What do you think is/are the most powerful subclass/es in the game? (The poll covers any potentially relevant issues: damage output, healing output and general versatility during all adventuring phases - anything that is important to you). What are your rankings? What do you think of them and how do you handle them at your tables?
I think Peace Cleric received at least one vote under "Other subclass of class mentioned" and, in retrospect, I should have placed this option in the poll.
Another vote seems to have gone to bladesinger
Please notify your vote choices if you vote for one of the other options.
Eloquence Bard is an interesting because it doesn't have a lot of features that make it super powerful in combat or anything, but right at level 3 the subclass instantly trivializes virtually all social encounters. Take expertise in Deception and Persuasion, and even if you're, for some reason, playing a Bard with +0 CHA you're still guaranteed a minimum 18 on any social encounter. It practically just eliminates that entire part of the game.
I also voted for Chronurgy Wizard, because Wizards are already a beast of a class and Chronurgy is just devastating in so many major ways.
Twilight Cleric, Gloomstalker Ranger and Chronurgy Wizard. They are powerful all way up from 1 to 20, and also have great synergies with clever multiclass.
Hexblade Warlock is the best 1-2 dip, but just this.
I voted Twilight cleric but peace cleric comes very close both are extremely strong either as a single class or a dip..
For certain builds e.g .a paladin, hexblade might be more powerful as a dip but both twilight and peace clerics offer huge benefits to any character that has reasonably high wisdom .
Twilight cleric is well known peace cleric less so, it doesn't make one player extremely powerful it makes the whole party significantly more powerful.
As he hit level 20 my monk took a his final level as a 1st level peace cleric. with an Ioun stone of mastery up to seven creatures (you can include, simlcrums, pets, familiars etc) can essentailly be blessed and guided for 10 minutes 7 times a day (which is virtually permanently in practice). While emboldening bold is great at low levels due to it linked to proficiencty bonus in both number of creatures and number of times a day it gets insane as a high level dip.
Protective bond completely negates the strategy of going after the weakest / most important target. fighting two powerful enemies the wizard successfully banishes one, the other knowing on his own he is doomed wants to take the wizard out, preferably killing him outright but at least getting him to lose concentration so he casts blight only to find the totem Barbarian takes his place with the barbs sack of hitpoint and resistance to all damage he hardly flinchs at the blight and most importanty banish is still up. It also means you can use familiars who either get hit with stones or dive to the ground from 10ft to essentially misty step the whole party. The creative party can think of plenty more shenanigans.
If you get to 17 Expansive bond increases the effective hit points of the party enormously you might not use it on the minions attacks bt anything you expect is going ot cause significant damage can be halved. The enemy casts meteor swarm and everyone swaps places to get average damage reduced from 140 to 70.
Eloquence Bard is an interesting because it doesn't have a lot of features that make it super powerful in combat or anything, but right at level 3 the subclass instantly trivializes virtually all social encounters. Take expertise in Deception and Persuasion, and even if you're, for some reason, playing a Bard with +0 CHA you're still guaranteed a minimum 18 on any social encounter. It practically just eliminates that entire part of the game.
I also voted for Chronurgy Wizard, because Wizards are already a beast of a class and Chronurgy is just devastating in so many major ways.
Shouldn't that be 14? A 10 from the dice roll, with PB of 2, and a stat bonus of 0? What am I missing?
Eloquence Bard is an interesting because it doesn't have a lot of features that make it super powerful in combat or anything, but right at level 3 the subclass instantly trivializes virtually all social encounters. Take expertise in Deception and Persuasion, and even if you're, for some reason, playing a Bard with +0 CHA you're still guaranteed a minimum 18 on any social encounter. It practically just eliminates that entire part of the game.
I also voted for Chronurgy Wizard, because Wizards are already a beast of a class and Chronurgy is just devastating in so many major ways.
Shouldn't that be 14? A 10 from the dice roll, with PB of 2, and a stat bonus of 0? What am I missing?
