Well we should expect probably more Infusion options beyond the UA tested ones, if only because of decoupling Artificer from the Eberron setting. I expect the prosthetic limbs to be reprinted, as well as the lungs. But the Armblade might not be reprinted, which would leave a hole in the initial Create Magic Item tables. Some new magic items in Tasha's might find their way to filling that gap.
I sincerely doubt that they would even attempt to make subclass specific infusions. They tried subclass specific Eldritch Invocations in UA and people lost their bananas until WotC changed them prior to Xanathar’s. WotC seems a bit hand shy when it comes to stuff like that.
Yeah, people would probably in general not like the subclass specific infusions. I personally would like that, but I think I'm the minority in that opinion.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
If the last few weeks since Tasha's announcement have taught me anything Third, it's that people in general don't seem to like anything that improves character diversity and customization. Cryin' shame, especially for a class like the artificer that's kinda supposed to embody creativity.
If the last few weeks since Tasha's announcement have taught me anything Third, it's that people in general don't seem to like anything that improves character diversity and customization. Cryin' shame, especially for a class like the artificer that's kinda supposed to embody creativity.
I know, it's a bit depressing. Artificers subclasses are supposed to be unique and special, so it would make sense to have subclass specific infusions. There's no reason why an Alchemist should have a wand of fireballs, but it would make sense for an Artillerist.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
If the last few weeks since Tasha's announcement have taught me anything Third, it's that people in general don't seem to like anything that improves character diversity and customization. Cryin' shame, especially for a class like the artificer that's kinda supposed to embody creativity.
I know, it's a bit depressing. Artificers subclasses are supposed to be unique and special, so it would make sense to have subclass specific infusions. There's no reason why an Alchemist should have a wand of fireballs, but it would make sense for an Artillerist.
I want the alchemist to be able to craft proper potions like gaseous form, and swiftness. Maybe even the giant strength ones. Also, a spell that creates an infusion for one hour, so you can use some of the more situational abilities.
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“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
If the last few weeks since Tasha's announcement have taught me anything Third, it's that people in general don't seem to like anything that improves character diversity and customization. Cryin' shame, especially for a class like the artificer that's kinda supposed to embody creativity.
I know, it's a bit depressing. Artificers subclasses are supposed to be unique and special, so it would make sense to have subclass specific infusions. There's no reason why an Alchemist should have a wand of fireballs, but it would make sense for an Artillerist.
I want the alchemist to be able to craft proper potions like gaseous form, and swiftness. Maybe even the giant strength ones. Also, a spell that creates an infusion for one hour, so you can use some of the more situational abilities.
You could probably make a Tinkerer subclass that's heavily focused around the infusions. They could have more of their infusions active at once and create short-term infusions with their spell-slots. They could even have a boost to the magic tinkering feature that lets them make better versions of the effects it already gives.
I played every version of the Alchemist Artificer as they came out on a character up to 9th level, and though I doubt the printed class will change at all, because Wizards is reluctant to ever fix mistakes its committed to 'because it will confuse the consumer'... ( Base Ranger and every disavowed 'revision' to it. )
The first iteration of the alchemy feature was still my favorite. I like being able to choose the alchemical items I make. Being a character able to throw bombs, or smoke sticks, or provide an alternative source of healing was what drew me to the class in the first place. In the end I worked with my DM to strip out Experimental Elixir and replace it back with the Alchemists Satchel in order to keepthe playstyle closer to what I initiallysigned up for. Most fun I've ever had with a 5e character.
But anyway, since I don't think that Alchemist will ever change. I hope Tasha's gives us more infusions and adds more variety to the spell list.
Edit: I'm not against subclass specific infusions. I just think the infusion pool of non replicated magic item is too shallow for those to be introduced yet.
I personally would have liked Sub-class specific infusions and eldritch invocations, and find it a bit funny that people had a problem with this but not with sub-classes specific spell list additions which aren't that much different in conception.
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"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
I wasn't there for pact-specific infusions, so I don't know what the specific complaints were. I can imagine, though. Were I to hazard a guess, it would be that people don't like the idea of "sacrificing" base class features to expand on subclass options. Any invocation or such specific to a given pact - and any infusion specific to a given artificer specialty - would be something the average 5e player would demand to know why they don't just get as part of their subclass to start with. Given how enormously choice-averse the average 5e player seems to be, I could see issues where such players felt like subclass-specific choices of invocation/infusion were 'mandatory' and upset at having options from the main class stolen from them. It's absolute nonsense, of course, but I'd be willing to bet a dollar that such concerns were the main thrust of 'I DON' WANNA" reactions to subclass-specific options within both the warlock and the artificer.
