what class do you think would be the best for an party were every party member shares the same class?´would it be the bard, each bard in the party able to specialize in certain skills, certain magical secrets, certain combat roles and certain aspects of the bard spell list (healing, divination, illusion, enchantment etc) while everyone is buffing eachother with bardic inspiration?
would it be wizards, able to share their homework with eachother and thus get all the spells, while the width of the wizard spell list making shure each can prepare wildly diffrent spells and fill wildly diffrent roles while the subclasses also give them pretty diverse abillities?
would it be clerics, with their myriad of domains providing a lot of diffrent play styles within the party, while everyone also has pretty decent healing and some decent armor and health?
would it be warlocks, with all their customization options from pacts to pact boons to eldritch invocations letting the party have nearly zero overlap in what each party member brings to the table (other than eldrich blast) and short rests being equally vital to everyone so no being left behind?
would it be rouges, limited but some specialization, able to stealth problems that cannot be stabbed, seduce problems that cannot be stealthed and stab problems that cannot be seduced, as uncanny doge, evasion and cunning action makes sure nobody dies and reliable talent and expertise making shure nobody fails at what they are good at?
let me know what you think...
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
It depends on whether you want a party that specializes in doing one thing very well, or if you want a balanced party that has a tank, healer, ranged damage dealer, party face, scout, detective/investigator, etc. I think it would be fun to play a party that was very unbalanced, but very powerful at what it does well. I don't know if it would be the "best" party though.
Healer's kits are very powerful (especially with the feat), but it would be hard doing a party with a class that lacks the ability to heal their allies. It would still be doable, but it would be a weak point that would have to be addressed.
I think most of all, it depends on the campaign and what type of abilities are important to have and what type of abilities are not as necessary, as well as what type of enemies you would be facing, whether or not frequent short rests are doable, etc.
I’d have to eliminate wizards and sorcerers only for the fact of how squishy the party would be early on.
Anything with proficiency in less than medium armor and low hp (I’m generalizing with having an AC of 14 or less) probably won’t be the greatest either. You need durable characters to be able to take on bosses (both magic and melee).
Paladin seems good, you’ll have access to magic and ranged spells while being on the tankier side and it’s healing abilities, so does Druid with wild shape and other more spell focused spell classes.
I like Fighter as well but it’s only magic class-related source comes from eldritch knights.
I’d eliminate rogues, monks, ranger, barbarian for the reason they lack good magic and there are most likely better options to go with.
Warlock is a toss-up, I haven’t really investigated the subclasses but perhaps with warforged hexblades as the party’s front liners you could have decent ways to survive?
Clerics would be another nice one with great variation, both melee and magic with healing as well.
Though bard is the jack of all trades, it really just isn’t good enough at being the tank of a front liner in combat. As well as having great control spells but no other real great ways to dish out serious damage in a turn.
I’d have to eliminate wizards and sorcerers only for the fact of how squishy the party would be early on.
Anything with proficiency in less than medium armor and low hp (I’m generalizing with having an AC of 14 or less) probably won’t be the greatest either. You need durable characters to be able to take on bosses (both magic and melee).
Paladin seems good, you’ll have access to magic and ranged spells while being on the tankier side and it’s healing abilities, so does Druid with wild shape and other more spell focused spell classes.
I like Fighter as well but it’s only magic class-related source comes from eldritch knights.
I’d eliminate rogues, monks, ranger, barbarian for the reason they lack good magic and there are most likely better options to go with.
Warlock is a toss-up, I haven’t really investigated the subclasses but perhaps with warforged hexblades as the party’s front liners you could have decent ways to survive?
Clerics would be another nice one with great variation, both melee and magic with healing as well.
Though bard is the jack of all trades, it really just isn’t good enough at being the tank of a front liner in combat. As well as having great control spells but no other real great ways to dish out serious damage in a turn.
Cleric, Paladin, or Druid are probably your best option.
Fighter might also be good.
wouldint an fighter only party be the most poorly balanced pary one might do, an party of only melee combatants and a few fellows with bows just seems like a bad idea, no characters with support or healing spells, no out of combat utillity other than purple dragon knights and samurai being kinda good at persuasion, the champion being kinda good at jumping and the eldrich knight having some spells not designed for murder, if any of y'all dies or becomes petrified they are just boned forever, if you are physically cut of from eachother you cannot communicate, if there was an magical trap in the room or some secrets you would hardly ever know.