Oops, my bad. I was recently talking with someone about a higher-level Rogue who was getting to use Reliable Talent, and I had the math for that build in my head on accident.
Still, if you're playing an Eloquence Bard you'll probably have at least a +3 for your CHA at level 3, and that brings it up to a 17. Not quite as impressive as my mis-remembered values I mentioned earlier, but still enough to completely trivialize social encounters.
Really good point about Peace Cleric. But I have the feeling it’s a strong 1-2 level dip like Hexblade, instead of a strong full progression like Twilight Cleric.
Peace Cleric 1 / Chronurgy Wizard X is the best multiclass in my opinion, better than Artificer because I love Resilient CON.
A party with both twilight and peace clerics could be hard to kill.
Twilight Sanctuary gives loads of temp hp for both/all three uses of channel divinity for those in range.
6th level peace cleric can tap into their 1st level ability to establish bonds between proficiency number of creatures and allow them to use reactions to share damage between each other.
Domain Spells
1st-level Peace Domain feature
You gain domain spells at the cleric levels listed in the Peace Domain Spells table. See the Divine Domain class feature for how domain spells work.
You can forge an empowering bond among people who are at peace with one another. As an action, you choose a number of willing creatures within 30 feet of you (this can include yourself) equal to your proficiency bonus. You create a magical bond among them for 10 minutes or until you use this feature again. While any bonded creature is within 30 feet of another, the creature can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw it makes. Each creature can add the d4 no more than once per turn.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
Channel Divinity: Balm of Peace
2nd-level Peace Domain feature
You can use your Channel Divinity to make your very presence a soothing balm. As an action, you can move up to your speed, without provoking opportunity attacks, and when you move within 5 feet of any other creature during this action, you can restore a number of hit points to that creature equal to 2d6 + your Wisdom modifier (minimum of 1 hit point). A creature can receive this healing only once whenever you take this action.
Protective Bond
6th-level Peace Domain feature
The bond you forge between people helps them protect each other. When a creature affected by your Emboldening Bond feature is about to take damage, a second bonded creature within 30 feet of the first can use its reaction to teleport to an unoccupied space within 5 feet of the first creature. The second creature then takes all the damage instead.
Potent Spellcasting
8th-level Peace Domain feature
You add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you deal with any cleric cantrip.
Expansive Bond
17th-level Peace Domain feature
The benefits of your Emboldening Bond and Protective Bond features now work when the creatures are within 60 feet of each other. Moreover, when a creature uses Protective Bond to take someone else’s damage, the creature has resistance to that damage.
Really good point about Peace Cleric. But I have the feeling it’s a strong 1-2 level dip like Hexblade, instead of a strong full progression like Twilight Cleric.
Peace Cleric 1 / Chronurgy Wizard X is the best multiclass in my opinion, better than Artificer because I love Resilient CON.
I agree it make a fantastic single level dip I would say the strongest dip in the game though unlike hexblade you probably want to take it fairly late (say at level 9)
Because the channel divinity isn't the strongest a single class peace cleric isn't particularly powerful until level 6 but after that protective bond makes them crazy strong and if you are going that far you may as well go to at least 17 for ever spell slots working up to level and another really powerful feature in expansive bond. On top of that potent spellcasting beats divine strike.
If the campaign is level 1 to 8 then peace domain isn't super powerful and is the reason I didn't vote for it top. If the campaign is level 11-20 an party of optimizers can have either pure peace cleric or a PC with a single level dip in peace cleric either would be really strong.
Bladesingers are one of the best singe-class Gish builds in the game. By the time you reach tier 3 play, they outpace Eldritch Knights quite easily.
But by the time you reach tier 3 play, you're not really a gish anymore. You're better off just being a wizard and saving your cantrips for the cleanup round. That's how good wizards are.
I too have played a high-level monk that dipped into Peace cleric. Emboldening Bond scales ridiculously as your proficiency bonus increases both your targets and your uses. But like Hexblade, it's incredibly front-loaded and thus better as a dip. The level 6 ability sounds really good, but in practice many characters are already using their Reactions for stuff that is at least that good.