I wasn't there for pact-specific infusions, so I don't know what the specific complaints were. I can imagine, though. Were I to hazard a guess, it would be that people don't like the idea of "sacrificing" base class features to expand on subclass options. Any invocation or such specific to a given pact - and any infusion specific to a given artificer specialty - would be something the average 5e player would demand to know why they don't just get as part of their subclass to start with. Given how enormously choice-averse the average 5e player seems to be, I could see issues where such players felt like subclass-specific choices of invocation/infusion were 'mandatory' and upset at having options from the main class stolen from them. It's absolute nonsense, of course, but I'd be willing to bet a dollar that such concerns were the main thrust of 'I DON' WANNA" reactions to subclass-specific options within both the warlock and the artificer.
Nah, people just wanted to pick whatever Invocations they wanted without having to pick a specific patron to do it.
Kinda like how people want to put their Ability Bonuses wherever they want without having to pick a specific Race.
Idk if this would be to overpowered but I’d like the homunculus servant to be able to use any spell through it instead of just Touch spells. the HS seems kinda underwhelming especially when costing a infusion to use.
know that there is a leak out there so it is pointless in still speculating but i am just going to throw this out there:
-ability to put your infusions on items that are already common magic items, so that you can make stuff like a +1 armblade or an cast-off armor of fire resistance, it would make certain infusions that are the same as already existing magic items much more useful in campaigns where you can already purchase whatever magic items you want and have more gold than you will ever need, or in campaigns already bloated with that type of item, but it probably would not completely break the entire game ether since common magic items are designed to be mostly power-neutral
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
The only justifcation, and I mean ONLY justification for Experimental Elixir being random I've seen. EVER. On these forums or anywhere else has been poor unsatisfying lip service to the vague sciencey sounding adjective "Experimental" despite the fact that a 1d6 dice roll for one of 6 well defined beneficial outcomes has never sounded like an experiment to me.
Experiments involve meticulous notetaking. They involve REPEATABLE RESULTS. They involve understanding what you put into a system and analyzing what came out of it to increase your understanding of interactions (in this case alchemical) involved yet no matter how much I might try and retry the same control parameters the outcome will always be a 1 in 6 dice roll unless I use a spell slot.
These aren't experiments. They are ACCIDENTS. Accidents somehow mysteriously (almost suspiciously) limited to 1 in 6 beneficial outcomes. 1 in 6 outcomes that from a scientific aspect seem to be maddeningly limited. They are accidents that the Alchemist also for some reason doesn't really learn from outside of how to force them to somehow reliably cause temporary HP overnight one day.
If there were only 6 kinds of potions that existed in the world of D&D instead of the 44 just presented in the DMG alone (22 if we limit ourselves to just common and uncommon for lip service to balance) maybe that might make sense. But no matter what new set of ingredients you choose to use Experimental Elixirs will always produce the same set of 6 outcomes.
Imagine if instead there were a large massive table similar in size (though not identical) to the wild magic surge table. This would include both beneficial results and detrimental. And every time you rolled an experiment you got to mark down and keep a small set of up to 6 guaranteed outcomes you could brew in the morning. THAT would be experimentation with repeatable results that you could change with future experimentation. It would be actual experimental elixirs instead of "experimental" elixirs.
I don't hate the randomness of experimental elixir because I hate rolling dice (I don't).
I hate the randomness in this implementation is because it's shallow and stupid as hell.
there are not a whole lot of class features that depend on in-game time to be usable or to reach full potential like the thing you suggest would, and it would be quite unqwieldly to handle during downtime (and quite unfair for campaigns that take place during short periods of time and one-shots), and as for the whole randomness shit i think it is more a matter of the player character each usage finding a new, possibly more or less efficient way to get the same results, and the dice just represents what area you were inspirered to look into that morning, one resillience potion might make you covered in scales, give your skin a metal sheen or barklike texture, or it might just make it easier to evade blows or make it more easy to move in armor, an flight potion might work by unlocking some weird form of telekiniesis into the target's mind or by letting them grow wings or whatever, etc etc, and each usage of your spell slots is just you falling back on one of your previous recepies to do the same thing as before
(i will probably regret re-opening this can of worms again, but eh)
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Imagine if instead there were a large massive table similar in size (though not identical) to the wild magic surge table. This would include both beneficial results and detrimental. And every time you rolled an experiment you got to mark down and keep a small set of up to 6 guaranteed outcomes you could brew in the morning. THAT would be experimentation with repeatable results that you could change with future experimentation. It would be actual experimental elixirs instead of "experimental" elixirs.
there are not a whole lot of class features that depend on in-game time to be usable or to reach full potential like the thing you suggest would, and it would be quite unqwieldly to handle during downtime (and quite unfair for campaigns that take place during short periods of time and one-shots), and as for the whole randomness shit i think it is more a matter of the player character each usage finding a new, possibly more or less efficient way to get the same results, and the dice just represents what area you were inspirered to look into that morning, one resillience potion might make you covered in scales, give your skin a metal sheen or barklike texture, or it might just make it easier to evade blows or make it more easy to move in armor, an flight potion might work by unlocking some weird form of telekiniesis into the target's mind or by letting them grow wings or whatever, etc etc, and each usage of your spell slots is just you falling back on one of your previous recepies to do the same thing as before
(i will probably regret re-opening this can of worms again, but eh)
Here's my proposed system hopefully rephrased to be more understandable.
- You have a list of 6 known options for your Experimental Elixir. - For your free uses of the elixir you can just choose which option you want. - After a long rest you can choose to experiment by rolling on a larger table to produce an elixir you don't currently know how to make. - After producing that elixir you can choose whether or not to replace one of your known options with that new elixir.
See? That's all I want.
Mechanically speaking its just a thing that can happen "after a long rest" it doesn't require any specific in game time. The real world time is however long it takes to roll a die and look up an entry in a table. If players/DM want to apply specific in game time to it I'd keep it on par with the time necessary to prepare first level spells.
In terms of reaching "full potential" it's no worse than a wizard spending time and gold to scribe found spells into a spellbook aside from your number of elixirs known not increasing. Though in this instance there's no gold or scribing requirement and no need to find a wizard's spellbook or loose scrolls from which to copy spells. Just a die roll to represent your own ingenuity.
And I'm not personally opposed to having that number of elixirs known increase over the course of an adventure. Experimental Elixirs could be similar to infusions but specifically applying to consumable items.
Here's my proposed system hopefully rephrased to be more understandable.
- You have a list of 6 known options for your Experimental Elixir. - For your free uses of the elixir you can just choose which option you want. - After a long rest you can choose to experiment by rolling on a larger table to produce an elixir you don't currently know how to make. - After producing that elixir you can choose whether or not to replace one of your known options with that new elixir.
See? That's all I want.
Mechanically speaking its just a thing that can happen "after a long rest" it doesn't require any specific in game time. The real world time is however long it takes to roll a die and look up an entry in a table. If players/DM want to apply specific in game time to it I'd keep it on par with the time necessary to prepare first level spells.
In terms of reaching "full potential" it's no worse than a wizard spending time and gold to scribe found spells into a spellbook aside from your number of elixirs known not increasing. Though in this instance there's no gold or scribing requirement and no need to find a wizard's spellbook or loose scrolls from which to copy spells. Just a die roll to represent your own ingenuity.
And I'm not personally opposed to having that number of elixirs known increase over the course of an adventure. Experimental Elixirs could be similar to infusions but specifically applying to consumable items.
oh ok so you do not permanently learn each elixir but instead have a pool of 6 known elixirs, with each experimental one letting you possibly learn a new one in place of an old one, that sounds like a neat mechanic and makes sense i guess
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i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
Well we should expect probably more Infusion options beyond the UA tested ones, if only because of decoupling Artificer from the Eberron setting. I expect the prosthetic limbs to be reprinted, as well as the lungs. But the Armblade might not be reprinted, which would leave a hole in the initial Create Magic Item tables. Some new magic items in Tasha's might find their way to filling that gap.
Yeah, people would probably in general not like the subclass specific infusions. I personally would like that, but I think I'm the minority in that opinion.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
If the last few weeks since Tasha's announcement have taught me anything Third, it's that people in general don't seem to like anything that improves character diversity and customization. Cryin' shame, especially for a class like the artificer that's kinda supposed to embody creativity.
Please do not contact or message me.
I know, it's a bit depressing. Artificers subclasses are supposed to be unique and special, so it would make sense to have subclass specific infusions. There's no reason why an Alchemist should have a wand of fireballs, but it would make sense for an Artillerist.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
I want the alchemist to be able to craft proper potions like gaseous form, and swiftness. Maybe even the giant strength ones. Also, a spell that creates an infusion for one hour, so you can use some of the more situational abilities.
“I will take responsibility for what I have done. [...] If must fall, I will rise each time a better man.” ― Brandon Sanderson, Oathbringer.
You could probably make a Tinkerer subclass that's heavily focused around the infusions. They could have more of their infusions active at once and create short-term infusions with their spell-slots. They could even have a boost to the magic tinkering feature that lets them make better versions of the effects it already gives.
