit more comfortable with it. Part of my PCs background is that he was a paladin commander before turning, so I figure that might play well into the idea that his undead foes are bolstered by their hatred for him as a known legendary fiend/undead slayer. His history as a commander works well with the Oathbreaker ability to fear and control undead too. Reminds me of Talion from LOTR Shadow of War if you've played that. Then my PC becoming a dhampir himself and breaking his oath.. plays nicely to the idea of a crazy (aberrant mind) and conflicted neutral/evil player.
After reading about Polearm Master I'm really tempted to push for that in my build too. It seems crazy good combined with the 11+ modifier damage I'll be doing at 7th/8th lvl. That also makes improved divine smite look great too, potentially adding a further 4d8 to a potential 4 attacks a turn. Huge reliable damage. I kind of want to get rid of my sorc dip to make that happen sooner but that might kill a lot of my flavour and versatility.
What do you think?
I'd take a warlock dip instead of sorc as it seems I'd get more mechanical value out of a small hex dip, but I don't want to step on toes in my party so I'd better stick with sorc if I do multi-class. I have a little too much fun min-maxing haha I never thought I'd like paladins but they seem awesome!
I'm not the expert so I couldn't say, but I think that all sounds good. Talk to your DM about what kinds of feats they'll allow; if a +11 seems too good to be true, it probably is. And it'd be a shame to get rid of the Sorcerer dip that will give you so much flavour and base abilities, as well as your metamagic points to buy spell slots for smites. I wish you luck with whatever you choose in the end, and a great game thereafter!
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft