This is kind of an out there issue that I am looking for some guidance. I am a playing a CE fighter/barabarian. Well, not true CE, as he had a recent epiphany and realization of how bad being evil is, so he was and is trying to be better, but hasn't quite figured it out yet (i.e. murdered a NPC becuase after being knocked out in a fight he thought the NPC was stealing his stuff, even though the NPC just saved his life and was returning his items). I intended him to be a throw away character to have fun with and once he had a falling out with the mostly good-aligned party or got arrested for randomly killing an npc or something, I would switch him out with a PC that would better fit the campaign. Due to some "signs" from the gods reassuring him he is on the right path and learning a fellow party member's sentient sword slays "evil things," he has decided, in his head at least, to help the sword kill evil. The porblem is when that party member jokingly tells my character that the sword has indicated another member of the party is evil and needs to die. My character isn't the smartest and doesn't realize it is a joke. To make matters worse, my character also hates this particular party member, because of various in game situations and rp. So, my character is like one or two steps away from attacking the guy anyways,. Since everything is telling me that my character would try and kill this party member, between his old CE tendencies and the "divine guidance" he is getting from the sword. I know my dm would allow a bit of infighting, but generalky i think killing a party member might be a bit much. I plan on discussing this with the dm this before the next session, but I was hoping to bring some ideas with me to that conversation to justify not simply murdering this party member in their sleep. Any insight would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
Have you considered discussing it with the player whose character you'd be fighting? Assuming this conflict is actually in-game, that might be the cool way to make sure everyone ends up happy.
Wouldn't it be easier if you "attempt" to kill the other character, but that character and/or the rest of the party kills your character instead? Thus giving you what you want(ed) and not pulling a dick move on someone who invested in an actual TEAM character instead of the temporary intent of your character which screams dick move in the first place.
I won't damn you completely (pun intended...), but there seems to be some possible red flags you should consider.
Your character "isn't the smartest and doesn't understand it's a joke". You know your character best, but this kind of argument can be quite "provocative" for the player/character you eventually is planning to kill.
Same with the "divine" signs that is "reassuring" him he is on the right path. This can very well be read by the other player(s) as you looking for excuses for killing him, turning a blind eye towards jokes and other things, while interpreting everything according to your "wishes". I don't say you intend it like that, but you should be ready for that the other player might feel that.
Talking to your DM sounds like a good start, and I would have considered strongly to talk to the other player as well. YOU made your character as a "throw-away" character, perhaps you should consider at least doing the attack in such a way that you make "sure" it is you who go out with a bang. You could also consider having a "revelation" the moment you stand there about to kill him, and understand that it is you who are about to do something really evil. Either use it as a turning point towards the good, or the final fall into darkness...
You can just say "oh yeah, in this instance my guy is smart enough to tell this is a joke." Remember, your in control of every aspect of this character, and if something about the character threatens to make the game not work, you can always adjust it. Even an unintelligent character can be perceptive enough at times with people they know well (say, people they've been traveling with for a while) to tell when they mean something and when they dont. Maybe they don't get it right away and spend a few days plotting on how to dispose of the "evil" party member before slowly realizing they've been had.
Unless you want your character to fight this other character, you don't have to.
PvP is usually a very bad idea unless both players feel like a duel to the death between characters sounds like a fun thing that would enhance their stories. If both players aren't in agreement however, it can feel too much like one *person* picking on another needlessly rather than one *character* fighting another, and that kind of tension can cause games to fall apart. "Because it's what my character would do" is a very bad reason to attack another player's character. You're in control of the character. You can very easily make that not what they would do.
You can just say "oh yeah, in this instance my guy is smart enough to tell this is a joke." Remember, your in control of every aspect of this character, and if something about the character threatens to make the game not work, you can always adjust it.
You're in control of the character. You can very easily make that not what they would do.
This ^^
You are not passively, helplessly watching as your character lives out his life. You are in complete control, you are the one choosing to have the character take a joke the wrong way. You are the one who chooses how he reacts. You can fix this without blowing up the campaign for everyone.
This is why I generally don’t like evil PCs. Too often people use it as a justification for being mean to others, and just say, but that’s what my character would do. I do give you credit, because a good redemption arc can be a lot of fun and interesting. If you keep going that way, that’s great. Maybe use this as a moment in that arc. Realize that attacking others in cold blood is not something good people do. If your character is genuinely trying to be better, this can be a step along that road.
A couple points of clarification. I am not a dick planning on murdering the party member. I know that I control the character, but to just ignore the character's identity and flaws defeats the point of creating the RPG character on the first place. Also, when I say "throw-away" or temporary character, I do not mean he wasn't supposed to be part of the team. I just knew there was a chance that the party and him could have a falling out. I was always prepared to go the distance with him.