Also monks and rouges arguably have better spellcasting options than fighter, multiple monk subclasses grant ways to cast spells with your ki points that replenishes on a short rest, so especially the shadow monk would have a lot of really good utillity spells for only 2 ki early on like silence, darkness, pass without trace for +10 to all stealth checks, at will minor illusion, and since the rouge derives their spells from both enchantment and illusion instead of abjuration and evocation they get a lot of spells that both help you deal damage and support in a group like shadow blade and tashas hideous laughter and hold person, but also a lot of out of combat stuff, same goes for ranger who gets a lot of really good spells and who also can heal and cast pass without trace and also conjure animals, or as it should be known "break action economy"
if you wanna be a tanklock, you should probably focus on celestial, fiend or undying, the hexblade is meant more to be for the murder-locks, also abjuration wizards can actiually tank pretty well and should have about the same effective hit points as an typical fighter, and with the shield spell and some decent dexterity and intelegence scores an bladesinger can reach like armor class 1 million (hyperbole obiously, more akin to 18 with bladesong active at level 2, should still be plenty)
valor and sword bards should between levels 6 - 10 deal about as much damage as any martial class, with the added benefit of spells to buff your damage, whisper bards get an abillity as powerful as sneak attack, paralasys spells, any bard can eventiually pick up any damage spell from any class and lore bards get that much sooner, spells like heroisim (normal bard spell) and aid (via magical secrets) can buff up the durabillity of party members and thus give at least one designated person to take all our damage, since both lore and valor bards can use bardic inspiration to reduce damage from attacks and make them miss completely low hp will be less of an issue, if a person goes down you can just use a bonus action and 1st level spell slot to bring them back into the fight again
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I would agree with the people that say you want a class that can bew set up to tank but also able to cast spells I think I would veer towards Clerics and Druids as they are full casters but paladins also work.
The other class that works that noone has mentioned is artificers.
Battle smiths and Armorers (if allowed) make great tanks and not need dex or str can mak Cha as a tertiary stat to make a reasonable face or wisdom for perception.
Artificers and Alchemists provide DPS and healing
All artificer spell list has a decent number of buff and de-buff spells the think missing is the really powerful spells for the character level you only get with full casters.
Are you talking single subclass? That is a huge difference.
If we are talking best single, then I think it would likely be Celestial Warlock. You all got healing spells, yet you can each specialize into different concepts via spells, invocations, etc.
If we are talking best full class, different subclasses, then I would go Cleric. Their Domains give you enough of the Mage, Skilled, Fighter to come close to the original classes.
what class do you think would be the best for an party were every party member shares the same class?´would it be the bard, each bard in the party able to specialize in certain skills, certain magical secrets, certain combat roles and certain aspects of the bard spell list (healing, divination, illusion, enchantment etc) while everyone is buffing eachother with bardic inspiration?
would it be wizards, able to share their homework with eachother and thus get all the spells, while the width of the wizard spell list making shure each can prepare wildly diffrent spells and fill wildly diffrent roles while the subclasses also give them pretty diverse abillities?
would it be clerics, with their myriad of domains providing a lot of diffrent play styles within the party, while everyone also has pretty decent healing and some decent armor and health?
would it be warlocks, with all their customization options from pacts to pact boons to eldritch invocations letting the party have nearly zero overlap in what each party member brings to the table (other than eldrich blast) and short rests being equally vital to everyone so no being left behind?
would it be rouges, limited but some specialization, able to stealth problems that cannot be stabbed, seduce problems that cannot be stealthed and stab problems that cannot be seduced, as uncanny doge, evasion and cunning action makes sure nobody dies and reliable talent and expertise making shure nobody fails at what they are good at?
a party of pure fights is incredible. They can have magic from eldritch knight. They're durable. They all have healing in the form of "second wind". They get back action surge and second wind on a short rest. So even if they run out of Hit Dice, they can keep adventuring long after others, and they can heal themselves! The fighter subclasses offer a wide array of playstyles.
Clerics are incredibly incredibly slow paced.... takes forever to clear through dungeons and such higher levels.
as to wizards and sorcerers being too squishy at lower levels. Sleep spell is a powerful equalizer.
I would have thought with Clerics it depends on the players and the characters.
If the players spend 2 minutes deciding their moves every turn they will take forever whatever their class.
If it is taking a long time due ot lack of DPR light Clerics some pretty good DPR spells not usually available to Clerics.
At one point...
it was life cleric, light cleric, war, and forge.
forge had a shield guardian too. The light cleric burned through all his slots. It was literally at that point the forge and war and shield guardian wading in. And the light and life doing cantrips from behind. And it was still incredibly slow paced due to DPR.
it was a hell of a lot fun. But the battles took forever at a certain point.
As a 1/3 spell caster the spells are available are pretty low level making them vulnerable to lots of magic attacks. For example hold person is only a 2nd level spell but it is likely to put a low wisdom fighter in a lot of trouble and the rest of the party can only try to end it by breaking concentration (and a smart enemy is likely to make the spell caster very hard to target).
Clerics have the ability got magic them friends out of such situations (lesser restoration in this case) so I would still go with themwith artifiers a close second (who also get lesser restoration and similar spells but a few levels later)
A party of dwarf wizards actually seems OK. As dwarves they'd all be able to wear armor despite their class to counteract some of the squishiness, and if their spells complement each other they could wreck stuff right from level 1. Magic Missile alone would be amazing from the get-go as it doesn't require a roll to hit. If a party of 5 have it, very few low-level monsters could deal with them.
Hobgoblins are pretty baller Wizards too for some of the same reasons.
Are you talking single subclass? That is a huge difference.
If we are talking best single, then I think it would likely be Celestial Warlock. You all got healing spells, yet you can each specialize into different concepts via spells, invocations, etc.
If we are talking best full class, different subclasses, then I would go Cleric. Their Domains give you enough of the Mage, Skilled, Fighter to come close to the original classes.
obiously talking class and not subclass, an single class party is already an bad idea, limit to a single subclass and it would likely get completely nonviable, but if we picked a single subclass i mean how can it not be the most versitile subclasses of all, lore bard and divine soul sorcerer?
what class do you think would be the best for an party were every party member shares the same class?´would it be the bard, each bard in the party able to specialize in certain skills, certain magical secrets, certain combat roles and certain aspects of the bard spell list (healing, divination, illusion, enchantment etc) while everyone is buffing eachother with bardic inspiration?
would it be wizards, able to share their homework with eachother and thus get all the spells, while the width of the wizard spell list making shure each can prepare wildly diffrent spells and fill wildly diffrent roles while the subclasses also give them pretty diverse abillities?
would it be clerics, with their myriad of domains providing a lot of diffrent play styles within the party, while everyone also has pretty decent healing and some decent armor and health?
would it be warlocks, with all their customization options from pacts to pact boons to eldritch invocations letting the party have nearly zero overlap in what each party member brings to the table (other than eldrich blast) and short rests being equally vital to everyone so no being left behind?
would it be rouges, limited but some specialization, able to stealth problems that cannot be stabbed, seduce problems that cannot be stealthed and stab problems that cannot be seduced, as uncanny doge, evasion and cunning action makes sure nobody dies and reliable talent and expertise making shure nobody fails at what they are good at?
let me know what you think...
Druid was the most fun.
paladin was the easiest so might be the “best”
I’ve done this with every class except artificer.
and Druid multiple times because they are so fun.
oh you have actiually done this, tell me how was druid the most fun, i am genuinely curious
I'd think a party of wizards would wreck face, after level 3. 50% diviners + an evoker and a warmage.
i am annoyed at people who pick diviner for any reason other than the great roleplay of playing an seer who predicts the future and guides their companions, the go to feat for divination wizards should be ritual caster (cleric), not lucky
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
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what class do you think would be the best for an party were every party member shares the same class?´would it be the bard, each bard in the party able to specialize in certain skills, certain magical secrets, certain combat roles and certain aspects of the bard spell list (healing, divination, illusion, enchantment etc) while everyone is buffing eachother with bardic inspiration?