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I played every version of the Alchemist Artificer as they came out on a character up to 9th level, and though I doubt the printed class will change at all, because Wizards is reluctant to ever fix mistakes its committed to 'because it will confuse the consumer'... ( Base Ranger and every disavowed 'revision' to it. )
The first iteration of the alchemy feature was still my favorite. I like being able to choose the alchemical items I make. Being a character able to throw bombs, or smoke sticks, or provide an alternative source of healing was what drew me to the class in the first place. In the end I worked with my DM to strip out Experimental Elixir and replace it back with the Alchemists Satchel in order to keepthe playstyle closer to what I initiallysigned up for. Most fun I've ever had with a 5e character.
But anyway, since I don't think that Alchemist will ever change. I hope Tasha's gives us more infusions and adds more variety to the spell list.
Edit: I'm not against subclass specific infusions. I just think the infusion pool of non replicated magic item is too shallow for those to be introduced yet.
I personally would have liked Sub-class specific infusions and eldritch invocations, and find it a bit funny that people had a problem with this but not with sub-classes specific spell list additions which aren't that much different in conception.
"Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup."
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I wasn't there for pact-specific infusions, so I don't know what the specific complaints were. I can imagine, though. Were I to hazard a guess, it would be that people don't like the idea of "sacrificing" base class features to expand on subclass options. Any invocation or such specific to a given pact - and any infusion specific to a given artificer specialty - would be something the average 5e player would demand to know why they don't just get as part of their subclass to start with. Given how enormously choice-averse the average 5e player seems to be, I could see issues where such players felt like subclass-specific choices of invocation/infusion were 'mandatory' and upset at having options from the main class stolen from them. It's absolute nonsense, of course, but I'd be willing to bet a dollar that such concerns were the main thrust of 'I DON' WANNA" reactions to subclass-specific options within both the warlock and the artificer.
Please do not contact or message me.
Nah, people just wanted to pick whatever Invocations they wanted without having to pick a specific patron to do it.
Kinda like how people want to put their Ability Bonuses wherever they want without having to pick a specific Race.
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Honestly if they add more General options and some specific ones for Infusions at the same time, Im fine with that.
Though that being said, my alchemist dealt heavily in fire/bombs so I would have welcomed a wand of fireballs funnily enough.
Idk if this would be to overpowered but I’d like the homunculus servant to be able to use any spell through it instead of just Touch spells. the HS seems kinda underwhelming especially when costing a infusion to use.
know that there is a leak out there so it is pointless in still speculating but i am just going to throw this out there:
-ability to put your infusions on items that are already common magic items, so that you can make stuff like a +1 armblade or an cast-off armor of fire resistance, it would make certain infusions that are the same as already existing magic items much more useful in campaigns where you can already purchase whatever magic items you want and have more gold than you will ever need, or in campaigns already bloated with that type of item, but it probably would not completely break the entire game ether since common magic items are designed to be mostly power-neutral
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
there are not a whole lot of class features that depend on in-game time to be usable or to reach full potential like the thing you suggest would, and it would be quite unqwieldly to handle during downtime (and quite unfair for campaigns that take place during short periods of time and one-shots), and as for the whole randomness shit i think it is more a matter of the player character each usage finding a new, possibly more or less efficient way to get the same results, and the dice just represents what area you were inspirered to look into that morning, one resillience potion might make you covered in scales, give your skin a metal sheen or barklike texture, or it might just make it easier to evade blows or make it more easy to move in armor, an flight potion might work by unlocking some weird form of telekiniesis into the target's mind or by letting them grow wings or whatever, etc etc, and each usage of your spell slots is just you falling back on one of your previous recepies to do the same thing as before
(i will probably regret re-opening this can of worms again, but eh)
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
I reworded that idea in a later post:
Mechanically speaking its just a thing that can happen "after a long rest" it doesn't require any specific in game time. The real world time is however long it takes to roll a die and look up an entry in a table. If players/DM want to apply specific in game time to it I'd keep it on par with the time necessary to prepare first level spells.
In terms of reaching "full potential" it's no worse than a wizard spending time and gold to scribe found spells into a spellbook aside from your number of elixirs known not increasing. Though in this instance there's no gold or scribing requirement and no need to find a wizard's spellbook or loose scrolls from which to copy spells. Just a die roll to represent your own ingenuity.
And I'm not personally opposed to having that number of elixirs known increase over the course of an adventure. Experimental Elixirs could be similar to infusions but specifically applying to consumable items.
oh ok so you do not permanently learn each elixir but instead have a pool of 6 known elixirs, with each experimental one letting you possibly learn a new one in place of an old one, that sounds like a neat mechanic and makes sense i guess
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes
why is everyone fighting about the 2nd best class yet?#Druids are better
Ain’t nuttiness Berta than sum good ole jambalaya
because something being good does not mean it is perfect, and also since quality is subjective
i am soup, with too many ideas (all of them very spicy) who has made sufficient homebrew material and character to last an thousand human lifetimes