What brought me here to ask the question, was to find a good justification for not killing the party member, I would never just try and murder someone's PC or PvP the party, that isn't fun for anybody. At the end of the day, a redemption arc isn't really a redemption arc, if the character can just suddenly ignore his instincts. If he could then, he wouldn't need redemption. The justification I am looking for isn't for me or for the other players, but for my character. What would cause a man, who has spent his entire life killing people with no remorse and has dedicated himself to destroying evil, choose not to kill the evil person standing next to him?
I would simply have a chat with the two other players in question, (the button and the prankster) and set it up so the three of you could put on a little WWE style show for the other players. That way nobody does and the three of you can still roleplay out the scene.
I would simply have a chat with the two other players in question, (the button and the prankster) and set it up so the three of you could put on a little WWE style show for the other players. That way nobody does and the three of you can still roleplay out the scene.
I like that idea. Do a series of Athletics, Acrobatics, and Performance checks. Maybe a few unarmed strikes.
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You could even just do straight combat, but the ending will be predetermined. At the end it is revealed as a joke, you clobber the prankster one, everybody goes out for drinks afterwords and you all come out as friends.
Have it be a learning moment for the character. Maybe the character is shone some evidence that the other character isn't evil-- like they do something selfless, or save someone during a combat at personal risk, or give money to a poor person-- and it causes them to doubt what they were told and try to form an opinion for themselves based on new information.
This would not be "ignoring the character's flaws" either (or at least it doesn't need to be). Stupid characters aren't incapable of learning, they may just find it hard and confusing, but role playing your way out of this situation presents you with a wonderful opportunity for character growth. Maybe your character isn't just the 'big strong dumb guy' after this, and gains the added dimension of self awareness, becoming a big strong dumb guy who is slowly becoming aware of his own limitations, and is realizing that sometimes he needs to look inwards for answers to questions of good and evil, right or wrong, even when it seems like it'd be easier to just listen to what smarter or stronger people are telling him to do. Your guy can still be flawed, I mean if anything, going through that level of growth presents whole new avenues for flaws to manifest down as your character tries to figure themselves out morally-- plenty of mistakes to make and judgements to miss-- all working towards your character's "redemption".
As for what in this instance would prompt that kind of introspection, I would keep two things in mind:
1: think about why your character turned away from evil to begin with. What prompted that? What were their feelings? How did they change?
2: keep an eye out for behaviors or traits in the supposed "evil" party member's character that might share some commonality between them and your character's turn from evil. Find something for your character to make a connection to. Maybe even talk to the other player and ask for their input.
"What would cause a man, who has spent his entire life killing people with no remorse and has dedicated himself to destroying evil, choose not to kill the evil person standing next to him?"
People can change. Yours has once already in a big way. Look for the thing that causes him to do it again.
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This is kind of an out there issue that I am looking for some guidance. I am a playing a CE fighter/barabarian. Well, not true CE, as he had a recent epiphany and realization of how bad being evil is, so he was and is trying to be better, but hasn't quite figured it out yet (i.e. murdered a NPC becuase after being knocked out in a fight he thought the NPC was stealing his stuff, even though the NPC just saved his life and was returning his items). I intended him to be a throw away character to have fun with and once he had a falling out with the mostly good-aligned party or got arrested for randomly killing an npc or something, I would switch him out with a PC that would better fit the campaign. Due to some "signs" from the gods reassuring him he is on the right path and learning a fellow party member's sentient sword slays "evil things," he has decided, in his head at least, to help the sword kill evil. The porblem is when that party member jokingly tells my character that the sword has indicated another member of the party is evil and needs to die. My character isn't the smartest and doesn't realize it is a joke. To make matters worse, my character also hates this particular party member, because of various in game situations and rp. So, my character is like one or two steps away from attacking the guy anyways,. Since everything is telling me that my character would try and kill this party member, between his old CE tendencies and the "divine guidance" he is getting from the sword. I know my dm would allow a bit of infighting, but generalky i think killing a party member might be a bit much. I plan on discussing this with the dm this before the next session, but I was hoping to bring some ideas with me to that conversation to justify not simply murdering this party member in their sleep. Any insight would be helpful. Thanks in advance.
Have you considered discussing it with the player whose character you'd be fighting? Assuming this conflict is actually in-game, that might be the cool way to make sure everyone ends up happy.
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Wouldn't it be easier if you "attempt" to kill the other character, but that character and/or the rest of the party kills your character instead? Thus giving you what you want(ed) and not pulling a dick move on someone who invested in an actual TEAM character instead of the temporary intent of your character which screams dick move in the first place.
I won't damn you completely (pun intended...), but there seems to be some possible red flags you should consider.
Your character "isn't the smartest and doesn't understand it's a joke". You know your character best, but this kind of argument can be quite "provocative" for the player/character you eventually is planning to kill.
Same with the "divine" signs that is "reassuring" him he is on the right path. This can very well be read by the other player(s) as you looking for excuses for killing him, turning a blind eye towards jokes and other things, while interpreting everything according to your "wishes". I don't say you intend it like that, but you should be ready for that the other player might feel that.