would it be wizards, able to share their homework with eachother and thus get all the spells, while the width of the wizard spell list making shure each can prepare wildly diffrent spells and fill wildly diffrent roles while the subclasses also give them pretty diverse abillities?
would it be clerics, with their myriad of domains providing a lot of diffrent play styles within the party, while everyone also has pretty decent healing and some decent armor and health?
would it be warlocks, with all their customization options from pacts to pact boons to eldritch invocations letting the party have nearly zero overlap in what each party member brings to the table (other than eldrich blast) and short rests being equally vital to everyone so no being left behind?
would it be rouges, limited but some specialization, able to stealth problems that cannot be stabbed, seduce problems that cannot be stealthed and stab problems that cannot be seduced, as uncanny doge, evasion and cunning action makes sure nobody dies and reliable talent and expertise making shure nobody fails at what they are good at?
let me know what you think...
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I think a group of rogues down on their luck sounds pretty interesting.
It depends on whether you want a party that specializes in doing one thing very well, or if you want a balanced party that has a tank, healer, ranged damage dealer, party face, scout, detective/investigator, etc. I think it would be fun to play a party that was very unbalanced, but very powerful at what it does well. I don't know if it would be the "best" party though.
Healer's kits are very powerful (especially with the feat), but it would be hard doing a party with a class that lacks the ability to heal their allies. It would still be doable, but it would be a weak point that would have to be addressed.
I think most of all, it depends on the campaign and what type of abilities are important to have and what type of abilities are not as necessary, as well as what type of enemies you would be facing, whether or not frequent short rests are doable, etc.
I’d have to eliminate wizards and sorcerers only for the fact of how squishy the party would be early on.
Anything with proficiency in less than medium armor and low hp (I’m generalizing with having an AC of 14 or less) probably won’t be the greatest either. You need durable characters to be able to take on bosses (both magic and melee).
Paladin seems good, you’ll have access to magic and ranged spells while being on the tankier side and it’s healing abilities, so does Druid with wild shape and other more spell focused spell classes.
I like Fighter as well but it’s only magic class-related source comes from eldritch knights.
I’d eliminate rogues, monks, ranger, barbarian for the reason they lack good magic and there are most likely better options to go with.
Warlock is a toss-up, I haven’t really investigated the subclasses but perhaps with warforged hexblades as the party’s front liners you could have decent ways to survive?
Clerics would be another nice one with great variation, both melee and magic with healing as well.
Though bard is the jack of all trades, it really just isn’t good enough at being the tank of a front liner in combat. As well as having great control spells but no other real great ways to dish out serious damage in a turn.
TL;DR
Cleric, Paladin, or Druid are probably your best option.
Fighter might also be good.
wouldint an fighter only party be the most poorly balanced pary one might do, an party of only melee combatants and a few fellows with bows just seems like a bad idea, no characters with support or healing spells, no out of combat utillity other than purple dragon knights and samurai being kinda good at persuasion, the champion being kinda good at jumping and the eldrich knight having some spells not designed for murder, if any of y'all dies or becomes petrified they are just boned forever, if you are physically cut of from eachother you cannot communicate, if there was an magical trap in the room or some secrets you would hardly ever know.
Also monks and rouges arguably have better spellcasting options than fighter, multiple monk subclasses grant ways to cast spells with your ki points that replenishes on a short rest, so especially the shadow monk would have a lot of really good utillity spells for only 2 ki early on like silence, darkness, pass without trace for +10 to all stealth checks, at will minor illusion, and since the rouge derives their spells from both enchantment and illusion instead of abjuration and evocation they get a lot of spells that both help you deal damage and support in a group like shadow blade and tashas hideous laughter and hold person, but also a lot of out of combat stuff, same goes for ranger who gets a lot of really good spells and who also can heal and cast pass without trace and also conjure animals, or as it should be known "break action economy"
if you wanna be a tanklock, you should probably focus on celestial, fiend or undying, the hexblade is meant more to be for the murder-locks, also abjuration wizards can actiually tank pretty well and should have about the same effective hit points as an typical fighter, and with the shield spell and some decent dexterity and intelegence scores an bladesinger can reach like armor class 1 million (hyperbole obiously, more akin to 18 with bladesong active at level 2, should still be plenty)
valor and sword bards should between levels 6 - 10 deal about as much damage as any martial class, with the added benefit of spells to buff your damage, whisper bards get an abillity as powerful as sneak attack, paralasys spells, any bard can eventiually pick up any damage spell from any class and lore bards get that much sooner, spells like heroisim (normal bard spell) and aid (via magical secrets) can buff up the durabillity of party members and thus give at least one designated person to take all our damage, since both lore and valor bards can use bardic inspiration to reduce damage from attacks and make them miss completely low hp will be less of an issue, if a person goes down you can just use a bonus action and 1st level spell slot to bring them back into the fight again
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I would agree with the people that say you want a class that can bew set up to tank but also able to cast spells I think I would veer towards Clerics and Druids as they are full casters but paladins also work.