An ArtiChron where you start as an artificer for CON save, armour and shields as well as cure wounds and then Chronurgy Wizard the rest of the way is insanely powerful.
Really good point about Peace Cleric. But I have the feeling it’s a strong 1-2 level dip like Hexblade, instead of a strong full progression like Twilight Cleric.
Peace Cleric 1 / Chronurgy Wizard X is the best multiclass in my opinion, better than Artificer because I love Resilient CON.
Am I missing something? Peace Clerics don't start with CON save as far as I'm aware. It's one of the reasons to pick Artificer.
Really good point about Peace Cleric. But I have the feeling it’s a strong 1-2 level dip like Hexblade, instead of a strong full progression like Twilight Cleric.
Peace Cleric 1 / Chronurgy Wizard X is the best multiclass in my opinion, better than Artificer because I love Resilient CON.
Am I missing something? Peace Clerics don't start with CON save as far as I'm aware. It's one of the reasons to pick Artificer.
I think what they're saying is that they prefer to take the Cleric/Chronurgy multiclass and just take the Resilient Feat to gain proficiency in CON rather than go out of their way to multiclass into a class that has CON save proficiency natively.
Really good point about Peace Cleric. But I have the feeling it’s a strong 1-2 level dip like Hexblade, instead of a strong full progression like Twilight Cleric.
Peace Cleric 1 / Chronurgy Wizard X is the best multiclass in my opinion, better than Artificer because I love Resilient CON.
Am I missing something? Peace Clerics don't start with CON save as far as I'm aware. It's one of the reasons to pick Artificer.
I think what they're saying is that they prefer to take the Cleric/Chronurgy multiclass and just take the Resilient Feat to gain proficiency in CON rather than go out of their way to multiclass into a class that has CON save proficiency natively.
Exatcly. In the long run, your Artificer will miss WIS saving prof and probably would get Resilient WIS at 8 or 12. I rather round my odd CON at 4 than invest in WIS later, therefore I think Cleric a better dip than Artificer. Actually, I would rate even Hexblade dip higher than Artificers for Wizards. Hexblade Curse is insanely good when combined with Magic Missile, Scorching Ray or Melf’s Minute Meteor, specially if you are a Evoker. Armor of Agathys is crazy good for Abjurers.
As I said, Artificer is nice, but I see more value on getting Resilient CON at 4.
Really good point about Peace Cleric. But I have the feeling it’s a strong 1-2 level dip like Hexblade, instead of a strong full progression like Twilight Cleric.
Peace Cleric 1 / Chronurgy Wizard X is the best multiclass in my opinion, better than Artificer because I love Resilient CON.
Am I missing something? Peace Clerics don't start with CON save as far as I'm aware. It's one of the reasons to pick Artificer.
I think what they're saying is that they prefer to take the Cleric/Chronurgy multiclass and just take the Resilient Feat to gain proficiency in CON rather than go out of their way to multiclass into a class that has CON save proficiency natively.
Exatcly. In the long run, your Artificer will miss WIS saving prof and probably would get Resilient WIS at 8 or 12. I rather round my odd CON at 4 than invest in WIS later, therefore I think Cleric a better dip than Artificer. Actually, I would rate even Hexblade dip higher than Artificers for Wizards. Hexblade Curse is insanely good when combined with Magic Missile, Scorching Ray or Melf’s Minute Meteor, specially if you are a Evoker. Armor of Agathys is crazy good for Abjurers.
As I said, Artificer is nice, but I see more value on getting Resilient CON at 4.
I somewhat disagree. While going Cleric has its obvious benefits, especially if you take 2 levels in Twilight, the main draw of going ArtiChron is that Artificer and Chronurgy both share the same attritube for casting. For a wizard you want a high INT and CON for concentration and + to spells but also DEX for initiative. Add in cleric and you also need a high WIS making the class very MAD.
What do you think is/are the most powerful subclass/es in the game?
(The poll covers any potentially relevant issues: damage output, healing output and general versatility during all adventuring phases - anything that is important to you).
What are your rankings?
What do you think of them and how do you handle them at your tables?
I think Peace Cleric received at least one vote under "Other subclass of class mentioned" and, in retrospect, I should have placed this option in the poll.
Another vote seems to have gone to bladesinger
Please notify your vote choices if you vote for one of the other options.
Eloquence Bard is an interesting because it doesn't have a lot of features that make it super powerful in combat or anything, but right at level 3 the subclass instantly trivializes virtually all social encounters. Take expertise in Deception and Persuasion, and even if you're, for some reason, playing a Bard with +0 CHA you're still guaranteed a minimum 18 on any social encounter. It practically just eliminates that entire part of the game.
I also voted for Chronurgy Wizard, because Wizards are already a beast of a class and Chronurgy is just devastating in so many major ways.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Twilight Cleric, Gloomstalker Ranger and Chronurgy Wizard. They are powerful all way up from 1 to 20, and also have great synergies with clever multiclass.
Hexblade Warlock is the best 1-2 dip, but just this.
I voted Twilight cleric but peace cleric comes very close both are extremely strong either as a single class or a dip..
For certain builds e.g .a paladin, hexblade might be more powerful as a dip but both twilight and peace clerics offer huge benefits to any character that has reasonably high wisdom .
Twilight cleric is well known peace cleric less so, it doesn't make one player extremely powerful it makes the whole party significantly more powerful.
Bladesingers are one of the best singe-class Gish builds in the game. By the time you reach tier 3 play, they outpace Eldritch Knights quite easily.
Shouldn't that be 14? A 10 from the dice roll, with PB of 2, and a stat bonus of 0? What am I missing?
Is this poll about damage output, healing output, general versatility during all adventuring phases?
Thank you, great question and I'd not specified parameters. I'd say all and I'll clarify the OP to that effect.
Oops, my bad. I was recently talking with someone about a higher-level Rogue who was getting to use Reliable Talent, and I had the math for that build in my head on accident.
Still, if you're playing an Eloquence Bard you'll probably have at least a +3 for your CHA at level 3, and that brings it up to a 17. Not quite as impressive as my mis-remembered values I mentioned earlier, but still enough to completely trivialize social encounters.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Really good point about Peace Cleric. But I have the feeling it’s a strong 1-2 level dip like Hexblade, instead of a strong full progression like Twilight Cleric.
Peace Cleric 1 / Chronurgy Wizard X is the best multiclass in my opinion, better than Artificer because I love Resilient CON.
A party with both twilight and peace clerics could be hard to kill.
Twilight Sanctuary gives loads of temp hp for both/all three uses of channel divinity for those in range.
6th level peace cleric can tap into their 1st level ability to establish bonds between proficiency number of creatures and allow them to use reactions to share damage between each other.
Domain Spells
1st-level Peace Domain feature
You gain domain spells at the cleric levels listed in the Peace Domain Spells table. See the Divine Domain class feature for how domain spells work.
Peace Domain Spells
1st
heroism, sanctuary
3rd
aid, warding bond
5th
beacon of hope, sending
7th
aura of purity, Otiluke’s resilient sphere
9th
greater restoration, Rary’s telepathic bond
Implement of Peace
1st-level Peace Domain feature
You gain proficiency in the Insight, Performance, or Persuasion skill (your choice).
Emboldening Bond
1st-level Peace Domain feature
You can forge an empowering bond among people who are at peace with one another. As an action, you choose a number of willing creatures within 30 feet of you (this can include yourself) equal to your proficiency bonus. You create a magical bond among them for 10 minutes or until you use this feature again. While any bonded creature is within 30 feet of another, the creature can roll a d4![]()
and add the number rolled to an attack roll, an ability check, or a saving throw it makes. Each creature can add the d4![]()
no more than once per turn.
You can use this feature a number of times equal to your proficiency bonus, and you regain all expended uses when you finish a long rest.
Channel Divinity: Balm of Peace
2nd-level Peace Domain feature
You can use your Channel Divinity to make your very presence a soothing balm. As an action, you can move up to your speed, without provoking opportunity attacks, and when you move within 5 feet of any other creature during this action, you can restore a number of hit points to that creature equal to 2d6![]()
+ your Wisdom modifier (minimum of 1 hit point). A creature can receive this healing only once whenever you take this action.
Protective Bond
6th-level Peace Domain feature
The bond you forge between people helps them protect each other. When a creature affected by your Emboldening Bond feature is about to take damage, a second bonded creature within 30 feet of the first can use its reaction to teleport to an unoccupied space within 5 feet of the first creature. The second creature then takes all the damage instead.
Potent Spellcasting
8th-level Peace Domain feature
You add your Wisdom modifier to the damage you deal with any cleric cantrip.
Expansive Bond
17th-level Peace Domain feature
The benefits of your Emboldening Bond and Protective Bond features now work when the creatures are within 60 feet of each other. Moreover, when a creature uses Protective Bond to take someone else’s damage, the creature has resistance to that damage.
I agree it make a fantastic single level dip I would say the strongest dip in the game though unlike hexblade you probably want to take it fairly late (say at level 9)
Because the channel divinity isn't the strongest a single class peace cleric isn't particularly powerful until level 6 but after that protective bond makes them crazy strong and if you are going that far you may as well go to at least 17 for ever spell slots working up to level and another really powerful feature in expansive bond. On top of that potent spellcasting beats divine strike.
If the campaign is level 1 to 8 then peace domain isn't super powerful and is the reason I didn't vote for it top. If the campaign is level 11-20 an party of optimizers can have either pure peace cleric or a PC with a single level dip in peace cleric either would be really strong.
But by the time you reach tier 3 play, you're not really a gish anymore. You're better off just being a wizard and saving your cantrips for the cleanup round. That's how good wizards are.
I too have played a high-level monk that dipped into Peace cleric. Emboldening Bond scales ridiculously as your proficiency bonus increases both your targets and your uses. But like Hexblade, it's incredibly front-loaded and thus better as a dip. The level 6 ability sounds really good, but in practice many characters are already using their Reactions for stuff that is at least that good.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
An ArtiChron where you start as an artificer for CON save, armour and shields as well as cure wounds and then Chronurgy Wizard the rest of the way is insanely powerful.
Am I missing something? Peace Clerics don't start with CON save as far as I'm aware. It's one of the reasons to pick Artificer.
I think what they're saying is that they prefer to take the Cleric/Chronurgy multiclass and just take the Resilient Feat to gain proficiency in CON rather than go out of their way to multiclass into a class that has CON save proficiency natively.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
Exatcly. In the long run, your Artificer will miss WIS saving prof and probably would get Resilient WIS at 8 or 12. I rather round my odd CON at 4 than invest in WIS later, therefore I think Cleric a better dip than Artificer. Actually, I would rate even Hexblade dip higher than Artificers for Wizards. Hexblade Curse is insanely good when combined with Magic Missile, Scorching Ray or Melf’s Minute Meteor, specially if you are a Evoker. Armor of Agathys is crazy good for Abjurers.
As I said, Artificer is nice, but I see more value on getting Resilient CON at 4.
Bladesinger
I somewhat disagree. While going Cleric has its obvious benefits, especially if you take 2 levels in Twilight, the main draw of going ArtiChron is that Artificer and Chronurgy both share the same attritube for casting. For a wizard you want a high INT and CON for concentration and + to spells but also DEX for initiative. Add in cleric and you also need a high WIS making the class very MAD.
Twighlight Cleric, no question. Too OP even for me, and that's saying something.
Moon Druid starts off OP AF and then loses it fairly quickly. The improved wild shape does not scale well at all.