Talking to your DM sounds like a good start, and I would have considered strongly to talk to the other player as well. YOU made your character as a "throw-away" character, perhaps you should consider at least doing the attack in such a way that you make "sure" it is you who go out with a bang. You could also consider having a "revelation" the moment you stand there about to kill him, and understand that it is you who are about to do something really evil. Either use it as a turning point towards the good, or the final fall into darkness...
Ludo ergo sum!
You can just say "oh yeah, in this instance my guy is smart enough to tell this is a joke." Remember, your in control of every aspect of this character, and if something about the character threatens to make the game not work, you can always adjust it. Even an unintelligent character can be perceptive enough at times with people they know well (say, people they've been traveling with for a while) to tell when they mean something and when they dont. Maybe they don't get it right away and spend a few days plotting on how to dispose of the "evil" party member before slowly realizing they've been had.
Unless you want your character to fight this other character, you don't have to.
PvP is usually a very bad idea unless both players feel like a duel to the death between characters sounds like a fun thing that would enhance their stories. If both players aren't in agreement however, it can feel too much like one *person* picking on another needlessly rather than one *character* fighting another, and that kind of tension can cause games to fall apart. "Because it's what my character would do" is a very bad reason to attack another player's character. You're in control of the character. You can very easily make that not what they would do.
Talk to the player of the character that made the “joke” so that when things go down they can rush in to stop you.
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This ^^
You are not passively, helplessly watching as your character lives out his life. You are in complete control, you are the one choosing to have the character take a joke the wrong way. You are the one who chooses how he reacts. You can fix this without blowing up the campaign for everyone.
This is why I generally don’t like evil PCs. Too often people use it as a justification for being mean to others, and just say, but that’s what my character would do. I do give you credit, because a good redemption arc can be a lot of fun and interesting. If you keep going that way, that’s great. Maybe use this as a moment in that arc. Realize that attacking others in cold blood is not something good people do. If your character is genuinely trying to be better, this can be a step along that road.
A couple points of clarification. I am not a dick planning on murdering the party member. I know that I control the character, but to just ignore the character's identity and flaws defeats the point of creating the RPG character on the first place. Also, when I say "throw-away" or temporary character, I do not mean he wasn't supposed to be part of the team. I just knew there was a chance that the party and him could have a falling out. I was always prepared to go the distance with him.
What brought me here to ask the question, was to find a good justification for not killing the party member, I would never just try and murder someone's PC or PvP the party, that isn't fun for anybody. At the end of the day, a redemption arc isn't really a redemption arc, if the character can just suddenly ignore his instincts. If he could then, he wouldn't need redemption. The justification I am looking for isn't for me or for the other players, but for my character. What would cause a man, who has spent his entire life killing people with no remorse and has dedicated himself to destroying evil, choose not to kill the evil person standing next to him?
I would simply have a chat with the two other players in question, (the button and the prankster) and set it up so the three of you could put on a little WWE style show for the other players. That way nobody does and the three of you can still roleplay out the scene.
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I like that idea. Do a series of Athletics, Acrobatics, and Performance checks. Maybe a few unarmed strikes.
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You could even just do straight combat, but the ending will be predetermined. At the end it is revealed as a joke, you clobber the prankster one, everybody goes out for drinks afterwords and you all come out as friends.
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Have it be a learning moment for the character. Maybe the character is shone some evidence that the other character isn't evil-- like they do something selfless, or save someone during a combat at personal risk, or give money to a poor person-- and it causes them to doubt what they were told and try to form an opinion for themselves based on new information.
This would not be "ignoring the character's flaws" either (or at least it doesn't need to be). Stupid characters aren't incapable of learning, they may just find it hard and confusing, but role playing your way out of this situation presents you with a wonderful opportunity for character growth. Maybe your character isn't just the 'big strong dumb guy' after this, and gains the added dimension of self awareness, becoming a big strong dumb guy who is slowly becoming aware of his own limitations, and is realizing that sometimes he needs to look inwards for answers to questions of good and evil, right or wrong, even when it seems like it'd be easier to just listen to what smarter or stronger people are telling him to do. Your guy can still be flawed, I mean if anything, going through that level of growth presents whole new avenues for flaws to manifest down as your character tries to figure themselves out morally-- plenty of mistakes to make and judgements to miss-- all working towards your character's "redemption".
As for what in this instance would prompt that kind of introspection, I would keep two things in mind:
1: think about why your character turned away from evil to begin with. What prompted that? What were their feelings? How did they change?
2: keep an eye out for behaviors or traits in the supposed "evil" party member's character that might share some commonality between them and your character's turn from evil. Find something for your character to make a connection to. Maybe even talk to the other player and ask for their input.
"What would cause a man, who has spent his entire life killing people with no remorse and has dedicated himself to destroying evil, choose not to kill the evil person standing next to him?"
People can change. Yours has once already in a big way. Look for the thing that causes him to do it again.