The other class that works that noone has mentioned is artificers.
Battle smiths and Armorers (if allowed) make great tanks and not need dex or str can mak Cha as a tertiary stat to make a reasonable face or wisdom for perception.
Artificers and Alchemists provide DPS and healing
All artificer spell list has a decent number of buff and de-buff spells the think missing is the really powerful spells for the character level you only get with full casters.
Clerics. Life, Light, and Arcana for three then round out the rest with whatever else.
It really depends on the DM and how cruel they want to be. An entire party with low Dex? I cast Fireball.
Are you talking single subclass? That is a huge difference.
If we are talking best single, then I think it would likely be Celestial Warlock. You all got healing spells, yet you can each specialize into different concepts via spells, invocations, etc.
If we are talking best full class, different subclasses, then I would go Cleric. Their Domains give you enough of the Mage, Skilled, Fighter to come close to the original classes.
Bards. They can be anything if built correctly. A “Band” of traveling Minstrels would be a heck of a great party.
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Druid was the most fun.
paladin was the easiest so might be the “best”
I’ve done this with every class except artificer.
and Druid multiple times because they are so fun.
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Clerics are incredibly incredibly slow paced.... takes forever to clear through dungeons and such higher levels.
as to wizards and sorcerers being too squishy at lower levels. Sleep spell is a powerful equalizer.
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I would have thought with Clerics it depends on the players and the characters.
If the players spend 2 minutes deciding their moves every turn they will take forever whatever their class.
If it is taking a long time due ot lack of DPR light Clerics some pretty good DPR spells not usually available to Clerics.
a party of pure fights is incredible. They can have magic from eldritch knight. They're durable. They all have healing in the form of "second wind". They get back action surge and second wind on a short rest. So even if they run out of Hit Dice, they can keep adventuring long after others, and they can heal themselves! The fighter subclasses offer a wide array of playstyles.
At one point...
it was life cleric, light cleric, war, and forge.
forge had a shield guardian too. The light cleric burned through all his slots. It was literally at that point the forge and war and shield guardian wading in. And the light and life doing cantrips from behind. And it was still incredibly slow paced due to DPR.
it was a hell of a lot fun. But the battles took forever at a certain point.
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As a 1/3 spell caster the spells are available are pretty low level making them vulnerable to lots of magic attacks. For example hold person is only a 2nd level spell but it is likely to put a low wisdom fighter in a lot of trouble and the rest of the party can only try to end it by breaking concentration (and a smart enemy is likely to make the spell caster very hard to target).
Clerics have the ability got magic them friends out of such situations (lesser restoration in this case) so I would still go with themwith artifiers a close second (who also get lesser restoration and similar spells but a few levels later)
Hobgoblins are pretty baller Wizards too for some of the same reasons.
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I'd think a party of wizards would wreck face, after level 3. 50% diviners + an evoker and a warmage.
obiously talking class and not subclass, an single class party is already an bad idea, limit to a single subclass and it would likely get completely nonviable, but if we picked a single subclass i mean how can it not be the most versitile subclasses of all, lore bard and divine soul sorcerer?
i agree, if i have infinite bards to be built in whatever ways i choose i can overcome any obstacle
oh you have actiually done this, tell me how was druid the most fun, i am genuinely curious
i am annoyed at people who pick diviner for any reason other than the great roleplay of playing an seer who predicts the future and guides their companions, the go to feat for divination wizards should be ritual caster (cleric), not lucky
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes